Episode 102: TVD’s American Gothic

Episode 102

Guest: Cory

This episode is part review and part announcement of me taking an unofficial break from TVD. I’m joined by Cory, who feels that American Gothic was a filler episode.

Quotes of the Podcast: “I’m kind of stepping away  from the show as far as my commitment to it. […]. I’m not gonna be as committed as I’ve always been to making sure I catch every episode so that I can do a podcast on every episode.”

“The fact of the matter is that Bonnie, I still love her; I still stan for her. Basically what I love about her mostly exists in my head now. Mostly exists in my head/ it’s stuff that aren’t totally relevant to her character anymore. […]. If what I love about Bonnie or the reasons I love Bonnie are mostly in my head now or mostly in past episodes, then what’s the point of watching the current episodes? That’s how I’m thinking about it. What’s the point of tuning in if the stuff that I love about her aren’t present and the stuff I want to see her do aren’t happening?”

“The problem with the episode is that, first of all Silas: I don’t think the characters are not acting in a way that would suggest that he’s a threat, because he doesn’t seem to be their priority right now. They keep saying that he’s dangerous, but all they think about is Elena, giving the cure to Elena, and there’s no sense of danger, because they don’t have their priorities straight.”-Cory

On Rebekah, “If these vampires were acting like vampires, maybe it’d be interesting for them to become humans. But considering two of her brothers are vampires, and she’s surrounded by enemies, basically, even if she doesn’t seem to realize it, if she became human she’d probably die right away. There’s no way you can survive in Mystic Falls if you don’t have some kind of special power.”-Cory

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68 thoughts on “Episode 102: TVD’s American Gothic

      • Yep. Just checking lol. I realise now I haven’t talked about something. It’s that with becoming human, also comes the possibility of having kids. But to me, not being able to have kids is not a vampire-specific issue : some humans have to deal with it. So, again, what is the point? What would they gain?

        • This thing is that not being able to have kids affects SOME humans but it affects ALL female vampires. Vampires like Caroline and Elena (and Rebekah) got turned before they could find out of they can have kids. I remember I had this conversation with a Stelena fan who was actually a Stefan fan. It was in season 2 after Elena revealed that she doesn’t want to become a vampire. They were bashing her and saying that she’s stringing Stefan along because she shouldn’t be dating a vamp if she wants kids and she can always adopt if she wants kids as a vamp (this is the ep when Damon forced his blood on Elena). I told the person that not everyone wants to adopt. It’s a choice, adoption, but once you become a vamp adoption is not a choice at all, it’s the necessity.

          But all of them, right now, want to be human for the sake of being human. They all think they’ll grow old, as if it’s a given. After the amount of people the likes of Stefan and Rebekah have killed, they should know that not every human gets to grow old. I’d like to hear them talk about a vampire just like them coming along to suck them dry as soon as they’re human.

          • I agree with everything. They put humanity on a pedestal like it’s the best thing ever. Let’s face it. We get sick, we get cancers, we’re very fragile in a lot of ways. There’s no guarantee of them getting past 30 in human years because accidents happen and humans die easily. If I had to choose, I’d always choose humanity because vampires are demons, but let’s face it, it’s not all sparkles and rainbows.
            Besides, like we said, being a vampire is not an entire change in lifestyle. They are not children of the dark (Anne Rice), they don’t have unsolvable issues with blood (SMeyer), their vital organs don’t shut down making them look pale, inhuman and sickly (Stoker, JWP). They can eat like it’s no big deal that it’s not their usual diet.
            They don’t have to pretend to be humans. That’s what they are…humans with perks.
            And can we address this switch bs? If it’s just turning off your good side, humans can do it too. We, as humans, can also be lunatic and cruel, insensitive towards our peers. We can decide to make people suffer and be mean and not give it a thought for the kicks. Our nature allows us to make this kind of choices too, that we might regret or not later on. There are some humans that can kill with much more sadism than these vampires. There are true psychos out there.
            This switch thing is bs because the fleeting nature of our emotions as humans allows us to “stop caring” too. Sometimes when people go through heavy trauma (rape, death of a loved one, accidents, etc), they develop some kind of catharsis/apathy as a defense mechanism. It is a real thing and having this switch bs doesn’t make the vamps special.
            I think they need to get their facts about humanity checked. They don’t know shit about human beings. They have the most basic understanding of it.

            • They do have the most basic understanding of it. And I think the fact that the writers have reduced it to a simple off/on switch is testament to that. They’ve had two opportunities to explore how mean and nasty humans can be, no supernatural gimmick needed. They had the chance with the serial killer in season 3 but then they revealed that it was Alaric. They had a chance with Shane. If they weren’t going to reveal that he’s Silas, they could’ve explored how opportunistic and greedy humans can be, no powers needed (like the Martins), but no he had a wife who was a witch.

              One of my favorite quotes from Charmed is when Piper said to Prue in season 3 when Prue was convinced that it was a demon breaking into the house in Sight Unseen, “But there are other evils in the world, and some of them are even human.”

  1. Lol, so who will keep on watching TVD? Just to be sure that I´m not alone. I at least have to finish this season.

    I´m going to watch the pilot but I´m not existed about it at all.

    In regards to the spoiler about a Bonnie/Katherine scene. It was Nina´s mom who was on set and tweeted about it.
    If they don´t let Elena react to Katherine being responsible for Jeremy´s death then they probably won´t let Bonnie react to it, so my best guess is that this scene could be about Katherine giving that tombstone of Silas grave to Bonnie or they are speaking about it and how this could help to take out Silas. I think we already discussed when it was introduced that it also contains Qetsiyahs calcified blood that it would be of importance later. And I´m sure Katherine has it in her possession after she killed Massak. But I´m not here for Katherine and Bonnie interacting if it doesn´t start with Bonnie trying to kill her so this scene is probably going to disappoint me.

    I thought about the Silas staking Klaus situation and maybe it was a hallucination from the start, maybe Silas made him believe he staked him with the white oak stake. Because we didn´t really see him taking out the main body of the stake that was in his back.
    I thought we already started with Klaus sweating and rolling around in agony but his wound was already closed and then he tried to scratch open it again. Or did I miss something?

    • I’ll be so shocked if that headstone comes back into play. It could go the way of Qetsiyah’s necklace: introduced, said to be a big deal, and forgotten.

      The way for them to reveal it was all a hallucination is for them to say that Rebekah still has the white oak stake.

  2. Speaking of TO, the synopsis for episode 20 is out

    It sounds so bad. So bad. And it’s sad that the regulars of the show have been reduced to the last sentence of the synopsis.

    Has anyone figured out why Katherine is still around?!

    So wait, the backdoor pilot is going to be within an episode of TVD? Here I thought it was going to come on at 9.

    It’ll be great if this is the lowest rated episode of the season.

    • Didn´t you say that Hayley would probably play the role of the girl who has to be saved numerous times by the male protagonists in the spinoff? That´s already the second time now. First a vampire and now a powerful witch.

      It’ll be great if this is the lowest rated episode of the season.

      I think it will probably do a little bit better than the prom episode because people always forget to tune in after a hiatus but then the week after that remember that the show is back on.

  3. Curious and Exited? Curious and excited? Excited? That’s a bit much don’t ya think? Like, I need a ‘morbidly curious’ option. Can’t get excited for anything.

    • I guess it’s much more curious than excited. I don’t think I’ll check out the pilot because I’m feeling bitter with the spoilers we got so far. I find it ironic that JP plans to talk about witches opression when that’s what she’s been doing to her witches through her writing on tvd. You want to talk about opression Ms Plec? Well, let’s talk about how every vampire in your show somehow has a witch on speed dial, with means of persuasion for a spell or two. Let’s talk about how your “main” witch character is not allowed to dislike her abusers enough to shut them out after the shit they put her through.
      Anyways…I shall not rant. I’m done ranting about this mess. Not worth my annoyance. Julie Plec will not get to me.

  4. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH TVD. Ohh I thought this was the prom episode.

    TVD weariness. guuuuuurl I get it.

    Who’s making something in the background?

    Gat DAMN ARE YOU SERIOUS! smh. racially flipped “Oppression”. *SIGH* not surprised in the least.

    Somehow like he’s incompetent unlike the salvatores and mikaelsons.

    Katherine is going to make Bonnie his slave. -_- over everything so over it.

    Hi Cory. 😉

    Klaus and Caroline get more screen time than Silas and Bonnie.

    SILAS ISN’T THE FIRST VAMPIRE. LOL

    The Cure is … a cd they’ll find or a cassette of the actual band. idk

    king elijah? king?

    Klaus is a thirsty as his sister.

    • Who’s making something in the background?

      Janine was swirling sugar in her coffee. Lol.

      Klaus and Caroline get more screen time than Silas and Bonnie.

      Ugh.

      A lot of people call him King Elijah.

      Yep, he is.

    • Hi,
      “Gat DAMN ARE YOU SERIOUS! smh. racially flipped “Oppression”. – Also, expect Marcel to be an actual villain whose abusing is acknowledged and portrayed as gross and intentions are not made about him having daddy issues or other woobie backstory. Marcel will probably be what Klaus should have been. The fandom will probably hate him and it’ll be okay because he’s black.
      “Katherine is going to make Bonnie his slave.” – She’s already sired to the Salvatore and Elena’s needs.

      At this point, the only thing that could make me go back to being interested in tvd would be Bonnie going dark and plotting Stefan, Damon and the Originals’ death and succeeding. Therefore, we are never ever getting back together tvd.

      • She’s already sired to the Salvatore and Elena’s needs.
        *head desk* Like I really want JP to be a character in one of her flop stories. On some level she probably already is.

        What would bring me back. A revamp of the writers. New writers and JP can stay she would just have noooooooooooooooooooooo control over anything, but she would be LOCKED in with a contract. That would satisfy me so much. For her to be as unsatisfied as I AM. *snort.* Okay as unsatisfied as the rest of us.

        • That sounds delectably diabolical.
          She definitely lives her fantasies through Caroline, so yeah it already happened on some level.
          I try not to hate JP (she is not worth it) even if I still think she’s pretty basic but it’s hard not to when she’s been so rude that one time I asked something on Twitter.
          There are many things wrong with this person and I hope one day she gets called out directly on her… issues.
          The only writer I allow myself to openly hate is Steven Moffat…

          Question: What would you do to make the show better at this point if you were executive producer? Basically if someone came up to you and asked you to “fix” the show, what would you change?

            • I don’t have the exact words because I was hella pissed and I wanted to forget I even talked to this woman.I was asking her a thing, then she replied with something about Bonnie not needing a man to protect her because she was strong and fierce or whatever. And then I told her that Caroline was strong too, yet we were allowed to see her more fragile side. And then she replied something about Bonnie fans being rude while she’s trying to be diverse or whatever.
              I don’t know. Made me really uncomfortable.

                  • Whenever Julie panders to the Klaroline fans yet again, I always think back to that night and get mad all over again. She’d never pander like that to Bonnie fans.

                    • She’s got biases that she won’t even try to hide. She deletes tweets when conversations get awry. She’s not very good at concealing what kind of person she is. Just looking at her twitter and you can tell she’s not very mature. Everytime she writes an episode and compliments actor’s performances, her compliments always go to Ian and Nina. After the Jeremy’s death episode, she was like “Nina did such a great episode”. I noticed she never mentions Kat. She’s got this major fangirl crush on Joseph Morgan. She’s sort of BFF with Candice Accola. Yeah…Does she even talk to Kat? I don’t know.

                    • The only time she complimented Kat on twitter was when she called her performance “fierce” (can a Black actress be any other adjective?) before 2.21 aired, and she was talking about the scene where Bonnie comes out doing the spell and hurting Klaus.

      • I’m sort of hopeful about Marcel (yeah, I know). Since the triangle is supposed to be Klaus/Cami/Marcel, they’re not going to be making the choice too obviously for Klaus while the specter of Klaroline is still hanging over their heads.

        • Well I just hope your hopes aren’t in vain and no one in the triangle gets the short hand of the stick.
          I always thought a triangle only makes sense when the girl genuinely cares about both guys and had a serious, mature relationship with both. The whole “one is her safety belt and the other reveals her risky nature” doesn’t do it for me. It’s expected and there’s no surprise as to which one the girl will end up with.
          They’ll have Candice as a guest I bet, so yes…KC will play a part, which is ridiculous because they are not each others’ great loves. They barely know each other.

          • Triangles don’t make sense to me, PERIOD. For me, it’s the most unromantic type of love story in existence since it depends on the center of the triangle being completely shallow and fickle. If Elena doesn’t love either of them enough to choose, then she should just dump both of them or they should dump her. Or embrace a poly lifestyle and choose both.

            • TVD doesn’t do it well but it can be done well. I’ve seen it well executed, in YA surprisingly. From what I’ve seen, good writers can totally pull it off. It can be quite serious without being petty or silly.
              But yeah, if you pick examples like TVD, Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter, Twlight and others in the shitlist of YA and television…Triangles can be very unromantic.
              Elena’s too much in denial of her own nature to admit she’s already sort of living in a polyamorous relationship. But she’ll never come out about it.

              • I’ll just c&p the relevant passage (and of course it includes Klaroline pandering):

                ”Cami represents an allure to Marcel and ultimately, as a result of Marcel’s interest, will catch Klaus’s eye down the road,” Plec says. ”But in the meantime, Klaus is still very attached to Caroline Forbes and the idea of what it could be like if they were ever to be together. It’ll be a little bit of time before, if ever, he’s able to be distracted from that.”

                • Thanks!

                  As a result of Klaus’ interest? Damon redux, much?

                  What the hell—-where did this Klaroline connection come from?! Why is it being presented as this deep, strong thing?!

  5. For those of you who may not know, there’s an awesome supernatural show called Lost Girl, if you guys don’t know it already. I think it’s worth checking. The first episodes of the 1st season drag a bit, but when you give it a shot, it’s kinda cool.
    I like shows with good female characters (I mean fleshed out and developped). I think Spartacus, Legend of the Seeker and Elementary provide these types of characters.
    Do you guys have any shows with well-developped female characters? I just finished re-watching BTVS, Charmed and Xena and I’m in need of female-empowering figures.
    Any suggestions?

    • I really, really love Joss Carter on Person of Interest and she’s one of my favorite characters on TV, period. She’s very strong and badass, but also very caring and righteous with a lot of personal integrity and she isn’t a damsel who can’t take care of herself. She’s just a supporting character, however, but she has more heroism in her little finger than all of the whiny jackasses on TVD put together. The characterization on that show is just really good in general though. Even Fusco, the bad cop who gets strong-armed into helping, is really well-drawn and sympathetic and his motivations are understandable.

      Once Upon a Time has its issues, but I like most of the female characters, at least the mains. Most of them are pretty strong, with a few exceptions. Sydney on Alias was pretty good, but all the other woman characters were sort of demonized to make her look better. The show did have a lot of really good female villains, however, though sometimes a bit one-dimensional.

      As for other shows, there are a lot of shows that deal with women characters better than TVD. Unfortunately, “better than TVD” still leaves a lot of leeway for suckitude. 😉

      • I didn’t mean “better than tvd”, because as you said, everything’s better than tvd rn…but, I just meant shows you guys liked because I want to watch new shows.
        Thanks, I’ll check Person of Interest.
        I know about OUAT…dropped it because of reasons, but thanks anyways.

        There’s also this show called Underemployed. I’ve only seen two episodes, but I think it’s quite good. It has a real life settlement though. But one of the mains is asian and queer, another is latina without being stereotyped. It looks worth checking out.

        • I like Beauty and the Beast. The love story is kind of “eh” sometimes, but Cat is awesome. She has a nice relationship with both her sister and her cop partner Tess. The main lady (Cat) and the recurring (Tess and Cat’s sister Heather) are woc.

          • Is she portraying a POC? Because I know her ethnicity was erased in Smallville, which is ridiculous because you can tell she’s part asian *sighs*. I know it’s a remake of this show with Ron Perlman in it. I like the original but I don’t think I’ll check out this show because…I never throught Kristin Kreuk was a very good actress. She doesn’t have a lot of presence to me and in Smallville, she just…Anyways, it was Smallville. I don’t like her acting. That’s just personal I guess. She’s meek to me. But thanks.

            I think I’ll step away from the cw for a while anyways. None of their shows I used to watch do it for me anymore. I guess I’m just having a book period since tv disappoints me lately. I’m reading these great books by Lynn Flewelling (The nightrunner series and the Bone doll’s twins) and I’m loving it so much. I’m re-reading asoiaf. I’m re-reading my entire Shakespeare collection. I’m basically just reading all the fantasy/YA I had on my waitlist on goodreads.
            When TV doesn’t do it for me, I go back to the basics…good old-fashioned library.

            • I remember Smallville’s crap of giving her two White birth parents. AlMiles were so gross with her. But yeah, she’s playing her ethnicity on BATB: half Asian, half White. You meet her mom (and there are a couple of flashbacks with her). Her sister (the actress) looks less Asian than Cat/KK, but she is. Their dad is White.

              Her acting is pretty good on the show. In the first two (I think) episodes, KK makes some choices that remind me of Lana, but it’s a good nostalgia, lol. She’s definitely getting different material than she got on Smallville.

              But yeah, I know what you mean about her acting on Smallville. Lol.

              Awesome! Have fun reading! I’m reading Sula by Toni Morrison at the moment. I’m almost done with it. It’s a great book.

              • Well, I’ll give it a shot then. If her acting’s better, I’ll try. “White-passing” actors playing white people is white-washing to me. The erasure of a person’s ethnicity is white-washing and it’s a big deal.
                Yep, on Smallville I really felt like she was here because I guess she has one of those faces that are easy to look at or whatever. I don’t see it but I know how people think, especially white people…

                Lana was a hot mess on Smallville. I just couldn’t. I think her best moments were when she was Lex’s wife. She was much more interesting to watch even if I hated how she was used by Lex against Clark, but the SL was nicely subverted in my opinion. When she came back as a supergirl, it was straight up bs though. Why does this SL even exist?

                I didn’t know about this book, I’ll add it on my to-read list. Ever read Fledgling by Octavia Butler? (because that is how you tackle race issues in a supernatural story *crying over the goodness that is this book*)

                • Yep, it is white-washing.

                  I heard she was the first person casted on SV.

                  Ah, the Arc of Suck. Smh. I’m slowly rewatching Smallville, and I’ve made it a point to pay closer attention to Lana (I’m on season 3 but I had watched up to the middle of season 9 back when SV was airing and then I got distracted by TVD. I did tune in for the series finale, but got home late enough that I only caught half of it :(). I’m enjoying her so far but I’m also not looking at her like she’s a fairy princess. I’m doing the same for Chloe, too. I was so frustrated when the show insisted on portraying Chloe as this great influence on Clark’s life after she found out the secret.

                  If you’re interested, I’ve reviewed seasons 1 and 2 on my lj.

                  I haven’t read Fledgling, but Octavia Butler’s on my to read list. I’ve heard a lot of great things about her work.

                  • I didn’t know she was the first. I know however that she got cast because of how she looks, mostly.
                    Great. I’ll read your metas. It’s been a while since I’ve watched the show though. I watched all the seasons because I enjoyed it overall. But I wouldn’t re-watch. The acting is kind of bad in early seasons, except for Michael Rosenbaum and Allison obviously. Thank god, Tom Welling improves. This kid could not pull it off for his life lol. When he was playing Clark infected by red-K, I couldn’t buy it at all…it was so laughable. But he got better tbh.

                    Yep. Octavia Butler is the shit. Nuff said.

                    Questions: do you prefer early seasons of charmed or later seasons of charmed? which is your favourite season and your favourite sister? Favourite episode? Which storyline was the most stupid to you?

                    • I have an affection for the early season of SV. They’re so simple and formulaic. I don’t think the acting is bad at all. Well, except for the guy who played Pete. Lol. But yeah, Tom did improve.

                      My favorite season of Charmed is season 5. A lot of people hate it, but I like it, although I rewatched Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun recently and holy crap were the nymphs riduculous. Piper’s hair and the Piper/Paige rivalry are what save the episode. But I like season 5 because it’s a nice change after the heaviness/darkness of season 4. I know the episodes in that season aren’t the most dramatic, lol.

                      I prefer the early seasons. My second favorite season is season 2, lol. Post season 5, it’s mostly crap. Some people love season 6, but I don’t. I think the girls slacked off too much and Chris was like the clear-headed one trying to get them back on track. I didn’t like that. It’s the same reason why I don’t like season 7. I love Leo, but he was thrust to the forefront while the girls slacked off. Season 8 again did it with Billie.

                      Piper is my favorite sister! I will love her forever. Lol. I don’t have just one favorite episode. The ones coming to mind right now are Chick Flick, Sense and Sensibility, Is There A Woogie in the House, and a bunch of others I could watch over and over like Muse to My Ears. My favorite episode from season 6 is Witch Wars. I just….I like the concept, lol. Plus there was a lot of orbing in this episode.

                      The stupidest storyline was Paige’s quest to connect to her inner Whitelighter or whatever. It was so erratic and it dragged on. I remember going, “Really?” when, as part of her closing monologue in the series finale, she said, “And I finally found my inner Whitelighter.” Maybe I’m forgetting other ridiculous stories, but this is the first that comes to mind.

                      What about you?

  6. Favorite season : season 3
    Favourite sister: Prue Halliwell but I genuinely love them all
    Favourite episode: P3 H2O
    The storyline I liked the less was the Avatars’ arc. I just didn’t like it and it dragged for me.
    I also like the episode where they’re thrown back in time and learn about the old wiccan ways, and they meet baby Melinda, the first witch of their line.
    I just love everything about the show up until season 6. Season 7 and 8 are obviously awful.

    • I love them all, too.

      I really wish they’d killed the Avatars at the end. I have no idea why they didn’t. It’s been a while since I watched that arc but I remember the girls waiting until the last minute to ask for details of what the Avatars’ world entailed. Smh.

      • They really screwed up with the avatars. They kept getting warnings but they just wouldn’t listen. But you know what? That’s why I like them. They’re allowed to make mistakes, human mistakes. I know they’re getting crap from some fans for wanting to step away from their saviors’ roles, but I can understand not wanting to bear the lives of thousands on your shoulders. Who would want such a responsibility?
        Not everyone can be Martha Jones and walk the fucking earth for a year without flinching to save humanity.
        Being a hero is choosing others over yourself very often (Yikes, Buffy) and I get why they’d rush into it. I like that they were allowed selfishness from time to time, but there was a point where I didn’t get why it was such a problem…just make a schedule or something. Your ancestors managed to keepthe family line going and kick ass at the same time, why can’t you?

        I’ve read your SV reviews, and they were so funny (spiteful, lmao). I always thought Chloe’s crush was never cute. I was like “He don’t want you, Stahp!” from day 1, because you can tell it’s going to go down that road and it’s annoying. Pete was really the stereotypical black guy and I wanted to like him, but they wouldn’t let me. They wanted the guy to be the stark contrast of Clark on every aspect to give him this shit “always second best” storyline. I hope you’ll review Buffy as well and LG, when you got the time 🙂

        • I know they’re getting crap from some fans for wanting to step away from their saviors’ roles, but I can understand not wanting to bear the lives of thousands on your shoulders.

          Me too.

          Yeah, sometimes their complaining was a little much, especially Piper’s. But it never got on my nerves.

          I was like “He don’t want you, Stahp!” from day 1

          Lol. The thing is I didn’t start watching Smallville until Charmed was almost over (only one obsession at a time for me), so I started watching toward the end of season 4. I caught some of the early seasons over the summer and that’s how I got hooked.

          I hated when they brought Pete’s second best thing back in season 7. It was fine when he was in high school (even though it kind of came out of nowhere in season 3), but to have him be in the same place 4 seasons later when Pete’s future is to be vice president? Ugh.

          I probably won’t review Buffy. I was never into it like that, lol (and it’s mostly because Buffy was never really allowed to be happy). But I’ll most likely review LG. Lol.

        • I was fine with it, though Phoebe was right when she said that he was stupid to put things in motion to have them breakup when he knew his life depended on them being together (or at least feeling good enough about each other to sleep together).

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