4.02: Will Connor be taken out as stupidly as the pastor was?

We’ve said that the show hates competence. And Connor might be Black and competent. That type of people always die in TVD.

Synopsis

Promo

Twelve memorable moments from the screening of Memorial

Stills

A tease about Jeremy

Extended Promo

Elena Spoiler Thanks, Kathrin!!!

Webclip

Stefan/Damon spoiler

Spoilers from the Memorial screening

Klaroline triangle news Thanks, Kathrin!

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107 thoughts on “4.02: Will Connor be taken out as stupidly as the pastor was?

  1. I have to say, Stelena actually looks hot in the trailer. But that’s mostly Elena, because the Delena scenes look hot too.

    I’m waiting to see how much of a wreck Bonnie is in this ep. Is she going to get 2 scenes? I hope Jeremy visits her. PLEASE!

    This is the ep where something weird will happen with Jeremy. Please don’t let it be annoying. I already dislike his medium crap. He shouldn’t be a supernatural.

    I’m looking forward to seeing Elena’s transition continue. Looking forward is a strong word, but it’s good so far.

    I don’t care about anything else.

  2. Lol so they killed that whole council (or who were those people in the house with Pastor Young?) so they don´t have to be bothered with showing Council meetings and them telling the people of Mystic Falls about the vampires and so they only have to show Connor who is in charge of all of this.
    So practically nothing changes, nobody except for the group knows about vamps. Wasn´t the Council supposed to be the focus of the first half of the season or did I remember wrong? I read too many JP interviews.

    • You didn’t remember wrong. That’s what she had said, because I remember saying that I didn’t care because we don’t know these Council people.

      She said in her post-episode interviews that that was the Council. It’s been obliterated. It’s ridiculous. The Council was a good concept, but then JP got bored of exploring the town dynamics.

  3. Exactly I am confused about that, it seems like Pastor Young did not take out the whole council, didnt he come in with like a whole tactical team?
    Also I find it really ridiculous that they would only send in Connor after what happened to now the two coucils that were in charge. Why not send in more?

    Honestly I am so over the triangle, before I didnt care but now Im just so over it, it is the same thing every ep. One ep S/E, following ep a scene for both ships, ep3 S/E scene oh wait D/E fans your scenes will be coming up in ep4. Honestly dont care.

    Im only looking forward to the Bonnie scenes, I do hope we will get Bonnie/Jeremy scenes.

    • I don’t know how that was the whole Council when it seemed like Pastor Young was talking to a bunch of followers, not anyone who actually knew what was going on. It’s so lame. The Council’s gone, but we still have three adult members from the Founding families. She says now we’re back to Liz and Carol protecting the kids, but Liz and Carol don’t do anything: which I guess is how she likes it. I wish another Council would come in and wipe most of these people out.

  4. People are saying that Grams died again. I thought she was just tortured. How can she die when she is already dead dead? She is a ghost. Was her soul destroyed?

    • It seems she was ripped from Bonnie, so it doesn’t seem like whatever happened to her is over. She can’t die again, but I wonder if she’s going to be in pain until Bonnie acts right or if her soul really has been destroyed. Is there such a thing a soul destruction in this series? JP doesn’t know.

  5. Why do the witches even care what Bonnie does. They are dead. Are they that bitter and bored that they have to interfere with their lives?

  6. “Her compassion is her achilles heel.” Lol, Stefan. Who talks like that about someone they know?

    And where are they? That doesn’t look like any room in the boardinghouse that we’ve seen. It looks like Alaric’s apartment.

  7. I don´t know if this was discussed already, because I´m still trying to understand what happened in regards to the spells in last episode but I saw a tweet of Julie Plec in regards to Bonnie:

    So she hasn´t lost her powers but the thing that happened with Grams in the premiere will happen everytime she tries to do magic now?
    How does she figure that out and why does JP have to explain it to us and doesn´t show us on screen?

    • What? So everytime she does Magic (any magic because apparently now there is no specificity) she’ll see her Grams in pain? Why that particular punishment? Why now? I think I’d have rather her lost her powers temporarily as punishment rather than the spirits basically saying you can’t handle magic of any kind so you’ll forever associate the pain of your loved one to using your witchcraft. Can they do that? And I guess the appearance of Prof. Shane magically cures her? He’s hot and all and I’ll probably ship it, but let’s get real for a moment, a non supernatural human is the answer to all of Bonnie’s craft woes? This really had better be going somewhere because it has some redeeming qualities if they treated Bonnie as a character of interest, but if it goes in the vein of the last 2 seasons then I see nothing but headaches abound. At least Shane is hot.

    • I happen to think my reading comprehension is just fine, and in at least one of those post premier interviews I linked to in the other post, JP straight up said that Bonnie lost her powers and she’s going to be trying to get them back.

      I know she has a rule where no more than 2 Black people can be talking to each other onscreen at any given time, but why didn’t she have one of the witches come down to explain this to Bonnie. How the hell is Bonnie going to guess that ANY time she does magic, she’ll SEE her grams in pain?

      And Renina is right, when you get to the bottom of it, how the heck can Shane, a human, help Bonnie fix what she’s done? Because he has so much experience with witches who have been punished?

      Thanks for bringing this over, Kathrin.

      • I think that Julie has become so disassoiciated with Bonnie that she may be genuinely confused about which direction she’s taken the character in. Bonnie temporarily losing her powers rings more true to me and is actually a more exciting storyline opportunity. Kat Graham alluded to the same (Bonnie being temporarily powerless) and I find that it opens more opportunities for character growth having her no longer able to depend so readily on magic rather than having her magic assoiciated with the pain of her Grandmother.

        I think I may come to love Shane depending on his motives, but I can’t lie that I’d have rather seen Lucy in the role of Mentor rather than some guy they’re thinking of casting as Bonnie’s love interest. At least Shane is hot.

        • I actually think both are a good story opportunity, because actually with JP’s plan, we get the same result: Bonnie can’t use her magic. But wouldn’t it be that, she can’t use dark magic? Why would her mother suffer if she uses clean magic? *Sigh* JP better not make the most out of screwing this up.

          Yep, my choices for mentors when it comes to Bonnie are: Lucy or Abby.

          We’ll see how this goes. JP just couldn’t help but give a White man the role of “All knowing mentor.”

          • Abby? I’m still not sold on Abby after she ran out on Bonnie (again). Most of the later half of season 3 is a blur for me so I’m not sure if Abby ever returned? Or was that scene in the kitchen with Caroline the last that we saw of her?

            I don’t why, but I like the idea of Bonnie being powerless (temporarily) more than continually seeing her grams in pain and thus probably growing too fearful to use her magic. At least if she absolutely has no choice but to depend on something other than magic, maybe people (The Salvatores) will give her a break.

            At least Shane is hot.

            • She came back in 3.21 in that stupid scene where Damon said he’s on team Bonnie. But I was thinking more along the lines of if things had been different and the writers were actually invested in Abby and Abby/Bonnie, they could’ve written her to be Bonnie’s mentor instead of continuously making her run away so that they don’t have to deal with the relationship.

              One of the things I hope for is that Shane helps Bonnie fall in love with her magic. My friend made me realize that Bonnie has pretty much come to view her powers as a tool to help her ratchet friends. When Jonas took her powers she said she hated because she felt helpless. That’s still her viewing her magic through the lens of “I can help others.” There’s nothing personal there.

              I love that you keep saying “At least Shane is not.” Lmao. Hold on to that! Because who knows how much JP will screw this up.

              • Oh you know I haven’t thought beyond Shane possibly teaching Bonnie about the history of her heritage, but what you said sounds really good. I’d love him so much more if he helps Bonnie appreicate her power and love it the way she used to. But part of that would mean that Bonnie would have to learn to regain some agency and say no every once in a while even when I know she feels useless if she’s not helping in some way. That’s not something Shane can do for her, but I hope the show takes the time to let Bonnie realize her worth and her right to refuse. As long as she’s allowing herself to be handled as a tool, that’s all she’ll be.

                Yeah, but I think Julie is pretty much done with Abby at this point. She brought her in and failed to make her interesting or dynamic enough (imo) to invest time in her relationship with Bonnie, so beyond ep 12 Abby has felt pretty much like a throw-away. I don’t know why Julie thought that Abby would magically work without the effort, but there you go. Bringing in Bonnie’s father feels kind of like a re-do to me.

                Shane (David Alpay) is really more “adorable” than he is hot, but maybe if I say it enough I’ll start to believe it 😉

                • But part of that would mean that Bonnie would have to learn to regain some agency and say no every once in a while even when I know she feels useless if she’s not helping in some way. That’s not something Shane can do for her, but I hope the show takes the time to let Bonnie realize her worth and her right to refuse.

                  Yep. She ultimately has to do it for herself, but it will also be a big help if there’s someone around who sees her as more than “someone who can help.” I know Jeremy saw that in her once, but he screwed it up and a lot’s happened since then.

                  I’ll never forgive her for screwing Abby over.

                  Lmao!

  8. New Webclip:

    Is it just me or is the acting really bad in that clip?
    Still don´t get why Elena can´t drink from a blood bag like almost every vampire does on this show.

    • The acting seems the same to me.

      Who takes “This seat is taken” literally? Elena actually says “There’s on one here.” Uh, maybe they’re in the bathroom?

      I don’t know how I feel about Damon categorizing the people Asian Fusion, Mexican, and American. So the Asian and Mexican people aren’t American? That former slave-owner *_____*.

      • Who takes “This seat is taken” literally? Elena actually says “There’s on one here.” Uh, maybe they’re in the bathroom?

        Awww. Damon is still mourning Alaric 😀

        It might be a sign that ghost!Alaric is going to show up soon cry tho 😥

        I don’t know how I feel about Damon categorizing the people Asian Fusion, Mexican, and American. So the Asian and Mexican people aren’t American? That former slave-owner *_____*.

        OMG! I had to take a few mins to calm down after I heard that. It is like that time he made all those gay jokes. Just Damon being Damon 😡

        • Your smiley face tho. Lmao.

          OMG! I had to take a few mins to calm down after I heard that. It is like that time he made all those gay jokes. Just Damon being Damon

          Ugh.

          I think this is the first time I’ve seen Elena turn on her doe eyes. When she says, “I think I need your help,” I swear her face changes and even I thought “How can Damon say no to her?”

          • Your smiley face tho. Lmao.

            I only like watching Damon when he is suffering 😈

            I think this is the first time I’ve seen Elena turn on her doe eyes. When she says, “I think I need your help,” I swear her face changes and even I thought “How can Damon say no to her?”

            I’ve noticed that look many times before. It is why ND is perfect for the role. Lately, I’ve been wanting to bash Elena’s head against a cement floor, repeatedly, every time I see it 👿

            • And of course we’re being treated with Damon mourning Alaric. Alaric’s death is actually being taken seriously. A White man mourning another White man. JP must’ve been beside herself while writing this (and she did co-write this episode).

              LOL!

        • It might be a sign that ghost!Alaric is going to show up soon cry tho 😥

          I have a feeling that you are right about that. That will probaby be the moment JP spoke about in one of her interviews over the summer, apparently one of her favourite Damon scenes ever.
          She probably wrote it.

    • It isn’t just you.

      Stefan is putting pressure on her to drink only animal blood, I guess. RME. The animal diet didn’t work for Vicky, Caroline or him that won’t stop him trying again.

  9. Just because Stefan goes to ask Bonnie for help, doesn’t mean he’s the one she lets into her house, right? RIGHT????!!!! Is this how she’s going to find out that her she’ll make her grams suffer each time she does a spell?

    I won’t say much about it because it’s in episode 3, but if Bonnie is going to help with Connor here, then what’s up with the happenings wrt him in episode 3? *Sigh.* I had said I didn’t want a Salvatore geting an invite into Bonnie’s house. But I might still get my wish. I don’t have much hope though. *Sigh.*

    • Lol same here. Still hoping for Tyler to show up and getting an invitation.

      But how could she help to get information about Connor? She doesn´t have any connection to him and I can´t remember her using a spell to do such a thing, what would that spell be like?

      And when does Bonnie start to puke blood? Is she at the Memorial after all we just didn´t see her in the stills, because it looks like Connor does something to the humans (“sacrifices for the greater good”) in the church to identify the vampires. Maybe all the humans are puking blood and then the vampires have to resist … but Elena fails.

      And what is this stuff about Matt?

      Connor immediately identities the vampires he wants to kill. He’s clever, he’s ruthless and he’s not afraid to make sacrifices for the greater good. During a memorial for the recently-deceased Council members, Connor sets up a plan to entrap and identify the various vampires in town. The question is whether they’re all strong enough to resist. Matt becomes a hero at the memorial, proving once again that he would do anything to help his friends.

  10. I posted the latest link, courtesy of Kathrin, because it contains a small tidbit regarding this episode. Specifically, who Connor will be targeting. I think his choice is surprising.

    • No to basically everything in that article, but Conner’s target is surprising and interesting. I’d have thought the obvious choice would be Elena, of course. Klaus was a flop evil and Alaric was a flop hunter so I’m looking forward to Connor.

      • Yeah I’m shocked tbh, though I’m sure this will still result in nothing for the character.

        I’m not impressed that the show frames every hunter who’s not Alaric as a bad person, considering the types of vampires we’re working with here.

  11. How much do I love that Joseph Morgan is the only one who remembers a regularly brings up the fact that Klaus killed Jenna? Too much, probably.

    Is Stefan even drinking animal blood right now? Why are they still pushing the animal diet? The only time they even tried to pretend it worked was in s1 and we don’t even know how long Stefan was on it by the time the season began. I don’t even get what the spoilers mean by “nearly endless years of torment”. Stefan’s years of torment were caused by 1) Lexi torturing him 2) his decision to not bounce from this torture 3) falling on and off the human blood bandwagon. No other vampire has had endless years of torture surrounding the fact of drinking human blood. Also, I still have issues with Elena not being able to drink animal blood at all. That doesn’t make sense. Blood is blood is blood is blood. Her not liking it is one thing. Animal blood being less appetizing than human blood has been established, but not being able to drink it seems like a shit situation if say one becomes incapacitated and the only blood available as one is locked in a cell is rat blood or something. But I digress.

    Blood bags exist. They exist. They exist. Is Damon’s solution going to involve Elena feeding off of him? Cause I don’t understand why BLOOD BAGS HAVE CEASED TO EXIST.

    So tired of these kids being willing to do everything to help each other. Get selfish.

    I very much fucking doubt that any form of “memorial” that fails to acknowledge that Damon and Stefan have caused many of the deaths that have occurred will cause me to cry. Especially if everyone is together and not evil eyeing those two into the grave. (EVERYONE WHO HAS DIED? Are we supposed to believe that?)

    I’ve moved past the idea of how weird it is that a vampire hunter is the villain on this show. It makes sense. The vampires and their servants, I mean friends, are the main characters. Are they good? Nope. But whatever. I’m just…I hope Connor gets to stick around. I hope he gets to kill off a few people. I hope we get an explanation for how he’s a successful vampire hunter.

    So ZapIt says that tonight’s episode is one of the 5 best ever episodes of The Vampire Diaries. I do not want to see that list.

    Elena’s compelling someone! I wonder who. I’m actually excited for Elena. At least as much as I can manage considering the Salvatore involvement.

    • It’s like he wants everyone to remember that Klaus caused major damage once. But Elena’s alive, so why remember that Klaus killed Jenna? And now I’m thinking about how ridiculous it is that Elena could identify with Rebekah after her brother Klaus killed her aunt. When Rebekah thought Klaus had been killed by these people, she wasn’t looking to look into Elena’s heart. She wanted to stop her heart. Lol.

      Stefan is supposed to be learning to drink human blood without killing people. But that’s in the version of this show where the Ripper arc happened. I wonder if Klaus will even say the word “Ripper” this season.

      Omg, are they gonna say that the Council destroyed all the blood bags? I wouldn’t put it past the writers.

      They need to get selfish. That that page out of Elena’s book.

      Yes. Damon and Stefan are going to be right next to them mourning? I wonder if Tyler will be mourning the two people he’s lost. I’m going to keep my eye out for that.

      The vampires and their servants, I mean friends, are the main characters.

      Ugh. Hating it. Can Connor at least kill Kol? They can bring Kol back so that Connor can kill him. I want him him to kill a vampire. No hunter has killed a vamp since UJ took Pearl. And yet the idea of a vampire hunter still exists on this show.

      Lmao. If Stefan is the one Bonnie’s inviting into her house, then they’ve already qualified that as a great moment, so I don’t trust them. Also, it was zap2it that said in their write of the premier that Bonnie finally gets to be the hero. So.

      As long as she’s not compelling Connor or Jeremy.

  12. Not that I´m complaining but we haven´t seen those Previews for the episode with JP in it this season. Wonder why they stopped with that.

  13. Connor Jordan, everybody! Connor Jordan!!!! He was the best part of this episode. I love him. I love him a lot. It feels good to be rooting for a character again. I want him to achieve his goal. I want him to kill all the vampires he wants (except maybe Caroline, but I might be flexible). These vampires are so useless, I don’t know why I should want them alive.

    Loved his fight with Damon. I love that he was ready, pulled the gun out and shot him.

    I loved when he shot Tyler in the church. What the hell was he thinking? How dumb can you be?

    Caroline has no vampire speed, and is pretty much the worst vampire ever. She can’t use her speed to put on her clothes and see what’s up, but I’m supposed to believe she could kill Connor? Ha!

    Why oh why would Tyler go to the Salvatores?

    April is so unnecessary. Her pain was given more screen time than Bonnie’s (and more screen time than Bonnie’s pain has ever gotten). We have Rebekah. We really don’t need her.

    I said to Olu in a post above that I’d keep an eye out to see if Tyler said goodbye to his loved one. He didn’t! I knew he wouldn’t! Caroline said it for him! Lol! And forgot Mason. That group scene was such bullshit. Damon was the only one they kept in character. Not surprising. He got the real goodbye scene. What the kids did was bullshit. Damon’s scene actually had substance. Why the hell did Bonnie even come?

    ALARIC! I’d love to watch him die again. Lol.

    Connor is perfect.

    That bullshit scene between Bonnie and Stefan. I can’t. He thought about killing her 3 weeks ago. Three weeks ago, she thought he was going to kill her. Why couldn’t Caroline have taken those bullets to Bonnie? Because it would’ve actually given her something to do?

    Connor made this episode. I love him. I also really liked the scene where Jeremy saw the tattoo.

  14. Have to go to bed so I will only say two things:

    Connor – I love him. Please never leave this town. And kill them all.

    They forgot about Mason, Uncle John and Abby and that pathetic scene in the end.

  15. I loved that Bonnie hadn’t invited Stefan into her house. Don’t you need a verbal invite. smh I hate Stefan’s succubus ass. why was that a scene. PW & KG tho

  16. I often complain about the introduction of new characters and I really don’t care about April, but I think Connor is welcome addition. Whatever the preview is trying to say about him being “a new evil” doesn’t mean much to me. Maybe we’re supposed to not like him because he was willing to kill April to draw the others out in order to kill them, but 1) who the fuck is April and 2) why should I care when Tyler isn’t a character, Elena’s not going to die, and Stefan and Damon would burn the world down just to save Elena? And ruthlessness is what vampire hunting needs, in my opinion. Plus he’s hot, doesn’t accept bullshit and is out to survive. I appreciate, more than anything else about this episode, the fact that he wasn’t playing any games. He immediately shot Tyler up. Shot Damon as soon as Damon attacked him. Best hunter this show has ever brought on. I wish we could have seen him and John work together. Or even him and Pastor Young, who was worlds more interesting than his daughter, even when they reduced him to a religious zealot.

    I do wonder about whatever is coming that Pastor Young was trying to warn his daughter about. A part of me wonders if Elena’s compulsion will even work considering, I don’t think Pastor Young was about keeping secrets from his daughter, or not protecting her at least, with vervain breakfasts. But we’ll see. I don’t wonder too much since it’s TVD and this impending doom will most likely be made up on the fly, but I’m excited about Connor and hope he sticks around because he’s the most effective character the show show has brought on in a long time.

    This episode was better paced than usual. In fact it was pretty well paced. I appreciated that. Um, Damon was good. I wasn’t actually annoyed by him at all during this episode. Wait, never mind, I just remembered the Asian Fusion, Mexican, etc. scene, but at least he was in character. I wish Elena could just get over Stefan and I don’t mean that in a mean way towards Elena. I think he drags her down. I think he abuses and regularly manipulates her capacity, however overused it may be, for compassion to make her feel bad. I hope at some point soon his behavior causes them to break up. Because Stefan should actually be alone and dead.

    Stefan and I, are done professionally. I can’t with who he is on the show. I can’t. I wish the writers cared, but they don’t. so I’m not going to anymore.

    I can’t be bothered with that final scene. I’m going to copy/paste what I said on Tumblr about it and leave it at that:

    You know what would make this scene for me? If Matt shanked Damon and Stefan right the fuck now because they killed his sister. And then Jeremy could throw some gasoline on their asses because Damon killed him. And then Tyler can strike the match for Mason. Caroline could throw some wood on that fire and Bonnie could keep Damon and Stefan alive long enough to feel their flesh melt off their bones. Then Elena would pull out some Herseys and marshmallows and they would be friends again because fire is purifying or some shit and the Salvatores were finally dead. And then from the depths of his soul, Stefan can shout, “I fucking hated Alaric.” Just so he can get his throat crushed by Bonnie. Good day. The end. Fresh starts

    • Whatever the preview is trying to say about him being “a new evil” doesn’t mean much to me. Maybe we’re supposed to not like him because he was willing to kill April to draw the others out in order to kill them, but 1) who the fuck is April and 2) why should I care when Tyler isn’t a character, Elena’s not going to die, and Stefan and Damon would burn the world down just to save Elena? And ruthlessness is what vampire hunting needs, in my opinion. Plus he’s hot, doesn’t accept bullshit and is out to survive.

      All of this.

      That preview is laughable. Unless Connor wants to burn down the entire continent, I am going to be on his side.

    • Whatever the preview is trying to say about him being “a new evil” doesn’t mean much to me.

      Doesn’t mean anything to me either. These people haven’t learned that they’re a threat to everyone they talk to. Hang around vamps, you get caught in the crossfire. I wish there was a chance in hell Connor would succeed.

      Best hunter this show has ever brought on. I wish we could have seen him and John work together. Or even him and Pastor Young, who was worlds more interesting than his daughter, even when they reduced him to a religious zealot.

      Yes, yes. Connor/UJ especially, before he drank to kool-aid For Elena.

      A part of me wonders if Elena’s compulsion will even work considering, I don’t think Pastor Young was about keeping secrets from his daughter, or not protecting her at least, with vervain breakfasts.

      It seems to me that Pastor Young would be the one Council member to tell his child the truth.

      I wish Elena could just get over Stefan and I don’t mean that in a mean way towards Elena. I think he drags her down.

      He does drag her down. Enough.

      Because Stefan should actually be alone and dead.

      I literally laughed out loud.

  17. So the portrayed compulsion as something positive again? I didn´t like that pep talk Caroline gave to Elena. As much as I don´t care for April I hate how they make compulsion the solution for everything and don´t question how problematic it is.

    My stream stopped when the first Bonnie scene came on, so I didn´t see that and I don´t know if I want to … but did Bonnie puke blood in that scene? Because Kat said that she would be puking blood.

    If I remember right, Katherine accepted blood from blood bags so why can´t Elena or does it take 500 years on earth for a doppelgänger to get around to be able to drink it?

    • April should’ve died in the time it took Caroline to deliver that ridiculous pep talk. She should’ve bled out already.

      Bonnie didn’t puke any blood. It was only Elena. And those scenes weren’t even gross like the spoiler people said they would be, but maybe that’s me.

      Elena can’t because of contrivance. At least Connor was here to make up for the fact that this entire episode was based on a retcon. I don’t know why Damon was saying her doppelgänger blood is rejecting it. On one hand it makes sense, because Dopples are made to be sacrificed, but that’s not what the show said. They just said her blood was rejecting it. What does Damon know about doppelgängers. Katherine didn’t even know she was one until she overheard Klaus or whatever.

      Another person who had no right to speak was Stefan about the other side. What does he know? As if he ever cared enough to listen to a witch and learn about them.

    • I’m so confused about what you mean by this comment. You thought she was a bitch last week when she chose to help both Elena and Klaus and was punished for it? Also the scene made no sense for either character at this point in the show. Stefan and Bonnie are not friends like that and haven’t even been close to being friends like that since season one. Are you joking about it being the best Bonnie scene ever? I’m trying to figure out what you loved about the scene. She didn’t get to do anything.

      She was hurting and for reasons unknown, the writers saw fit to have Stefan, who just two or three weeks ago on the show, was willing to kill her and her mother to save Elena, who only a few weeks ago on the show was murdering people without care (and maybe they formed some ill-written partnership when it came to the coffins, but that’s not a friendship, witness that and be the person she, however temporarily, broke down in front of. Even though as far back as s2, Bonnie was against showing weakness in front of the main three. Or anyone really.

      • I really enjoyed the way she was portrayed in the scene. She seemed more caring, vulnerable, and she wasn’t being angry. Any scene where she’s angry/raging, like the thousands throughout the first 3 seasons, have just grated on me too much. I found her much more relate-able and sweet in this scene. I hope they continue to have more scenes like this, without her being all ‘woe is me for helping you guys’ If I was her I would either leave town, or stop doing magic. She doesn’t need to come to their rescue every week, only to complain about it whenever they ask her for help. It’s become so engrained in the show that she will help them, no matter what, that the 75 times she complains before/while/after helping them has annoyed me. In this scene however she seemed willing to answer’s Stefan’s question and was kind about it. She didn’t curse him out and tell him to leave. So when she helps them, I just want her to be nice/pleasant about it.

        • Thousands? Of scenes? Now I know you’re exaggerating. 😉

          But she wasn’t supposed to be sweet, she was supposed to be broken. She wasn’t even supposed to be caring, but I guess even letting Stefan into her house suggests a level of concern she should probably be beyond. You’ve never found her vulnerable before? Or caring? Not in s2 when she died so she could save Elena? Or when she lost Sheila or Abby? Not when she was so broken over realizing that Caroline had died? Not the countless times she has saved everyone’s lives on this show? You haven’t found her caring in those moments? Or vulnerable in those moments? She’s never raged. I wish Bonnie would rage, but she has never raged. Bonnie is far too contained for that.

          Are you talking about scenes when she seems less than willing or happy about helping Stefan, Damon, or Klaus? I don’t get that. In s1, what she knew about Damon was that he’d hurt Caroline and later on that he killed Vicki and tried to kill her. Stefan and Damon are partially responsible for Sheila’s death. They are both responsible for Abby’s. Since s2, Stefan has only shown concern for Bonnie when it benefits him. Damon only ever when it benefits him. But at least he’s honest about it. Klaus kidnapped her and forced her to do magic for him. Esther basically siphoned magic off the Bennett witches for centuries.

          Bonnie has not had half the reaction to this, negative or otherwise, to suggest she’s been raging.

          I hope they continue to have more scenes like this, without her being all ‘woe is me for helping you guys’ If I was her I would either leave town, or stop doing magic. She doesn’t need to come to their rescue every week,

          But everyone would be dead. They would be dead if she didn’t help them. If they have other witch friends, they should find them. She’s sacrificed a lot to help Elena and the others, and they keep going to her. But I don’t see them receiving the same level of judgement. Why should she have to leave town? Heaven knows I think everyone should get the hell out of dodge, but why should she have to leave? It is her home as well. She shouldn’t have to stop doing magic either.

          Should she say no to them more often? I think so, but you seem to have no judgement for everyone else for constantly taking from her. And your judgement of Bonnie is, in my opinion, really harsh. Are there no scenes or moments from earlier seasons that you enjoy? Not even in s1?

          Can you remind me of a moment where she has complained? What she actually said when she complained, because I don’t recall any of these moments at all.

          Bonnie could stand to be meaner to Stefan considering. With the exception of the decade dance in s3, Bonnie is nice to Stefan 90% of the time. Or she doesn’t really have words on him at all. When has she ever cursed any of them out for asking for help? Klaus? After he kidnapped her?

          So when she helps them, I just want her to be nice/pleasant about it.

          But why should she be nice or pleasant about it? They are asking her to use her body and her very being to save their lives all the time and they do not repay the favor unless they just happen to be in the room at the same time when danger approaches her. Why should she be anything less than, “What dumb shit have you started now?”

          And how does her character grow within this nice/pleasant state of mind she’s supposed to maintain while everyone else fucks up?

          I have a lot of issues with how Bonnie is handled. I want her to stop using her magic to help out the main three so much. I want her to say no sometimes. I want there to be consequences and rewards when she does. And I want the main three to react in kind. There is something wrong with the story where people get to take and take and take from Bonnie and if she shows even a small amount of irritation or exhaustion she’s in the wrong, because of her place in the narrative. Doesn’t that suggest there’s something wrong with her place in the narrative?

          • You guys enjoy Bonnie too much for me to argue with you. I just find her apprehensive ‘woe is me’ ‘i hate you guys’ ‘i don’t want to help’ ‘leave me alone’ ‘never again’ ‘never again…’ ‘never again… okay one more time’ ‘never again…’ ‘okay i’ll do it again…’ Does that not annoy you to death? Do you actually like her character or do you like who you wish her character was?

            • I just want you to give me a specific scene where Bonnie complains to anyone. A specific moment where she said “never again” to Elena or Stefan or Damon. Or “I don’t want to help.” Cause as I mentioned in my previous comment, I have a lot of issues with the way Bonnie is written and the way the writers fail her character and the effect this has on her character, but I can’t list “complains too much” among them because Bonnie doesn’t complain. She has, to my knowledge, only turned Stefan away once and that was in s1 when she got back from grieving Sheila and didn’t want to be his friend anymore. But she still managed to save Damon’s life in the finale.

              Do you have a problem with Bonnie not getting along with the Salvatores? Because while Bonnie is one of my favorite characters, I do not enjoy any character on this enough to avoid or be unable to listen to criticism of them.

              • lol Are you being serious? The main reason I dislike Bonnie is because all she does is complain and be reluctant all the time. Then she gets hurt and blames everyone else, when she never actually has to help them. I want her to actually ‘enjoy’ helping them, or never help them again… But why do you blame the writer for ‘failing her character’ ??? Can’t you stop liking her if she’s doing stupid things you hate?

                • NAME A SCENE! NAME A SCENE! NAME A SCENE! NAME A SCENE! NAME A SCENE! NAME A SCENE!

                  I’ve been asking you to name a scene for about three comments now and you keep coming back to “all she does is complain and be reluctant all the time”.

                  PLEASE NAME A SCENE WHERE THIS HAPPENS. PLEASE. PLEASE TELL ME A SCENE WHERE SHE BLAMED EVERYONE ELSE.

                  A lot of my problems with Bonnie do have to do with the writing. I am indeed being serious. She gets hurt and disappears the episode right after most of the time or gets one scene that deals with that hurt before she gets asked for a favor in that very same scene. The show doesn’t deal with her pain in a real way and that’s the fault of the writing. Stefan called her a weapon in s2 (Plan B?) and the show has treated her as a weapon ever since. No one considers what she’s lost (unless we get throw away and problematic scenes with Caroline and/or Matt. We always get third party reports on Bonnie’s feelings, unless, of course, she’s affirming her decision to help the others. Then she’s front and center, in the writing, being strong and powerful and “finally” the hero, as if she’s not the reason everyone, including your faves, are alive). My problems with Bonnie, as a character, are that she accepts it. The writing doesn’t stop being who she is as a character, and that involves helping everyone no matter how much she loses, even if she loses her life.

                  Why should I stop liking her because she’s doing stupid things I hate? If that was my barometer for the characters on the show, “do a stupid thing and I’ll stop liking you” I would have quit a long time ago. I keep hoping, for whatever reason considering the writing, that she will stop helping the others or at least demand something in return for what she’s asked. Which is where I’m hoping the story-line with Shane is heading. Bonnie has started seeing herself as a weapon, as a tool to protect and save Elena, and subsequently to save those people Elena cares about. So much so that she’ll let Stefan, who just a few weeks ago was willing to her mother and her to save Elena, offer her comfort. And he’d be willing to do that again. How is that, if a problem with Bonnie as a character, not only a problem of the writing?

                  Once again, I’ll ask you to NAME ME A SCENE WHERE BONNIE COMPLAINS OR BLAMES EVERYONE ELSE OR CUSSES THE OTHER CHARACTERS OUT FOR ASKING FOR HELP. NAME ME A SCENE. NAME ME A SCENE.

                  There are plenty of reasons to dislike Bonnie, she isn’t a perfect, but I’m seriously confused about why her haters/detractors make up reasons. Maybe you’re not making this up. But you have yet to name a scene. One scene where Bonnie did any of the things you said. Or where Bonnie doing anything you’ve said she did, negatively effected the outcome of what Stefan or Damon or Elena wanted.

                  Another question, why don’t you wish Stefan or Damon or Elena stopped asking Bonnie for help? If she’s so reluctant and put upon, as you say, why don’t they just go to someone who is pleasant and obedient and never asks any questions about what her body and her power is being used, because they are using her, to achieve?

                  • lol even if next week Bonnie kills Jeremy and then herself would you praise her and still hope she’d ‘be better’ and ‘do other things’ This would be like trying to convince me that Anna sucked for whatever reason, when she is my favorite character. ❤ I just will never be able to convince you otherwise. The scenes I am thinking of, she turns down Damon twice, he then threatens her and she helps then after the fact says it'll be the last time she'll help him. She helps Klaus and says this will be the last time. She looses her familia member and gets all sad and says she won't help again. She is reluctant to help Elena in abut 7 episodes, but caves and helps. At least that's what I recall. Let me know if I'm wrong after ya watch all the episodes again! =) I'd do it, but I'm doing a Buffy rewatch atm! xo

                    • lol even if next week Bonnie kills Jeremy and then herself would you praise her and still hope she’d ‘be better’ and ‘do other things’

                      Why would Bonnie kill Jeremy and then herself?

                      The scenes I am thinking of, she turns down Damon twice, he then threatens her and she helps then after the fact says it’ll be the last time she’ll help him.

                      When was this? That’s less vague than “Half her scenes,” but it’s still vague. I watch every episode twice, and I don’t remember any scene where Damon threatened Bonnie into helping him. Nor do I remember Bonnie ever saying “This is the last time.”

                      She looses her familia member and gets all sad and says she won’t help again.

                      Are you talking about Sheila? She never said “I won’t help you again.” You’re putting words in her mouth. She told Elena to leave her alone. And that was before she got into the habit of helping them. And she didn’t even help them in that instance, she saved Amber Bradley. Bonnie has never told anyone that she won’t help them. I wish she would. The one time she said no (to Klaus in the premier), he threatened to rip Tyler’s heart out and she caved.

                      She helps Klaus and says this will be the last time.

                      She didn’t tell Klaus anything of the sort. She told Klaus to get her out of his house after she saw Damon bleeding and didn’t help him (and then called to get him help). But am I understand it right, that you wanted Bonnie to be happy about someone who had kidnapped her and was holding her under duress and threatened to rip her mother to pieces and kill her ex? You wanted her to smile and joke around with Klaus?

                    • Why are you bringing up Jeremy or Anna? I’m not trying to convince you to like Bonnie. I don’t care if you like Bonnie. I’m trying to get you to name a scene where Bonnie complains or cusses someone out. I’m trying to understand why your hate for Bonnie rings like most of fandom’s hollow complaints over Bonnie not being subservient enough, when she never says no. Whether she’s choosing to help or being threatened into helping. And you have yet to name one scene that proves your point.

                      The scenes I am thinking of, she turns down Damon twice, he then threatens her and she helps then after the fact says it’ll be the last time she’ll help him

                      Damon hasn’t threatened Bonnie since s1. And he’s never threatened her for her help. She’s never turned him down either, she’s reminded him that she has power, but that is not the same thing. She has never told Damon, that she would never help him again. This has never happened.

                      But let’s say a scene like this did happen: After Damon has threatened Bonnie, she’s not supposed to be unwilling or unhappy about helping him? She’s supposed to be pleasant and calm and obedient? Does that actually make sense to you? Is this something that actually makes sense to you?

                      She helps Klaus and says this will be the last time. She looses her familia member and gets all sad and says she won’t help again.

                      She helps Klaus after Klaus kidnaps and threatens her. She never tells him that she would never help him again. That never happened. She lost her Abby, because Stefan and Damon killed her and would have killed Bonnie too. She never says anything about never helping them again. I won’t even go into everything wrong with you including Bonnie being sad over the death of family members as a problem for you. (It probably didn’t bother you when Anna was upset over Pearl’s death).

                      She is reluctant to help Elena in about 7 episodes, but caves and helps.

                      This has never happened. This has actually never happened. Bonnie’s priority on the show, like it or not, is helping Elena. She’s never reluctant for about 7 episodes. That would suggest the show would take 7 episodes to let Bonnie be reluctant and that is simply not the case. She doesn’t cave, she always helps. Or she’s threatened. And if you want Bonnie to be pleasant and obedient and smile while she’s being threatened or to be pleasant and obedient and smile to prevent threats (the indication here being that if she isn’t pleasant she’ll get threatened or her family will be hurt and it will be her fault for not being a good servant) then I can’t take your judgments of her seriously.

                      You have still yet to name an actual scene of Bonnie refusing to help.

                      The only time Bonnie has spoken about not getting pushed around was in the s3 finale and she was talking about the spirits of the dead witches. She’s never said, I’m not going to help.

                  • lol okay dokay. You guys win. I guess your right. No idea how I dreamed up, with absolute certainty, that all Bonnie’s character is to me is the annoying character who consistently is reluctant to help, but does so anyway and then sulks about it afterwards. She’s there for nothing more than to provide random rule-less magic whenever the writer’s suck. It kills me. That’s why she’s my least favorite character. I don’t know how I got that impression if she’s not actually like that half of the time.

                    • She’s there for nothing more than to provide random rule-less magic whenever the writer’s suck.

                      Yeah, it’s Bonnie’s fault the writers suck and don’t care about magic.

                      I don’t have a problem with Bonnie being your least favorite character. There are plenty of reasons for people not to like Bonnie, but I’m not trying to win. I’m trying to point out 1) that your characterization of Bonnie doesn’t match up with how she’s portrayed on the show. She doesn’t sulk. She’s only ever reluctant when she’s been kidnapped or hasn’t been given all the information and then she is only asking for information or she’s you know been kidnapped. and 2) Bonnie’s not the reason magic on the show is rule-less and random. The writers are.

                      If you have a problem with Bonnie because she’s always helping no matter how much it hurts her, more power to you, but to act like the solution to her being hurt is for her to put on a smile and behave pleasantly, is ridiculous.

                      I don’t know how I got that impression if she’s not actually like that half of the time.

                      I don’t know either.

    • A Bonnie who is depressed, sad, lonely, unhappy, and taking comfort from someone who wouldn’t mind if she died. Yeah, I can see why that works for you since you don’t actually like a Bonnie who is in control of her life. Smh.

  18. Just a couple of quick things because you guys have said everything that I’m feeling with regards to this episode:
    1.) Not here for Jeremy/Anna- I mean April. Black nail polish? Check. Self deprecating humor? Check. Awkward gestures? Check. Hipster “I don’t greive like normal people” attitude? Check. UGH. She even looked like Anna for a second and I had an immediate and quite negative reaction to her mere presence. I need Jeremy to make up his mind because just a month ago he couldn’t let go of Anna, the love of his life, and was willing to throw away everything to be with her, and now he’s looking at this girl like her pores are dripping with chocolate chip cookie dough chunks and he’s the cookie monster.. BUT THEN that same night he’s giving Bonnie season 2 “Masquerade” I just want to be near you looks. Dude. I think somewhere along the line some wires got crossed between what the show probably wants (Jeremy/Anna-damn I mean April!) and what Steven wants (Jeremy/Bonnie). UGH

    2.) Conner, may you get some, can stay. So far he is the only character introduced who not only makes sense in regards to moving this show forward, but is interesting in that we don’t already have 5 different versions of him represented (or have we ever had a character like him because Alaric is a flop). He’s hot, strong, capable, and focused. I don’t view him as a villain at all because we’ve seen the gang do much worse than what he’s done so far to acheive a goal, but he’s definitely going to be a problem. I’m more excited for the possibilities of this arc than I was about the originals!

    3.) Poor Tyler. That whole “Being a part of a team” speech screamed “Love me fandom! I’m helpful!” I’ve not seen such pandering since Matt begged to be killed in the premiere. Speaking of Matt, I understood why he let Elena feed on him (and apparently will continue to do so), but it just feels so wrong watching these kids bend over backwards to accomodate Elena (and the Salvatores) and feel accepted as a part of the team and yet no fucks are given about Bonnie’s apparent fall into serious depression. It’s even more troublesome because I just know that the fandom, bloggers, and reviewers are going to hype both Matt and Tyler’s sacrifices up as being “heroic” rather than the desparate attempts to fit in that they really are.

    4.) Bonnie, my poor baby, your life is a mess. I need something now to perk her up because her lack of energy is not doing it for me. The fandom seems more accepting of her now that she’s so sad and lonely, but I just hate her like this. Bring on Shane please, and give Bonnie back her magic. I was hoping that she lost her magic but apparently she’s just fearful of using it.

    5.) I liked that the Originals were absent and we spent more time on the ensemble cast. I just wish that the show didn’t feel the need to bring in a milion people for inspiration when they have a strong group like this.

    • Black nail polish? Check. Self deprecating humor? Check. Awkward gestures? Check. Hipster “I don’t greive like normal people” attitude? Check. UGH. She even looked like Anna for a second and I had an immediate and quite negative reaction to her mere presence.

      I didn’t even notice her nail polish. She sounded like Anna while she was being “self-deprecating.” Girl stop. We have enough sad people on this show, and they’ve introduced this girl and expect me to get involved with her pain. She’s the 3rd sad White girl now. Stop.

      I think somewhere along the line some wires got crossed between what the show probably wants (Jeremy/Anna-damn I mean April!) and what Steven wants (Jeremy/Bonnie). UGH

      For real. Lol. Instead of breaking the rules and looking at Bonnie like that, Steven needs to break the rules and start looking at Anna April like he’s not there for her.

      So far he is the only character introduced who not only makes sense in regards to moving this show forward, but is interesting in that we don’t already have 5 different versions of him represented

      This is so true! Connor is the first of his kind. UJ hated vamps, but he wasn’t moving like Connor. Plus, unlike UJ, Connor has no ties to the town. Bill and Alaric did nothing. Not even the pastor was like Connor. I love it.

      It’s even more troublesome because I just know that the fandom, bloggers, and reviewers are going to hype both Matt and Tyler’s sacrifices up as being “heroic” rather than the desparate attempts to fit in that they really are.

      I’ve already seen people saying Tyler took one for the team. They apparently don’t mind how stupid what he did was. Also, most of that “team” either didn’t care that he would die if they killed Klaus or they silently condoned it. Or they didn’t put much of a fight, like Caroline.

  19. Why isn’t Damon dead and no longer on the show? Tyler, the hybrid, got shot from across the hallway with these weird virvain engraved super bullets… they even say if he was a regular vamp he would be dead. Damon gets shot from like 2 inches from his chest… several times… and is hunky dory? Did I miss something? Did the guy who is a badass sniper rifling sharp shooter, not hit Damon’s heart from 2 inches away?

    • Tyler, the hybrid, got shot from across the hallway with these weird virvain engraved super bullets… they even say if he was a regular vamp he would be dead. Damon gets shot from like 2 inches from his chest… several times… and is hunky dory?

      Oh my God. Uggghhhh. This show. This stupid, stupid show.

    • Cause he’s Damon, as the refrain goes. He’s just too strong or whatever to die, despite hybrid status being the only reason Tyler is alive.

      Why was April alive after getting an abdominal wound? Connor stabbed her with a knife and then pulled that knife out so she would bleed out. She coughed up blood.

      It’s that the writers don’t care. Damon wasn’t even knocked out.

      • lol Does anyone care that Connor was at the Mystic Grill… chilling with Matt and Jeremy? Why was he out and about in public, at night, with vamps after him?

        • No one cared last season when Klaus was throwing balls. So I imagine Connor is pretty safe just chilling in the Grille. Plus, he’ll just mess their shit up. He’s not scared of them.

          Do any of the characters even care that Klaus is still alive?

      • April should have died just so that JP can introduce 2 new characters, Mae and June. Lonely, shy and somewhat of an outcast, they come in and immediately form ridiculous and random bonds with guys otherwise unavailable to them 😡 /still bitter

  20. So a vampire drinking from another is sexual now? Guys, think about Mikael! (His awhole M.O. and him forcefully feeding from Katherine and Stefan.)

    *random* Also, Mikael said in 3.09: “Over the centuries I learned to feed from the predator, not the innocent.” Over the centuries… Nothing what can’t be learned by our MF vamps in a couple of days, I guess.

    Plus, remember Klaus manipulating Caroline to drink from him in 3.11 – this makes the whole scene 10 times creepier.

    • It is now that it can be used for the triangle. What makes it creepy (both of Stefan and of the show) is that they basically said, with Stefan’s reaction, that it doesn’t matter if only one party finds the drinking intimate. It’s intimate no matter what. Which means that it doesn’t matter that Elena drank from Damon because she was hungry or that Caroline drank from Klaus because she wanted to survive. Those guys view it as intimate, so that means it is, irregardless of the girls’ motivation for drinking.

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