First and foremost, I don’t care about Bonnie dying. That’s not the part that pisses me off and has me in a rage. It’s the stuff that came before. The stuff to do with Elena, of course.
So Bonnie didn’t get to say goodbye to Jeremy. Still. Even though the veil was dropped because of her. Elena gets the pay off and is the only one who gets it. Elena got to run the emotional gamut up to and including wanting Jeremy to STAY dead and they still reach back and give her a goodbye.
And then it got better. Bonnie wants to bring Jeremy back, and she wants to bring him back for Elena, because Elena needs him, and this was her plan all along.
THIS is what I meant when I said I don’t trust the show with regards to what they’re doing with Beremy. They were acknowledging Bonnie’s feelings for Jeremy (and Jeremy’s feelings for Bonnie) only up to a point. This is why the most anyone ever said since he died was that she “cares” about him. They used Beremy, acknowledged them just enough to keep the plot moving but in the end it was.all.handed.to.Elena. After saying “I feel this way about you” and saying “I’m glad we’re here together” and saying “Doesn’t bother me” and saying “Fuck the cure, heal Bonnie first” Jeremy 1) goes to Elena first when she wasn’t in any trouble all that time before but (most egregious) 2) SEES BONNIE AND ALL HE GIVES HER IS A HUG!
Fuck this ENTIRE shit. Bonnie’s laughing and teary at prom and asking “is this real” and stumbling to go dance with Jeremy, AND WHEN SHE SEES HIM AND SAYS SHE’S GOING TO BRING HIM BACK THE REASON THAT COMES OUT OF HER SLAVING MOUTH IS “Elena needs him” AND SHE HAS THE NERVE TO SAY THIS WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG!
Caroline Dries wrote this episode. She wrote the crap in 4.19. Why the HELL, as the person who wrote both episodes, does she have ZERO damn continuity in regards to Bonnie’s feelings?
I’ll say it right now, I don’t think I’ve ever said it on the podcast, but there are moments when I come SO close to hating the hell out of Bonnie. And my hatred always comes when Bonnie’s being extra white-struck as fuck, sacrificing every damn thing for Elena, including her body, while expecting JACK SHIT IN RETURN BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELENA DOES AND DOESN’T DO TO HER IS BEAUTIFUL AND EVERYTHING SHE DOES AND DOESN’T TO HER IS FINE. She knows to expect shit in her romantic relationships (loyalty), she’ll be pissed at her parents, but she has no idea how to have a fucking friendship.
She can stay dead, because she wasn’t living and she damn sure wasn’t living for herself.
What the fuck would be her regret about staying dead? Seriously. Let’s all think about Bonnie the way she is on the show and not the way we wish her ass was. WHAT would be her regret about staying dead? That she didn’t get to see Elena graduate? That she didn’t get to do more for Elena? THAT SHE WASN’T ABLE TO GIVE ELENA ONE LAST THING AND BRING JEREMY BACK TO LIFE?!
How do I feel about Bonnie dying? The same way I felt when she ended up sending Sheila to a hell dimension because she has no fucking idea how to dial it back when it comes to Elena: THAT’S WHAT SHE GETS! I don’t care.
That’s how I feel.
Someone on Tumblr thinks Bonnie at graduation is actually her as a ghost, and she’s not going to tell anyone she’s dead. I would love nothing more than to see how deeply Bonnie’s slave mentality runs where she’s actually fucking DEAD and she’s STILL not demanding for anyone to notice her. That’s exactly what I want to see next episode, and I truly want to see it happen.
I’m offended as hell as a Black woman watching this show that my representation, my self-insert (because everyone would like a self-insert who already looks like them), my wish-fulfillment is this Black idiot who doesn’t know how to stop sacrificing herself for her White friend. I DON’T EVEN HAVE WHITE AMERICAN FRIENDS IRL, PRODUCERS AND WRITERS!
White fans, on this show alone, get varying self-inserts. What do I get? Bonnie Bennett. The only fucking idiot who has NO life of her own and would, and has, give all for Elena, including her fucking life, while that damn sentiment isn’t returned in the slightest.
It makes so much sense that her ass died underground in a rocky, dusty cave, ALONE, while Elena’s above ground sharing a nice moment with her brother, one of the people she cared about more than she cared about Bonnie (Stefan, Damon, and Alaric are ahead of Bonnie on that list).
I hate her and her “strong” ass.
Bonnie has no desires of her own outside of giving to Elena. There’s nothing she wants for herself. She claims all three of her power sources and it’s to give Elena something.
Elena’s hurt matters to Bonnie more than her own. Bonnie can’t bear to see Elena in pain, but she’s a Black woman so she doesn’t mind holding in her own suffering WHILE taking on Elena’s.
Just Another Judicious Podcast 
I don’t know if I’m going to make a podcast for this episode. This might be the review right here. The episode started out good and ended badly. I’m so pissed and tired.
I’ve changed the title of this post to a review. I can’t record and edit a podcast about this episode. I can’t. Too much time to waste on crap.
I don’t get how Bonnie has the spirits. I thought having the spirits meant the spirits then had the power to STOP her from doing whatever she wanted. That’s not the case anymore? That was the case in 3.21-4.01, but suddenly we’re back to pre 3.21 status where the spirits aren’t meddlers? Oh.
Bonnie ignored Sheila’s warning (like she did in 4.01 and every damn time before) because it’s imperative that she DO for Elena.
So she channeled all that power and killed herself.
She’s the darkness for no other reason than because Elena misses her brother, even though she and Elena haven’t said jack shit to each other since Jeremy died.
Screw this.
Elena tried to kill her twice to keep her from doing the very thing she died trying to do.
Yet here she was grinning about being the darkness because she was going to perform miracle number 752 for Elena.
This is just incredibly beautiful to me. JP knows her magical negros, I’ll give her that.
Greta Martin was the best witch there ever was on this show.
Elena tried to talk to her like she was Bonnie Bennett. And then Elena tired to attack her with a rock and Greta made her sit all the way down.
ps … what is this Darkness and how is it different than ~expression~?
She was talking about Dark magic. She was like, “I have every magic! I have the spirits, I have Expression,” and then the black veins appeared on her arm, signifying dark magic, and she said, “I am the darkness.”
so this magic is just words then … because she said three different words: spirits, expression, darkness.
-__________-
that’s what I got.
What do you mean? After she said that, she started doing the spell. She started to chant.
I don’t know what these magicks are. I feel like it just got pulled out of the ass, because they’re just words. Bonnie’s only done expression this season … (and I haven’t seen it because I haven’t seen most of the season). She’d done ~dark magick~ what twice?
I have all the magicks just sounds like made up poopoo, because I haven’t seen enough of the other two magics for it to make sense to me. And what about her own magick? I guess that never was enough. she always needed a boost (because she was doing too much and not progressing naturally.)
dun
And what about her own magick?
That’s what they’re calling “spirit magic” now. That’s what she meant when she said, “I have the spirits.” It’s ridiculous and makes no sense.
Why did Bonnie have to channel all three magics? Why was that required? Why didn’t she just sacrifice someone to bring Jeremy back?
They literally took away Bonnie’s fear of dying by Expression and doing too much with Expression For Elena. In episode 19 she was running away after she exuded her power, and she only did what she did to Silas and Elena because she was angry.
Here she not only uses Expression, but adds Dark Magic (which she was warned about by Sheila, Abby, AND the other spirits) plus her regular magic, and she freaking kills herself in the process.
Bonnie had a fear, and it was one she’d articulated. Like, I didn’t imagine it, she said it. Yet here it completely disappears from her brain, because doing for Elena is more important than her damn survival.
… if this was good writing … (lol) Bonnie would have died and taken Sheila’s place in that torture dimension or whatever. But I guess being stuck in MF with people who give no fucks about you is another form of hell. I just don’t want to watch it because it’s not interesting.
If Bonnie comes back to life, she better stop acting like she’s the first Bennett witch to walk the earth and Abby and Sheila are just talking out of their asses when they tell her not to mess with shit.
“You have no idea what I can handle.” Not Dark Magic, Expression, and spirit magic combined. You definitely couldn’t handle that. You just died before even completing your spell.
When Sheila and Abby talk to her about what not to practice and why, she acts like she’s the only one who practices magic and they have no fucking idea about the magical world.
Abby and Sheila sure got to live longer than you, didn’t they, Bonnie. Didn’t they? They didn’t reach their ages by just doing whatever the fuck and tapping into every magical source at their disposal.
“I am the darkness.” No honey you’re dead and it’s not even because you were too arrogant about your abilities. You weren’t being driven by confidence in your magic, you were being driven by devotion to Elena.
Driven by Julie Plec’s pen so to speak … being kinda hard on Bonnie. it’s really not her fault I mean look who’s writing her. If Kat Graham got to play the naturally progressed character she wanted to play I don’t think this would have happened this way. But whatev’, this show, you know it’s bad.
Also Bonnie was more suspicious of the Martins than she was of Esther. That’s the writing lemme tell ya. AND her simple ass when along with the ‘lets get the Martins on our team now that bonnie doesn’t have any more magic’ plan. like lol stop! can I at least get an side eye?
it’s really not her fault I mean look who’s writing her.
Now you know you’d never say that about the Salvatores, lol.
Ugh. Bonnie wasn’t as suspicious of Shane or Esther the way she was of the Martins. And Esther had knocked her out!!!
Now you know you’d never say that about the Salvatores, lol.
The Salavtore’s are white slave owners … that is their canon, that is what they are. I’m not surprised by them flipping a coin over the lives of WoC. I’m appalled by the show for airing that shit cause someone thought it was cute enough to do so.
JP can write white ppl to a T PoC not so much. That’s why we die real quick on the show. She probably think all we do is talk about white ppl …
Bonnie wasn’t as suspicious of Shane or Esther the way she was of the Martins. And Esther had knocked her out!!
Well, Alta, white is right.
When Bonnie walked away from a teary-eyed Elena in season 1, she went to her house an hour later and apologized and said, “I don’t want this to be us.”
Bonnie almost dies because of Elena three times, and not only does Elena completely deny the third event, but she walks up to Bonnie and actually opens her jaw and goes, “I don’t know what to say.” Which of course leaves it up to Bonnie to fill in the gap and assign Elena a motivation/reason/something to say. And of course Bonnie delivers. Of course.
When Bonnie walked away from a teary-eyed Elena in season 1, she went to her house an hour later and apologized and said, “I don’t want this to be us.”
This made me start thinking about the pattern in Bonnie’s interaction with Elena. And thinking back, is it just me or is it Bonnie supporting Elena about Elena’s feelings, a lot more than the reverse? Like when Bonnie finds Elena in early S2 to ask “where we stand”, or at the vampire frat party when she sticks up for Elena to Damon. Like even in season one, Bonnie walked away from Elena temporarily, but she came back. She came back all on her own even though nothing had changed on Elena’s end. That’s different…well I think it’s different, from her “coming back” to Caroline in S2 after Caroline tried and kept trying with Bonnie.
I can’t think of a single time Bonnie’s stuck it out with resisting Elena until Elena worked for it to get Bonnie back…
I also think Bonnie has always gone the distance with backing up Elena not just with her magic, but with helping Elena emotionally. I see a difference between how Bonnie is with Elena in this regard, and how she is with everyone else. Like, Bonnie’s often willing to go far to help her friends using magic (though Elena’s often included in whoever she’s helping, I suppose), but the emotional support, especially emotional support where it’s Bonnie who goes LOOKING for Elena on her own initiative, all on her own, is something that really stands out to me looking back over the show as something Bonnie is very dedicated to concerning Elena, above and beyond most anyone else in her life IMO.
That pattern’s been obvious to me for so long that I don’t remember when I first realized it. I know it annoyed me immediately when Bonnie went to Elena in season 1. I just knew nothing would come from it. Lo and behold we had season 3 where Bonnie’s mother died for Elena, yet it was Bonnie reassuring Elena that everything was okay while Elena cried. REALLY? And then again in season 4, Elena almost kills Bonnie and Elena never once seeks Bonnie out to ask for forgiveness. She apologizes to the Salvatores and only runs into Bonnie by accident! And that’s when she mumbles something, only for Bonnie to tell her that everything’s kosher.
So yeah, either Bonnie’s going to Elena or she’s letting Elena know that she has nothing to be sorry for. Elena never goes to find Bonnie.
I find it interesting because yeah I’d noticed that Bonnie was always there for Elena, but this is the first time I noticed how different she is with Elena vs. everyone else when it comes to emotional backup. I think it’s something Bonnie only does for Elena? At least, the way she does it with Elena is different from how she is with everyone else. I always thought of Bonnie as being withdrawn and more guarded with emotional support, because she had to rely so much on herself growing up with her mom being gone and her dad being distant, and I still think she is this way, with the other people in her life, but there’s a marked difference with Elena and always has been, maybe.
I always thought of Bonnie as being withdrawn and more guarded with emotional support, because she had to rely so much on herself growing up with her mom being gone and her dad being distant,
I don’t think Bonnie grew up with her dad being distant. They seemed to be fine before Sheila died. I think Bonnie became more withdrawn after she lost that support in Sheila and her friends started sucking. We’ve never seen her be as upbeat as she was in the car with Elena in the first episode.
after she lost that support in Sheila and her friends started sucking.
Ehhh, tbh apart from the finale this season I don’t feel angry about Bonnie’s friendships except with Elena. Maybe that will change next season, IDK…
Damon said that they still have a Silas problem: if he gets a drop of blood, he’ll be reanimated.
But Bonnie turned him into STONE. She didn’t desiccate him. She turned him into an inanimate thing.
Statues can’t swallow.
But Bonnie turned him into STONE. She didn’t desiccate him. She turned him into an inanimate thing.
Maybe he can absorb the blood through pores of the stone.
And are we basically going to see a repeat of last year, with the Salvatores or Dalaric going off to dumb Silas body in the ocean but then along the way they get a phone call and have to return to MF?
Also wasn´t it kinda weird that Damon was able to hold Silas!Alaric back in that last scene? I know they screw up all the mythology with vampires being stronger when they are older but this was ridiculous, looked like he didn´t even really fight before Bonnie came in and then it was too late anyways.
But he’s a statue. Statues don’t have pores. It reminds me of Charmed where the sisters were faced with a demon who’d become immortal and invincible by drinking from a magical spring. So what did they do? They turned him into something else that was immortal: a tree.
I don’t know why Bonnie’s solution can’t be a permanent fix.
I’m thinking about it now and the Charmed Ones’ solution (realizing that killing the enemy isn’t the only form of defeat) is great because they did this after 5 years of being witches (1 year for Paige but she was very dedicated to the craft).
The only problem Bonnie’s solution should face, and same for the Halliwells, is if a couple of witches find out, come along, and reverse the spell.
But he’s a statue. Statues don’t have pores.
Okay. Lol I just thought he looked really por-y in one of these shots.
But when she turned him into stone he kept the clothes of Alaric, right? Shouldn´t his illusion of Alaric´s clothes go away aswell just like Alarics face disappeared.
I don’t know why Bonnie’s solution can’t be a permanent fix.
Yeah especially because they never really kill the enemies anyways.
Those shots were so dark, I just assumed he looked like a regular statue.
Shouldn´t his illusion of Alaric´s clothes go away aswell just like Alarics face disappeared.
Yep. *Sigh.*
But he’s a statue. Statues don’t have pores.
Didn’t the old ones or whatever they were called in Queen of the Damned (I read it years ago in German so I don’t know what they’re called) also absorb blood through their skin when they were petrified to reanimate? Julie could have something like that in mind. It’s not like she never steals from other vampire canons ever. 😉
I only watched the movie, but ugh. I just want at least one of their solutions to stick. Their plan to defeat a bad guy hasn’t been permanent since the tomb vampires and would you look at that? It was a plan that excluded most of the group.
Didn’t Julie say he’ll be around next season? Not that it’s necessarily believable. I think she’s started to just out and out lie with her “spoilers.”
I think she did, but it’s so unnecessary.
I forgot to comment on Damon/Silas. Yes, it was weird. Silas was choking. Why? Silas faltered when he asked Damon his question. Why? Damon said Silas’ mind games didn’t work on him anymore. Why not? When Bonnie said that, she turned out to be wrong. But Damon is right? Even though he didn’t DO anything to stop Silas’ mind games from working?
Badass Damon right here.
Damon said Silas’ mind games didn’t work on him anymore.
That´s a lie because his mind tricks worked on Damon when he appeared to him as Stefan.
Yeah, but he said “anymore.” Why not anymore? Smh.
I just checked the transcript for the episode and he didn´t say anymore, he only said:
Your mind games don’t work on me, Silas.
Someone please tell me why the blow to Bonnie’s plan ended up being Qetsiyah not showing up? She looked surprised and disappointed when Silas said Qetsiyah wouldn’t show up.
It’s like she wasn’t paying attention when Shane said Qetsiyah didn’t want to kill Silas herself because she wanted the satisfaction of him coming to her willingly.
She got thwarted by a fact that she already knew.
I’m not even positive why she didn’t call for Qetsiyah after she caught her breath. She just resorted to, “I’m not strong enough; I can’t do it.”
Someone on Tumblr thinks Bonnie at graduation is actually her as a ghost, and she’s not going to tell anyone she’s dead. I would love nothing more than to see how deeply Bonnie’s slave mentality runs where she’s actually fucking DEAD and she’s STILL not demanding for anyone to notice her. That’s exactly what I want to see next episode, and I truly want to see it happen.
I’ve been picturing them needing her to be their deus ex machina in the next and demanding she do something, and ghost!Bonnie is all, “Um… sorry, no can do.” Do they even know how to write the characters solving problems without Bonnie’s magic.
Do they even know how to write the characters solving problems without Bonnie’s magic.
Nope. That’s exactly why JP’s gonna bring her back to life.
Caroline Dries wrote this episode. She wrote the crap in 4.19. Why the HELL, as the person who wrote both episodes, does she have ZERO damn continuity in regards to Bonnie’s feelings?
Nope apparently not combined with that last scene with Elena, she said only 24 hours ago that she is not ready to forgive and forget but here she stops her from talking and Elena didn´t even look like she planned an apology she was just like searching for words but then with Damon she was able to say sorry. This show is so awful.
I don´t have much to add to your posts about Bonnie´s death but I thought it was weird Grams just disappeared before Bonnie died. Wouldn´t she have been with her in the last seconds? Where could she have been going off to?
Also I´m confused about Alaric. I hate this guy and I know JP loves him and the actor and would do anything to bring him back so it shouldn´t be surprising that something doesn´t make sense.
Alaric only went to the other side because Esther turned him into the “ultimate hunter” and his human self basically died when he turned so why is his human self now back when he returns from the other side? All the other people that were on the other side and returned came back as the people they died. According to the promos the hunters are still trying to fullfill their destiny with killing Silas. So shouldn´t Alaric be back to wanting to kill all the Originals and vampires in this world? He shouldn´t care about drinking with Damon and about him “getting the girl” (which was a disgusting scene btw) he should care to search for the stake and kill the Originals that are left.
It’s so awful! So all she needed was 24 hours to be ready to forgive and forget?
Yep, Elena had no problem finding the words for Damon and Stefan. It’ll be hilarious if she finds the words for Caroline next episode too.
I don’t mind that Sheila disappeared. She’s been warning Bonnie every single time she’s seen her and Bonnie’s been ignoring her earnings just as long. I figure she didn’t want to see the exact moment that Bonnie killed herself at 18-years-old.
Yes! Why isn’t Alaric still the ultimate hunter? His line was disgusting because remember when they wanted us to believe that Alaric cares about Elena’s well-being and interests?
Bonnie’s not 18, we didn’t see her birthday …
It’s so awful! So all she needed was 24 hours to be ready to forgive and forget?
Rewatching the scene where Bonnie says she’s not ready to forgive and forget, it looks like she was just making that excuse to Caroline to not show up at the Salvatore house because she was hiding out from everyone to meet Katherine and work on her plan? And in 4.22 she says “This was always the plan” to bring back Jeremy because Elena needs him, so maybe we were supposed to think she was just lying about not being ready to forgive Elena yet.
At least, that’s what it looks like to me in retrospect. 😐
:(. I’m choosing to believe she meant it but the writers screwed up in 4.22. Kat said it way too sincerely. I know the writers are kept in the dark about every single script, but geez. For my sanity, I’m believing that Bonnie meant what she said about not beign ready to forgive and forget.
While I get how you feel, hating Bonnie is misplaced hate imo. She’s written this way and she’s trapped in this role when it doesn’t even make sense for her character. She’s not written to be interesting on her own, she’s written to benefit Elena’s storyline. Everything Bonnie gets is for Elena to get and benefit from one way or another.
Let’s just hope she dies for good, so it ends. Feeling bad for her, stanning her, calling her a fave is basically just making life harder for yourself because she respects herself even less than the writing does.
I think that if Bonnie dies, they’ll replace her with a white witch which will get the storylines Bonnie will never get. She’ll be the third lead, on equal footing with Elena and Caroline and will get to be treated as a human being. She’ll get to say when she’s fed up because she’ll get to be seen as vulnerable and worth protecting.
I actually thought that season 4 was going to end with Bonnie sacrificing herself for Elena and season 5 will be about introducing another white female lead, which while filling Bonnie’s role, could also be a character JP and her posse would be willing to work with.
I don’t think it’s misplaced hate. I hate the Salvatores (for different reasons) it’s because of the writing that they are the way they are too. I can’t not judge Bonnie as she is in canon. I know about he outside show stuff, the writing process, etc, but the canon matters too, good and bad.
I doubt she’s going to stay dead, though I really wish she would. I need to create the 4.23 post so that I can post the articles related to the finale.
I wish they’d keep her dead and introduce a white female character to be Elena and Caroline’s friend. Maybe April can fill the role. This is the perfect time for them to get rid of the witch character because every problem that could be solved with magic is gone: Silas is gone and they have the cure. All Bonnie needs to do is put the veil up with herself on the other side, and they can go forward writing plots that don’t need a magic fix.
OH I KNOW I KNOW BONNIE POSSESSES APRIL! DUN. FULL CIRCLE!
Congratulations on the 500 followers btw.
Also, do you have a goodreads? I suscribed recently to remember what I’ve read or want to read. It’s awesome.
Thank you!
I do have goodreads! I recently created an account. I’m on my iPad right now, so I’ll send you my account name when I get in my computer.
Cool, I’m curious on what’s on your list. I’ve added that Toni Morisson book you mentioned before to my list. I don’t have many books rn since I’ve only added stuff I’ve read this year. Here’s my page
http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/19985820-nemesispawn
I’m currently reading Anne Rice…Or at least I’m trying to lol. It’s been a long time since I’ve picked up those books and I feel so differently about them now.
See you on GR then.
I’ve added you and sent you a message letting you know it’s me, lol.
I actually can’t find the book I’m supposed to be reading right now -___-. I saw it around the house when I didn’t need it -__-.
I understand your frustration and I don’t get the point of making Bonnie bringing back Jeremy about Elena! I feel like that line was very unnecessary, Bonnie has plenty reason on her own to want to bring back Jeremy that has nothing to do with Elena, why couldn’t THAT be what sent her over the edge? The previous episodes were filled with moments where Bonnie was hallucinating/dreaming about Jeremy (even though it was via Silas), Jeremy sorta died trying to protect her, and I feel like that within itself is enough reason for Bonnie to be willing to risk everything to try and bring Jeremy back, because she misses him, they had unfinished business, they were just almost finding their way back to each other , or something and she didn’t want to let go of that just yet. So the whole “Elena needs him.” was not neccessary because it completely ignores Bonnie’s own emotional investment in Jeremy, and instead makes it all about doing things for Elena, I can’t imagine what the show is trying to achieve by purposefully ignoring Bonnie’s own reasons for bringing Jeremy back and making it all about Elena, especially after they’ve gone through such lengths to show how much Bonnie refused let go of Jeremy.
Could it be that Bonnie is ashamed to admit that bringing back Jeremy is mostly for her? Could Elena just be an excuse? The way Bonnie’s been written, she’s been all about putting herself last (which I hate) and trying to do what’s best for everyone else at the expense of herself, but I can’t reconcile how they’ve written Beremy these last few episodes, with Bonnie’s line about “Elena needing Jeremy.” I could possibly see Bonnie saying that (especially to her grams) that it’s about Elena if only to convince herself that she’s not being reckless for her own “selfish” reasons (i.e wanting Jeremy back). I can totally see Bonnie being ashamed to admit that for the first time since the last time she brought him back from the dead in 2×22, she’s willing to do something so reckless for herself, because she refuses to live without Jeremy, (remember last time she told the spirits it was because she Loved him!) and since Jeremy’s death sent Elena spiraling, coupled with the fact that Bonnie is so used to sacrificing herself for Elena, that makes Elena the perfect “excuse.” People who are so used to putting their own needs last sometimes feel they need to an excuse to do something for themselves, because they think wanting things for themselves makes them selfish.
IDK. I would honestly prefer this interpretation because the alternative is just too gross, and it makes more sense to me because there has to be a reason why the show has shown us that Bonnie just isn’t over Jeremy’s death and her desire to bring him back has had nothing to do with Elena in the past episodes and everything to do with how she felt about him.
As far as Elena getting the most emotional pay-off with Jeremy I think that was to be expected considering that was a huge arc for her this season. So that part didn’t bother me at all.
I’m just waiting to watch the season finale and I honestly think it might be my last depending on how things end up for Bonnie. I really hope my interpretation of that scene was correct and Bonnie is allowed to get some kind of emotional pay-off with Jeremy otherwise, I fear that you might be right and the writers once again made Bonnie sacrifice herself to death only for Elena’s sake and it’s even worst if her death is permanent this time! I can’t even begin to process that right now, because I know that after all the grief that the show had Elena experiencing over Jeremy, they will not have her grieving Bonnie for another season! Bonnie’s death will probably get an episode where the characters grieve for her, and they’ll be moving on ASAP, and forgetting she even existed.
But I do agree with all of your points about Bonnie’s portrayal on the show as subservient to the white characters! And the thing is, the show is smart, it makes sure to tell you that Elena and Caroline are just as willing to sacrifice themselves for Bonnie and everyone else they love so you can’t possibly think that Bonnie is a better person than them for her continued sacrifices. But they NEVER put Elena and Caroline in situations where they have to repeatedly sacrifice themselves for Bonnie or anyone else for that matter. I always see some people saying that Elena would never do these things for Bonnie, but I disagree, the show’s canon shows that in normal circumstances Elena would do whatever’s in her power to protect Bonnie just the same, the issue is that the show never requires her to, never puts her in any situation where she has to, but ALWAYS puts Bonnie in situations where she’s the only person with the means to help Elena and always at the risk of herself. So Julie Plec isn’t just exalting her white heroines, she’s made sure to protect them too, to make sure they’re as selfless and caring as Bonnie is, only they’re never put in situations where they have to give a damn about Bonnie. It’s quite clever!
I actually meant the show is making Bonnie’s sacrifice about Elena not you! l just re-read that and it reads weird! LOL.
I feel like that line was very unnecessary, Bonnie has plenty reason on her own to want to bring back Jeremy that has nothing to do with Elena, why couldn’t THAT be what sent her over the edge?
I don’t understand why they feel that Bonnie is most relateable when Elena is her motivation for doing things.
it completely ignores Bonnie’s own emotional investment in Jeremy, and instead makes it all about doing things for Elena,
YES! It’s complete and total bs because this whole time they’ve been using Bonnie’s connection to Jeremy (not Bonnie’s feelings about Elena’s connection to Jeremy) as her drive for working with Silas. Bonnie’s feelings about Jeremy is how Silas got in her head! But now when it matters the most, when she can actually bring him back, they trash her feelings by having her say that Elena needs him and it was always her plan to bring him back…..for Elena.
I’m so offended! Because even though Bonnie wasn’t around for Elena’s spiral and never so much as got an update on her because she was isolated while Silas was preying on her emotions and no one so much as paid her a visit, I’M SUPPOSED TO THINK THAT SHE HAD ELENA IN MIND ALL ALONG! A 2000 year old vampire was messing with Bonnie’s mind and making her feel powerless and reliant on him, and they told us that that whole time Bonnie was thinking about bringing Jeremy back For Elena because Elena needs her brother? Really?!
Could it be that Bonnie is ashamed to admit that bringing back Jeremy is mostly for her? Could Elena just be an excuse?
It won’t matter if she never says it onscreen. Carina MacKenzie says Beremy will have scenes in the finale. That is her chance to say it. She was so over the top when she said she wants to bring Jeremy back because Elena needs him, and she even died for it! It’s like Jeremy saying he always loved Anna even though it LOOKED like he was in love with Bonnie at the end of season 2. I need Bonnie to say something or a couple of things that will make me accept that she said what she said because of her self-esteem issues. Because this show WOULD think there’s nothing wrong with Bonnie doing this for Elena and even dying for it.
I can totally see your version of why Bonnie said what she said. I see it so clearly! But I need her to say it on the show. I need to hear it from her mouth, preferably in a Beremy or Bonnie/Sheila scene.
But they NEVER put Elena and Caroline in situations where they have to repeatedly sacrifice themselves for Bonnie or anyone else for that matter.
Nope! When it comes to Elena and Caroline (especially Elena) it’s supposed to be good enough that they’d do these things for Bonnie in theory. We don’t need actual evidence, let alone evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence like we have for Bonnie.
Except we have seen it with Caroline….she was willing to kill 12 witches to save Bonnie.
I know what you mean, but Caroline wasn’t sacrificing herself. She killed 12 witches (and that’s a big deal, though the show of course brushed over it one episode later), but it came at no harm or stress to her body or her emotions. Nor is it a regular thing with Caroline. Caroline isn’t put in situations where she has to repeatedly sacrifice for Bonnie (which is fine since Bonnie doesn’t sacrifice all that much for her either).
I don’t even need people to be sacrificing themselves for Bonnie. I just need to see, in Elena’s case because she’s the main one, justification from them for why Bonnie keeps going above and beyond. Sort of a, “Elena is such a rock of support for Bonnie. I totally see where Bonnie’s coming from.” But I don’t. I saw it with Sheila and Jeremy. That’s it.
But yeah, I went overboard with this (it’s supposed to be good enough that they’d do these things for Bonnie in theory. We don’t need actual evidence, let alone evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence like we have for Bonnie) where Caroline is concerned, because they don’t have the type of relationship that Elena/Bonnie have.
I agree, though I have to add that Caroline didn’t know that she was killing those witches either. So it kinda just happened.
And I also agree that we don’t get to see Bonnie putting herself in danger all that much for Caroline because Caroline isn’t the main character (though I’ve heard rumors that she’s gonna be more of a lead coming S5 because of Steroline which I dread!), but the point I was making is that none of the other girls have had to do that much sacrificing for anyone on the show like Bonnie continues to.
You saw the bit of Steroline pimping we got this episode? These producers have no shame except when it comes to little Black Bonnie and her one canon ship.
Of course they don’t! Caroline is going on what, her 5th love interest? And Bonnie has only had 1 serious one, which she didn’t even get to have a single love scene with. Is KG uncomfortable doing those types of scenes or something? That’s the only sad excuse I can come up with. Unfortunately 😦
But yeah, not looking forward to Steroline on account of Stefan being awful and an abusive patriarchal piece of crap.
Even if they never take it there, the fact that they’re making a habit out of teasing it now is enough. Caroline even has the blessing of the bestie. Speaking of which, Stefan being sad that he hadn’t seen Lexi would’ve been nice if the fact that she’d made a habit out of torturing him wasn’t being ignored.
Why did Lexi even come back? The point of Ghost World is that the ghosts who appeared still had unfinished business. Lexi should’ve been on the other side of the other side. The point was that when they left, they wouldn’t be going back to the same place because they’d all moved on. So Lexi should be wherever the heck Pearl and Sheila were.
The so-called prodigy died the same way as an undisciplined witch. And why? Because her logic flies out into space when Elena is involved.
“Well Shane’s wife died when she tried to bring her son back using Expression. I’ve been scared this whole time about Expression killing me or causing me to kill innocents, so what should I do different? I know! I’ll not only use Expression, but Dark magic. And spirit magic! Yes! Because it’s for Elena, and I’m the darkness.”
Smh.
But on the non-Bonnie front, I liked Matt refusing to take Rebekah’s blood because people have a bad habit of turning into vampires. It retroactively explains him walking around with a band-aid when Elena was feeding on him. And it makes sense! I ranted on the 4.19 podcast about how irritating it is to me that none of the vampire kids on the show (Matt, Jeremy, Bonnie) have grown to cherish being human/not being a vampire. I wanted any of the three of them to say exactly what Matt said here, only I wanted it in the 4.01 premier, right after Elena became a vampire. So Matt’s line was a good thing in this episode.
Who expected Vaughn to be dead? Lol. I bet they hadn’t even decided whether he was alive or dead until they realized it’d be “cool” to have as many hunters as possible.
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. you know who writes this show that should give you a huge clue about how WoC will be treated/written. The fortunate characters DIE before their character can be fucked over. Or if you’re really lucky you’re Lucy Bennett.
Jeremy and Anna got back together on the other side because that’s a thing and they love each other and it doesn’t mater that she used him to find her mother 4000 times lol true love.
Tyler and Bonnie shoulda been a thing … but then Vicky probably would have come back and gotten in-between that …
And in the meantime Caroline has Klaus, Tyler, Stefan (the list goes on really) and Elena has people (white dudes … lol but not her dad … oops he wasn’t spn) coming back from the dead for her and fucking matt davis is on tvd again which mean that rat bastard is also all over my gat damn dash looking fug as hell and I really want him to be famous in Antarctica so I never have to see him again *gag*
I’m about to go read your other 49 post now.
brb when teen wolf starts airing again. ilu.
Or if you’re really lucky you’re Lucy Bennett.
Gone and forgotten.
Jeremy and Anna got back together on the other side because that’s a thing and they love each other and it doesn’t mater that she used him to find her mother 4000 times lol true love.
Like hell. Not the way he was looking after Bonnie while she walked away, lol.http://indeathonly.tumblr.com/post/50134872335/lovesomeleavetherest-indeathonly
and I really want him to be famous in Antarctica so I never have to see him again
Lol! There are Alaric or Dalaric fans on your dash?
I’m about to go read your other 49 post now.
:P. I was heated, and the nonsense just kept coming to me, so I had to post. Lol.
Gone and forgotten is a blessing on this horrible ass show when the alternative is violent death and an unmarked grave where no one mourns you …
Lucy is a goddess. I mean she played the hell outta Bonnie with that “you’re the one who needs to be in the middle” bs (or whatever she said). Troll on Lucy because you’re alive right now.
Alta … does Jeremy want to bone Bonnie or what. You said all he did was give her a hug. That look was not Jeremy Gilbert. That look was Steven R. McQueen.
Lol! There are Alaric or Dalaric fans on your dash?
ALLL OVER AND TUMBLR SAVIOR … *weeps*
Steven R. McQueen playing Jeremy Gilbert, infusing in him what the writers refuse to put down in words. Jeremy wants to bone Bonnie, come correct.
Lol.
… LMAO okay.
Just because Steven wants it doesn’t mean Jeremy loooooves Bonnie. We’ve never heard him express anything like that (or maybe y’all did cause y’all kept watching)
but we heard that mofo say he loved anna. *gag*
I don’t ship it I’m just saying.
I do kinda ship your au version tho, canon has messed it up for me 5ever.
Jeremy wants to bone, probably so does damon
Trevino wanted scenes with Kat. If tyler and bonnie ever got scenes … would that mean Tyler …?
An wabr probably wants to bone kat graham, but we know that’s not love.
ps *gag*
Have you ead this interview with JP already: http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/05/09/vampire-diaries-klaus-baby-finale/
Shows you how the working atmosphere in the TVD writers room must look like.
One room was working on episode 2, and one room was working on episode 3. And in the episode 2 room, where I was, I don’t know how it came up, but I leapt out of my chair and ran down the hall and pitched it to the other room. I didn’t even give them a chance to disagree. Who knows if they loved it or hated it? They were so bombasted by my enthusiasm. Everybody was like, ‘Whoa! Whoa!’ So that was a story line we were intending to play, even if there was no spinoff that came to fruition.”
Someone was talking about this on Tumblr. I would LOATHE working for her. She seems like the type of head writer who stifles their team’s creativity by always imposing their own.
“Bonnie’s not very nice to Katherine in this episode”
Why would she be nice to Katherine in any episode?
… I fucking can’t!
JP gives an interview meant to reassure the Klaroline fans.
“To be fair, there are plenty of people who hate the idea that she would ever look sideways at the guy that murdered her boyfriend’s mother and sent him running from town like a chicken — there’s definitely plenty of those people rooting against that twosome,” Plec tells us. “It’s our second-most controversial love triangle, I suppose. But on behalf of those who love Klaus and Caroline together, they look at this pregnancy storyline and think that means ‘Oh, Klaus is going to go away and be a good dad and fall for the baby-mama and forget all about Caroline.’ No. Hell no.”
No. Hell no.
Hell no.
I dislike her so much. She’s wheezing in her hasty attempt to reassure the Klaroline people.
Jeremy’s not violent enough for Beremy to interest her, is the thing. She likes her male love interests to have the ability and will power to terrorize their lady LIs. If they can’t leave the ladies pleading, in tears, or looking shocked to their cores, then she’s not interested.
If Jeremy had insulted Bonnie’s intelligence or terrorized her at the spot where Sheila died, yelled at her a couple of times while Bonnie flinched, they would’ve had sex at least four times before he died; heck before he even cheated.
The Delenas, Stelenas, Forwoods (because of Caroline), Klarolines, and maybe the Bamon fans later, and now the Steroline fans, at least some of the people in all of those ships had JP liking/loving/seeing the ship the way they do (because we there are some who love everything the show does). Now let us try to find a common ground between any Beremy shipper and Julie Plec. No common ground exists. Hell, I think she reassured the Bamon fans more in seasons 1 and 2 (I know because I paid attention when I shipped it) than she’s ever reassured the Beremy fans, and the latter was actually a canon ship.
I don’t like her.
This woman …
sent him running from town like a chicken
She has NO respect for some of the characters she is writing for. That sounds like some Klaus-stan but not like the person who creates this show.
there’s definitely plenty of those people rooting against that twosome
“those people” sounds like she judges people who just don´t want Caroline with the guy killed so many people and who killed Tyler and his mom. Like this is an unrealistic opinion.
That sounds like some Klaus-stan but not like the person who creates this show.
Yes, it does! That’s it exactly. She doesn’t sound like an objective creator of these characters (as they exist on the show, because I know someone else created them).
Yep, it sure does.
By the way, Kathrin, I hear Eurovision is this coming Saturday? 😉
Just saw this comment:
By the way, Kathrin, I hear Eurovision is this coming Saturday? 😉
Lmao that´s true and Germany is going to be so embarrassing this time. We practically have a copy of the song/of the sound of last years winner and the artist can´t sing live. Last year I thought the artist was at least cute but this year, no just no.
But I will be looking out for JPs romance inspirations again 😉
Wow, lol. I hope you enjoy watching it!
And this year you have Klaus/Hayley. Lol.
Hey Alta, are you and Sabrina going to review Scandal 2×21?
Yep, we will. I just need to watch it, lol. Sabrina’s editing 2.20. She was out of town for mother’s day (and I was out of town the day it aired as well as a couple of days after), so that’s why it (and the rest of the Scandal/TVD podcasts for the season) is going to uploaded it. She’s looking to have it done by Wednesday.
The webclip is out.
Thank you so much!!! I just created the 4.23 speculation post when I saw you posted this, so I’m going to post my reaction there.
Bonnie stopped Katherine from hurting her by saying that whatever happened to her would happen to Katherine. And we saw reason for this because any time Bonnie moved, Katherine had to move. So Katherine was linked to Bonnie.
How/why was Bonnie linked to Katherine? If Katherine getting hurt meant Bonnie getting hurt, shouldn’t Bonnie have been forced to move any time Katherine moved? They’re only equally linked when it comes to pain?
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That was a really interesting post.
I don’t know if the show has gotten to the point where Bonnie is a Mammy figure to everyone, though. I still think it’s more of an issue with Bonnie specifically with respect to Elena…her other relationships seem more balanced to me? Almost all the time, when she’s going all-out and over the top to an extreme degree trying to do something, it’s either for Elena, or for a group of people where Elena is one of the group. There might be a couple of exceptions but this is the general pattern I see.
I think she is. The stuff in the finale is the most/only egregious example, but it’s still an example of Bonnie being written to be over-the-top in her caring about a group (of white people) and of course Elena is always involved. The point is that Bonnie saying “my friends/for my friends” carries a different weight than everyone else saying it because Bonnie is always written to back up what she’s saying.
Matt cares about Bonnie and her happiness but he’s leaving for the summer AND wants to leave Mystic for good.
Bonnie cares about Matt and his happiness so she won’t encroach on his happiness by letting him know that something horrible’s happened to her. She won’t let him know that she’s unhappy.
What I now find funny about the thought (that I used to share) that Bonnie’s other friendships are more balanced than the one she has with Elena is that they weren’t balanced because those people were there for Bonnie while Elena wasn’t. They were balanced because of a LACK of interaction. Like, Caroline and Matt don’t interact with Bonnie that much so she doesn’t get the opportunity to do much for them specifically like she does with Elena, so the friendships are balanced. But there’s still a LACK of interaction. There’s still a lack of them being there for Bonnie, but it’s more palatable because Bonnie isn’t doing the most for them.
It’s pretty damn sad to me that Bonnie’s balanced friendships don’t actually include those people doing something that Elena doesn’t: spending time with her, being there for her, etc.
The only balanced relationship Bonnie has that includes the person doing for her (as opposed to a LACK like with Caroline and Matt) is Jeremy. Jeremy actively worries about Bonnie, is invested in her, talks to her when they get a chance, etc.
So basically, Bonnie’s friendships with Matt and Caroline are balanced because of a negative (they DON’T do such and such) while Bonnie’s friendship/whatever with Jeremy is balanced because of a positive (he DOES such and such).
And honestly, because of the length Bonnie went to in the finale (keeping her death secret from Caroline and Matt because those two were finally happy), it leaves a sour taste in my mouth to label those friendships as balanced. They’re not as bad as Bonnie/Elena, but there’s still a failure there (especially on Caroline’s part in the last couple of episodes).
I pretty much agree about the finale. And it’s kind of a weird thing for me because I absolutely agree that the racism in Bonnie’s narrative as a whole is a huge problem, but I…still don’t really agree about the individual relationships? Like, I still see a big difference between Bonnie-Elena and everything else.
I hope it’s OK if I continue debating the other dynamics in general? Let me know if it makes you uncomfortable that I disagree on some points and I’ll drop it.
– The main reason why I disagree is because I don’t think lack of interaction time is the reason why we see Bonnie doing less for her other friends than she does for Elena. I think it’s a valid reading to say that the show has written Bonnie as having a higher level of dedication to Elena than to anyone else, she will go to extremes for Elena, that she will not go to for anyone else. I don’t think spending more time with the others would change that, especially since one of the reasons why Bonnie spends so much time with Elena is because she’s helping Elena. Even in something like the 2nd or 3rd ep of S1 we hear Bonnie saying that “Elena and I are bonded for life. She’s my sister, I’d die for her.” It’s clearly nothing like whatever friendship she feels for Matt, and I don’t think Caroline, either? She’d never risk killing herself to bring back a dead person for Matt because “Matt needs him.”
Also, until this season finale I think (maybe I’m wrong?) there’s a difference between how often Elena actively recruits Bonnie’s help (or assumes she will help) and the others do, even if you take into account that Elena interacts with Bonnie more often. Other than 4.23 and maybe 4.01 I can’t remember Caroline ever asking Bonnie to do a spell for her? And both those cases are different from when Bonnie does stuff for Elena because it was Bonnie finishing what she started on her own initiative: raising the veil after dropping it, and unswitching Tyler and Klaus after switching them (and Bonnie had intended to do both those things anyway.) Whereas Elena asks Bonnie to finish stuff that Elena’s started, that Bonnie hadn’t thought of. Although I think I agree with you somewhat about Matt because he asked Bonnie to finish what he started when he brought Vicki back.
– And I think the other relationships are more reciprocal in the sense that (apart from this finale) the writers let Bonnie “not care” about the others, too. By which I mean, the writers let Bonnie walk away from Caroline in 4.21 even though nothing bad had happened in their relationship (which makes it different from her defending herself against Elena at prom because Elena was the aggressor then and gave Bonnie REASON to fight back.) The writers let Bonnie walk away from Caroline when Caroline got turned, and then Caroline was the one who had to fight for that relationship, who had to earn Bonnie back even though it really wasn’t her fault that she lost Bonnie in the first place (which makes it different, to me, from when Bonnie walked away from Elena in S1 because then it was Bonnie who came back, and apologized, even though Elena hadn’t done or said anything different since Bonnie walked away, so nothing had changed since Bonnie walked away.) And there’s more of a balance in “uncaring” behavior where, for instance, Caroline brushes off Bonnie talking about waking up on fire in the dress shop, and in S1 Bonnie brushed off Caroline talking about passing out and having memory loss after Damon came up behind her at the party*.
It’s qualitatively different to me from Bonnie’s relationship with Elena where Bonnie is always interested in what’s going on with Elena, where Bonnie never steps back from Elena unless Elena’s done something as extreme as trying to kill her (and even then Elena had to try TWICE before Bonnie did more than act in self-defense), where Bonnie always forgives and relents without Elena having to do anything to work for it, AND where Elena’s lack of caring has NEVER been matched in the whole 4 seasons of canon by something equivalent from Bonnie.
It’s even different for me from how much Bonnie cares about Jeremy. She was angry at Elena for compelling him and then keeping it a secret from him, even though in the end she backed up Elena and kept her secret for her. But she never thought Elena was wrong for not telling Caroline about Damon in S1 even though Damon was still in town. Bonnie risked everything to bring Jeremy back from the dead after he had already died (which to me is different from risking everything to stop someone from dying or being killed in front of you.) So when I weigh how balanced the relationships are, I have more coming from Bonnie’s side in Jeremy’s case, to match more coming from his side.
*I think this issue gets complicated by the fact that the imbalances are different at different points in the show’s run? So in S1 Caroline called Bonnie every day while she was away after her Grams died, and I don’t think that difference between her and Elena is because Bonnie was written to have more interaction with Elena? And in S2 obviously we have Caroline working to get Bonnie back as a friend, and then interested in Bonnie’s love life and trying to help things along with Jeremy. And in 3.07 she’s concerned about how Bonnie’s feeling about Jeremy seeing Anna again, and in the Abby arc we see Bonnie telling her a bit about her magic and how witches are connected to the earth, and I’m not saying Caroline couldn’t have done more to keep Elena away, but she did try. And then in 4.21 she wants to check in with Bonnie to make sure Silas isn’t still controlling her, and in 4.22 she’s the only character that Silas thought was necessary to stall and keep away from Bonnie (by making her cut herself) which looks like he thought she was the only one that Silas thought might go looking for Bonnie? So I see more of a pattern of, “Caroline used to be more actively concerned with Bonnie and where Bonnie was at emotionally, but she is growing less concerned over time,” rather than, “She’s never been concerned and it’s just less obvious because they interact less than Bonnie and Elena.”
And it also kinda sorta depends on how much you hold different characters accountable for the writing, maybe? Like, if you say there’s a failure there on Caroline’s part in the last 2 eps of the season then you could say there was a failure on Jeremy’s part for the whole of S3? Of course there’s the debatable question of what each individual viewer considers OOC, but then again given S1-S3 I find Caroline OOC with Bonnie in the Prom ep especially (I read a post somewhere the said it’s wrong because Caroline is pushy and insensitive but she’s usually pushy and insensitive trying to get people TO TALK about shit they DON’T want to talk about? Which I agree with. I also thought it was OOC for Bonnie though less than for Caroline, because Bonnie usually buries that stuff and doesn’t want to open up about it. IDK.)
Uh, apparently my thoughts on this were way longer than I thought they were going to be. Um…oops. :S
I think we agree for the most part. I agree that there’s a difference between Bonnie/Elena and Bonnie/everyone else. The thing for me though is that what happened in the finale was a big tipping point in the case of Bonnie being as absent in Matt/Caroline’s lives as they are in hers. She’s dead and she didn’t want to tell either of them because their happiness is that important to her. That’s a huge deal, and it’s why I say that, at this point, Matt/Bonnie and Caroline/Bonnie being better than Bonnie/Elena because Bonnie doesn’t do this and that for them like she does for Elena barely means much to me because what Bonnie said to Jeremy in the finale screwed up this “we equally don’t do much for each other” status.
It doesn’t mean that from now on Matt/Bonnie scenes and Bonnie/Caroline* will give me heartburn like Elena/Bonnie scenes, but I’ll remember the dynamic that was shown in 4.23.
And I think the other relationships are more reciprocal in the sense that (apart from this finale) the writers let Bonnie “not care” about the others, too.
That’s what I meant by positives and negatives. Bonnie’s relationships with Matt and Caroline were “good”/”better” than Bonnie/Elena because of something she WASN’T doing (this omits Bonnie/Caroline in seasons 1 and 2, since they were both DOING and NOT doing). But the finale changed that in a huge way for me. Bonnie’s NOT doing something was turned into her DOING something. She died and decided not to tell Matt or Caroline because their happiness is so important to her. That’s a positive.
And there’s more of a balance in “uncaring” behavior where, for instance, Caroline brushes off Bonnie talking about waking up on fire in the dress shop, and in S1 Bonnie brushed off Caroline talking about passing out and having memory loss after Damon came up behind her at the party*.
I don’t think the case of Bonnie asking Caroline, “Why would you do that?” in season 1 after Caroline said she thinks she let Damon bite her was Bonnie brushing her off. Bonnie was listening and she questioned Caroline’s behavior (same as Caroline was doing, questioning her own behavior). Caroline thought she let Damon bite her. Caroline wasn’t sure and Bonnie couldn’t be sure for her because she didn’t know about vamps at the time or about the nature of Damon and Caro’s relationship. The one time she told Caroline to be careful with Damon because he’s “older, sexy, danger guy,” Caroline basically told her she was worried about nothing by asking her if “older, sexy, danger guy” was a “witch twitter tweet.”
You are right about Bonnie’s failure to tell Caroline about Damon after she learned about vamps, though.
Bonnie/Caroline turned sour for me in 3.14 and has yet to recover. It’s actually gotten worse. In the 3.14 podcast, I said it: Caroline not just being indignant that she had to learn about the Delena kiss from Bonnie, but that she called Bonnie, “someone else.” That rubbed me the wroooong way. Like, how dare she learn about something so important from Bonnie. Really? Okay. She basically qualified Bonnie as a third-wheel/an outsider, and that’s when the Bonnie/Caroline ship (because I did ship them in fanon, lol) died for me. I think I said on tumblr that the last good Bonnie/Caroline scene was in Ghost World.
I saw it as JP moving Caroline on up as second-lead and trying to make it look like she and Elena were tight. But the words still came out of Caroline’s mouth.
And someone will probably say that Caroline killed someone for Bonnie. Yeah. And Elena woke Elijah up to keep Bonnie from dying. Did either of them interact or go see about Bonnie AFTER that? What made Bonnie/Caroline great in seasons 1 and 2 (and early season 3) for me were the little/normal things. Like, as you pointed out, Caroline being mad on Bonnie’s behalf about Jeremy kissing Anna and Caroline noticing the Beremy situation in season 2 and giving Bon advice about it. Because while it’s commendable that Caroline cares about Bonnie so much that she killed a witch to save her, how often is that going to happen? And that’s my thing.
So when I weigh how balanced the relationships are, I have more coming from Bonnie’s side in Jeremy’s case, to match more coming from his side.
I’m a little confused about what you’re saying here. Are you saying that you feel that Bonnie has done more for Jeremy than he’s done for her, so it’s not balanced?
I do think Jeremy failed Bonnie when he came back from Denver**. What makes it palatable though is that we don’t have Jeremy onscreen knowing what happened to Abby and still not visiting Bonnie, you know? It’s worse when we have the character knowing (like, we can point to a scene) or know that there’s a sure way that they’d find out, and they’re still not there for another: so things like Bon knowing about Jeremy’s compulsion but not telling him, Bon knowing about Damon but not telling Caroline, Elena knowing that Bonnie tried everything to keep her from transitioning but failed (as evidenced by her having to become a vamp) AND that Bon made her a ring and STILL not going to see anything about her.
I read a post somewhere the said it’s wrong because Caroline is pushy and insensitive but she’s usually pushy and insensitive trying to get people TO TALK about shit they DON’T want to talk about?
I saw that post and I agree with it, too. I don’t think Caroline’s latest reactions are ooc, but if she keeps going in this direction….like, I think Bonnie being SO damn self-sacrificial for Elena is INCREDIBLY ooc in light of all that’s happened. But it’s still something I have to face and read as part of her character because the crap happens so freaking often -_____-.
*Ever since 3.17 I actually have been just cocking my head at Bonnie/Caroline scenes, because I just don’t see anything there. The dress shop scene could’ve been good, but Caroline’s reaction ruined it. I don’t think it was out of character for Bonnie to tell Caroline about it. She keeps to herself when she gets hurt (usually by someone else), but this was a dream she’d had. She told Elena about the witches sending her dreams of the coffins in season 3.
**You said he failed Bonnie for all of season 3. What do you mean? He cheated (which I think was ooc, and yeah it’s a failure on the personal level) and then he was compelled and sent to Denver. Other than actually being a good boyfriend, there was nothing Bonnie needed be done for her in terms of support in the first half of season 3 (well other than when Jeremy cheated, and Caroline took care of that).
I think we agree for the most part.
Yeah, reading your 2nd comment I think we agree more than I thought at first, it was just I misunderstood some things you were saying.
The thing for me though is that what happened in the finale was a big tipping point in the case of Bonnie being as absent in Matt/Caroline’s lives as they are in hers.
I agree. Like, I think it’s because JP wants to make ~drama out of Bonnie’s death being a secret, but it still ends up as part of the show.
Bonnie’s relationships with Matt and Caroline were “good”/”better” than Bonnie/Elena because of something she WASN’T doing (this omits Bonnie/Caroline in seasons 1 and 2, since they were both DOING and NOT doing).
Yeah, like, this is one of the parts where I misunderstood you because I thought you were including Bonnie/Caroline in S1-S2 when you were talking about their relationship not being balanced.
I’ve had this thought that maybe what JP is aiming to do with Bonnie being a ghost is trying to make the friendships more equal again, because Elena and Caroline are going to have to work to bring Bonnie back, I think. So they’re going to be the ones helping her now? But that’s just my guess.
I don’t think the case of Bonnie asking Caroline, “Why would you do that?” in season 1 after Caroline said she thinks she let Damon bite her was Bonnie brushing her off.
Oh, I meant the part where Bonnie ignored the part about Caroline’s memory loss and passing out? I don’t think badly of Bonnie for it, I think it’s pretty average teen behavior (also she was going through a lot of stuff of her own at the time.) Maybe “brushing her off” is the wrong way to put it, I just definitely thought it was a case of…not taking the problem as seriously as it was maybe warranted (then again I read the “memory loss and passing out” dialogue as a straight up analogy to being Roofied and so I see it as the much bigger warning sign in the conversation than the biting part.)
Caroline not just being indignant that she had to learn about the Delena kiss from Bonnie, but that she called Bonnie, “someone else.” That rubbed me the wroooong way.
Oh, that’s interesting, I have to say that’s not how it struck me but that’s not to deny your interpretation (I saw the “someone else” as being used to put the emphasis on someone Who Wasn’t Elena, passing on the information, because Elena was the one directly in the relationship with Damon…IDK.)
And someone will probably say that Caroline killed someone for Bonnie. Yeah. And Elena woke Elijah up to keep Bonnie from dying. Did either of them interact or go see about Bonnie AFTER that?
I’m really mad at the writers about this when it comes to Caroline in particular because it makes no sense. It makes no sense for who the characters are, and it didn’t even make sense for the plot. IDK, I’m (me, personally) incapable of being mad at anyone except the writers for this because it’s just so dumb. It’s like how they had Stefan go to see Bonnie in 4.02 even though Jeremy and Caroline were both there when Bonnie overtaxed herself doing magic in 4.01. What even.
I’m a little confused about what you’re saying here. Are you saying that you feel that Bonnie has done more for Jeremy than he’s done for her, so it’s not balanced?
No, I meant that I felt Bonnie has done more (actually “done more” is not the right phrase, I’ll clarify in a bit) for Jeremy than she has for Matt or Caroline so it’s natural to me that Jeremy does more for Bonnie in return than Matt/Caroline do. But “done more” isn’t right, it’s not what I mean. What I mean is I think Bonnie is more…personally individually dedicated to Jeremy than she is to Matt, certainly, and even Caroline (which is why I brought up the example of Bonnie’s reaction to Elena keeping secrets from Jeremy vs. keeping secrets from Caroline, I mean, by the end of 3.11 she went along with Elena or at least didn’t do anything to overturn Elena but she did question Elena at least once, before that.) Which makes sense, because Bonnie loves Jeremy.
It’s worse when we have the character knowing (like, we can point to a scene) or know that there’s a sure way that they’d find out, and they’re still not there for another
Yes, I see what you mean. I’d actually forgotten about Elena and the daylight ring. 😐
You said he failed Bonnie for all of season 3. What do you mean?
I just meant he wasn’t there for her, pretty much (I used the word “failed” because you said “there was a failure there” from Matt and Caroline so I think I was just unconsciously echoing the choice of phrase.) In terms of the stuff you were saying earlier in your post about what you wanted to see from someone who was being there for Bonnie in a positive way, taking an active interest in her life, worrying about her, checking up on her, etc.
Like, I think it’s because JP wants to make ~drama out of Bonnie’s death being a secret, but it still ends up as part of the show.
Exactly. *Sigh.*
I’ve had this thought that maybe what JP is aiming to do with Bonnie being a ghost is trying to make the friendships more equal again, because Elena and Caroline are going to have to work to bring Bonnie back, I think. So they’re going to be the ones helping her now? But that’s just my guess.
I doubt. Outside of some meta from Katherine, JP isn’t interested in balancing the friendships. Episodes 22 and 23 showed me that.
Oh, I meant the part where Bonnie ignored the part about Caroline’s memory loss and passing out? I don’t think badly of Bonnie for it, I think it’s pretty average teen behavior (also she was going through a lot of stuff of her own at the time.) Maybe “brushing her off” is the wrong way to put it, I just definitely thought it was a case of…not taking the problem as seriously as it was maybe warranted (then again I read the “memory loss and passing out” dialogue as a straight up analogy to being Roofied and so I see it as the much bigger warning sign in the conversation than the biting part.)
Oh ok.
It’s like how they had Stefan go to see Bonnie in 4.02 even though Jeremy and Caroline were both there when Bonnie overtaxed herself doing magic in 4.01. What even.
Ugh. That was complete and utter bs.
No, I meant that I felt Bonnie has done more (actually “done more” is not the right phrase, I’ll clarify in a bit) for Jeremy than she has for Matt or Caroline so it’s natural to me that Jeremy does more for Bonnie in return than Matt/Caroline do. But “done more” isn’t right, it’s not what I mean. What I mean is I think Bonnie is more…personally individually dedicated to Jeremy than she is to Matt, certainly, and even Caroline (which is why I brought up the example of Bonnie’s reaction to Elena keeping secrets from Jeremy vs. keeping secrets from Caroline, I mean, by the end of 3.11 she went along with Elena or at least didn’t do anything to overturn Elena but she did question Elena at least once, before that.) Which makes sense, because Bonnie loves Jeremy.
Oh okay. I get it now, lol.