:[ … Bonnie and Matt have actual history! I don’t ship them romantically … >_> … yet.
It’s problematic, because Matt will have been with all of his childhood female friends. I just love that Bonnie is there for him and that they remember their past and OD SWEET LORD THE TALKING! *weeps*
It’s problematic, because Matt will have been with all of his childhood female friends. I just love that Bonnie is there for him and that they remember their past and OD SWEET LORD THE TALKING! *weeps*
I know what you mean! Full disclosure: I shipped them in the books and thought the show would go there in s1, before Matt/Caroline happened. But I can’t ship them now. I just want them to be best buds who can always talk to each other and call each other out for the little things.
When it was happening I thought of you and I was squeeing so hard when Matt mentioned lifeguards! it’s so perfect! Matt was trying to look out for his sister and Tyler! and Bonnie is looking out for everyone else! 😥
THEY WERE TALKING AND NOT ABOUT ELENA AND HER BULLSHIT! BUT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ELENA’S BULLSHIT AND THEY WERE CALLING IT BULLSHIT! BEST EPISODE THIS SEASON! :’]
I can’t because of all the baggage Matt has with Bonnie’s friends. Platonic relationship FTW! \o/ They both can benefit from this. And at the end of the scene he told her to leave so he could say good bye to his sister. He wasn’t begging her to use her magic to help him say good bye. I LOVE IT!
Oh and when he thought she was still lurking around! *flails*
I’m jumping ship too. Never thought I would ship Matt and Bonnie. Jeremy is too busy playing with dead girlfriends and Damon is too busy being a pussy.
I agree with Olu. I enjoyed the episode solely because of Matt and Bonnie. I couldn’t believe the amount of scenes they got together and the stuff they talked about. They even had a closing scene!
The episode starts out great, but then it delves into Stelena (Lord does it delve into Stelena), freaking Katherine, a small bit of Delena that was no less headache-inducing, and Tyler/Caroline were them.
I enjoyed the episode solely because of Matt and Bonnie. I couldn’t believe the amount of scenes they got together and the stuff they talked about. They even had a closing scene!
So much more happened with them than I was expecting and all of it was glorious.
the Stefan and Elena stuff was ridiculously stupid Elena really deserves to die at this point.
The Damon and Elena stuff was bad too and why wouldn’t Bonnie and Matt be wodering where Elena was they just left her ass with Klaus.
Damon was the only one who could find Elena in the hospital and pick her up and save her.
I love the scene when Stefan walked in on them and was like “carry on”
oh and when Klaus smacked Elena I’m against violence but I loved it. When people want to kill you shut up and figure away out of there.
Klaus is the worse I really want him to die, worse villian ever he was bad for like 0 episode he just wants to be loved he doesn’t want to be alone than you probably shouldn’t have killed your whole family.
Matt and Bonnie were great I loved all they’re conversations about life. I loved action Bonnie. She was not scared of Klaus at all because he isn’t scary.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic. I thought the reason Jeremy could see dead people was because of consequences of messing with nature using magic when she shouldn’t have. But now I’m conviced more than ever it is just fan service for J/A shippers.
Katherine needs to die one of Nina Dobrev’s characters needs to go. We really don’t need them both.
I need a Beremy scene next week they really need to talk about this ghost thing.
Vicki doesn’t seem evil so what was Anna talking about. She (vicki) was trying to help them.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic. I thought the reason Jeremy could see dead people was because of consequences of messing with nature using magic when she shouldn’t have
I’m going to fanwank that him being able to see her after Bonnie saved his life was part of Vicki’s goal. Since she seems more concerned with seeing him and hanging around him than anything else. & since no one else has actually died and seen a ghost in the interim, I’ll figure that it’s part of how it works. Especially since they touched each other while he was on the other side.
I wish they’d kept it secret what Vicki told Matt, so they could make up something later and then Matt and Bonnie and possibly later Jeremy, could have a secret about what was going on.
and why wouldn’t Bonnie and Matt be wodering where Elena was they just left her ass with Klaus.
Because they needed Damon to rescue her so that he could say he’ll never leave her.
I love the scene when Stefan walked in on them and was like “carry on”
That was pretty good. If only he’d been like that the past 4 episodes.
I was happy to hear Elena scream. Unlike when Klaus killed her and she had no reaction.
he was bad for like 0 episode
That’s pretty much true at this point.
She was not scared of Klaus at all because he isn’t scary.
She seems to be the only one who realizes this.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic.
I really hope this doesn’t stick, otherwise it’ll make no sense. Matt was brought back by normal means. Hopefully that last scene was just a residue of some kind. Please let it be!!!
Katherine needs to die
So freaking true. I need her to gooooo.
I don’t understand why Anna didn’t want to help with Klaus. Made no sense.
Loved it. Forward thinking on her part. But of course these people had to ruin it by trying to save Elena. I’m dumbfounded that the show is unintentionally making it so that everything would be better if their main girl was dead.
Is Tyler Undead or what? I’m confused and pissed off. It wasn’t enough for him to just be a werewolf? Now if any of the Salvatore’s vampires get bitten by a werewolf Tyler can save them? WTF is this show?
One thing consistent about the fandom is the shipping with Caroline and Stefan last year and now Bonnie and Matt this year. I like these pairs because they are platonic.
I guess male/female friendships can’t exist on this show.
I really like Bonnie/Matt because they know each other,and have been friends a long time. Matt isn’t so close to his friends anymore because of romance Caroline,Tyler and Elena. Bonnie is all he has left I hope they don’t mess it up with feelings.
I still don’t ship Matt and Bonnie romantically. Not right now anyway. I am just enjoying the friendship for now. Like you said, Matt needs a friend right now- not a lover.
How is a student able to work out in the school gym without a coach/gym teacher supervising. My little bro’s high school had a gym too (a tiny room in the basement) that was open after school a few days a week but there had to be someone supervising the kids. I guess adults are not needed in Mystic Falls. That is why they all get killed. I guess Matt sneaked in??
Lol at this show pretending that any of these kids go to school
Damon and Katherine got me hot there for a sec. Damn this show for teasing me. Why can’t *any* of my ships happen for more than 2 secs? I don’t even need them to last. Just for a little while show
Has Tyler asked about Matt since the premier? I know Matt offered to help Tyler and Caroline has asked about Matt. Does Tyler just not give a damn? Matt almost died for this guy? Uhh..ok Is Tyler to Matt what Elena is to Bonnie? Matt is like the best character on this show now. How did this happen? Btw, Bonnie is a super hero even without her powers.
This ep makes the whole John killing Pearl and Anna even more stupid, I thought he or Isobel was working with Katherine at the time. Why didn’t she forbid him from killing them? Or did she? Is that why she cut off his fingers and stabbed him? I am probably forgetting some details here.
I LOVE how Stefan tried to stop himself from killing Dana and that dude because Elena was watching but he didn’t hesitate killing anyone in months. I also LOVE how he didn’t rip their bodies apart.
UUUGGGGHHH! Why isn’t Elena drinking vervain? She hasn’t had her necklace in a couple of days now. I CAN’T with this character
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
I love how Klaus is talking about not wanting to be alone to his SISTER. At least, he was somewhat smart in this ep.
Oh great. Now I ship Jeremy/Katherine. Maybe I hate myself. What am I talking about? I obviously hate myself. I inflict this show on myself weekly
Eh, this ep was actually ok. It would have been better if the last ep was the premier. They just needed to add a random werewolf to experiment on in that ep. Plus, I wish they didn’t say there was a time jump. The time jump was completely useless and now Stefan gets to escape culpability for all the people he killed before this.
Yeah. They really screwed the pooch by saying that was his MO when 1) Hahaha, NO. 2) he hasn’t done it since, 3) and it was just a way to suggest how out of control he got and they can’t be bothered to back it up because it’s stupid.
Tyler is just a bad friend at this point. That’s it.
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
I don’t think they meant to do it, but there are certain parallels. Do you Stefan’s reaction before or after he drank his dad’s blood? Because I think it matches the before, despite Stefan being willing to die, much more than it matches the after. Then again, if we’re talking about degrees then their reactions are more compatible.
I don’t even know what I meant, tbh. I just got a vibe from the whole thing. What parallels did you see?
Yeah. They really screwed the pooch by saying that was his MO when 1) Hahaha, NO. 2) he hasn’t done it since, 3) and it was just a way to suggest how out of control he got and they can’t be bothered to back it up because it’s stupid.
I wonder if the network (or Censors of some kind?? Idk how it works for U.S tv) are getting in the way. The Supernatural writers/showrunners used to talk about how there were restrictions on how gory they could go. And sometimes, something they did for one ep would not be allowed for another ep and they wouldn’t be sure why.
I wonder if the network (or Censors of some kind?? Idk how it works for U.S tv) are getting in the way. The Supernatural writers/showrunners used to talk about how there were restrictions on how gory they could go. And sometimes, something they did for one ep would not be allowed for another ep and they wouldn’t be sure why.
That could be it, but one has to wonder if they really thought that Stefan was going to be able to rip people apart at 8pm on a Thursday. Doesn’t matter because canon is what canon does and the characters aren’t going to talk about being censored. So Stefan is, as per uze, lying about his level of control.
I think the parallel exists mostly in the initial reluctance to drink being overwhelmed and that Tyler’s reaction after drinking matched Stefan’s reaction before drinking, except Stefan was more resigned than Tyler’s general feeling of “oh okay, I’m going to be fine!” For me, it works more in terms of imagery than it does in being able to connect the two characters together, if that makes sense.
I thought it was pointless. Damon has no reason to want to kiss Katherine. And I could barely hear the dialogue.
Does Tyler just not give a damn?
I love how he complimented Caroline’s big heart like he doesn’t know Matt. He says Matt doesn’t have anyone. So why doesn’t he go be there for him? They were friends in season 1.
Why didn’t she forbid him from killing them? Or did she?
Nope, she wanted all the tomb vamps dead.
I also LOVE how he didn’t rip their bodies apart.
Oh, but he wouldn’t be able to stop if he got started on Elena. Rme.
I love how Klaus is talking about not wanting to be alone to his SISTER.
Lol. What’s dumber is that we don’t even know what being a Hybrid feels like. It’s not like he experiences things differently from regular vamps.
What’s dumber is that we don’t even know what being a Hybrid feels like. It’s not like he experiences things differently from regular vamps.
Exactly. I was with them with the whole Klaus is lonely thing for a while because I thought they would explain something about his experience. But it has been 5 eps now. Maybe they will explore this through Tyler?? That feels too late though
Damon has no reason to want to kiss Katherine.
I still don’t understand how Damon is completely over Katherine. I seriously don’t. He has been obsessed with her for 145 yrs. He is in love with her identical copy now. This is not like Stefan. He should not have this wall of separation between Elena and Katherine because his relationship with Katherine was real. How can he be so in love with the human version but be over the vampire version? I thought her decision to save his life and her declaration of love in the finale would have affected him in some way. How is she diff from Elena?
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
EW Tyler is immortal now! ugh! I totally missed that. smh I can’t.
Also how about Stefan being compelled. His reaction was brilliant. When he was begging Klaus not to do it, it made me think of the last time he was compelled (forgetting that Klaus did it to him previously …) as a human. When Katherine did it to him. I feel like he totally regressed back to the time Katherine stole his will and then proceeded to rape him.
This show will never go there but THANK PAUL FOR HIS ACTING CHOICES!
Also how about Stefan being compelled. His reaction was brilliant. When he was begging Klaus not to do it, it made me think of the last time he was compelled (forgetting that Klaus did it to him previously …) as a human. When Katherine did it to him. I feel like he totally regressed back to the time Katherine stole his will and then proceeded to rape him.
YES. Even if it was about his feelings for Elena (Or did it happen the first time Klaus compelled him simply to obey? Can’t remember.) I loved how wrecked he seemed by the prospect of not having control, in a way that was less about “blah blah blah excuses” and more about being able to make his own decisions.
I really need Jeremy to hate Damon or just really dislike him a lot.
He’s killed Jeremy, kidnapped him, and smashed his face (his beautiful face). He needs to stay away from Damon. Jeremy was not pissed off enough for me.
Where was Alaric what happened to protecting the humans one of the humans in his care was kidnapped.
Why is everyone using the word “dick” to describe everyone else? Do these people not know any other words? Why is Jeremy using the same word that Stefan used? They are different characters. Come on, show.
Jeremy was the first character I heard use the word. He used it in season 1 to describe Tyler. A lot. But Stefan’s using it, Alaric’s using it, Damon said Katherine’s not getting dick, it’s freaking ridiculous. It’s like the producers are giddy that they can get away with using this word.
I’m wondering what was supposed to be game changing about this episode. Tyler being turned into a hybrid? They know they haven’t explained anything about what that means, right? Other than invincibility there’s nothing to it.
Stefan’s emotions were turned off, but from the looks of next week’s episode, who knows how long that will last (wish it would last forever).
Or Michael being brought back? Maybe.
Sorta makes one wonder why Elena’s going to ask Jeremy to use his ability to reach out to Stefan? How is Lexi going to reach Stefan if Stefan’s emotions are off? Am I asking too many questions and expecting too much sense?
Pretty much all those things changed “the game”, I believe. Only Klaus isn’t in the next episode. Sorry, but wouldn’t he be turning werewolves asap? Just ask Tyler where he can find another pack.
All the things you mentioned + Matt being able to see Vicky + impending doom for Forwood are “game changers” according to this show. The real game changer, for me, was Matt being a real character again.
Maybe Elena asks Jeremy to contact some dead witch since compulsion seems pretty close to magic. Maybe a powerful witch can reverse it……Or she will continue to think that Stefan’s choices are the *only* issue and proceed accordingly. SMH. Please kill her off now, show.
Yeesh! What is this show? Elena is constantly being chipped away at. It is all very confusing. What is Elena? I don’t mean literally. I mean, what does she represent within this show’s universe? That question is easy to answer for shows like Buffy or Charmed but I am not sure about TVD. I guess the whole show is like the opposite of the shows I mentioned. Instead of women being the heroes, the whole show revolves around the idea of victimizing women and since Elena is the lead, she gets a lot of that. But at the same time, she seems to be prized so what is up with that?
A lot of people seriously think this ep was great. I am judging them all tbqh. It was just ok. It was better than the truly horrible shit that came before this. That is all. Look at your standards, people. Maybe I am being too harsh because I am not looking at this ep in a vacuum. I am looking at how it fits in with the first 4 eps.
With the exception of the Matt/Bonnie stuff, this episode was awful. It invalidates the point of the time jump and of the previous four episodes. There was no point in giving Stefan and Klaus a past. There was no real point in connecting them to Rebecca. There was no point to watch Klaus fail at creating hybrids because this episode could have given us all of that as a premiere. There was no point in listening to Elena tell Stefan to hold onto to their love in the premiere because that line would have fit in here. There was no point in Damon claiming that Stefan rips people apart because he blacks out or Elena saying that Stefan could be saved because he was holding onto to his humanity. There was no point in having us watch Stefan save Damon’s life and the show thinking that was a reason he could be saved. There was no point in Damon saying that he wants Elena to remember how she felt while Stefan was gone.
There was no point to any of this because this episode was set up to absolve Stefan of his sins, which the show could barely acknowledge his responsibility for anyway, by compelling him because it was the easy way out and it apparently didn’t occur to the writers that this way out would need to exist before Stefan spent the summer killing people. The fact that no one even suggested that Stefan was compelled before this episode is amazing. No one thought to consider that possibility until now when Elena watched him be compelled and only now, after he’s killed who knows how many people, only after he’s attempted to kill her is Elena talking about capturing him in a way that isn’t about saving him (though I’m sure that will come up later). I don’t know what Elena’s moral perspective is supposed to be or why I’m supposed to cheer her for this. So. Elena watches Stefan get compelled and because they established Bill being able to overcome it the episode before, she can now just push Stefan to overcome instead of trying to get the fuck out of there. She can hold on to one more thing despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
I won’t even go into the fact that Stefan’s emotions can’t be turned off anymore and how sad it is that they’re only being turned off now and maybe Klaus should have just compelled Stefan to forget Elena entirely, but whatever I hate the compulsion aspect of this too much to discuss how awful and retconny it is.
How hard would it have been for the writers to just let Stefan go? Keep him out of the picture for the first two episode and then reintroduce him with Klaus, after establishing that Stefan and Klaus are friendlier, go into the just made up backstory to explain the friendliness. Have people talk about killing Stefan. Don’t start in the summer and send Bonnie away. Let Elena put her feelings aside, even if only for a moment, to acknowledge that Stefan killing people is not a great tragedy for Stefan. Maybe make Klaus a real villain. Create and plan a real story that is meant to say something about the characters in it and not about how much you don’t care about the characters.
This storyline could have been so many things and instead it is a poorly-executed mess of half-assed writing and planning that reveals next to nothing about the characters expect for adding to the ways in which they are horrible. I’m tired of having to fanwank for a show that puts little to no energy in giving viewers a consistent canon to work with.
I won’t even go into the fact that Stefan’s emotions can’t be turned off anymore
I completely forgot that Stefan shouldn’t even have a switch anymore until I saw it on tumblr. And now I’m thinking about how the only way Stefan can empathize with people is by relying on an imaginary switch, and I’m kind of amused.
A lot of people seriously think this ep was great. I am judging them all tbqh.
I think most of these ppl belong to one of these 2 groups
1) Shippers of the show’s 3 bigs ships. Since 2/3 of each episode are either directly or indirectly devoted to these 3 ships, I can see why they think that every episode is awesome.
In a sense, Elena, Stefan, Damon, Caroline and Tyler have stopped to be individual character and become one half of their ship (Elena, Stefan and Tyler even more so than Caroline and Damon, imo). Everything that they do, everything that happens to them only matters with regard to how it affects their relationship.
2) People who are really into the main plot about Klaus/Originals/Mikael. Which, I guess, is fair enough. Wish I could feel the same way about it.
So when Matt said he and Bonnie were lifeguards last summer that would have been before season 1 started. So season 1 & 2 were one school year that they never went to school.
Did anyone else notice how not only is Klaus just this misunderstood lonely guy (who killed his whole family.) But now he is firmly positioned on team keep Elena alive. Which will probably make him a good guy.
It amazes me how everything on the show becomes about protecting Elena. That is the central mission of the show. Every bad guy is hurts Elena and then comes around to protecting Elena in some way – Damon, Rose, Elijah, Klaus. Elena is the centre of the TVD universe, basically. It is not “Save the Cheerleader, Save the World”. It is “Save Elena, Fuck the World” or maybe Elena is the world. Idk. She is basically everyone’s guiding principle. I swear this show would make so much more sense if it was all a product of Elena’s comatose mind. It would explain why everything is geared towards saving her but at the same time she is punished and the world would be better off without her. This could all be about her survival instinct vs. her death wish, her guilt over her parents’ death and her loneliness because of her condition. I mean, the whole show seems to be about loneliness as well.
So I watched it … and I liked it because of the Bonnie/Matt progression we get. They were flawless.
Now my feelings about certain aspects of the episode … probably not in the right order:
Klaus – really liked Joseph portrayal of him and he didn´t seem that stupid this episode, Even figured out that the Original Witch (Clever girl!) wanted to trick him. But this last scene with Rebekah was awful. And I agree with Tavi it seems that now he is squarely on Team Elena.
Where did he run of? Find another werewolve pack and turn all of them into Hybrids with his two blood bags of Elena (did he even take them with him?)
And that scene between him and Stefan at the end and him shouting “Turn it off” was pretty intense. It gave me shivers (in a good way) … probably because of the acting. That doesn´t mean that I liked the road the took with Klefan and this Ripper-Storyline. But I liked it.
Elena – I give up on her. Seriously. I can´t. First this awful scenes with Stefan which I don´t want to comment any further … and in the end this scene with Damon. I can´t again the same scheme. Dramatic music in the background. Dramatic dialogue which I want to mute out.
All what happened last episode was forgotten and the first thing she asked “Where were you?” – She seriously only lives for the Salvatores. I call it she will probably don´t care that he abused Jeremy … and I don´t think she will know of the kidnapping of Jeremy from him. If so she will probably don´t care.
Please just die and never come back again. Not even as a ghost.
Stefan – Not really much to say, but it was very contrived that only after Elena should watch him kill this teens he hesitated and especially that he only tried to kill himself after he was compelled to attack Elena. Way to go to show us that Elena´s life is more worth than any other life he took over the summer. #Fail
But I really liked that last scene. Thanks for blowing that forced Delena scene up. I hope we will get to see more of this attitude and he won´t be all emotional in the next episodes again.
But they probably killed Klefan and all their possibilities. shrug.
Caroline/Tyler – That´s how far it has come … I can´t seperate them anymore. Totally called that Tyler turns into a hybrid .., but I thought perhaps he would live because of his special family line or something like that and not because of Elena´s blood. Tyler knows what is going on with Matt but can´t talk to him. Only about him. Very good friend. eyeroll.
That´s what I recognized through all season 3 until now … many people spoke about Matt but only Jeremy and Bonnie reached out to him.
It seems like Tyler will be now more involved with Klaus and perhaps they will go the book route.
But I´m seriously asking myself what they want to do with him … perhaps they will kill him off after this hybrid storyline is over or change him back if this is possible.
Caroline didn´t do much this episode other than making out with Tyler and worrying about Tyler.
Yeah that was it pretty much.
Damon – Hm, what can I say about him. His roadtrip with Katherine didn´t interest me that much. Also him violating Jeremy was nothing new. And then his escape from the situation with Katherine … I really am rolling on the floor at this scene. “I wouldn´t have done it for you” – Seriously? I hope that isn´t a sentence he tells himself at night to build up his self esteem.
Because wasn´t he not there as he died trying to save her from the council or the last 150+ years trying all to bring her back. I saw it in season one and I remember it. Not to sure about Damon. But perhaps he wanted to hurt Katherines feeling, but that wouldn´t make any sense if he thinks that she is bitch with no feelings.
Yeh good to see his ass kicked the fifth times in a round. He will never learn. But how did he know that Elena was in this Hospital? Does he smell the Petrova fire miles away?
Talked already about that DE scene.
Bonnie/Matt – (Only putting them in one because of their flawlessness together) They were the heroes for me in this episode. Everything what they choose to be was amazing. I loved all their scenes and I especially loved that phone call. Also Matt was doing all of this for his friends (especially Tyler).
Matt reminded Bonnie that she doesn´t need her powers to be important … not like in House Guest where she thought that she was useless.
I really loved that rescuing scene and their history together … that was what I always imagined for them. Lifeguards ftw. So many emotions, they gave me them all.
Kat during that scene where she did CPR on him was flawless … I knew he wouldn´t die but I sensed all her desperation. It was so intense. And the faces. I´m a puddle of fangirling mess.
Sorry, but as I said Bonnie/Screentime/Matt is my OT3 for life and that is why it was so amazing for me.
There last scene was perfect. Bonnie calling him out on that bs he had done and trying to make him appreciate the normal life he only can have, him accepting it but saying it was worth it.
I agree with you, I also can´t ship them romantically bc of the rl with Caroline but I would be so into this if season one would have played out different.
Don´t know if it was only me but I saw a parallel (no that´s not the right word, but I will try to explain) between Bonnie/Matt and Tyler/Caroline.
On the one hand you have Tyler and Caroline where especially Tyler now embraces and enjoys the supernatural part of his life and seeing it as a perfect year coming for them and on the other hand you have Bonnie and Matt who struggle with all this trouble. Bonnie has accepted her path but that doesn´t mean she wouldn´t like it more to live a normal life and wants to show Matt the positive sides of the normal life.
Also them looking back in the past and their last summer and Forwood only looking into the future.
Hope I could expain myself in a good way, but Tylers reaction could also come hand in hand with his transition and him feeling superior.
Loved the Vicki/Matt scenes because I always thought that she was a awesome character and called the others out on their bs. It was really sad to see them say good-bye to eachother.
Katherine/Jeremy – Katherine doesn´t interest me that much anymore … she seriously needs a break or a quick death.
Jeremy and his attitude towards his two “companions” was pretty cool. I liked it. Especially the delivering of the line with the idiots. Don´t know but lol at this.
The last scene looked cool and I´m curious to know what they will do with Michael now that he is awake. I think he will need blood. Don´t like that probably Jeremy will be used as a blood donator, but on the bright side he has the ring on. So he is safe.
Don´t know about Katherine? But probably the Doppelgänger bonus will help her, we will see.
What I want to know is, why was it so easy to wake Michael? Did the witch who entombed him thought nobody would look for him because all vampires fear him so much?
Rebekah – Only some words. I liked her in the third episode much better tbh. Since last episode she seems like a totally other character. Don´t know what to think about her but we will probably see more of her.
That was it for the moment.
Oh I forgot to talk about Not-Now-Dana (I also called her death) … but I didn´t have 3rd-Period-Chad on my list. That was a surprise.
But seriously the moment I saw them, I knew they were dead.
The writers and their recurring guest stars … that´s a story that never ends well for the latter.
Lucy please stay in offscreenville. I would seriously take a livechat with Bonnie because the writers always love Kat´s face on a computer/mobile phone screen to her coming back and being killed of.
Rebekah – Only some words. I liked her in the third episode much better tbh. Since last episode she seems like a totally other character. Don´t know what to think about her but we will probably see more of her.
She came across as more capable in the flashbacks, despite not doing anything other than calling Stefan on being rude, than she has since she came back. I’ve no idea what her motivations are or why she’s still loyal to Klaus or interested in Stefan.
Lol! I would expect that more from Stefan than Damon.
What I want to know is, why was it so easy to wake Michael? Did the witch who entombed him thought nobody would look for him because all vampires fear him so much?
Maybe Michael can open his eyes, but he can’t get out.
What I found particularly refreshing about Matt drowning himself to both help his friends and see Vicki is that it wasn’t framed as entirely selfless or entirely selfish. He did what he thought he had to do, even though it was stupid and risky and potentially disastrous for Bonnie and everyone involved if his plan failed. And he knew that. He didn’t try to justify it. Bonnie didn’t justify it for him. But he also owned doing it in a positive. He didn’t regret it and however what he did last night is going to come back to bite him in the ass next week doesn’t bother me because it works. He’s going to go to Bonnie once he figures out something is wrong and that works as well. What I loved, slightly less than Matt’s faith in Bonnie and Bonnie voicing her pressures in an indirect way by saying that Matt doesn’t have to have them, was that all of this progressed naturally. It was trial and error and both aspects won out.
I was just reading the Price Peterson recap over at tv.com and he speculated that Stefan wasn’t really compelled.
Not only that, but he “compelled” Stefan to shut off his emotions entirely. The reason I put “compelled” in scare quotes was this: When Klaus compelled him, I took a good look at Stefan’s pupil and it didn’t dilate. Same thing happened with Bill Forbes when Damon failed to compel him. At the time I noticed it, and it looked like the same thing here. So yeah, I am suggesting that Stefan’s putting on a huge, elaborate charade in order to trick Klaus. He wants Elena to be genuinely afraid, much in the way they wanted her to believe Bonnie was genuinely dead that one time. Plus, Katherine was able to evade Klaus’ compulsion by drinking vervain. Wouldn’t Stefan have to be crazy to not have been drinking vervain just in case? I don’t have all the answers, only shaky theories. But still. I’m calling it as Stefan just being a good actor.
Would this be interesting? It would mean that Stefan is still a serial killer by his own choice no matter what his reasons are. It could work. Do you guys think there is any possibility that the show will do this?
I saw that too. That would be interesting. It could potentially require Stefan to address that he likes what he’s doing, on some level. He couldn’t be absolved since he’s faking. He’s still making the choice to kill (his choice alone since Klaus asked him to keep Elena safe, not to kill people at random). The show could do it but I’m not sure how well they can do it because the show thinks Stefan doing this for Elena and Damon is enough of a reason, but the fallout could possibly be less “OH WOE IS STEFAN.”
Matt’s pupils didn’t dilate when Katherine was compelling him at the end of Plan B. I don’t think they even dilated when she compelled him in Masquerade. He was even blinking in Plan B.
I don’t think Elena’s pupils dilated when Elijah and Damon compelled her either, but I might be wrong.
Someone asked why Vicky never sent a text to Matt before this and they asked why Vicky couldn’t just send her message in a text. *Sigh.* The text itself I don’t mind, since ghosts can move stuff around, why not keyspads? And I remember that one ghost on BTVS writing on the chalk board. But yes, why not before?
If this was a better show then the possible explanation could be that she wasn’t strong enough to maintain that level of contact before. But this is TVD. So she didn’t do it before because the writers failed to realize that it might have been interesting for Matt to be receiving text messages from Vicki and how that would have been hilarious because TECHNOLOGY but also wonderful because why not let them communicate.
If this was a better show then the possible explanation could be that she wasn’t strong enough to maintain that level of contact before. But this is TVD.
Every time one of us comes up with a simple explanation to a TVD screw up, I wonder how these people got their jobs. I mean seriously. Your explanation is perfect and makes sense.
It looks like she has only been able to move things or appear to people or anything after Jeremy’s resurrection. I am thinking that his resurrection is what is making it possible for ghosts to interact with the world of the living. Whatever spell brought him back must have poked holes in the barrier between the world of the dead and the world of the living. Regardless, it is not like she was breaking windows before Jeremy’s resurrection. This might all be new to her. Maybe it took her some time to learn to control her abilities. I agree it was weird that she didn’t send another text message. Maybe it was simply a product placement moment. I know that a lot of ghost stories have ghosts being able to manipulate electronic devices so the text itself didn’t faze me. What did bother me was that they didn’t show her *trying* to send another text msg and failing. Unless, she *wanted* Matt to attempt suicide so she could come back. Maybe that was part of her plan all along and Matt fell for it really quickly.
Unless, she *wanted* Matt to attempt suicide so she could come back. Maybe that was part of her plan all along and Matt fell for it really quickly.
That could be part of it. I’m curious as to how a ghost would know how to come back. That seems like information for the living. Matt has no reason to believe Vicki would want to hurt him. There’s also the chance that she has no idea that it could have negative effects on Matt. She’s just trying to come back.
I am thinking that his resurrection is what is making it possible for ghosts to interact with the world of the living. Whatever spell brought him back must have poked holes in the barrier between the world of the dead and the world of the living.
I love this theory!!!! It would certainly explain episode 7. The witches bringing Jeremy back tore a hole through the veil between the two worlds. So it could start out with Matt dying to be able to see a ghost, but then pretty soon the ghosts could just show up, and they become strong enough where anyone could see them. I’d love that.
So it could start out with Matt dying to be able to see a ghost, but then pretty soon the ghosts could just show up, and they become strong enough where anyone could see them. I’d love that.
This could work very well, especially if the ghosts are trying to be seen. Most of the ghosts seem to be Damon’s victims too. With the exception of Vicki, who Damon and Stefan share responsibility for.
Totally forgot to mention that they could be seeking revenge or something similar, since Damon is going to be attacked. But I guess that only works if all the ghosts attack him, so nevermind.
No no, it could still work. Let’s pretend this show is better and there’s an actual plan behind this. Ghosts start appearing only not all of them want to reconnect with loved ones. Some want revenge because maybe they were murdered or something so they start getting revenge on those responsible even if said responsible ones are now old, or maybe they go after the descendants. Then Bonnie could get wind that this is bigger than Jeremy and Matt. Maybe some ghosts become violent because they’re not supposed to be in this world for long.
This could be brilliant (there needs to be a list of commonly used phrases in the TVD fandom because “this could be brilliant” would be in the top 10 at least) if all the ghosts coming back weren’t being confined to one episode.
I agree, but i’m willing to give them a pass because they addressed Matt’s grief twice last season and both times were in reference or related to Caroline. Plus they failed to do a lot last season & they seem to have an okay handle on his grief (i could do with him being coldet to elena) now, so…yeah they probably should have dealt with this last year. They probably could have tied it with a better executed doppelganger storyline.
Okay, I have a feeling this is gonna be a long post.
First of all, what is – once again – up with the violence directed at female characters? I mean, the male characters got their fair share too, what with Tyler getting his neck snapped, Stefan being stabbed by Rebekah and Jeremy getting hit by Damon. But I somehow feel that the violence against the female characters is on another level? Idk. The female lead is attacked by her bf and basically manhandled/pushed around for the entire ep. Katherine is once again pushed by Damon and, according to the show, this is a good thing since Katherine is the ‘evil’ one and a bad influence on him or sth. I’m sick of seeing this. And then there’s this random scene of Klaus telling 3rd period Chad to beat Dana to death if she moves or sth? What is this? Why does this scene exist?
Soo … let’s start with Damon/Katherine/Jeremy/Anna which, for me, was probably the most boring part of the entire ep. There’s nothing remotely interesting about D/K interaction, it’s always about Katherine being all extra-seductive and Damon rejecting her, acting as if he didn’t spend the last 160 years obsessed with her. Btw, is it just me or is ND’s portrayal of Katherine getting worse? Or maybe it’s just the bad writing that makes her character look so pathetic. Also, I don’t understand why Damon was in this SL. What reason could Katherine possibly have for taking him on this road trip? Makes no sense to me. I enjoyed Jeremy and Anna, though.
Michael – I have a feeling that this SL will be very boring. Of course waking him up will turn out to be a bad idea. Of course he will try to kill all vampires. Of course he won’t kill Damon, Stefan, Caroline and Katherine. He probably won’t kill Klaus either because a Salvatore has to do that. He will probably end up killing Rebekah, considering that she is a female guest star on this show. (Btw, the final scene in the crypt, when Katherine opened the tomb, gave me BtVS vibes for some reason.)
Klaus – For some reason, I really liked his line “There are ways to make you suffer” when he pushed Elena down the hall. It just was so … energetic. Idk. Klaus works for me when he has these energetic moments. But his final scene with Rebekah? Ugh. And him hightailing it out of there once he heard of Michael? Some kind of villain he is. And imo it’s all on the writing. JM is making the best of the crap he’s given, methinks.
Elena was – once again – not a character. She is either one half of Stelena or one half of Delena. (Although, to be fair, to a certain extent, the same can be said about Damon and Stefan – especially Stefan, I think.) Oh, and of course Elena’s blood is magical.
Matt and Bonnie – I enjoyed their scenes. In general, it’s always good thing to get interaction between characters who are not romantically involved. It’s so rare on this show. But I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers included this SL because it will eventually take a romantic turn? Because that’s what this show does? I hope not, but who knows with these writers.
One of my favourite moments of the entire episode was the moment before Matt jumped into the pool. It was truly chilling and it also worked for me on an emotional level. It made me care about the character, think about how he got to this point …
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done. I guess it’s an unpopular opinion but I kind of hope that this compelled!Stefan stuff will be over by episode 12. I just don’t think this SL will be interesting/entertaining to watch at all for more than a handful of episodes. What’s the point of a character who can’t make any real choices? But we will see …
Tyler and Caroline – I didn’t really care tbh. I really like them individually, but together? No. For me, one of the worst moments of the episode was when Tyler complimented her on her big heart and acted as if he had never been friends with Matt.
Btw, I recall a lot of shippers claiming that Forwood was the only relationship on the show where the girl is stronger than the guy. Well, that didn’t last long. Having said that, I’m pretty sure that Tyler will be “cured”, although it makes no sense since he *did* actually die. But death has no meaning on this show, so there’s that. The only thing that makes me question this is that the writers may want to go the Forwood is eternal route.
I guess that’s everybody? Oh, Rebekah. She is getting worse each episode. Liked her in the 20s flashback. Now? Not so much. But I’m pretty sure she will be killed off soon. – So, that’s it. I really don’t want to bring up S/E and D/E. All I can say is it was as expected.
Oh, and lol at Alaric for wanting to protect the humans but not being there when shit hits the fan. The show loves to undermine its characters.
This is another example of the writing teams limitations and laziness. Didn’t the council put vervain in the water supply? Why was Klaus able to compel Dana and Chad? Why did no one think to call the Sheriff or Alaric? Convenience.
Didn’t the council put vervain in the water supply? Why was Klaus able to compel Dana and Chad? Why did no one think to call the Sheriff or Alaric? Convenience.
Putting vervain in the water supply was Bill’s idea and Damon ran Bill out of town. Elena thought it was a good way to keep Damon in check. However, I don’t think that Liz would go with a plan that would give her daughter acid burns each time she came into contact with water in the town. Matt said that Liz asked him to put vervain in the coffee occasionally. So even that is not a regular thing.
Bonnie *should* have called Alaric when she was looking for Alaric. Alaric lives with Jeremy and seems to have taken over Jenna’s duties as their guardian.
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done. I guess it’s an unpopular opinion but I kind of hope that this compelled!Stefan stuff will be over by episode 12. I just don’t think this SL will be interesting/entertaining to watch at all for more than a handful of episodes. What’s the point of a character who can’t make any real choices? But we will see …
Speaking as someone who wishes I could just do away with how much I love Stefan’s sociopathic ass, I agree so much. There’s so much potential there, but he has to, at the end of it all, be able to be with Elena and since the writers have this skewed vision of Elena, he can’t be anything less than…a non-person contained in the “perfect” boyfriend. Because this storyline hasn’t really taught us that much about Stefan as a character, not from him, at least.
I’m not sure how interesting this storyline can be if what we’re going to see is Stefan falling in love with Elena despite himself. Or doing things that Damon did in s1. Which, ugh why couldn’t he have just stayed out of town with this behavior? Why couldn’t they have just said that Stefan turned? You’re right, what is interesting about watching Stefan do all of this stuff if we know he’s not technically responsible in the verse of the show? Ugh, this storyline could have been so much more than what it is but the writers are too locked in being lazy.
Tyler died, but, like you said, he became stronger. I don’t think the show views Jeremy in the same league as Damon/Stefan/Tyler. By that I mean, I doesn’t have any powers, isn’t anyone’s protector, they do not treat him the way they treat those three. So I hardly count him getting hurt as evening things out. I’m not saying that I want to say as clearly as I want to, so I hope you kind if get it. Lol.
Nina’s portrayal is definitely getting worse. Part of it is her acting, and I think a big part of it is the writing. I’m sure Nina isn’t sure where the heck they plan on taking Katherine. Plus they’re not writing Katherine the way they wrote her at the beginning of season 2. Back then, people came to Katherine, people called Katherine. Now she’s trailing after them.
Now that you’ve brought it up, I’m counting down Rebekah’s last days. She will be the casualty to show us how ~dangerous Michael is.
I really liked his line “There are ways to make you suffer”
Is that what he said? I could not for the life of me hear him. I also couldn’t hear what he was saying to Stefan before he compelled him. Something about a summer day?
But I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers included this SL because it will eventually take a romantic turn?
God, I hope not. What has me even more scared than the fact that they had a lot of scenes together this episode is the inclusion of their picture together on Caroline’s phone. I need a Bonnie/Jeremy scene stat.
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done.
I just rewatched the ep and think I worded the part about D/K wrong? I think what bothered me wasn’t just the pushing but also his line “You just don’t do it for me anymore.” I don’t know how to explain it, it just rubs me the wrong way. I guess part of it is that I don’t like how we’re supposed to see past all the awful stuff Damon does and, at the same time, are supposed to be agree with him judging Katherine.
I don’t think the show views Jeremy in the same league as Damon/Stefan/Tyler. By that I mean, I doesn’t have any powers, isn’t anyone’s protector, they do not treat him the way they treat those three. So I hardly count him getting hurt as evening things out. I’m not saying that I want to say as clearly as I want to, so I hope you kind if get it. Lol.
Yes, I get what you are saying and I agree actually.
Is that what he said? I could not for the life of me hear him.
On rewatch it sounded more like “Can’t wait to make you suffer”. So I don’t know. The music on this show is way too loud. (Plus, English isn’t my first language, so I don’t always understand 100 % of what is being said anyway. Something which, coming to think of it, isn’t necessarily a bad thing when it comes to this show, lol.)
(Plus, English isn’t my first language, so I don’t always understand 100 % of what is being said anyway. Something which, coming to think of it, isn’t necessarily a bad thing when it comes to this show, lol.)
Why oh why did Caroline have a picture of Stefan and Elena on her phone? When did this hanging out occur? The only times Stefan and Elena relax is when they go to cabins in the middle of nowhere. Why did it look like a yearbook couples photo?
Lmao. I’m wondering why she had a picture of Matt and Bonnie instead of Bonnie and Jeremy. Lord, Lord, Lord I do not want the show to go there. We know Matt and Bonnie are interacting next episode, but they don’t seem to be interacting in 3.07. That’s a good thing because this show sucks and hates friendships, especially ones involving people of the opposite sex so when you see said people interact you start getting paranoid because this freaking Fandom will ship a guy and a girl if they so much as smile with each other.
This show’s aversion to platonic male/remale relationships is disturbing.
I’ve ficced out a scenario where Matt and Bonnie have an awkward moment and then they’re both like “This is ridiculous” and there’s no subtext to the moment, they both just think it’s ridiculous in a “we’re friends and that’s cool” way. If the show did that then I’d be cool with it, but they’re probably going to take them to a romance place without explaining why and it will be bad because this show is bad and doesn’t know how to do anything else other than rush romantic relationships.
This fandom and shipping is ridiculous. People don’t even have to look at each other. There are Klaus/Caroline shippers. If we checked there are probably Elijah/Matt shippers, to pull something out of thin air. I don’t have a problem with crack shipping, but this fandom sometimes.
An awkward moment would be fine (though I of course would prefer there be no moment at all) after Bonnie temporarily breaks up with Jeremy or something, but this show doesn’t do awkward moments.
Most of them are in a rough draft stage and I hate editing, so I stare at them until I can’t anymore. It’s all very anxiety based since I’ve started looking back at my old fic and realized that a lot of it was pretty sloppy.
There need be no moment between them, but if there’s going to be I’d rather it was over before it could begin. If only this show took itself less seriously. There should be so many awkward moments on this show leading to moments of hilarity or angst or just fun times and instead everyone is intense and grim!dark.
There are Elijah/Caroline shippers.
Well. This is new.
I honestly don’t understand most of the popular Caroline pairings.
Most of them are in a rough draft stage and I hate editing, so I stare at them until I can’t anymore.
Lol.
I don’t understand most of her pairings either. I wouldn’t put her with any guy on canvas as they’re written, but if I even had to consider one I would choose Jeremy, and that’s solely because Jeremy’s human so there wouldn’t be pushing and he wouldn’t make her cry like Matt. Then again if he’d said “What the hell?” to her like he did to Anna, the writers might’ve made her cry.
I just read a comment harping on Matt for not naming Tyler and Caroline as people who’s lives have changed because they have it harder than he does, yet the poster doesn’t mention how Tyler basically wrote Matt off in the episode, saying instead that Ty/Caro are better without him. Sometimes I wonder why I take this Fandom seriously.
Tyler may have it harder than Matt does, but both Caroline and Tyler (less so than Caroline) have support systems. Matt is even in there support system but, like you said, Tyler doesn’t care anymore that Matt was once his best friend (and he basically made Caroline’s concern into something that made her better, instead of the fact that they’re all friends and they should all be concerned about each other, and proceeded to make out with her and ignore her concern).
I stopped taking Tyler/Caroline seriously when one of their more popular fans compared Matt to Chuck Bass.
lulz. How bad could this Chuck Bass be? I’ve only watched a handful of GG eps and one of those happened to be the one where Chuck sold his gf for a hotel or something. My memory is sketchy on that one and I don’t think I watched the whole ep. The other one happened to be the one where Chuck punched glass next to his gf’s head and the glass cut her face. I only watched the second one because the girl I used to discuss TVD with, used to post about GG on TWOP too. She got temporarily banned for going off on Chuck apologists on the GG forum so I had to check out what all the fuss was about. I get that both those acts are HORRIBLE but is he any worse than the guys on TVD? Matt was psychologically abusive to Caroline. I don’t think that it was to an extreme degree or that it was deliberate but a lot of what he did played on her insecurities. A lot of their relationship involved her seeking his validation/approval and him withholding it. Even the nice things he said to her were mostly backhanded compliments. DAMON. Tyler attempted to rape a girl in the pilot. STEFAN. I think Jeremy is the only one who hasn’t been a raging asshole to a woman…maybe(??)
Chuck tried to rape two different girls in the pilot of GG and the suggestion was made that he had in fact raped girls before. He is emotionally abusive and manipulative towards Blair, constantly telling her that she needs to get down on his level and that his level is her level. He sold her for a hotel and then shamed her when she tried to help him, not knowing that he’d sold her. They had a relationship in s1, behind Nate’s back and when Nate found out, Chuck slut-shamed Blair again. He is constantly breaking up her relationships. In s3 (I believe) he had very questionable sex with another girl on the show, hid her in his bathroom and basically told her that she couldn’t talk about it because he wanted to be back together with Blair. He’s regularly described Blair as his, tied her self identity into his love for her.
I’m not saying Chuck is worse than Stefan or Damon, but I wouldn’t call anything Matt’s done to Caroline on par with Chuck’s behavior. Matt was a dick to Caroline and her insecurities were this huge thing between them, as were his lingering feelings for Elena and I feel that the both of them are better off without each other, but I don’t think what Matt did in his relationship with Caroline is comparable. Not even a little bit.
Jeremy has definitely been the least gross towards women on the show though.
Chuck has daddy!issues and Nate Archibald!eternal male model is his best friend issues. That’s the excuse that his fangirls use for him.
I almost want to call him worse than Damon because, at least every once in awhile Damon acknowledges that he’s horrible, but those moments don’t mean anything in the long term.
Nope (he’s actually go that backhanded confidence thing going), but in the earlier seasons of the show it was suggested that Nate being his best friend and being with Blair hurt him and Nate was supposed to be this perfect guy that Chuck would never be. Like Nate was posed as a bad friend (even though he’s actually the best friend on GG) when it came to Chuck.
It doesn’t make sense because the only person Chuck’s daddy issues effect is Blair and it’s always negatively and he’s just really gross and part of that is who he is and another part of that, seems to be the writers not getting that the things he does are horrible.
I am rewatching the ep right now because I legit zoned out through large chunks of it the first time. I am only half way through and already I found 2 big things I missed. I can’t believe there was a time I used to pay such close attention to this show that every little detail was seared to my memory
1) Elena didn’t run because Klaus told Stefan to break her back if she tried. That is why he told her to run as time was running out because they had nothing left to lose by that point. And that is why she hesitated.
2) Matt went back to get the keys to his truck so he and Bonnie could go find Jeremy. When he got to the gym or the locker room, he found a trail of his clothes leading to the pool. His keys were at the bottom of the pool. Vicki sent that text msg right when he was going to get into the pool to retrieve his keys. She basically told him to do what he did in her ghost way.
Also, Rebekah is basically Caroline. No wonder she got over the whole getting murdered by her brother thing in 2 secs. And Rebekah said that Klaus had been breaking Stefan’s neck all afternoon as pay back for his betrayal. Plus, when Caroline woke up she was rubbing her neck. Maybe a snapped neck is how you render a vampire unconscious.
Re: Elena not running; why didn’t they try knocking Stefan the fuck out? Give him a good quick blow to the head and then hightail it out of there.
Maybe a snapped neck is how you render a vampire unconscious.
This was actually my personal head!canon before the show did it. Snapping the neck would at least temporarily, for a vampire at least, shut down higher brain function.
I can’t believe I said “for a vampire at least” as if that isn’t how most everyone dies on this show.
Re: Elena not running; why didn’t they try knocking Stefan the fuck out? Give him a good quick blow to the head and then hightail it out of there.
Elena was alone with him. She wouldn’t have been able to knock him out by himself. Bonnie was dealing with Matt’s suicide attempt. Caroline was stuck with Tyler and Rebekah elsewhere.
He could have run into the wall. Snapped his own neck. He tried to stab himself, he could have snapped his own neck. I’m not laying the blame to Elena in that scene. He could have done something more.
Oh yes. *Stefan* could have done something. That is why I was hating on him my comment below. Elena did what she could and it worked half way. He did resist and slow himself down while chasing her. But why did it even get to that point? He had 20 mins during which he basically kept talking. Why didn’t he ask her to snap his neck if he couldn’t do it himself?
No. I’m saying that Stefan should have done something to hurt or disable himself in order to give Elena time to escape. Elena, while she did talk to him about something that was only an idea at that point, didn’t approach him so she did attempt to protect herself. Even if her dialogue sometimes betrayed her actions.
Elena probably forgot about Klaus’ threat and was just standing there because she was worried about Stefan. Is that why Stefan told her it doesn’t matter at one point?
She didn’t forget. When Stefan told her to run, she said something like, “but he said”. Stefan told her it doesn’t matter because the clock was winding down so he was about to kill her anyway.
God! Watching the Stelena scenes after realizing that all Elena could really do was try and talk him out of it or coach him is making me hate Stefan more. Basically, trying to get him to try and fight is all she could do and all he did was scream at her that her ideas were dumb. Oh and he told her that she is DEAD like 10 times. The only good Salvatore is a dead Salvatore.
The way the scene plays out becomes really useless considering her options for escape were non-existant. Like I’m trying to think of a way for the scene to play out and I’m thinking silence on Stefan’s part would have been better than telling her repeated that he wouldn’t be able to stop himself from killing her. It’s like the writers wanted to stress how ridiculous the situation was without rectifying it.
Like Alta said before, it was basically a string of scenes that had Stefan explaining why he wouldn’t stop himself from attacking her, only to erase his will, both times. This fucking show man. It needs a plot overhaul. Like dead Salvatores.
Maybe the point was that Stefan really really *wanted* to eat her like Klaus said but he was justifying it by saying that he couldn’t stop. Maybe that is the reason for the stupid 20min time limit in the story. Stefan will take any excuse that allows him to feel less responsible. Unfortunately for him, Elena kept screaming at him that it was his responsibility to fight his urges and not kill her. If she had kept quiet, I think he would have killed her without resistance and blamed Klaus entirely.
I don’t think we are supposed to take anything that comes out the Salvatores’ mouths seriously. They are lying liars who lie. Damon kept going on and on about how he is over Katherine and yet he did everything she asked including bashing Jeremy’s head. It took him *hours* to ask *one* question about the mission he signed up for blindly. He only stopped following her because he found out that Elena was going to DIE. Damon’s words said that he loved Elena and was over Katherine. His actions, on the other hand, said that he is into both of them.
Maybe the point was that Stefan really really *wanted* to eat her like Klaus said but he was justifying it by saying that he couldn’t stop. Maybe that is the reason for the stupid 20min time limit in the story. Stefan will take any excuse that allows him to feel less responsible. Unfortunately for him, Elena kept screaming at him that it was his responsibility to fight his urges and not kill her. If she had kept quiet, I think he would have killed her without resistance and blamed Klaus entirely.
That’s what I’m going to take from it. I don’t know if that’s what the show wants us to take. Ugh, I wish the show hadn’t introduced the idea of fighting compulsion. Or compulsion at all into the storyline. It makes everyone look bad. It makes Stefan look like…well it makes Stefan look like who he is, but yeah everyone looks bad in the end.
I think we’re not meant to take Damon seriously because he’s emotional and he protects himself emotionally with his lies. But he doesn’t lie, so much, about his actions and his motivations.
I think we’re meant to take Stefan seriously so they can pull the rug out from under the viewer but for some reason not Stefan (because they haven’t explored Stefan’s motivations outside of his love for Damon and Elena, since season one), unless the storyline is heading in the direction of Stefan taking responsibility for and owning his actions. Not just as an idea, but in his own words. Which it doesn’t seem to be so who knows.
Hmmm, maybe. But they also made a point of showing us Stefan kill without remorse for 4 eps before this. Plus, the three other male characters in the main/regular cast, who were in the school, went through something that fulfilled their deepest desires. Tyler got to be a Hybrid so he won’t have to transform at will like he wanted. Klaus got to make a successful Hybrid. Matt got his only family back. I am thinking that Stefan’s transformation (having the switch off) follows the same pattern. He *wanted* to kill without culpability or any remorse and now he can.
unless the storyline is heading in the direction of Stefan taking responsibility for and owning his actions. Not just as an idea, but in his own words. Which it doesn’t seem to be so who knows.
What I am trying to say is that there is a small chance that they are going to do this. They will half-ass it, of course, but maybe maybe maybe there will be an attempt.
I spent part of the afternoon thinking up fall out situations that ended in Stefan’s death, Stefan not being invited back to group meetings anymore, or the show finally acknowledging that he’s a villain and that eventually leading to his death. Basically Stefan died a lot and he wasn’t a good guy 97% of the time.
I doubt he’ll die, but if he admits that he is awful and that he knows it, and no one stops him, then I will be less upset than I might eventually end up being since you know, it’s still TVD and there’s only 10% hope.
I am thinking that Stefan’s transformation (having the switch off) follows the same pattern. He *wanted* to kill without culpability or any remorse and now he can.
I definitely think that Stefan wants to kill without remorse, but I’m not sure this is the way the show should have went about it. Because, like you said, in the previous 4 episodes Stefan was killing without remorse, but we had Damon, Elena, and Klaus telling us that Stefan didn’t want to and couldn’t control himself to boot, so I’m not sure that the parellel, of dudes getting what they want works because with the exception of of Tyler, everyone else made active decisions to get what they wanted, even if Matt’s decision was incidental. He didn’t know he’d get to keep seeing Vicki.
So I agree that Stefan wants to be able to kill without remorse, but the previous four episodes weren’t building up to this moment. I don’t know. There are a lot of contradictions within the show, for what we’re coming up with and what actually happened.
because with the exception of of Tyler, everyone else made active decisions to get what they wanted,
It seemed to me that they presented Tyler’s transition as a choice even though they didn’t have to and it didn’t even make much sense to. Caroline objected to him taking the blood and Klaus simply offered it to him. He didn’t force the vial down Tyler’s throat.
Do you think Tyler would have chosen death? Are the consequences real enough to him for him to choose death? I’m not sure. So that’s why I described his decision as less of an active choice than Klaus’s scheme or Matt drowning himself.
Do you think Tyler would have chosen death? Are the consequences real enough to him for him to choose death?
No, he wouldn’t have which is why I was surprised that they even went that route. Why have Caroline say anything at that point? Did she want him dead? Is being a vampire that bad?
Maybe this is why I got the vibe that Tyler and Stefan were similar in some way in this ep. Their choices were extremely limited and tough but they were still there. It is like that saying – Between a rock and a hard place.
It just occurred to me that Caroline telling Tyler to resist taking Elena’s blood, even though it has been established that transitioning vampires can’t resist the sight of blood, is a little bit like Elena telling Stefan to resist compulsion. Just on a much smaller scale. Both girls were telling the guys to resist things that are extremely difficult to resist. Idk.
It’s actually pretty amazing how easy it seems to both of them to ask Tyler and Stefan to resist something that has proven irresistible, whatever Bill’s abilities are he didn’t wake up with them one day, not because they shouldn’t have but because when they told them to resist it wasn’t with a “I know it’s difficult tone” but a “you need to not do this” tone, which for Elena made sense since her options were telling Stefan to try or death, but Caroline knows how hard it is and the writers have failed to go into how much her life has changed. It doesn’t make sense that she would basically encourage him to die. Especially since it wasn’t going to be easy.
Yeah, I don’t think Tyler would have chosen death. He has no idea what a Hybrid is aside from the fact that they turn at will. So why not become one? As a matter of fact why did Caroline want him to choose death?
Lol. Klaus compelled Stefan to “turn it off”. He didn’t say anything about *keeping* it off. Stefan is basically where Damon was in season one. Damon had his switch turned off back then too but he was still considered responsible for his actions because he could choose to turn it on. Elena gave him a reason to make an effort ….which wasn’t very successful. Lol
At this point, I’d take the storyline where Stefan was keeping it off (if the show goes there) because he could no longer deal with feelings anything. Even though we haven’t seen him feeling all that much. It would be preferable and would at least be an act that Stefan was choosing that could not be twisted into empathy by him or by others. He didn’t have to keep his feelings off but he chose to because he was sick of holding back or holding on because the act of not feeling anything wasn’t as easy as not feeling anything.
But the show will probably go with him being compelled all the wya.
I’d take the storyline where Stefan was keeping it off (if the show goes there) because he could no longer deal with feelings anything.
Much like the Caroline/Bill story, this whole thing could have worked for me if they had only made it *slightly* different. It would have worked for me if it was Stefan’s choice to turn the switch off. Everything in the ep could have worked out the same. The only diff would have been that he couldn’t fight the compulsion because, unlike Bill, he hasn’t had any practice. So he is standing there yelling at Elena for like 20 mins. As the clock is running down and he realizes that he won’t/can’t stop, he turns off his switch so he won’t have to feel anything about what he is about to do. Just as he bites her, Klaus walks in to stop him because he needs Elena’s blood. I am not saying it would have been great. I am just saying that it would have been good enough. As in, it would have met my bare minimum standard.
It would have worked for me if it was Stefan’s choice to turn the switch off. Everything in the ep could have worked out the same. The only diff would have been that he couldn’t fight the compulsion because, unlike Bill, he hasn’t had any practice. So he is standing there yelling at Elena for like 20 mins. As the clock is running down and he realizes that he won’t/can’t stop, he turns off his switch so he won’t have to feel anything about what he is about to do. Just as he bites her, Klaus walks in to stop him because he needs Elena’s blood.
This would have actually been loads better and probably more interesting than his weak and aborted efforts to kill himself. Still not the best way to go about the storyline, but it would have worked more than the compulsion turning off his feelings. Not only would it have been his choice, but it could have potentially explained why Elena would be unable to convince him to turn his feelings back on later. Like, why should love convince you if you’ve shut those emotions down by your own choice?
I just forced myself to get through the final Delena scene with the volume on. Did Elena seriously ask where Damon was? I don’t know what to make of that. Is he like her security blanket or something? She needs him now by her side always?? Totally confused. Damon wasn’t there but *all* her other friends were there. I’ve never seen her ask where Bonnie was in a crisis. There was nothing he could do during the sacrifice to stop Klaus. If he had stuck around and been at the school, there would have been nothing he could do against Klaus again. Plus, Damon held on to Elena’s knee or thigh waaay too long. Despite all this, it was actually one of the more tolerable DE moments.
Did Elena seriously ask where Damon was? I don’t know what to make of that. Is he like her security blanket or something? She needs him now by her side always?? Totally confused.
Watching that scene, I was like “Okay Elena, I know his life revolves around you but sometimes he needs breaks and it’s not like Klaus sent a mass text stating his intentions. Calm down!”
Plus like you said, every single one of her other friends was there. If this was Buffy, even if she’d been hurt, even if she’d headed home, there would have been some line about her checking on Bonnie or Matt or Tyler. Does she even know if they’re alive? Did she even ask?
It felt oddly genuine despite the dialogue and the situation and the expectations. Which is rare for Delena scenes. The genuineness not the ridiculousness.
Watching that scene, I was like “Okay Elena, I know his life revolves around you but sometimes he needs breaks and it’s not like Klaus sent a mass text stating his intentions. Calm down!”
Exactly. Plus, *not* being stuck together 24/7 turned out to be the better choice because it enabled Damon to get info he could use against Klaus. This is like how the whole show is about keeping Elena alive but the world would be better off with her dead. I fail to see the advantage in both scenarios – Live Elena or Delena.
It made me rethink Stelena actually. Someone had a theory a while back that Elena’s decision to stay with the Salvatores was a direct result of her parents’ deaths. Like they were the much harder to kill replacements. I guess they are her protection and her family in her mind. Maybe the more adults she loses in her life, the more attached she gets to them. So if she can’t get Stefan, she will at least try to hold on to Damon. It is different from Jeremy because she is responsible *for* Jeremy. I guess the Salvatores are responsible *for* her???? It might explain why she was so desperate to get Alaric to live with them. She really needs a family. Alaric is pretty new though and more breakable. Idk. Just speculating because that line really threw me even though she said the same thing the 2 eps before. But that time she was completely alone. This time she had Bonnie and Matt running around trying to find a way to save her.
This is also making me think about why Elena dumped Matt and rejected Damon but chose Stefan. I think that maybe, more than anything else, it is because both Matt and Damon would have required constant support from her but Stefan gave her support most of the time. Again, idk. I am just trying to get the show.
I like that theory. Of course it only works if Elena ignores how they hurt her. Which she does. And I’ve never seen her be responsible for Jeremy. But I like this thought of Elena clinging to the Salvatores as the only adult figures she can count on (though she never paid much attention to Jenna). If only.
Alta, I just looked at your blog. I liked your response to that person who said that Elena deserved to be slapped around. ITA that the writing choices these writers make says something about them.
Also, it amazes that so many people continually complain about how the Salvatores have changed for Elena and how it has screwed up Damon but very few people complain about how the Salvatores has ruined Elena waaaay more.
I completely agree about the lack of complaint on how the Salvatores have changed Elena.
My problems with Elena are many, but it’s gotten to the point where I can’t not think about the the producers’ motives when they write her. I don’t think it comes from a place of caring that much about Elena.
For you Alta,
So I have a spoiler that will make your day there is a casting call for episode 10 ABBY BENNETT 38-44, African-American, a beautiful but troubled woman who is burdened by the secrets of her past that led her to abandon her daughter Bonnie. As determined and fiery as any Bennett woman…GUEST STAR, RECURRING.
So maybe she is the witch that entombed Mikael in the 90’s.
I just made your day didn’t I. I fangirled all over my house I may have looked a little crazy.
Yes you did! I was waiting for them to cast her dad, and I’m blindsided with this! I would love it if she was the witch who entombed Mikael! I keep reading the casting side over and over.
Just Another Judicious Podcast 
My last words would be: kill yourself!
Bonnie and Matt …. for me what is Bonnie/Tyler!?
Officially jumping ship?
:[ … Bonnie and Matt have actual history! I don’t ship them romantically … >_> … yet.
It’s problematic, because Matt will have been with all of his childhood female friends. I just love that Bonnie is there for him and that they remember their past and OD SWEET LORD THE TALKING! *weeps*
It’s problematic, because Matt will have been with all of his childhood female friends. I just love that Bonnie is there for him and that they remember their past and OD SWEET LORD THE TALKING! *weeps*
I know what you mean! Full disclosure: I shipped them in the books and thought the show would go there in s1, before Matt/Caroline happened. But I can’t ship them now. I just want them to be best buds who can always talk to each other and call each other out for the little things.
When it was happening I thought of you and I was squeeing so hard when Matt mentioned lifeguards! it’s so perfect! Matt was trying to look out for his sister and Tyler! and Bonnie is looking out for everyone else! 😥
THEY WERE TALKING AND NOT ABOUT ELENA AND HER BULLSHIT! BUT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ELENA’S BULLSHIT AND THEY WERE CALLING IT BULLSHIT! BEST EPISODE THIS SEASON! :’]
I love how Matt took initiative and tried to help Bonnie when she couldn’t reach Jeremy (or Damon).
It’s amazing how functional and productive they can make the characters when they try.
Yes! This was a pleasant surprise. I was so pessimistic coming into this ep
Oh, I thought you were shipping them romantically. Lol.
I loved the talking!
I can’t because of all the baggage Matt has with Bonnie’s friends. Platonic relationship FTW! \o/ They both can benefit from this. And at the end of the scene he told her to leave so he could say good bye to his sister. He wasn’t begging her to use her magic to help him say good bye. I LOVE IT!
Oh and when he thought she was still lurking around! *flails*
Also remember when Buffy told Angel to close his eyes after he opened that hell sucking portal. Yeah GPOY!
My last words would be, “Calm yourself!” and then I would run.
Lmao.
I’m jumping ship too. Never thought I would ship Matt and Bonnie. Jeremy is too busy playing with dead girlfriends and Damon is too busy being a pussy.
I am about to watch the show now. Your poll is not encouraging at all. From a scale of 1-10, how vomit inducing is this ep?
The end is kind of so I say maybe 5 towards the end lol. But Stefan makes it better lol.
I just focused on Bonnie and Matt and nothing hurt!
I agree with Olu. I enjoyed the episode solely because of Matt and Bonnie. I couldn’t believe the amount of scenes they got together and the stuff they talked about. They even had a closing scene!
The episode starts out great, but then it delves into Stelena (Lord does it delve into Stelena), freaking Katherine, a small bit of Delena that was no less headache-inducing, and Tyler/Caroline were them.
I enjoyed the episode solely because of Matt and Bonnie. I couldn’t believe the amount of scenes they got together and the stuff they talked about. They even had a closing scene!
So much more happened with them than I was expecting and all of it was glorious.
I’d give it a 37 on the Stelena front, a 6 on the Katherine/Jeremy/Damon front, a 8 on the Delena front, and a 0 on the Matt/Bonnie front.
My feelings about Tyler/Caroline are so negative that I’m going to refrain from rating them. But they were more lame than vomit inducing.
Didn´t watch the episode because my internet connection is so lame.
But my last words would be “Give me head start of 5 minutes because you love me so much” and then RUN,
I see Matt and Bonnie were awesome … I need to watch
the Stefan and Elena stuff was ridiculously stupid Elena really deserves to die at this point.
The Damon and Elena stuff was bad too and why wouldn’t Bonnie and Matt be wodering where Elena was they just left her ass with Klaus.
Damon was the only one who could find Elena in the hospital and pick her up and save her.
I love the scene when Stefan walked in on them and was like “carry on”
oh and when Klaus smacked Elena I’m against violence but I loved it. When people want to kill you shut up and figure away out of there.
Klaus is the worse I really want him to die, worse villian ever he was bad for like 0 episode he just wants to be loved he doesn’t want to be alone than you probably shouldn’t have killed your whole family.
Matt and Bonnie were great I loved all they’re conversations about life. I loved action Bonnie. She was not scared of Klaus at all because he isn’t scary.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic. I thought the reason Jeremy could see dead people was because of consequences of messing with nature using magic when she shouldn’t have. But now I’m conviced more than ever it is just fan service for J/A shippers.
Katherine needs to die one of Nina Dobrev’s characters needs to go. We really don’t need them both.
I need a Beremy scene next week they really need to talk about this ghost thing.
Vicki doesn’t seem evil so what was Anna talking about. She (vicki) was trying to help them.
Forwood I just don’t care about so.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic. I thought the reason Jeremy could see dead people was because of consequences of messing with nature using magic when she shouldn’t have
I’m going to fanwank that him being able to see her after Bonnie saved his life was part of Vicki’s goal. Since she seems more concerned with seeing him and hanging around him than anything else. & since no one else has actually died and seen a ghost in the interim, I’ll figure that it’s part of how it works. Especially since they touched each other while he was on the other side.
I wish they’d kept it secret what Vicki told Matt, so they could make up something later and then Matt and Bonnie and possibly later Jeremy, could have a secret about what was going on.
and why wouldn’t Bonnie and Matt be wodering where Elena was they just left her ass with Klaus.
Because they needed Damon to rescue her so that he could say he’ll never leave her.
I love the scene when Stefan walked in on them and was like “carry on”
That was pretty good. If only he’d been like that the past 4 episodes.
I was happy to hear Elena scream. Unlike when Klaus killed her and she had no reaction.
he was bad for like 0 episode
That’s pretty much true at this point.
She was not scared of Klaus at all because he isn’t scary.
She seems to be the only one who realizes this.
Why was Matt still able to see Vicki he wasn’t brought back by magic.
I really hope this doesn’t stick, otherwise it’ll make no sense. Matt was brought back by normal means. Hopefully that last scene was just a residue of some kind. Please let it be!!!
Katherine needs to die
So freaking true. I need her to gooooo.
I don’t understand why Anna didn’t want to help with Klaus. Made no sense.
I don’t understand why Anna didn’t want to help with Klaus. Made no sense.
I don’t understand why Anna was so against Vicki. *shrug*
What did you thing of OW (original witch) trying to pull a fast on over on Klaus?
Loved it. Forward thinking on her part. But of course these people had to ruin it by trying to save Elena. I’m dumbfounded that the show is unintentionally making it so that everything would be better if their main girl was dead.
This is true. The man girl and her vampire lackies.
Is Tyler Undead or what? I’m confused and pissed off. It wasn’t enough for him to just be a werewolf? Now if any of the
WTF is this show?
Salvatore’svampires get bitten by a werewolf Tyler can save them?OH MY GOD!! This didn’t occur to me. Tyler is going to be their mobile medical kit.
Tyler is definitely undead. He died and then woke up.
There seriously needs to be a local coven in/and around MF. The supernatural energy must be pulsing out of control. The scales are tipping.
I also to not love that Tyler is undead. I don’t like it.
Magic should still affect him because he’s not an old vamp nor is he an experienced werewolf (whatever that means).
For real. They have two beings who have too much power. Though how, I don’t know. Klaus is stupid and Tyler…
One thing consistent about the fandom is the shipping with Caroline and Stefan last year and now Bonnie and Matt this year. I like these pairs because they are platonic.
I guess male/female friendships can’t exist on this show.
I really like Bonnie/Matt because they know each other,and have been friends a long time. Matt isn’t so close to his friends anymore because of romance Caroline,Tyler and Elena. Bonnie is all he has left I hope they don’t mess it up with feelings.
I still don’t ship Matt and Bonnie romantically. Not right now anyway. I am just enjoying the friendship for now. Like you said, Matt needs a friend right now- not a lover.
All of this. Bonnie/Matt Platonically.<3
It’s annoying.
How is a student able to work out in the school gym without a coach/gym teacher supervising. My little bro’s high school had a gym too (a tiny room in the basement) that was open after school a few days a week but there had to be someone supervising the kids. I guess adults are not needed in Mystic Falls. That is why they all get killed. I guess Matt sneaked in??
Lol at this show pretending that any of these kids go to school
Damon and Katherine got me hot there for a sec. Damn this show for teasing me. Why can’t *any* of my ships happen for more than 2 secs? I don’t even need them to last. Just for a little while show
Has Tyler asked about Matt since the premier? I know Matt offered to help Tyler and Caroline has asked about Matt. Does Tyler just not give a damn? Matt almost died for this guy? Uhh..ok Is Tyler to Matt what Elena is to Bonnie? Matt is like the best character on this show now. How did this happen? Btw, Bonnie is a super hero even without her powers.
This ep makes the whole John killing Pearl and Anna even more stupid, I thought he or Isobel was working with Katherine at the time. Why didn’t she forbid him from killing them? Or did she? Is that why she cut off his fingers and stabbed him? I am probably forgetting some details here.
I LOVE how Stefan tried to stop himself from killing Dana and that dude because Elena was watching but he didn’t hesitate killing anyone in months. I also LOVE how he didn’t rip their bodies apart.
UUUGGGGHHH! Why isn’t Elena drinking vervain? She hasn’t had her necklace in a couple of days now. I CAN’T with this character
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
I love how Klaus is talking about not wanting to be alone to his SISTER. At least, he was somewhat smart in this ep.
Oh great. Now I ship Jeremy/Katherine. Maybe I hate myself. What am I talking about? I obviously hate myself. I inflict this show on myself weekly
Eh, this ep was actually ok. It would have been better if the last ep was the premier. They just needed to add a random werewolf to experiment on in that ep. Plus, I wish they didn’t say there was a time jump. The time jump was completely useless and now Stefan gets to escape culpability for all the people he killed before this.
I also LOVE how he didn’t rip their bodies apart.
Yeah. They really screwed the pooch by saying that was his MO when 1) Hahaha, NO. 2) he hasn’t done it since, 3) and it was just a way to suggest how out of control he got and they can’t be bothered to back it up because it’s stupid.
Tyler is just a bad friend at this point. That’s it.
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
I don’t think they meant to do it, but there are certain parallels. Do you Stefan’s reaction before or after he drank his dad’s blood? Because I think it matches the before, despite Stefan being willing to die, much more than it matches the after. Then again, if we’re talking about degrees then their reactions are more compatible.
I don’t even know what I meant, tbh. I just got a vibe from the whole thing. What parallels did you see?
Yeah. They really screwed the pooch by saying that was his MO when 1) Hahaha, NO. 2) he hasn’t done it since, 3) and it was just a way to suggest how out of control he got and they can’t be bothered to back it up because it’s stupid.
I wonder if the network (or Censors of some kind?? Idk how it works for U.S tv) are getting in the way. The Supernatural writers/showrunners used to talk about how there were restrictions on how gory they could go. And sometimes, something they did for one ep would not be allowed for another ep and they wouldn’t be sure why.
I wonder if the network (or Censors of some kind?? Idk how it works for U.S tv) are getting in the way. The Supernatural writers/showrunners used to talk about how there were restrictions on how gory they could go. And sometimes, something they did for one ep would not be allowed for another ep and they wouldn’t be sure why.
That could be it, but one has to wonder if they really thought that Stefan was going to be able to rip people apart at 8pm on a Thursday. Doesn’t matter because canon is what canon does and the characters aren’t going to talk about being censored. So Stefan is, as per uze, lying about his level of control.
I think the parallel exists mostly in the initial reluctance to drink being overwhelmed and that Tyler’s reaction after drinking matched Stefan’s reaction before drinking, except Stefan was more resigned than Tyler’s general feeling of “oh okay, I’m going to be fine!” For me, it works more in terms of imagery than it does in being able to connect the two characters together, if that makes sense.
Damon and Katherine got me hot there for a sec.
I thought it was pointless. Damon has no reason to want to kiss Katherine. And I could barely hear the dialogue.
Does Tyler just not give a damn?
I love how he complimented Caroline’s big heart like he doesn’t know Matt. He says Matt doesn’t have anyone. So why doesn’t he go be there for him? They were friends in season 1.
Why didn’t she forbid him from killing them? Or did she?
Nope, she wanted all the tomb vamps dead.
I also LOVE how he didn’t rip their bodies apart.
Oh, but he wouldn’t be able to stop if he got started on Elena. Rme.
I love how Klaus is talking about not wanting to be alone to his SISTER.
Lol. What’s dumber is that we don’t even know what being a Hybrid feels like. It’s not like he experiences things differently from regular vamps.
What’s dumber is that we don’t even know what being a Hybrid feels like. It’s not like he experiences things differently from regular vamps.
Exactly. I was with them with the whole Klaus is lonely thing for a while because I thought they would explain something about his experience. But it has been 5 eps now. Maybe they will explore this through Tyler?? That feels too late though
Damon has no reason to want to kiss Katherine.
I still don’t understand how Damon is completely over Katherine. I seriously don’t. He has been obsessed with her for 145 yrs. He is in love with her identical copy now. This is not like Stefan. He should not have this wall of separation between Elena and Katherine because his relationship with Katherine was real. How can he be so in love with the human version but be over the vampire version? I thought her decision to save his life and her declaration of love in the finale would have affected him in some way. How is she diff from Elena?
Did they mean to parallel Tyler and Stefan? On the one hand, I want to puke if this is all about Forwood being together forever. On the other hand, I think this is going to be more like a milder form of what Stelena will be like in the next few eps. What if Tyler turns off some of his feelings in the near future? His reaction to being turned is pretty close (though not as extreme) to 1864 Stefan’s reaction to being turned.
EW Tyler is immortal now! ugh! I totally missed that. smh I can’t.
Also how about Stefan being compelled. His reaction was brilliant. When he was begging Klaus not to do it, it made me think of the last time he was compelled (forgetting that Klaus did it to him previously …) as a human. When Katherine did it to him. I feel like he totally regressed back to the time Katherine stole his will and then proceeded to rape him.
This show will never go there but THANK PAUL FOR HIS ACTING CHOICES!
Also how about Stefan being compelled. His reaction was brilliant. When he was begging Klaus not to do it, it made me think of the last time he was compelled (forgetting that Klaus did it to him previously …) as a human. When Katherine did it to him. I feel like he totally regressed back to the time Katherine stole his will and then proceeded to rape him.
YES. Even if it was about his feelings for Elena (Or did it happen the first time Klaus compelled him simply to obey? Can’t remember.) I loved how wrecked he seemed by the prospect of not having control, in a way that was less about “blah blah blah excuses” and more about being able to make his own decisions.
I picked “I’m taking you with me, mofo!”. Lol. Asshole needs to DIE. Of course, I would be a character like Bonnie in this scenario 😉
I really need Jeremy to hate Damon or just really dislike him a lot.
He’s killed Jeremy, kidnapped him, and smashed his face (his beautiful face). He needs to stay away from Damon. Jeremy was not pissed off enough for me.
Where was Alaric what happened to protecting the humans one of the humans in his care was kidnapped.
Jeremy does need to be angrier. When they get back to MF someone needs to kill Damon. FOR REAL.
No one can get mad at Damon. That was taken care of last episode.
Why is everyone using the word “dick” to describe everyone else? Do these people not know any other words? Why is Jeremy using the same word that Stefan used? They are different characters. Come on, show.
Jeremy was the first character I heard use the word. He used it in season 1 to describe Tyler. A lot. But Stefan’s using it, Alaric’s using it, Damon said Katherine’s not getting dick, it’s freaking ridiculous. It’s like the producers are giddy that they can get away with using this word.
I believe that it is the writers’s subconscious obsessions with dicks manifesting itself. They just have to say it in some way.
Wish they’d start calling each other assholes or something.
Dick doesn’t seem like a word that Stefan would use.
I believe that it is the writers’s subconscious obsessions with dicks manifesting itself. They just have to say it in some way.
I could so buy this.
I can’t believe in three seasons, no one’s said the words “son of a bitch.” Not even the evol, manipulative vampires.
Agree on Stefan.
Because it’s a Supernatural thing is my bet. Dean says it all the time. it’s almost TM
not ever, unless he was mocking someone else.
I’m wondering what was supposed to be game changing about this episode. Tyler being turned into a hybrid? They know they haven’t explained anything about what that means, right? Other than invincibility there’s nothing to it.
Stefan’s emotions were turned off, but from the looks of next week’s episode, who knows how long that will last (wish it would last forever).
Or Michael being brought back? Maybe.
Sorta makes one wonder why Elena’s going to ask Jeremy to use his ability to reach out to Stefan? How is Lexi going to reach Stefan if Stefan’s emotions are off? Am I asking too many questions and expecting too much sense?
Pretty much all those things changed “the game”, I believe. Only Klaus isn’t in the next episode. Sorry, but wouldn’t he be turning werewolves asap? Just ask Tyler where he can find another pack.
Yes. Yes, you are.
can we just pause to point out that Tyler sipped on Elena’s blood …
Ew.
All the things you mentioned + Matt being able to see Vicky + impending doom for Forwood are “game changers” according to this show. The real game changer, for me, was Matt being a real character again.
Maybe Elena asks Jeremy to contact some dead witch since compulsion seems pretty close to magic. Maybe a powerful witch can reverse it……Or she will continue to think that Stefan’s choices are the *only* issue and proceed accordingly. SMH. Please kill her off now, show.
And Elena stopped being a character. She was literally being harvested in this episode.
Yeesh! What is this show? Elena is constantly being chipped away at. It is all very confusing. What is Elena? I don’t mean literally. I mean, what does she represent within this show’s universe? That question is easy to answer for shows like Buffy or Charmed but I am not sure about TVD. I guess the whole show is like the opposite of the shows I mentioned. Instead of women being the heroes, the whole show revolves around the idea of victimizing women and since Elena is the lead, she gets a lot of that. But at the same time, she seems to be prized so what is up with that?
A lot of people seriously think this ep was great. I am judging them all tbqh. It was just ok. It was better than the truly horrible shit that came before this. That is all. Look at your standards, people. Maybe I am being too harsh because I am not looking at this ep in a vacuum. I am looking at how it fits in with the first 4 eps.
With the exception of the Matt/Bonnie stuff, this episode was awful. It invalidates the point of the time jump and of the previous four episodes. There was no point in giving Stefan and Klaus a past. There was no real point in connecting them to Rebecca. There was no point to watch Klaus fail at creating hybrids because this episode could have given us all of that as a premiere. There was no point in listening to Elena tell Stefan to hold onto to their love in the premiere because that line would have fit in here. There was no point in Damon claiming that Stefan rips people apart because he blacks out or Elena saying that Stefan could be saved because he was holding onto to his humanity. There was no point in having us watch Stefan save Damon’s life and the show thinking that was a reason he could be saved. There was no point in Damon saying that he wants Elena to remember how she felt while Stefan was gone.
There was no point to any of this because this episode was set up to absolve Stefan of his sins, which the show could barely acknowledge his responsibility for anyway, by compelling him because it was the easy way out and it apparently didn’t occur to the writers that this way out would need to exist before Stefan spent the summer killing people. The fact that no one even suggested that Stefan was compelled before this episode is amazing. No one thought to consider that possibility until now when Elena watched him be compelled and only now, after he’s killed who knows how many people, only after he’s attempted to kill her is Elena talking about capturing him in a way that isn’t about saving him (though I’m sure that will come up later). I don’t know what Elena’s moral perspective is supposed to be or why I’m supposed to cheer her for this. So. Elena watches Stefan get compelled and because they established Bill being able to overcome it the episode before, she can now just push Stefan to overcome instead of trying to get the fuck out of there. She can hold on to one more thing despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
I won’t even go into the fact that Stefan’s emotions can’t be turned off anymore and how sad it is that they’re only being turned off now and maybe Klaus should have just compelled Stefan to forget Elena entirely, but whatever I hate the compulsion aspect of this too much to discuss how awful and retconny it is.
How hard would it have been for the writers to just let Stefan go? Keep him out of the picture for the first two episode and then reintroduce him with Klaus, after establishing that Stefan and Klaus are friendlier, go into the just made up backstory to explain the friendliness. Have people talk about killing Stefan. Don’t start in the summer and send Bonnie away. Let Elena put her feelings aside, even if only for a moment, to acknowledge that Stefan killing people is not a great tragedy for Stefan. Maybe make Klaus a real villain. Create and plan a real story that is meant to say something about the characters in it and not about how much you don’t care about the characters.
This storyline could have been so many things and instead it is a poorly-executed mess of half-assed writing and planning that reveals next to nothing about the characters expect for adding to the ways in which they are horrible. I’m tired of having to fanwank for a show that puts little to no energy in giving viewers a consistent canon to work with.
I completely agree with everything.
I won’t even go into the fact that Stefan’s emotions can’t be turned off anymore
I completely forgot that Stefan shouldn’t even have a switch anymore until I saw it on tumblr. And now I’m thinking about how the only way Stefan can empathize with people is by relying on an imaginary switch, and I’m kind of amused.
And now I’m thinking about how the only way Stefan can empathize with people is by relying on an imaginary switch, and I’m kind of amused.
He’s is such a sociopath it isn’t even funny, except for when it is.
They say that after every episode so I try not to judge those people.
Yeah, it seemed to be more of them this time around but that is probably just my imagination. Besides, I still watch the show so…. Lol
A lot of people seriously think this ep was great. I am judging them all tbqh.
I think most of these ppl belong to one of these 2 groups
1) Shippers of the show’s 3 bigs ships. Since 2/3 of each episode are either directly or indirectly devoted to these 3 ships, I can see why they think that every episode is awesome.
In a sense, Elena, Stefan, Damon, Caroline and Tyler have stopped to be individual character and become one half of their ship (Elena, Stefan and Tyler even more so than Caroline and Damon, imo). Everything that they do, everything that happens to them only matters with regard to how it affects their relationship.
2) People who are really into the main plot about Klaus/Originals/Mikael. Which, I guess, is fair enough. Wish I could feel the same way about it.
So when Matt said he and Bonnie were lifeguards last summer that would have been before season 1 started. So season 1 & 2 were one school year that they never went to school.
Yep, pretty much.
Did anyone else notice how not only is Klaus just this misunderstood lonely guy (who killed his whole family.) But now he is firmly positioned on team keep Elena alive. Which will probably make him a good guy.
I don’t understand what the producers are doing. Since Klaus is lonely and can produce tears, does that mean he shouldn’t be killed?
It amazes me how everything on the show becomes about protecting Elena. That is the central mission of the show. Every bad guy is hurts Elena and then comes around to protecting Elena in some way – Damon, Rose, Elijah, Klaus. Elena is the centre of the TVD universe, basically. It is not “Save the Cheerleader, Save the World”. It is “Save Elena, Fuck the World” or maybe Elena is the world. Idk. She is basically everyone’s guiding principle. I swear this show would make so much more sense if it was all a product of Elena’s comatose mind. It would explain why everything is geared towards saving her but at the same time she is punished and the world would be better off without her. This could all be about her survival instinct vs. her death wish, her guilt over her parents’ death and her loneliness because of her condition. I mean, the whole show seems to be about loneliness as well.
So I watched it … and I liked it because of the Bonnie/Matt progression we get. They were flawless.
Now my feelings about certain aspects of the episode … probably not in the right order:
Klaus – really liked Joseph portrayal of him and he didn´t seem that stupid this episode, Even figured out that the Original Witch (Clever girl!) wanted to trick him. But this last scene with Rebekah was awful. And I agree with Tavi it seems that now he is squarely on Team Elena.
Where did he run of? Find another werewolve pack and turn all of them into Hybrids with his two blood bags of Elena (did he even take them with him?)
And that scene between him and Stefan at the end and him shouting “Turn it off” was pretty intense. It gave me shivers (in a good way) … probably because of the acting. That doesn´t mean that I liked the road the took with Klefan and this Ripper-Storyline. But I liked it.
Elena – I give up on her. Seriously. I can´t. First this awful scenes with Stefan which I don´t want to comment any further … and in the end this scene with Damon. I can´t again the same scheme. Dramatic music in the background. Dramatic dialogue which I want to mute out.
All what happened last episode was forgotten and the first thing she asked “Where were you?” – She seriously only lives for the Salvatores. I call it she will probably don´t care that he abused Jeremy … and I don´t think she will know of the kidnapping of Jeremy from him. If so she will probably don´t care.
Please just die and never come back again. Not even as a ghost.
Stefan – Not really much to say, but it was very contrived that only after Elena should watch him kill this teens he hesitated and especially that he only tried to kill himself after he was compelled to attack Elena. Way to go to show us that Elena´s life is more worth than any other life he took over the summer. #Fail
But I really liked that last scene. Thanks for blowing that forced Delena scene up. I hope we will get to see more of this attitude and he won´t be all emotional in the next episodes again.
But they probably killed Klefan and all their possibilities. shrug.
Caroline/Tyler – That´s how far it has come … I can´t seperate them anymore. Totally called that Tyler turns into a hybrid .., but I thought perhaps he would live because of his special family line or something like that and not because of Elena´s blood. Tyler knows what is going on with Matt but can´t talk to him. Only about him. Very good friend. eyeroll.
That´s what I recognized through all season 3 until now … many people spoke about Matt but only Jeremy and Bonnie reached out to him.
It seems like Tyler will be now more involved with Klaus and perhaps they will go the book route.
But I´m seriously asking myself what they want to do with him … perhaps they will kill him off after this hybrid storyline is over or change him back if this is possible.
Caroline didn´t do much this episode other than making out with Tyler and worrying about Tyler.
Yeah that was it pretty much.
Damon – Hm, what can I say about him. His roadtrip with Katherine didn´t interest me that much. Also him violating Jeremy was nothing new. And then his escape from the situation with Katherine … I really am rolling on the floor at this scene. “I wouldn´t have done it for you” – Seriously? I hope that isn´t a sentence he tells himself at night to build up his self esteem.
Because wasn´t he not there as he died trying to save her from the council or the last 150+ years trying all to bring her back. I saw it in season one and I remember it. Not to sure about Damon. But perhaps he wanted to hurt Katherines feeling, but that wouldn´t make any sense if he thinks that she is bitch with no feelings.
Yeh good to see his ass kicked the fifth times in a round. He will never learn. But how did he know that Elena was in this Hospital? Does he smell the Petrova fire miles away?
Talked already about that DE scene.
Bonnie/Matt – (Only putting them in one because of their flawlessness together) They were the heroes for me in this episode. Everything what they choose to be was amazing. I loved all their scenes and I especially loved that phone call. Also Matt was doing all of this for his friends (especially Tyler).
Matt reminded Bonnie that she doesn´t need her powers to be important … not like in House Guest where she thought that she was useless.
I really loved that rescuing scene and their history together … that was what I always imagined for them. Lifeguards ftw. So many emotions, they gave me them all.
Kat during that scene where she did CPR on him was flawless … I knew he wouldn´t die but I sensed all her desperation. It was so intense. And the faces. I´m a puddle of fangirling mess.
Sorry, but as I said Bonnie/Screentime/Matt is my OT3 for life and that is why it was so amazing for me.
There last scene was perfect. Bonnie calling him out on that bs he had done and trying to make him appreciate the normal life he only can have, him accepting it but saying it was worth it.
I agree with you, I also can´t ship them romantically bc of the rl with Caroline but I would be so into this if season one would have played out different.
Don´t know if it was only me but I saw a parallel (no that´s not the right word, but I will try to explain) between Bonnie/Matt and Tyler/Caroline.
On the one hand you have Tyler and Caroline where especially Tyler now embraces and enjoys the supernatural part of his life and seeing it as a perfect year coming for them and on the other hand you have Bonnie and Matt who struggle with all this trouble. Bonnie has accepted her path but that doesn´t mean she wouldn´t like it more to live a normal life and wants to show Matt the positive sides of the normal life.
Also them looking back in the past and their last summer and Forwood only looking into the future.
Hope I could expain myself in a good way, but Tylers reaction could also come hand in hand with his transition and him feeling superior.
Loved the Vicki/Matt scenes because I always thought that she was a awesome character and called the others out on their bs. It was really sad to see them say good-bye to eachother.
Katherine/Jeremy – Katherine doesn´t interest me that much anymore … she seriously needs a break or a quick death.
Jeremy and his attitude towards his two “companions” was pretty cool. I liked it. Especially the delivering of the line with the idiots. Don´t know but lol at this.
The last scene looked cool and I´m curious to know what they will do with Michael now that he is awake. I think he will need blood. Don´t like that probably Jeremy will be used as a blood donator, but on the bright side he has the ring on. So he is safe.
Don´t know about Katherine? But probably the Doppelgänger bonus will help her, we will see.
What I want to know is, why was it so easy to wake Michael? Did the witch who entombed him thought nobody would look for him because all vampires fear him so much?
Rebekah – Only some words. I liked her in the third episode much better tbh. Since last episode she seems like a totally other character. Don´t know what to think about her but we will probably see more of her.
That was it for the moment.
Oh I forgot to talk about Not-Now-Dana (I also called her death) … but I didn´t have 3rd-Period-Chad on my list. That was a surprise.
But seriously the moment I saw them, I knew they were dead.
The writers and their recurring guest stars … that´s a story that never ends well for the latter.
Lucy please stay in offscreenville. I would seriously take a livechat with Bonnie because the writers always love Kat´s face on a computer/mobile phone screen to her coming back and being killed of.
Rebekah – Only some words. I liked her in the third episode much better tbh. Since last episode she seems like a totally other character. Don´t know what to think about her but we will probably see more of her.
She came across as more capable in the flashbacks, despite not doing anything other than calling Stefan on being rude, than she has since she came back. I’ve no idea what her motivations are or why she’s still loyal to Klaus or interested in Stefan.
Does he smell the Petrova fire miles away?
Lol! I would expect that more from Stefan than Damon.
What I want to know is, why was it so easy to wake Michael? Did the witch who entombed him thought nobody would look for him because all vampires fear him so much?
Maybe Michael can open his eyes, but he can’t get out.
What I found particularly refreshing about Matt drowning himself to both help his friends and see Vicki is that it wasn’t framed as entirely selfless or entirely selfish. He did what he thought he had to do, even though it was stupid and risky and potentially disastrous for Bonnie and everyone involved if his plan failed. And he knew that. He didn’t try to justify it. Bonnie didn’t justify it for him. But he also owned doing it in a positive. He didn’t regret it and however what he did last night is going to come back to bite him in the ass next week doesn’t bother me because it works. He’s going to go to Bonnie once he figures out something is wrong and that works as well. What I loved, slightly less than Matt’s faith in Bonnie and Bonnie voicing her pressures in an indirect way by saying that Matt doesn’t have to have them, was that all of this progressed naturally. It was trial and error and both aspects won out.
I agree with you on all points … and you´re right especially about that:
Matt drowning himself to both help his friends and see Vicki is that it wasn’t framed as entirely selfless or entirely selfish
That´s what I forgot in my review.
I was just reading the Price Peterson recap over at tv.com and he speculated that Stefan wasn’t really compelled.
Not only that, but he “compelled” Stefan to shut off his emotions entirely. The reason I put “compelled” in scare quotes was this: When Klaus compelled him, I took a good look at Stefan’s pupil and it didn’t dilate. Same thing happened with Bill Forbes when Damon failed to compel him. At the time I noticed it, and it looked like the same thing here. So yeah, I am suggesting that Stefan’s putting on a huge, elaborate charade in order to trick Klaus. He wants Elena to be genuinely afraid, much in the way they wanted her to believe Bonnie was genuinely dead that one time. Plus, Katherine was able to evade Klaus’ compulsion by drinking vervain. Wouldn’t Stefan have to be crazy to not have been drinking vervain just in case? I don’t have all the answers, only shaky theories. But still. I’m calling it as Stefan just being a good actor.
http://www.tv.com/news/the-vampire-diaries-a-prank-night-to-remember-photo-recap-26935/
Would this be interesting? It would mean that Stefan is still a serial killer by his own choice no matter what his reasons are. It could work. Do you guys think there is any possibility that the show will do this?
I saw that too. That would be interesting. It could potentially require Stefan to address that he likes what he’s doing, on some level. He couldn’t be absolved since he’s faking. He’s still making the choice to kill (his choice alone since Klaus asked him to keep Elena safe, not to kill people at random). The show could do it but I’m not sure how well they can do it because the show thinks Stefan doing this for Elena and Damon is enough of a reason, but the fallout could possibly be less “OH WOE IS STEFAN.”
Matt’s pupils didn’t dilate when Katherine was compelling him at the end of Plan B. I don’t think they even dilated when she compelled him in Masquerade. He was even blinking in Plan B.
I don’t think Elena’s pupils dilated when Elijah and Damon compelled her either, but I might be wrong.
Someone asked why Vicky never sent a text to Matt before this and they asked why Vicky couldn’t just send her message in a text. *Sigh.* The text itself I don’t mind, since ghosts can move stuff around, why not keyspads? And I remember that one ghost on BTVS writing on the chalk board. But yes, why not before?
But yes, why not before?
If this was a better show then the possible explanation could be that she wasn’t strong enough to maintain that level of contact before. But this is TVD. So she didn’t do it before because the writers failed to realize that it might have been interesting for Matt to be receiving text messages from Vicki and how that would have been hilarious because TECHNOLOGY but also wonderful because why not let them communicate.
If this was a better show then the possible explanation could be that she wasn’t strong enough to maintain that level of contact before. But this is TVD.
Every time one of us comes up with a simple explanation to a TVD screw up, I wonder how these people got their jobs. I mean seriously. Your explanation is perfect and makes sense.
I wonder how these people got their jobs. I mean seriously.
KW and JP must have pictures or videos of shady behavior stashed somewhere.
Lol.
It looks like she has only been able to move things or appear to people or anything after Jeremy’s resurrection. I am thinking that his resurrection is what is making it possible for ghosts to interact with the world of the living. Whatever spell brought him back must have poked holes in the barrier between the world of the dead and the world of the living. Regardless, it is not like she was breaking windows before Jeremy’s resurrection. This might all be new to her. Maybe it took her some time to learn to control her abilities. I agree it was weird that she didn’t send another text message. Maybe it was simply a product placement moment. I know that a lot of ghost stories have ghosts being able to manipulate electronic devices so the text itself didn’t faze me. What did bother me was that they didn’t show her *trying* to send another text msg and failing. Unless, she *wanted* Matt to attempt suicide so she could come back. Maybe that was part of her plan all along and Matt fell for it really quickly.
Unless, she *wanted* Matt to attempt suicide so she could come back. Maybe that was part of her plan all along and Matt fell for it really quickly.
That could be part of it. I’m curious as to how a ghost would know how to come back. That seems like information for the living. Matt has no reason to believe Vicki would want to hurt him. There’s also the chance that she has no idea that it could have negative effects on Matt. She’s just trying to come back.
I am thinking that his resurrection is what is making it possible for ghosts to interact with the world of the living. Whatever spell brought him back must have poked holes in the barrier between the world of the dead and the world of the living.
I love this theory!!!! It would certainly explain episode 7. The witches bringing Jeremy back tore a hole through the veil between the two worlds. So it could start out with Matt dying to be able to see a ghost, but then pretty soon the ghosts could just show up, and they become strong enough where anyone could see them. I’d love that.
So it could start out with Matt dying to be able to see a ghost, but then pretty soon the ghosts could just show up, and they become strong enough where anyone could see them. I’d love that.
This could work very well, especially if the ghosts are trying to be seen. Most of the ghosts seem to be Damon’s victims too. With the exception of Vicki, who Damon and Stefan share responsibility for.
Totally forgot to mention that they could be seeking revenge or something similar, since Damon is going to be attacked. But I guess that only works if all the ghosts attack him, so nevermind.
No no, it could still work. Let’s pretend this show is better and there’s an actual plan behind this. Ghosts start appearing only not all of them want to reconnect with loved ones. Some want revenge because maybe they were murdered or something so they start getting revenge on those responsible even if said responsible ones are now old, or maybe they go after the descendants. Then Bonnie could get wind that this is bigger than Jeremy and Matt. Maybe some ghosts become violent because they’re not supposed to be in this world for long.
This could be brilliant (there needs to be a list of commonly used phrases in the TVD fandom because “this could be brilliant” would be in the top 10 at least) if all the ghosts coming back weren’t being confined to one episode.
Much like everyone’s reactions to Damon last ep, doesn’t it seem like Matt’s grief should have been dealt with last season?
I agree, but i’m willing to give them a pass because they addressed Matt’s grief twice last season and both times were in reference or related to Caroline. Plus they failed to do a lot last season & they seem to have an okay handle on his grief (i could do with him being coldet to elena) now, so…yeah they probably should have dealt with this last year. They probably could have tied it with a better executed doppelganger storyline.
I made this update on my phone last night. That’s why the icon is all different.
Okay, I have a feeling this is gonna be a long post.
First of all, what is – once again – up with the violence directed at female characters? I mean, the male characters got their fair share too, what with Tyler getting his neck snapped, Stefan being stabbed by Rebekah and Jeremy getting hit by Damon. But I somehow feel that the violence against the female characters is on another level? Idk. The female lead is attacked by her bf and basically manhandled/pushed around for the entire ep. Katherine is once again pushed by Damon and, according to the show, this is a good thing since Katherine is the ‘evil’ one and a bad influence on him or sth. I’m sick of seeing this. And then there’s this random scene of Klaus telling 3rd period Chad to beat Dana to death if she moves or sth? What is this? Why does this scene exist?
Soo … let’s start with Damon/Katherine/Jeremy/Anna which, for me, was probably the most boring part of the entire ep. There’s nothing remotely interesting about D/K interaction, it’s always about Katherine being all extra-seductive and Damon rejecting her, acting as if he didn’t spend the last 160 years obsessed with her. Btw, is it just me or is ND’s portrayal of Katherine getting worse? Or maybe it’s just the bad writing that makes her character look so pathetic. Also, I don’t understand why Damon was in this SL. What reason could Katherine possibly have for taking him on this road trip? Makes no sense to me. I enjoyed Jeremy and Anna, though.
Michael – I have a feeling that this SL will be very boring. Of course waking him up will turn out to be a bad idea. Of course he will try to kill all vampires. Of course he won’t kill Damon, Stefan, Caroline and Katherine. He probably won’t kill Klaus either because a Salvatore has to do that. He will probably end up killing Rebekah, considering that she is a female guest star on this show. (Btw, the final scene in the crypt, when Katherine opened the tomb, gave me BtVS vibes for some reason.)
Klaus – For some reason, I really liked his line “There are ways to make you suffer” when he pushed Elena down the hall. It just was so … energetic. Idk. Klaus works for me when he has these energetic moments. But his final scene with Rebekah? Ugh. And him hightailing it out of there once he heard of Michael? Some kind of villain he is. And imo it’s all on the writing. JM is making the best of the crap he’s given, methinks.
Elena was – once again – not a character. She is either one half of Stelena or one half of Delena. (Although, to be fair, to a certain extent, the same can be said about Damon and Stefan – especially Stefan, I think.) Oh, and of course Elena’s blood is magical.
Matt and Bonnie – I enjoyed their scenes. In general, it’s always good thing to get interaction between characters who are not romantically involved. It’s so rare on this show. But I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers included this SL because it will eventually take a romantic turn? Because that’s what this show does? I hope not, but who knows with these writers.
One of my favourite moments of the entire episode was the moment before Matt jumped into the pool. It was truly chilling and it also worked for me on an emotional level. It made me care about the character, think about how he got to this point …
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done. I guess it’s an unpopular opinion but I kind of hope that this compelled!Stefan stuff will be over by episode 12. I just don’t think this SL will be interesting/entertaining to watch at all for more than a handful of episodes. What’s the point of a character who can’t make any real choices? But we will see …
Tyler and Caroline – I didn’t really care tbh. I really like them individually, but together? No. For me, one of the worst moments of the episode was when Tyler complimented her on her big heart and acted as if he had never been friends with Matt.
Btw, I recall a lot of shippers claiming that Forwood was the only relationship on the show where the girl is stronger than the guy. Well, that didn’t last long. Having said that, I’m pretty sure that Tyler will be “cured”, although it makes no sense since he *did* actually die. But death has no meaning on this show, so there’s that. The only thing that makes me question this is that the writers may want to go the Forwood is eternal route.
I guess that’s everybody? Oh, Rebekah. She is getting worse each episode. Liked her in the 20s flashback. Now? Not so much. But I’m pretty sure she will be killed off soon. – So, that’s it. I really don’t want to bring up S/E and D/E. All I can say is it was as expected.
Oh, and lol at Alaric for wanting to protect the humans but not being there when shit hits the fan. The show loves to undermine its characters.
Oh, and lol at Alaric for wanting to protect the humans but not being there when shit hits the fan. The show loves to undermine its characters.
This is another example of the writing teams limitations and laziness. Didn’t the council put vervain in the water supply? Why was Klaus able to compel Dana and Chad? Why did no one think to call the Sheriff or Alaric? Convenience.
Didn’t the council put vervain in the water supply? Why was Klaus able to compel Dana and Chad? Why did no one think to call the Sheriff or Alaric? Convenience.
Putting vervain in the water supply was Bill’s idea and Damon ran Bill out of town. Elena thought it was a good way to keep Damon in check. However, I don’t think that Liz would go with a plan that would give her daughter acid burns each time she came into contact with water in the town. Matt said that Liz asked him to put vervain in the coffee occasionally. So even that is not a regular thing.
Bonnie *should* have called Alaric when she was looking for Alaric. Alaric lives with Jeremy and seems to have taken over Jenna’s duties as their guardian.
*looking for Jeremy
Btw, I recall a lot of shippers claiming that Forwood was the only relationship on the show where the girl is stronger than the guy.
This has confused me for awhile. Why do people not count Bonnie/Jeremy? She is a lot more powerful than him.
Because Bonnie/Jeremy doesn’t suit their purposes. Jeremy’s only a wuss.
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done. I guess it’s an unpopular opinion but I kind of hope that this compelled!Stefan stuff will be over by episode 12. I just don’t think this SL will be interesting/entertaining to watch at all for more than a handful of episodes. What’s the point of a character who can’t make any real choices? But we will see …
Speaking as someone who wishes I could just do away with how much I love Stefan’s sociopathic ass, I agree so much. There’s so much potential there, but he has to, at the end of it all, be able to be with Elena and since the writers have this skewed vision of Elena, he can’t be anything less than…a non-person contained in the “perfect” boyfriend. Because this storyline hasn’t really taught us that much about Stefan as a character, not from him, at least.
I’m not sure how interesting this storyline can be if what we’re going to see is Stefan falling in love with Elena despite himself. Or doing things that Damon did in s1. Which, ugh why couldn’t he have just stayed out of town with this behavior? Why couldn’t they have just said that Stefan turned? You’re right, what is interesting about watching Stefan do all of this stuff if we know he’s not technically responsible in the verse of the show? Ugh, this storyline could have been so much more than what it is but the writers are too locked in being lazy.
Tyler died, but, like you said, he became stronger. I don’t think the show views Jeremy in the same league as Damon/Stefan/Tyler. By that I mean, I doesn’t have any powers, isn’t anyone’s protector, they do not treat him the way they treat those three. So I hardly count him getting hurt as evening things out. I’m not saying that I want to say as clearly as I want to, so I hope you kind if get it. Lol.
Nina’s portrayal is definitely getting worse. Part of it is her acting, and I think a big part of it is the writing. I’m sure Nina isn’t sure where the heck they plan on taking Katherine. Plus they’re not writing Katherine the way they wrote her at the beginning of season 2. Back then, people came to Katherine, people called Katherine. Now she’s trailing after them.
Now that you’ve brought it up, I’m counting down Rebekah’s last days. She will be the casualty to show us how ~dangerous Michael is.
I really liked his line “There are ways to make you suffer”
Is that what he said? I could not for the life of me hear him. I also couldn’t hear what he was saying to Stefan before he compelled him. Something about a summer day?
But I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers included this SL because it will eventually take a romantic turn?
God, I hope not. What has me even more scared than the fact that they had a lot of scenes together this episode is the inclusion of their picture together on Caroline’s phone. I need a Bonnie/Jeremy scene stat.
Stefan has to be in the least character-based character arc this show has ever done.
True.
I just rewatched the ep and think I worded the part about D/K wrong? I think what bothered me wasn’t just the pushing but also his line “You just don’t do it for me anymore.” I don’t know how to explain it, it just rubs me the wrong way. I guess part of it is that I don’t like how we’re supposed to see past all the awful stuff Damon does and, at the same time, are supposed to be agree with him judging Katherine.
I don’t think the show views Jeremy in the same league as Damon/Stefan/Tyler. By that I mean, I doesn’t have any powers, isn’t anyone’s protector, they do not treat him the way they treat those three. So I hardly count him getting hurt as evening things out. I’m not saying that I want to say as clearly as I want to, so I hope you kind if get it. Lol.
Yes, I get what you are saying and I agree actually.
Is that what he said? I could not for the life of me hear him.
On rewatch it sounded more like “Can’t wait to make you suffer”. So I don’t know. The music on this show is way too loud. (Plus, English isn’t my first language, so I don’t always understand 100 % of what is being said anyway. Something which, coming to think of it, isn’t necessarily a bad thing when it comes to this show, lol.)
(Plus, English isn’t my first language, so I don’t always understand 100 % of what is being said anyway. Something which, coming to think of it, isn’t necessarily a bad thing when it comes to this show, lol.)
Lmao.
Why oh why did Caroline have a picture of Stefan and Elena on her phone? When did this hanging out occur? The only times Stefan and Elena relax is when they go to cabins in the middle of nowhere. Why did it look like a yearbook couples photo?
Lmao. I’m wondering why she had a picture of Matt and Bonnie instead of Bonnie and Jeremy. Lord, Lord, Lord I do not want the show to go there. We know Matt and Bonnie are interacting next episode, but they don’t seem to be interacting in 3.07. That’s a good thing because this show sucks and hates friendships, especially ones involving people of the opposite sex so when you see said people interact you start getting paranoid because this freaking Fandom will ship a guy and a girl if they so much as smile with each other.
This show’s aversion to platonic male/remale relationships is disturbing.
I’ve ficced out a scenario where Matt and Bonnie have an awkward moment and then they’re both like “This is ridiculous” and there’s no subtext to the moment, they both just think it’s ridiculous in a “we’re friends and that’s cool” way. If the show did that then I’d be cool with it, but they’re probably going to take them to a romance place without explaining why and it will be bad because this show is bad and doesn’t know how to do anything else other than rush romantic relationships.
This fandom and shipping is ridiculous. People don’t even have to look at each other. There are Klaus/Caroline shippers. If we checked there are probably Elijah/Matt shippers, to pull something out of thin air. I don’t have a problem with crack shipping, but this fandom sometimes.
Olu, why don’t you ever post your fics?
An awkward moment would be fine (though I of course would prefer there be no moment at all) after Bonnie temporarily breaks up with Jeremy or something, but this show doesn’t do awkward moments.
There are Elijah/Caroline shippers.
Most of them are in a rough draft stage and I hate editing, so I stare at them until I can’t anymore. It’s all very anxiety based since I’ve started looking back at my old fic and realized that a lot of it was pretty sloppy.
There need be no moment between them, but if there’s going to be I’d rather it was over before it could begin. If only this show took itself less seriously. There should be so many awkward moments on this show leading to moments of hilarity or angst or just fun times and instead everyone is intense and grim!dark.
There are Elijah/Caroline shippers.
Well. This is new.
I honestly don’t understand most of the popular Caroline pairings.
Most of them are in a rough draft stage and I hate editing, so I stare at them until I can’t anymore.
Lol.
I don’t understand most of her pairings either. I wouldn’t put her with any guy on canvas as they’re written, but if I even had to consider one I would choose Jeremy, and that’s solely because Jeremy’s human so there wouldn’t be pushing and he wouldn’t make her cry like Matt. Then again if he’d said “What the hell?” to her like he did to Anna, the writers might’ve made her cry.
I just read a comment harping on Matt for not naming Tyler and Caroline as people who’s lives have changed because they have it harder than he does, yet the poster doesn’t mention how Tyler basically wrote Matt off in the episode, saying instead that Ty/Caro are better without him. Sometimes I wonder why I take this Fandom seriously.
Tyler may have it harder than Matt does, but both Caroline and Tyler (less so than Caroline) have support systems. Matt is even in there support system but, like you said, Tyler doesn’t care anymore that Matt was once his best friend (and he basically made Caroline’s concern into something that made her better, instead of the fact that they’re all friends and they should all be concerned about each other, and proceeded to make out with her and ignore her concern).
I stopped taking Tyler/Caroline seriously when one of their more popular fans compared Matt to Chuck Bass.
Ooo, I think I saw that comparison. I didn’t continure reading though. I saw Chuck Bass and left.
lulz. How bad could this Chuck Bass be? I’ve only watched a handful of GG eps and one of those happened to be the one where Chuck sold his gf for a hotel or something. My memory is sketchy on that one and I don’t think I watched the whole ep. The other one happened to be the one where Chuck punched glass next to his gf’s head and the glass cut her face. I only watched the second one because the girl I used to discuss TVD with, used to post about GG on TWOP too. She got temporarily banned for going off on Chuck apologists on the GG forum so I had to check out what all the fuss was about. I get that both those acts are HORRIBLE but is he any worse than the guys on TVD? Matt was psychologically abusive to Caroline. I don’t think that it was to an extreme degree or that it was deliberate but a lot of what he did played on her insecurities. A lot of their relationship involved her seeking his validation/approval and him withholding it. Even the nice things he said to her were mostly backhanded compliments. DAMON. Tyler attempted to rape a girl in the pilot. STEFAN. I think Jeremy is the only one who hasn’t been a raging asshole to a woman…maybe(??)
Chuck tried to rape two different girls in the pilot of GG and the suggestion was made that he had in fact raped girls before. He is emotionally abusive and manipulative towards Blair, constantly telling her that she needs to get down on his level and that his level is her level. He sold her for a hotel and then shamed her when she tried to help him, not knowing that he’d sold her. They had a relationship in s1, behind Nate’s back and when Nate found out, Chuck slut-shamed Blair again. He is constantly breaking up her relationships. In s3 (I believe) he had very questionable sex with another girl on the show, hid her in his bathroom and basically told her that she couldn’t talk about it because he wanted to be back together with Blair. He’s regularly described Blair as his, tied her self identity into his love for her.
I’m not saying Chuck is worse than Stefan or Damon, but I wouldn’t call anything Matt’s done to Caroline on par with Chuck’s behavior. Matt was a dick to Caroline and her insecurities were this huge thing between them, as were his lingering feelings for Elena and I feel that the both of them are better off without each other, but I don’t think what Matt did in his relationship with Caroline is comparable. Not even a little bit.
Jeremy has definitely been the least gross towards women on the show though.
Chuck sounds like Damon from your description. The diff seems to be that Chuck can’t use being a vampire as an excuse.
Chuck has daddy!issues and Nate Archibald!eternal male model is his best friend issues. That’s the excuse that his fangirls use for him.
I almost want to call him worse than Damon because, at least every once in awhile Damon acknowledges that he’s horrible, but those moments don’t mean anything in the long term.
Nate Archibald!eternal male model is his best friend issues.
Lmao. Chuck has body image issues?
Chuck has body image issues?
Nope (he’s actually go that backhanded confidence thing going), but in the earlier seasons of the show it was suggested that Nate being his best friend and being with Blair hurt him and Nate was supposed to be this perfect guy that Chuck would never be. Like Nate was posed as a bad friend (even though he’s actually the best friend on GG) when it came to Chuck.
It doesn’t make sense because the only person Chuck’s daddy issues effect is Blair and it’s always negatively and he’s just really gross and part of that is who he is and another part of that, seems to be the writers not getting that the things he does are horrible.
I am rewatching the ep right now because I legit zoned out through large chunks of it the first time. I am only half way through and already I found 2 big things I missed. I can’t believe there was a time I used to pay such close attention to this show that every little detail was seared to my memory
1) Elena didn’t run because Klaus told Stefan to break her back if she tried. That is why he told her to run as time was running out because they had nothing left to lose by that point. And that is why she hesitated.
2) Matt went back to get the keys to his truck so he and Bonnie could go find Jeremy. When he got to the gym or the locker room, he found a trail of his clothes leading to the pool. His keys were at the bottom of the pool. Vicki sent that text msg right when he was going to get into the pool to retrieve his keys. She basically told him to do what he did in her ghost way.
Also, Rebekah is basically Caroline. No wonder she got over the whole getting murdered by her brother thing in 2 secs. And Rebekah said that Klaus had been breaking Stefan’s neck all afternoon as pay back for his betrayal. Plus, when Caroline woke up she was rubbing her neck. Maybe a snapped neck is how you render a vampire unconscious.
Re: Elena not running; why didn’t they try knocking Stefan the fuck out? Give him a good quick blow to the head and then hightail it out of there.
Maybe a snapped neck is how you render a vampire unconscious.
This was actually my personal head!canon before the show did it. Snapping the neck would at least temporarily, for a vampire at least, shut down higher brain function.
I can’t believe I said “for a vampire at least” as if that isn’t how most everyone dies on this show.
Re: Elena not running; why didn’t they try knocking Stefan the fuck out? Give him a good quick blow to the head and then hightail it out of there.
Elena was alone with him. She wouldn’t have been able to knock him out by himself. Bonnie was dealing with Matt’s suicide attempt. Caroline was stuck with Tyler and Rebekah elsewhere.
*by herself
He could have run into the wall. Snapped his own neck. He tried to stab himself, he could have snapped his own neck. I’m not laying the blame to Elena in that scene. He could have done something more.
Oh yes. *Stefan* could have done something. That is why I was hating on him my comment below. Elena did what she could and it worked half way. He did resist and slow himself down while chasing her. But why did it even get to that point? He had 20 mins during which he basically kept talking. Why didn’t he ask her to snap his neck if he couldn’t do it himself?
Oh wait. Are you saying that Elena should have asked Stefan to hurt himself or let her hurt him?
No. I’m saying that Stefan should have done something to hurt or disable himself in order to give Elena time to escape. Elena, while she did talk to him about something that was only an idea at that point, didn’t approach him so she did attempt to protect herself. Even if her dialogue sometimes betrayed her actions.
Elena probably forgot about Klaus’ threat and was just standing there because she was worried about Stefan. Is that why Stefan told her it doesn’t matter at one point?
She didn’t forget. When Stefan told her to run, she said something like, “but he said”. Stefan told her it doesn’t matter because the clock was winding down so he was about to kill her anyway.
Oh okay.
God! Watching the Stelena scenes after realizing that all Elena could really do was try and talk him out of it or coach him is making me hate Stefan more. Basically, trying to get him to try and fight is all she could do and all he did was scream at her that her ideas were dumb. Oh and he told her that she is DEAD like 10 times. The only good Salvatore is a dead Salvatore.
The way the scene plays out becomes really useless considering her options for escape were non-existant. Like I’m trying to think of a way for the scene to play out and I’m thinking silence on Stefan’s part would have been better than telling her repeated that he wouldn’t be able to stop himself from killing her. It’s like the writers wanted to stress how ridiculous the situation was without rectifying it.
Like Alta said before, it was basically a string of scenes that had Stefan explaining why he wouldn’t stop himself from attacking her, only to erase his will, both times. This fucking show man. It needs a plot overhaul. Like dead Salvatores.
Maybe the point was that Stefan really really *wanted* to eat her like Klaus said but he was justifying it by saying that he couldn’t stop. Maybe that is the reason for the stupid 20min time limit in the story. Stefan will take any excuse that allows him to feel less responsible. Unfortunately for him, Elena kept screaming at him that it was his responsibility to fight his urges and not kill her. If she had kept quiet, I think he would have killed her without resistance and blamed Klaus entirely.
I don’t think we are supposed to take anything that comes out the Salvatores’ mouths seriously. They are lying liars who lie. Damon kept going on and on about how he is over Katherine and yet he did everything she asked including bashing Jeremy’s head. It took him *hours* to ask *one* question about the mission he signed up for blindly. He only stopped following her because he found out that Elena was going to DIE. Damon’s words said that he loved Elena and was over Katherine. His actions, on the other hand, said that he is into both of them.
Maybe the point was that Stefan really really *wanted* to eat her like Klaus said but he was justifying it by saying that he couldn’t stop. Maybe that is the reason for the stupid 20min time limit in the story. Stefan will take any excuse that allows him to feel less responsible. Unfortunately for him, Elena kept screaming at him that it was his responsibility to fight his urges and not kill her. If she had kept quiet, I think he would have killed her without resistance and blamed Klaus entirely.
That’s what I’m going to take from it. I don’t know if that’s what the show wants us to take. Ugh, I wish the show hadn’t introduced the idea of fighting compulsion. Or compulsion at all into the storyline. It makes everyone look bad. It makes Stefan look like…well it makes Stefan look like who he is, but yeah everyone looks bad in the end.
I think we’re not meant to take Damon seriously because he’s emotional and he protects himself emotionally with his lies. But he doesn’t lie, so much, about his actions and his motivations.
I think we’re meant to take Stefan seriously so they can pull the rug out from under the viewer but for some reason not Stefan (because they haven’t explored Stefan’s motivations outside of his love for Damon and Elena, since season one), unless the storyline is heading in the direction of Stefan taking responsibility for and owning his actions. Not just as an idea, but in his own words. Which it doesn’t seem to be so who knows.
Hmmm, maybe. But they also made a point of showing us Stefan kill without remorse for 4 eps before this. Plus, the three other male characters in the main/regular cast, who were in the school, went through something that fulfilled their deepest desires. Tyler got to be a Hybrid so he won’t have to transform at will like he wanted. Klaus got to make a successful Hybrid. Matt got his only family back. I am thinking that Stefan’s transformation (having the switch off) follows the same pattern. He *wanted* to kill without culpability or any remorse and now he can.
*Tyler go to be a Hybrid so he can transform at will.
unless the storyline is heading in the direction of Stefan taking responsibility for and owning his actions. Not just as an idea, but in his own words. Which it doesn’t seem to be so who knows.
What I am trying to say is that there is a small chance that they are going to do this. They will half-ass it, of course, but maybe maybe maybe there will be an attempt.
Oh, okay. This is going to be one half-assed attempt though. Considering everything going on now, but I will allow myself a smidgen of hope.
Lol. Yes. I am like 90% sure that I am making shit up to get myself excited about the show. But there is still that 10% chance it is real 😉
There is always hope!
I spent part of the afternoon thinking up fall out situations that ended in Stefan’s death, Stefan not being invited back to group meetings anymore, or the show finally acknowledging that he’s a villain and that eventually leading to his death. Basically Stefan died a lot and he wasn’t a good guy 97% of the time.
I doubt he’ll die, but if he admits that he is awful and that he knows it, and no one stops him, then I will be less upset than I might eventually end up being since you know, it’s still TVD and there’s only 10% hope.
I am thinking that Stefan’s transformation (having the switch off) follows the same pattern. He *wanted* to kill without culpability or any remorse and now he can.
I definitely think that Stefan wants to kill without remorse, but I’m not sure this is the way the show should have went about it. Because, like you said, in the previous 4 episodes Stefan was killing without remorse, but we had Damon, Elena, and Klaus telling us that Stefan didn’t want to and couldn’t control himself to boot, so I’m not sure that the parellel, of dudes getting what they want works because with the exception of of Tyler, everyone else made active decisions to get what they wanted, even if Matt’s decision was incidental. He didn’t know he’d get to keep seeing Vicki.
So I agree that Stefan wants to be able to kill without remorse, but the previous four episodes weren’t building up to this moment. I don’t know. There are a lot of contradictions within the show, for what we’re coming up with and what actually happened.
because with the exception of of Tyler, everyone else made active decisions to get what they wanted,
It seemed to me that they presented Tyler’s transition as a choice even though they didn’t have to and it didn’t even make much sense to. Caroline objected to him taking the blood and Klaus simply offered it to him. He didn’t force the vial down Tyler’s throat.
Do you think Tyler would have chosen death? Are the consequences real enough to him for him to choose death? I’m not sure. So that’s why I described his decision as less of an active choice than Klaus’s scheme or Matt drowning himself.
Do you think Tyler would have chosen death? Are the consequences real enough to him for him to choose death?
No, he wouldn’t have which is why I was surprised that they even went that route. Why have Caroline say anything at that point? Did she want him dead? Is being a vampire that bad?
Maybe this is why I got the vibe that Tyler and Stefan were similar in some way in this ep. Their choices were extremely limited and tough but they were still there. It is like that saying – Between a rock and a hard place.
It just occurred to me that Caroline telling Tyler to resist taking Elena’s blood, even though it has been established that transitioning vampires can’t resist the sight of blood, is a little bit like Elena telling Stefan to resist compulsion. Just on a much smaller scale. Both girls were telling the guys to resist things that are extremely difficult to resist. Idk.
It’s actually pretty amazing how easy it seems to both of them to ask Tyler and Stefan to resist something that has proven irresistible, whatever Bill’s abilities are he didn’t wake up with them one day, not because they shouldn’t have but because when they told them to resist it wasn’t with a “I know it’s difficult tone” but a “you need to not do this” tone, which for Elena made sense since her options were telling Stefan to try or death, but Caroline knows how hard it is and the writers have failed to go into how much her life has changed. It doesn’t make sense that she would basically encourage him to die. Especially since it wasn’t going to be easy.
Yeah, I don’t think Tyler would have chosen death. He has no idea what a Hybrid is aside from the fact that they turn at will. So why not become one? As a matter of fact why did Caroline want him to choose death?
Lol. Klaus compelled Stefan to “turn it off”. He didn’t say anything about *keeping* it off. Stefan is basically where Damon was in season one. Damon had his switch turned off back then too but he was still considered responsible for his actions because he could choose to turn it on. Elena gave him a reason to make an effort ….which wasn’t very successful. Lol
At this point, I’d take the storyline where Stefan was keeping it off (if the show goes there) because he could no longer deal with feelings anything. Even though we haven’t seen him feeling all that much. It would be preferable and would at least be an act that Stefan was choosing that could not be twisted into empathy by him or by others. He didn’t have to keep his feelings off but he chose to because he was sick of holding back or holding on because the act of not feeling anything wasn’t as easy as not feeling anything.
But the show will probably go with him being compelled all the wya.
I’d take the storyline where Stefan was keeping it off (if the show goes there) because he could no longer deal with feelings anything.
Much like the Caroline/Bill story, this whole thing could have worked for me if they had only made it *slightly* different. It would have worked for me if it was Stefan’s choice to turn the switch off. Everything in the ep could have worked out the same. The only diff would have been that he couldn’t fight the compulsion because, unlike Bill, he hasn’t had any practice. So he is standing there yelling at Elena for like 20 mins. As the clock is running down and he realizes that he won’t/can’t stop, he turns off his switch so he won’t have to feel anything about what he is about to do. Just as he bites her, Klaus walks in to stop him because he needs Elena’s blood. I am not saying it would have been great. I am just saying that it would have been good enough. As in, it would have met my bare minimum standard.
It would have worked for me if it was Stefan’s choice to turn the switch off. Everything in the ep could have worked out the same. The only diff would have been that he couldn’t fight the compulsion because, unlike Bill, he hasn’t had any practice. So he is standing there yelling at Elena for like 20 mins. As the clock is running down and he realizes that he won’t/can’t stop, he turns off his switch so he won’t have to feel anything about what he is about to do. Just as he bites her, Klaus walks in to stop him because he needs Elena’s blood.
This would have actually been loads better and probably more interesting than his weak and aborted efforts to kill himself. Still not the best way to go about the storyline, but it would have worked more than the compulsion turning off his feelings. Not only would it have been his choice, but it could have potentially explained why Elena would be unable to convince him to turn his feelings back on later. Like, why should love convince you if you’ve shut those emotions down by your own choice?
I just forced myself to get through the final Delena scene with the volume on. Did Elena seriously ask where Damon was? I don’t know what to make of that. Is he like her security blanket or something? She needs him now by her side always?? Totally confused. Damon wasn’t there but *all* her other friends were there. I’ve never seen her ask where Bonnie was in a crisis. There was nothing he could do during the sacrifice to stop Klaus. If he had stuck around and been at the school, there would have been nothing he could do against Klaus again. Plus, Damon held on to Elena’s knee or thigh waaay too long. Despite all this, it was actually one of the more tolerable DE moments.
Did Elena seriously ask where Damon was? I don’t know what to make of that. Is he like her security blanket or something? She needs him now by her side always?? Totally confused.
Watching that scene, I was like “Okay Elena, I know his life revolves around you but sometimes he needs breaks and it’s not like Klaus sent a mass text stating his intentions. Calm down!”
Plus like you said, every single one of her other friends was there. If this was Buffy, even if she’d been hurt, even if she’d headed home, there would have been some line about her checking on Bonnie or Matt or Tyler. Does she even know if they’re alive? Did she even ask?
It felt oddly genuine despite the dialogue and the situation and the expectations. Which is rare for Delena scenes. The genuineness not the ridiculousness.
Watching that scene, I was like “Okay Elena, I know his life revolves around you but sometimes he needs breaks and it’s not like Klaus sent a mass text stating his intentions. Calm down!”
Exactly. Plus, *not* being stuck together 24/7 turned out to be the better choice because it enabled Damon to get info he could use against Klaus. This is like how the whole show is about keeping Elena alive but the world would be better off with her dead. I fail to see the advantage in both scenarios – Live Elena or Delena.
It sure sounded like she thought of him as her security blanket. Last episode didn’t happen.
It made me rethink Stelena actually. Someone had a theory a while back that Elena’s decision to stay with the Salvatores was a direct result of her parents’ deaths. Like they were the much harder to kill replacements. I guess they are her protection and her family in her mind. Maybe the more adults she loses in her life, the more attached she gets to them. So if she can’t get Stefan, she will at least try to hold on to Damon. It is different from Jeremy because she is responsible *for* Jeremy. I guess the Salvatores are responsible *for* her???? It might explain why she was so desperate to get Alaric to live with them. She really needs a family. Alaric is pretty new though and more breakable. Idk. Just speculating because that line really threw me even though she said the same thing the 2 eps before. But that time she was completely alone. This time she had Bonnie and Matt running around trying to find a way to save her.
This is also making me think about why Elena dumped Matt and rejected Damon but chose Stefan. I think that maybe, more than anything else, it is because both Matt and Damon would have required constant support from her but Stefan gave her support most of the time. Again, idk. I am just trying to get the show.
I like that theory. Of course it only works if Elena ignores how they hurt her. Which she does. And I’ve never seen her be responsible for Jeremy. But I like this thought of Elena clinging to the Salvatores as the only adult figures she can count on (though she never paid much attention to Jenna). If only.
Of course it only works if Elena ignores how they hurt her. Which she does.
Yeah, but Elena doesn’t care about her physical safety.
(though she never paid much attention to Jenna)
According to that theory I read, Jenna doesn’t count because she was just as breakable as Elena’s parents.
Oh I see now. She needs adults whom she can count on to be there, and of course vampire trumps human in the longevity department.
Alta, I just looked at your blog. I liked your response to that person who said that Elena deserved to be slapped around. ITA that the writing choices these writers make says something about them.
Also, it amazes that so many people continually complain about how the Salvatores have changed for Elena and how it has screwed up Damon but very few people complain about how the Salvatores has ruined Elena waaaay more.
I completely agree about the lack of complaint on how the Salvatores have changed Elena.
My problems with Elena are many, but it’s gotten to the point where I can’t not think about the the producers’ motives when they write her. I don’t think it comes from a place of caring that much about Elena.
For you Alta,
So I have a spoiler that will make your day there is a casting call for episode 10 ABBY BENNETT 38-44, African-American, a beautiful but troubled woman who is burdened by the secrets of her past that led her to abandon her daughter Bonnie. As determined and fiery as any Bennett woman…GUEST STAR, RECURRING.
OH MY GOOOOOODDDDD!!!!!!!
So maybe she is the witch that entombed Mikael in the 90’s.
I just made your day didn’t I. I fangirled all over my house I may have looked a little crazy.
Yes you did! I was waiting for them to cast her dad, and I’m blindsided with this! I would love it if she was the witch who entombed Mikael! I keep reading the casting side over and over.
YES! FINALLY!!!!
Love it!!