4.18: It’s time for this season to end. I’m feeling the fatigue.

When a show’s season is about to end, you get that sense that everything’s coming together, that things are building to a climax. I think it’s the second season in a row where I haven’t gotten that feeling from TVD. It honestly feels like we’re still in the middle of the season as opposed to close to the end.

Synopsis
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Extended Promo
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173 thoughts on “4.18: It’s time for this season to end. I’m feeling the fatigue.

  1. There are some Salvatore webclips they release where my reaction is: “Why are they even on this show?” This webclip is one of them. They’re so unnecessary to everything that is happening. Pretty sure Rebekah would do a better job of watching over Elena/coaxing her to turn her switch back on than these two losers.

    “Looks like we have a winner.” I don’t know the context of this line yet, but it sounds as lame to my ears as him saying, “Here we go” after Jeremy ripped his shirt off.

    I think that if this were season 1, then Stefan making fun of Damon for getting his neck snapped in a situation where he thought he was in control would be nice and funny. Alas.

  2. I agree with you on the Salva bros being unecessary. Basically the whole triangle is unecessary at this point because Rebekah could go on her mission to find the cure all alone, she doesn´t need Elena for that. Neck snapped and then stealing that sheet of paper from Elena and off she could go.

    Do you think Caroline saying “I will bring you nothing but misery” is a halluzination of Klaus?
    It sounds so weird.

    I bet they are going to let Caroline try to extract those white oak splinters from the wrong side that means out of his chest instead of out of his back (Silas put it in his back and then even aimed the angle of it up and therefore I think it wouldn´t be smart to try to extract them from his chest) because when she is facing him while extracting them they can give us more tingling tension or something. Also in those stills the place of the wound (at least the blood on Klaus back) looks different from what we saw in the actual scene.

    I also think it is going to be Stefan´s turn to inform us about Bonnie´s mental state this time. Just can´t wait 😦

    • It’s probably a hallucination. If it isn’t, how exactly does Caroline plan to bring Klaus misery? And if it is a hallucination: why does being stabbed with the stake make Klaus hallucinate?

      because when she is facing him while extracting them they can give us more tingling tension or something.

      You’re probably right.

      And yeah, the wound looks higher in the stills.

      Ugh.

  3. Also why would Caroline even help Klaus? If they are not introducing something next episode that will tell us that Silas needs him specificially then she just let him bleed out like Stefan did with Damon so that he can´t move and bury him somewhere/putting him in a coffin etc. All her problems would be solved, Tyler could come back and Klaus wouldn´t die because he can´t move and therefore the white oak splinter can´t reach his heart. And whatever pain he has he would suffer on his own.

    • You are so right! Why isn’t she using this opportunity to help herself, Tyler, and basically all of them? She has the opportunity to rid everyone of the Klaus problem.

      • If she does get the opportunity and doesn’t use it, it’ll be such a ridiculous plot contrivance because she was all for sticking Klaus in Rebekah and encasing him in concrete, wasn’t she? THIS SHOW.

        I seem to remember Daniel Gillies saying something about Elijah still caring what happens to Klaus, so maybe Elijah will intervene once he gets to Mystic Falls, who knows.

          • I remember some Klaroline fans being like, ‘How can she be happy?!!!!’ Lmao

            Oh FFS. Why is this fandom so perpetually stupid. LOL, I can’t.

    • I think it might be Silas possessing Caroline, or appearing in her form, or WTFever they want to do so they can pander to Klaroline shippers. RME. Didn’t the episode description say that Klaus would learn something new about Silas’s powers?

      • Yeah, it does say that. If it’s Silas appearing as Klaroline then how is he going to know Klaus’ deepest fears? I ask this because I’m pretty sure “Caroline” will say things to hurt Klaus’ feelings.

    • Thanks for bringing this over!

      Of course the one thing Rebekah envies of Katherine is her influence over men. Of course.

      How is Katherine able to compel an entire town? This show is so ridiculous.

      I liked Rebekah crushing her bones but I have to say the winner is Katherine cause she hit Rebekah with the truth about her self esteem. So sad.

  4. Any Klaroline scoop for The Vampire Diaries? — Helen
    NATALIE:
    When we last saw Klaus, he wasn’t looking so well, considering Silas had stabbed him with a piece of white oak stake. While we’re used to seeing Klaus care for/hurt/take advantage of Caroline when in a vulnerable state, this time the tables will be turned. As Klaus screams in pain trying to heal himself, Caroline walks in and finds him practically on his deathbed. In light of their recent relationship state, do you think she helps him or laughs in his face?

    Source: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mega-Buzz-Bones-Spoilers-1063206.aspx

  5. Is it me or Bonnie’s prom dress from 4×19 looks an awful lot like Elena’s dress…the front at least? They should have given her a brighter color imo. She would have pulled off a white dress way better than Caroline.

    • I want to see a full shot of Bonnie’s dress but so far it seems like Caroline has the best dress. Bonnie has the best hair. And Rebekah needs to look at her life and look at her choices for being at this prom.

      • Apparently Elijah is going to show up at prom aswell … he should question his life choices aswell.

        I dislike Caroline´s dress. I agree with ellensmithee on that point.

      • Lol Rebekah looks miserable, as always. This is pathetic, for lack of a better term. If I were a 1000 year old vampire, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be here with these kids. I’m pretty sure I’d have other interests, a bit more mature. I’d definitely would not do what Rebekah does. But I don’t know, it’s tvd, where the Originals are basically emo kids with daddy issues who angst about the fact that they never really had a childhood and normal teenage issues, etc.
        These originals are definitely not what I’d expect from millenia-old vampires…

      • I like all the girls’ dresses, but I’ll have to see them in motion before I decide for sure, I think.

        RME at Rebekah (and Elijah, apparently) being at prom. I don’t know, on the one hand I can buy Rebekah being this pathetic because it is true that some people just never grow up. But it’s still kind of sad.

  6. I have a question for you guys. How would you portray 1000 year old vampires? How would you make it obvious in their behaviour/characterization that they are way older than other vampires? Because the writers are clueless and I’m starting to wonder if it is that hard to come up with.

    • For one thing, I would not make then hang out with the kids. I plan on writing Rebekah in this multi-chapter fic that I seriously need to update and one of the things I’m going to do is keep her interest in cheerleading but not have her join the team. Couldn’t she have just happened upon Caroline practicing with the girls and gotten interested and watched?

      I’d make them either more laidback or more irrational/crazy. Either Rebekah or Klaus should be looking at these kids like they can’t even understand the stuff that is coming out of their mouths (not because of language barrier but because they’re so young and their lives should appear petty to them). It’s especially ridiculous because not only are they kids but they’re not Buffy. Bonnie’s a witch and she’s almost killed Klaus so I can see that being interesting to an Original, but Elena? What’s interesting about her aside from that time she was a doppelganger? Why does Rebekah care about the favoritism she gets? Why is Klaus interested in Caroline? What’s interesting about Caroline from Klaus’ point of view? Why did Rebekah start to like Matt? If this show were different, Matt would have a clear place in all of this but nevertheless he’d still be just a human. Why did he attract Rebekah? Why does Rebekah just sit there while she’s read by all of these people from Elena to Stefan to Damon?

      I mean even the Rebekah/Katherine clip is a problem in terms of Rebekah’s attitude (how she’s written). She’s got 500 years on Katherine yet Katherine seems more mature and older than her.

      I don’t think it’s impossible to come up with. They had old vampires on Buffy and they had old demons on Charmed. Demons were different from vamps on Charmed, but they were still old and written accordingly. Cole Turner AKA Balthazar was an old demon (forgot his age), and he dated Phoebe who was not 17/18, yet you always got the sense that he wasn’t of this time (he didn’t know about the show Bewitched). Same for Leo the Whitelighter, who was alive in 1924.

      Talking about Cole reminds me of when he tried to get a job in Paige’s social work place and he got fired on the same day because he had trouble adjusting to the human way of things. Which makes me ask: why is/was it so easy for Rebekah to adjust to the 21st century? Same for Klaus, tbh. Like, these vampires are so old, there should be some awkwardness about them. But there isn’t. Except maybe Elijah who’s not just going to throw his head back and laugh at a joke.

  7. This is why I understand Klonnie much better than Caroline. I understand why Bonnie could sparkle an original’s attention. She’s a 17 year old witch who almost took him down…this has to strike a chord, right? Even the reasons Klaus cites for liking Caroline are shallow and nonsensical, considering he doesn’t know her at all. He would even have been much more in character and logical if he came up to her being a jerk and say “Hey, you’re not bad-looking and I’m kind of bored, fancy a shag?”. I will never get the basis of this ship.
    Rebekah is supposed to be “the girl who loved to much” (lol)…She basically falls for whoever gives her a tiny bit of attention (Kol was right about that though). She’s probably the worse, when it comes to their portrayal.
    I’d say Kol was the best. Psycho? Check. Doesn’t care about Caroline and Elena? Check. Doesn’t make a big deal out of killing people? Check. Scary/Unpredictable? Again, check.
    Kol was the best original in terms of characterization, but I will never get why he was so excited about “breaking the rules” or whatever (*sigh*). Anyways, he’s dead.
    I like how you made the comparison with charmed. It’s true that they made a much better job with their demons. I particularly liked Zankou, which I think has some traits that Klaus should have as a villain.
    I agree about the awkwardness. They should seem out of place. They seem like regular people and it just demystifies them. Nothing, except for how you kill them, makes them different from baby vamps. They are even more emotional and prone to anger than regular vamps. I just don’t get it. I think old age should make you more apathetic to everything. You would need more to be impressed or amazed by anything. They should have awkward habits/manners, ticks and stuff like that.
    Why is Caroline so special to Klaus? Has he never seen a blonde vampire before? Is he a virgin? (oh wait no, Klayley sex lol) I swear I though Klaus never did it. He looks like a high-school kid, being all fidgety and awkward around her. Look at your life, Klaus.

    I think I remember this Cole scene. Didn’t he hit a guy because he was trying to make justice himself?

    • He would even have been much more in character and logical if he came up to her being a jerk and say “Hey, you’re not bad-looking and I’m kind of bored, fancy a shag?”

      Right? Or even if he’d fixated on Caroline because he’s sadistic and wants to torment her.

      Rebekah usually feels like the worst to me too, and I think it’s because she’s also part of a pattern the writers have where they enfantalize powerful female characters, especially female vampires. Rebekah’s a total kid. The male vampires fare much better. Heck, as ridiculous as Klaus is, the protags have feared him more than they’ve feared Rebekah. I remember when Elena threw it in Rebekah’s face that she was basically under Elijah’s control.

      Kol wasn’t different to me until he came back this season. I mean he was also good in 3.19 when he waked Damon with a bat but mostly he was just another lame part of a lame family. At the time, I didn’t understand why he was fixated on breaking Matt’s wrist (breaking the rules like you said). He just zeroed in on him for no particular reason. He looked like a boy trying to ruin his mother’s party. Then he commented on Caroline being hot and I was just like, “Okay, bye.”

      But yeah, he ended up being the best Original.

      He looks like a high-school kid, being all fidgety and awkward around her. Look at your life, Klaus.

      I know, right? Remember when he legit looked bashful around Caroline? I don’t remember which episode it was but there was one where he like looked at her from beneath his lashes like he was waiting for her to pet him. Smh.

      Hayley was Klaus’ first, let’s be real. Lol.

      Yep, he hit the guy. Lol.

    • Thanks, Kathrin!

      Going line by line like I do on the podcast:

      After making a decision that infuriates Klaus

      It doesn’t take much to infuriate Klaus, lbr.

      Caroline (Caroline Accola) finds that her carefully laid plans for the perfect Senior Prom night are disrupted by Elena (Nina Dobrev), so she turns to an amused Klaus for a solution.

      1) How could Caroline have made carefully laid plans for the perfect senior prom in the two weeks since Tyler’s left? Why did she bother? Why is she always “on?” Can she have an off day?

      Determined to get through to Elena, Damon (Ian Somerhalder) and Stefan (Paul Wesley) both attend the prom,

      Yeah, cause they totally wouldn’t have been there otherwise. Totally.

      Finally, Bonnie (Kat Graham) makes a terrifying discovery,

      Here’s hoping it has nothing to do with Elena.

      and Klaus receives a message that could change everything.

      Here comes the backdoor pilot!

      Tell me I’ve lost it, but this episode kind of sounds watchable.

      I think the Neil Reynolds writer is new. And they love letting Caroline Dries write the dress up episodes, don’t they?

      I wish we were skipping 4.18 and going straight to 4.19.

      • Ugh, IDK, this sounds kind of terrible to me. :/

        How could Caroline have made carefully laid plans for the perfect senior prom in the two weeks since Tyler’s left?

        I might be remembering wrong but didn’t she say at some point in an earlier season that she was head of the prom committee? S1? S2?

        Yeah, cause they totally wouldn’t have been there otherwise. Totally.

        All the older vampires need to get lives.

        Here comes the backdoor pilot!

        But we’ll still have the stupid Originals around even after that episode. SMH.

        • I know she was head of the “beautification” committee in season 1. She might’ve mentioned prom committee in season 2 or even three. I didn’t think about that. If she’s talking about the prom’s theme and stuff then okay. But if she’s talking about personally then I’m scratching my head.

          But we’ll still have the stupid Originals around even after that episode. SMH.

          Ugh.

      • I think Elijahs has the cure and doesn´t want to give it to Klaus … maybe he wants to give it to Rebekah but she is conflicted about taking it because of what Damon and Katherine said (that´s why she looks so sad/deep in thought in that one still at the prom).

        I don´t even want to speculate why Caroline would go to Klaus after she has an argument with Elena (but I did lol and I think that she destroys her prom dress and Caro goes to Klaus to buy her a new one) … what is happening between them that she would go to him and not to Bonnie or Matt about that?
        When I first saw the prom stills I thought there would be some big Caroline/Elena moment and she would apologize … or maybe that is still going to happen after she made that day horrible for Caroline?

        Looks like the Salvatores are doing the same thing the third/fourth episode in a row. How refreshing.

        I think that discovery has something to do with Silas.

        Not really excited for that backdoor pilot. Did you see the EW scans with some pics of the shooting and I think some info about it from JP?

        Caroline Dries really seems eager to write all those ball/dance episodes, might be the fourth episode that was centered around those and written by her.

        • what is happening between them that she would go to him and not to Bonnie or Matt about that?

          It’s so weird to me that Caroline and Elena get all this screen time yet JP can’t make them hang out with their friends. Or even each other.

          Did you see the EW scans with some pics of the shooting and I think some info about it from JP?

          Nope. Lol. I’m going to check out the pilot but I have no desire to see anything about it before then.

  8. I dont know the ep doesnt sound that interesting to me, seriously why would Caroline go to Klaus? Seriously why? Urgh.
    Matt needs Rebekah’s help again huh?
    I am waiting for the Bonnie/Elena scene but watch us be disappointed.

    Thanks Alta for the dress links hmm I am not sure. not a dress I would have chosen for Bonnie:shrugs: The dress is cute I guess but it would have been nice to see them go all out.

    • Just wanted to add when I say go all out It would be nice to have had the dress maybe a brighter colour but from the pictures Bonnie looks gorgeous.

    • Why would she go to klaus? That’s why I didn’t consider that it had anything to do with decorations and drinks and music and stuff like that.

      Tbh, I don’t even know why I think this episode will be passable. Maybe because everyone will be in one place as opposed to cutting between MF and a separate location.

      No problem. I wouldn’t chosen another dress for her too. Something more glamorous. It’s prom. If Bonnie’s going to be there, she might as well dress like she’s thought about this day before.

      • I joked that maybe Elena destroys her prom dress and then she goes to Klaus so he can buy her a new one.
        Where is Tyler fitting into this? I thought Klaus would be gone this episode so that Tyler can come back, but how are they going to do this with Klaus being at the prom (if he is) or at least being in town? Is this another “generous” gesture of Klaus? Let that girl dance with her former boyfriend?

        I quite like Bonnie´s dress, I know it´s the prom and we don´t have that here in germany (at my graduation party maybe two or three people wore a real gown) but I think it is fitting for her and her situation with Jeremy being dead since maybe one week. I remember that I wore at least a month no bright colours after my grandmother died because I just didn´t feel like it. But I didn´t go out for some months after that aswell, but it´s difficult to compare this with the shows love for parties and events.
        But if Mystic Falls is a small town then by now the other inhabitants and pupils should question Elena or at least side-eye for her actions. But we never see anybody outside of the group anyways.

        • but how are they going to do this with Klaus being at the prom (if he is) or at least being in town?

          My goodness, I wonder if it’ll be a repeat of the 20s dance. Or maybe Caroline’s night will completely suck and she’ll be in the gym cleaning up afterwards (yes she could just wait until the next day) and Tyler will walk in and surprise her and they’ll dance.

          • I could see that playing out like this.

            This show is doing so much with her relationship with Tyler but at the same time pandering to Klaroline and we get nothing about Bonnie/Jeremy, I hate them so much.

            • I’m so resentful. Someone posted in tumblr that Steven McQueen is in Atlanta and I won’t even think about it too much in order to protect my feelings. Lol.

              But they just shot episode 20, right? Remember that spoiler that, I think, you shared about a character being gone for 5 episodes? We last saw Jeremy in episode 15, though he didn’t utter a word. Episode 20 will mark 5 episodes since we haven’t seen Jeremy. I’m just saying.

              It could be Hayley, who’s been missing since ep 16 but the spoiler came out before the hiatus, when Haley wasn’t on.

              • Hm, I just checked, haven´t seen anything else but I know he was there for Eyecon last weekend and appareantly he was at a Maroon 5 concert in ATL this week.
                They are shooting episode 21 right now. So either he is just extending his vacation and stays longer in ATL or he is shooting again.

                I don´t even remember that spoiler, I only remember the one where two characters will have a longer absence and I think that spoiler meant Tyler and Jeremy.

  9. Here you have your answer Alta about how Caroline is able to organize it, it is part of this weeks episode but she gets distracted by Klaus – so instead of talking to Bonnie and maybe having scenes with her we are getting this nonsense about her working on the prom:

    1. If you are familiar with “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” “American Gothic” contains two major plot points that bear a striking similarity to Season 5’s Ben-Glory conundrum and to The First in Season 7.

    2. Rebekah stabs Katherine with a fork. There is much rejoicing.

    3. Damon is not happy. This is because a) the girls tricked him, b) the girls broke his neck, and c) the girls stole his car.

    4. Damon and Rebekah visit Katherine’s home. The decor — dull suburban furniture, full bookshelves and a fish tank — is not quite what you would expect from Katherine Pierce.

    5. In a rather yucky (but still hot) scene, Caroline takes out her Klaus frustrations with some pliers and some verbal abuse. That’s fair — Klaus pulled her away from not one but three school committees!

    Source: http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/03/the-vampire-diaries-preview-5-things-to-know-about-american-gothic.html

    • The Ben-Glory conundrum? Well Shane is dead, so it can’t be Silas and Shane inhabiting the same body. The only other thing I can think of is the fact that once the Buffy gang saw Ben change into Glory, they all forgot what they saw, except for Spike.

      2. Rebekah stabs Katherine with a fork. There is much rejoicing.

      Much rejoicing by who?

      3. Damon is not happy.

      Such a drastic change from how he usually is. Rme.

      5. In a rather yucky (but still hot) scene, Caroline takes out her Klaus frustrations with some pliers and some verbal abuse. That’s fair — Klaus pulled her away from not one but three school committees!

      Yeah, that’s why it’s fair. I’m prepared for Caroline’s “verbal abuse” to in no way match the stuff Klaus has said to her.

      Thanks for sharing this, Kathrin!

      • The Ben-Glory conundrum?

        Yeah I wondered about that, but did you catch while watching last weeks Klaus/Silas scene that Silas got the stake from Rebekah … how did he interact with her? The last time she saw Shane she thought he was dead on the island. Does this mean that she was manipulated into thinking this and the man lying on the floor was really Silas and he took the stake from her already on the island? But how could he have been wih Bonnie at the same time in Mystic Falls?

        In regards to Klaroline: So it will only be one scene where she takes out her frustrations on him and in the other ones she is going to do what? Helping him? Yeah that´s what she should do. Smh.

        • I wondered how he got it from Rebekah, too. He said something about her mind being easy to manipulate and I felt like it was a lazy explanation for a ridiculous situation (because how could he just take it from her? Why did it happen offscreen? We didn’t even know he wanted it). It reminded me of Sage going into Rebekah’s mind. Just ridiculous and a quick fix.

          Smh.

          • And again the female Original is easier to manipulate than Klaus. The show loves to de-power their female characters.
            Also if Klaus already lived through 52 years of torture with being hunted by the hunters he killed you would assume that those hallucinations Silas is going to cause wouldn´t affect him that much after only one day.

            We didn’t even know he wanted it

            How does he even know about the Originals and that white oak stake? He just woke up from his 2000 years long sleep. And I get that he maybe got some of the memories from those people that visited the well and used their blood to contact their loved ones but you would think that most of those people don´t know about this stuff.

            • Yep.

              Or like Olu said, Klaus would be someone whom is paranoid because of those 52 years of hallucinations. Oh my gosh, do you think Klaus will be slower to realize he’s hallucinating than Elena was? Smh.

              Good question! Silas is just going around doing stuff. Like I said on the podcast: no boundaries and no parameters.

  10. Okay so more scoop on this Klaroline stuff:

    amykinz13: Got any good Klaroline scoop on TVD?
    Prepare for lots of scenes between the fan-favorite duo in tonight’s episode, during which the word “friends” is mentioned several times, as is the name Tyler. The scenes may remind Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans of scenes between Spike and Buffy in season seven of the WB series. That’s all we’re going to say. Oh, and Klaus is shirtless throughout all of their interactions during the hour. You’re welcome!

    Source: http://www.eonline.com/news/402162/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-vampire-diaries-walking-dead-smash-big-bang-theory-and-more

    Urgh I try to remember their scenes but season 7 I almost forgot everything about it. But somebody on fanforum mentioned there were scenes of them where Spike hallucinated her and in the end the real Buffy snapped him out of it. That´s probably what is going to happen.

    • Urgh I try to remember their scenes but season 7 I almost forgot everything about it. But somebody on fanforum mentioned there were scenes of them where Spike hallucinated her and in the end the real Buffy snapped him out of it. That´s probably what is going to happen.

      Didn’t The First abduct Spike and then torment him by appearing to him as people from Spike’s life (as Drusilla, I think, and mainy as Buffy) and then, pretending to be them, mocking him? And eventually Buffy saved him from The First? And then we got this terrible trigger SL? Didn’t it go like this? Poor Caroline. This doesn’t sound good.

    • Katherine’s reason is so irrelevant. It’s been two seasons since this was relevant. They can conjure up an old story for Katherine but they can’t let Bonnie talk at length about Jeremy’s death. They’re so sketchy.

    • 2. Much of the episode is essentially a rousing game of “Hot Potato” with the cure — and you’ll never believe who eventually ends up with it!

      The answer is obviously Elijah. So Kathrin you’re most likely right about Klaus’ fury in ep 19 being due to Elijah having the cure.

  11. I was looking for TVD spoilers and saw that stills for the backdoor pilot are the most recent news. I looked at them and saw this .

    What is this woman wearing? What is she doing? Considering they, just like on TVD, only have on Black character on this show and they’re in ~mystical~ New Orleans this image does not make me think good things. It’d be great if they didn’t resort to caricature crap, especially considering how many Black people are in New Orleans.

    • I don’t see how the Originals could have founded New Orleans, though. It wasn’t founded until the beginning of the 18th century, and Elijah and Klaus were estranged since the end of the 15th century. (Unless, like Mystic Falls, they “founded” it before they left America for Europe despite a NA tribe already being there). Argh, they haven’t shown the pilot and they’re already forgetting continuity.

      • You reminded me of something I totally forgot, that Elijah and Klaus didn´t even hang out together after what happened with Katherine. So that should mean Elijah can´t even be in the flashbacks to the time they helped building New Orleans, it should only be Kol, Klaus and Rebekah and I don´t even know why Kol would hang out with Klaus after he knows Klaus would give up his siblings over this hybrid business. He seemed to look up to Elijah or was that the impression I only got because of him saying “Elijah doesn´t even want to show his face because of their bickering”

        They are forgetting the continuity because when they established those facts they didn´t even think of that spinoff. Now they have to retcon everything to make it suitable for the spinoff and so that they can have the family be together in those flashbacks.

      • I don’t get why they needed to have found New Orleans. JP just wants to repeat that thing where most of her main characters are (invaders) founders of a town. I still haven’t forgotten how she’s done everything to ignore that Bonnie’s ancestors are the true founders of MF, not Elena, Jeremy, Tyler, and Caroline’s ancestors.

    • I’m completely perplexed by the claim that they were just SO impressed by Joseph Morgan that they wanted to base a spinoff around him. I call bullshit. I think it was more that he developed a really LOUD and FANATICAL fanbase.

      But that doesn’t have anything to do with acting: it’s because he’s playing that type of character. Don’t they know this? They’ve been through Spike, Chuck Bass, Logan Echolls, and Damon on their own show, and they still don’t know this? And how do they not understand that “crazy fans” is not the same thing as “lots of fans”?

        • I don’t get it either. I guess they just love their bad boy woobies.

          Anyway, just saw a JP quote and wanted to share it:

          “The choice to keep Klaus past season 3,” Plec adds, “was truly born out of how magnificent Joseph is and how much the audience was connecting to him in spite of hating him. They loved to hate him. So knowing that we had a character that powerful, and that there was a spin-off opportunity there, it let us spend season 4 getting Klaus to the place where the character was ready to be the lead of another show. He’s a villain whose family and the people in his life are constantly searching for ways to find redemption for him, and he’s constantly fighting against that instinct. So now, with luck, we get to make a whole series about it.”

          http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/28/vampire-diaries-spin-off-originals/

          I can’t.

            • JP learned to write primetime villains….by watching soap operas? Because it sounds like she’s writing it exactly like soap operas, not making a single adjustment.

              Klaus might be around to wish Caroline a happy graduation? How great: Tyler stops by for Caroline’s prom and Klaus comes for Caro’s graduation. Meanwhile we’ll be luck if Rudy’s even in the graduation ep.

              • I’ve been calling this show a soap for ages, so this doesn’t surprise me. don’t know why she’s acting like writing a villain who’s convinced they’re in right is something revolutionary – THAT’S STANDARD PRACTICE FOR WRITING GOOD VILLAINS. And she still can’t get it right. And the thing with soap opera villains is that they are usually written three-dimensionally – they are human, they make human mistakes, they love, they occasionally do altruistic things – I don’t think any of the vampires have ever done an actual heroic, altruistic thing EVER in the history of the show.

                • don’t know why she’s acting like writing a villain who’s convinced they’re in right is something revolutionary – THAT’S STANDARD PRACTICE FOR WRITING GOOD VILLAINS.

                  I know, right?!

          • He’s a villain whose family and the people in his life are constantly searching for ways to find redemption for him, and he’s constantly fighting against that instinct.

            I’m sorry, what? Who in Klaus’ family has been interested in redeeming him? Rebekah just wants him to stop treating her like crap, but she’s given up on that now. Elijah hasn’t tried. Kol definitely didn’t try; Mikael wanted to kill him and so did Esther. What is she talking about?

            • It’s just nonsense. Starting with Damon and Stefan’s “redemption,” Julie doesn’t seem to realize that other people can’t redeem someone, it has to come from within themselves.

                  • I know, but I bet JP thinks they’re redeemed. Lol. At the same time though, I can see her thinking that Damon’s still on a journey to be redeemed (through Elena. Always through Elena). And she thinks Stefan came to MF already redeemed. I remember when she said that Stefan’s guilt is enough punishment for him so he doesn’t need outside punishments.

            • Yes, it’s nonsense. Keeping in mind 3.15, I guess they might say that Elijah’s seen the light and might want to change him.

              All other issues aside, his siblings trying to redeem Klaus sounds like such a dull idea for a TV show. Like, I imagine it to go like Damon’s pseudo-redemption SL in S2 – one step forward, two steps backward, as KW and JP themselves said at the time. And I remember how frustrating (and gross-ugh, the grossness of that SL) that was. No thanks.

  12. So I watched the episode and I see all the Elijah/Katherine fans flailing and how she gave up the cure for Elijah. And then I remember that she baiscally did the same in season 3 that Homecoming episode where she convinced Stefan to stop Damon from killing Klaus and therefore gave up her chance to finally take the person out that killed her family. That scene with Elijah reminded me so much of that scene with her and Stefan in the car at the end of 3×09. So what is here the freshness/character growth for Katherine? Only because it is a ship that was only apparent in one episode back in season 2 and wasn´t even mentioned again until now?

    Also what is a Klaroline and that reveal in the end about Silas power was lame.

    • We knew already that Silas can manipulate people into doing/seeing stuff that isn´t real, we didn´t need 30 minutes of Klaus sweating and screaming on the floor to realize this. We already saw this with Shane and Bonnie back on the island and the group should know too after what happened with Bonnie.
      The Klaroline plot was unnecessary and aesthetically unpleasing.

  13. Rebekah is so stupid. I fucking can’t. And Elijah uttering his delusional crap about Elena again…ugh. Shut up Elijah, you know nothing. Klaus+Caroline scenes seem a major waste of screentime. At least, Caroline gets to speak her mind. Congratulations Caroline on being allowed to speak by the writers (*eyeroll*).
    I’m so not here for them trying to portray Elijah as a knight in shining armour or a tragic hero…Seriously, they need to stop. I’d rather not have him in the ep if he’s going to be this annoying.
    Btw “You gave me your word that you would talk to Klaus, I can’t make that deal without you.”…way to sink your own ship, Katherine. Look at your lives, all of y’all.
    In other words, these vampires lives still suck (The angst, lol). I wouldn’t want to live forever if I was going to be like these bitches.
    “You don’t have a smart brother” – You bitches are a bunch of dumbasses, so yeah.
    Okay, I’m repeating myself but Rebekah just turned left to Pathetic alley, went down Desperate boulevard and ended up right in Delusional town. Bitch, wake up. Kill her off, please. She is such a broken record. She is painful to watch, to listen to. I can’t.
    “Friends then?” – the hysterical laugh that came out of my mouth when Klaus said that was not human. I think I stopped breathing because I was laughing so hard…it sounded like a joke. He wasn’t serious, right?
    Basically, I felt like landing on the wrong side of fanfiction, again, with these bad fluffly fics where everyone is ooc.
    This episode is a lot of fanservice and very little to no plot. I don’t know what Alta plan on commenting on in the next podcast, because there is almost nothing of relevance happening here. Like Kathrin said, we already knew about Silas…it was shown to us before. This is no reveal.
    I can’t take Tvd seriously anymore…
    It’s okay, I still have TB and LG. I can live on.

    • She is such a broken record.

      I can´t get over that her last scene with Elijah was at least the third or fourth time that she spoke about turning human and another vampire tells her that she can´t solve her problems with turning human. Do I have to hear that from every character on the show? And if Rebekah doesn´t turn human (which she probably doesn´t will because what would be her real place on the spinoff) all those scenes are a waste of screentime. I could get Bonnie for that.

      I guess the episode was good for Elena. And it looks like Elena is out to torture/hurt every person next episode according to JPs q&a on twitter and of course Bonnie and Caroline probably have to take it because it is not “her”.

      • I don’t think it was that good of an Elena episode. All I saw was a lot of talking, but not much doing. She did not even snap Damon’s neck herself. She didn’t get the cure. Yeah, she hurt Damon/ Stefan/ Elijah’s feelings but…It wouldn’t be the first time. She doesn’t need to be a vampire for that. She didn’t get to get the cure in the end. She just talked and people were upset. That does not make her badass or interesting to me. She still seems clueless and she doesn’t have any agency, therefore she seems to act in accordance to how she thinks vampires are supposed to act. She’s not driven and her desire to hurt literally stems from nowhere.
        Besides, this episode was much more about the originals than her imo.

        • I´m not really interested in this doppelganger meta but I guess there are probably Elena stans who can write you essays about it and I think they could be happy with what the got of Elena this episode?

          This episode was very heavy on the dialogue and meta and self-reflective I guess but in the end for example all the talk between Klaus and Caroline was wasted after their last scene where Klaus said something about them becoming “friends”? What was even this.
          The same goes for Stefan´s talk about starting his own life away from Elena, is this really going to happen? We know that it probably won´t happen.
          And then all this talk of Elijah trying to bring back the old Katerina … paralleling to the Salvatores trying to cure Elena.

          Besides, this episode was much more about the originals than her imo.

          Definitely they are setting this stupid spinoff up and I´m not reallly interested.

          Also does Elijah even know about Kol being dead, during his whole scene with Elena where she speaks about Katherine causing Jeremy´s death and him being so shocked and angry I could only think of her and Jeremy killing Kol and if the writers just forgot that or Elijah is completely in the dark about it.
          There goes all the talk of “they stick together no matter what” – probably only means Elijah/Rebekah/Klaus … the other siblings are forgotten.

    • I’m not excited about the ep, but I’m glad to participate. I wonder if Bonnie’s dress is gonna be like the Theia gown they showed on Tumblr. KG is beautiful, but this is not the best dress they could have gotten her. I’ll leave it at that.
      I don’t understand why people talk about Bamon in the promo though. I didn’t see anything. Two people talking to each other is not necessarily a shipping scene, right?

  14. Congratulations TVD, in these last few episodes you have successfully managed to kill what little interest I had left in seeing how the season would end.
    This episode was just a mess. I don’t really know how else to describe it. Stefan and Damon are annoying the hell out of me. I’m sick of seeing Katherine. Elijah’s only been back for one episode and I want him gone already and I couldn’t watch those Klaroline scenes properly, they were just ridiculous.
    They seem to be spending more time setting up for the spin-off than they do building up to the finale and its starting to feel like what ever they do have as the finale is just going to be thrown together at the last minute. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Silas is still alive well into season 5.

    • They seem to be spending more time setting up for the spin-off than they do building up to the finale and its starting to feel like what ever they do have as the finale is just going to be thrown together at the last minute.

      Also, if you’ve read the EW article about the Originals, Julie says that the pilot storyline will play out on TVD if the pilot doesn’t get picked up. Which sounds like the show could very well turn into the Originals with a side order of Delena/Stelena if the pilot goes nowhere.

      • Julie says that the pilot storyline will play out on TVD if the pilot doesn’t get picked up.

        See, this goes with my comment to Laura. The first half of season 5 is going to be a mess, because JP and Dries cannot pull this off.

        • I almost wonder if they have no plans at all for S5 at this point, with half the characters gone and an apparent reboot in the works. I’m guessing they’re just waiting to see how the pilot goes before they make any plans. If the pilot fails, for example, I’ll be very surprised if Tyler shows up again since they’ll probably go ahead with the Klaroline.

          • I’m guessing they’re just waiting to see how the pilot goes before they make any plans.

            It’s really bad if they’re doing this because they’re already supposed to be laying the ground work for season 5 in these last few eps.

      • Also, if you’ve read the EW article about the Originals, Julie says that the pilot storyline will play out on TVD if the pilot doesn’t get picked up.

        Where does she say this??? I haven’t been able to find the quote.

        *facepalm forever*

    • At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Silas is still alive well into season 5.

      You think there’s a chance they’ll kill him? I never thought that. The moment they actually had Silas rise, I knew they’d 100% keep him around for next season. That’s what they did with Katherine and Klaus.

      Season 5, at least the first half of it, is already in trouble, in my opinion, because of this: Julie Plec has no idea if the spinoff is going to succeed. Caroline Dries is going to be in charge in her absence, but if the spinoff doesn’t get picked up then they have the task of re-including Klaus into TVD’s world. It’s going to be a mess because neither JP nor Dries are the type of producers who can plan for two possible storylines. I’d bet 5 dollars that the series finale will have little effect on the first half of season 5 (well, less effect than it usually does -__-) because honestly? They have no idea what Klaus’ future is. From all the links we’ve posted, it feels like it’s a cinch that the spinoff proper will happen, but no. The CW still needs to order 22 episodes of the thing by fall. And because of that uncertainty, I feel like the first couple of episodes of season 5 will most likely be just as chaotic as these last couple of episodes of season 4.

      • Season 5, at least the first half of it, is already in trouble, in my opinion, because of this: Julie Plec has no idea if the spinoff is going to succeed.

        THIS. I think that’s one of the reasons why they cleared out the cast, to prepare for the contingency of the spinoff getting cancelled early so they have to bring all the Originals back. Until then they’ll probably have a bunch of guest stars or something.

        Right now the spinoff is clearly a higher priority than TVD itself and it’s hurting all the characters.

    • He kissed Elena believing it was Katherine but after that kiss immediately realised that it´s Elena.
      And he was very angry about Katherine causing Jeremy´s death, looked angrier than Elena about that. He argued with Katherine about it. He didn´t really do anything else.

      Don´t know … maybe it could happen in episode 19.
      Don´t think we will see Elijah after episode 20 again. Daniel is shooting for Saving Hope again.

  15. Also something is bothering me with this new Elena … we saw that she was keen on killing Caroline only after she was bothered by her dancing with Stefan/commenting on her eating on the contest (or whatever reason she had) but here you have the Salvatores and she doesn´t even try to snap their necks at least once. Already last week her wing(wo)man Rebekah had to interfere because she couldn´t go against Damon but this week she is demanding from them that they let her be and stop finding the cure for her and she goes after a innocent human and kills her to use this as a warning. But why should the Salvatores care? They killed hundreds of people. Why can´t Elena go after the Salvatores and kick their asses. I would prefer that instead of innocent people being killed and this being sold as “badass” of Elena.

  16. I still have absolutely no desire to see what happened in the latest TVD episode, and it has nothing to do with Bonnie being absent. I just legit have no interest in knowing what’s going on with the plot and characters. I’m so close to quitting! :D.

    But I’ll watch it though, so that I can respond to you guys’ comments and, of course, do the podcast.

    • I was thinking she’s probably just canon fodder in that ep and that’s why she hasn’t been listed as a regular. Though it’s conceivable they’ll have recurring witch characters if they’re having a “witch revolution.”

      • I’m thinking this, too, but I’m ready for JP to write more witches talking to each other without the presence of vamps and about non-vampire things than we’ve ever seen on TVD.

        • Me too. I’m excited about that focus in general, though I’m guessing they’ll manage to make it suck in ways we can’t imagine.

          It also occurred to me that if Michael really isn’t come back next season, they’ll have effectively moved the werewolf plot over to the Originals as well.

    • That definitely sounds like Tyler is only coming back if the spinoff gets picked up. It also sounds a lot like Jeremy and maybe Kol are returning (if only as ghosts to schlepp Silas off to hell).

      • That reminds me of how Klaus disappeared in the books, lol. Some ghosts schlepped him away.
        Or maybe Silas will use their faces to speak to some characters.

        Also got the feeling that the return of Tyler´s character stands and falls with the success of TO.

        Also there is more talk about The Originals pilot episode here: http://25.media.tumblr.com/4f24930e42505d5e77f39dea4d779faf/tumblr_mkndvjkGde1qhxmh2o1_500.jpg

        They make it seem like Caroline is Klaus one true love and he couldn´t fall in love with somebody else for a long time. Rme.

        “if ever” – reminds me of what she said about Damon once on twitter when somebody asked her if he could fall in love with another woman.

        • Haha, that’s where I got the idea with Silas.

          I can’t help but thing that’s the dumbest thing Julie is saying about this. They must be assuming they won’t be getting any new viewers. Can you imagine coming into a brand new show and liking a ship, only to discover the showrunner has said he and a character on a show you don’t like are end game? Why should new fans even bother then?

          • Yes, I completely agree with this. This is so weird.

            It reminds me of something Kevin Williamson said during S2. I recall him saying that he and the other writers knew that they were getting no new viewers and it was all about writing for the following they already had. I remember that because I thought at the time that it was such a weird thing to say about a show that was only in its second season. Maybe JP is of the same opinion?

            • Oh, that could be. I guess it makes sense then? Still, it’s a weird way to go about making a new show.

              The only thing I remember about S2 is Julie saying that the fan reaction to Damon killing Jeremy made them realize that they don’t have to actually redeem him to get him together with Elena.

    • When we decided to turn Elena into a vampire we didn’t want it to be easy. We didn’t want it to be a cakewalk. We needed her to run the whole roller coaster of emotions and of that experience of stuff so she wouldn’t just be, “Oh I’m a vampire, now let’s party and I’m happy.”

      You mean like you did with Caroline?

      In the next episode they recruit some of her friends, as well over the next couple of episodes, in an attempt to get to her any way they can emotionally, whether it’s through nostalgia, memories, through sneaky tricks of confronting her with things she has had feelings for in the past.

      As always, I do not want Bonnie involved. I haven’t decided if I’ll even watch her scenes in the next ep, but please don’t let her be involved in this. It’ll leave a bad taste in my mouth if they screwed over Bonnie’s story in order to have her trying to get through to Elena.

      You know, we keep trying to think of those and weirdly enough, we find ourselves stumped more often than not.

      WHY? Is it because you approach it from the pov of, “How can we make this completely about Elena while making sure this group does not win?” It’s too late to be introducing new creatures anyways. The time for that was season 2.

      Ultimately, Bonnie is always going to walk a straight line and do the right thing, and when she’s not in control of her own magic and behaviors it really puts her in a place that she’s gonna fight really hard to get out of.

      Am I the only person who thinks this reads like gibberish? And how can Bonnie not be in control of her behaviors and magic after they’ve stressed that witches can not be supernaturally controlled? What the hell, Julie? And if Bonnie’s supposed to get out of this, you’ve gotten off to a bad start by erasing her memories as well as her voice by making Silas the active agent in the story.

      Her answers about the relationships sound like complete bs. I think she prefers Delena over Stelena because she prefers Damon over Stefan. The only thing I believe her about is Forwood, even though she doesn’t care about Tyler. And I think she doesn’t give a crap about Beremy.

      • As always, I do not want Bonnie involved.

        Sigh. I don’t want anyone except the Salvatores involved in this storyline, TBH. But they probably will be. Sigh.

        Am I the only person who thinks this reads like gibberish?

        It sounds like she’s saying Silas will be trying to control Bonnie? Maybe the “horrifying discovery” that Bonnie makes in the next episode is that Silas can make her do things against her will?

        And how can Bonnie not be in control of her behaviors and magic after they’ve stressed that witches can not be supernaturally controlled?

        I’m trying to remember…witches are resistant to compulsion, since they’re supernatural, right? And Bonnie said this season that witches are naturally resistant to manipulation, but I’m not sure whether we’re supposed to take that statement as fact. We also saw that Shane was capable of hypnotizing her, if I remember right?

        she doesn’t care about Tyler

        They’re clearly totally fine with shafting him in terms of screentime, but oddly enough I actually think Tyler’s had more of a narrative than many other characters on the show…of course, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Plec doesn’t care about anything on TVD as much as she cares about her shiny new toys, the Originals.

        • I’m totally prepared for Caroline and Matt to be involved because they’ve been the go-to people for stuff like this since season 3. But please, spare Bonnie.

          Maybe the “horrifying discovery” that Bonnie makes in the next episode is that Silas can make her do things against her will?

          And that’s something a lot of Bonnie fans have been speculating since Shane started hypnotizing her (and it’s, Silas/Shane MAKING her do things, something I didn’t want).

          And Bonnie said this season that witches are naturally resistant to manipulation, but I’m not sure whether we’re supposed to take that statement as fact.

          We’re always supposed to take it as fact until they retcon it change their minds because this series doesn’t have a single character who’s actually an expert on anything. There are no Elders, no Giles, no Council (like on Buffy). This stuff isn’t written down anywhere.

          Shane was able to hypnotize her, but he wasn’t using magic. With Shane’s “You sure about that?” or whatever before he suggested to Bonnie that she take her earring off, it seemed like they were saying that Bonnie’s a little wrong. The problem is that the text never acknowledged it by having Bonnie react that there was a flaw in her belief. Ugh.

          I’m pretty sure, if witches are suddenly able to be manipulated now (short of a possession/trance thing like Esther put Bonnie in in season 3. They never explained what that was either and Bonnie didn’t care to wonder) in order to show us that Silas is reeeeaaallly powerful. Because it’s totally in JP to screw over her canon for the witches in order to build her new villain.

          They’re clearly totally fine with shafting him in terms of screentime, but oddly enough I actually think Tyler’s had more of a narrative than many other characters on the show

          Wait, do you mean for four seasons straight or just for season 4? Because I think Tyler was largely devoid of a narrative in season 3. Season 1 was only laying down the groundwork. The only narratives he’s had are the transition storyline and the freeing the Hybrids thing (which eventually fell apart, not just in canon, but writing-wise). I mean the latter ends in him having to go on the run for his life. While that could be a logical ending because of what he was trying to do, it left a lot to be desired the way JP wrote it.

          • and it’s, Silas/Shane MAKING her do things, something I didn’t want

            Even from a purely technical writing perspective, this is a terrible storytelling choice. It’s Writing 101, making your characters responsible for their own actions, nine times out of ten that’s what makes for better drama.

            We’re always supposed to take it as fact until they retcon it change their minds because this series doesn’t have a single character who’s actually an expert on anything.

            Well…I know this sounds horrible but to be honest I didn’t really believe that line from Bonnie because…I think Elena manipulates her very easily. I don’t know. Maybe I’m horrible for thinking that. But it’s the first thing that came into my head. 😦

            Shane was able to hypnotize her, but he wasn’t using magic. With Shane’s “You sure about that?” or whatever before he suggested to Bonnie that she take her earring off, it seemed like they were saying that Bonnie’s a little wrong.

            That plus his “safe word” for her? Safe phrase? “You are in complete control.” It actually seemed to work on getting her to back down in one of the episodes, was it episode 11? It wasn’t very clear, though.

            Because it’s totally in JP to screw over her canon for the witches in order to build her new villain.

            Mmm hmm.

            Wait, do you mean for four seasons straight or just for season 4? Because I think Tyler was largely devoid of a narrative in season 3.

            I did mean four seasons straight…I actually see a continuous throughline in Tyler’s narrative from S1-S4 but I won’t try to push my reading on you, LOL, especially since the execution was subpar.

            • It’s Writing 101, making your characters responsible for their own actions, nine times out of ten that’s what makes for better drama.

              Exactly. If TVD writers did this, we wouldn’t be repeating so many plots.

              Well…I know this sounds horrible but to be honest I didn’t really believe that line from Bonnie because…I think Elena manipulates her very easily. I don’t know. Maybe I’m horrible for thinking that. But it’s the first thing that came into my head.

              Lol. She did say “all kinds” but I think she meant “supernatural.” Like compulsion. Which…and this points at a problem with the writing of the show as well as its myopia, but why would Bonnie say with all authority that witches are immune to “all kinds” (or maybe she said “manipulations” which is still the same thing) if she only knows of one kind? How does she just know that there aren’t other types of supernatural manipulations where someone can get into your head and make you do things? Myopia in the writing, that’s how. The supernatural world isn’t bigger than Bonnie’s knowledge of it until it’s necessary for her to not know something (like Expression and the Expression triangle).

              Of course it wasn’t very clear -___-. Ugh.

              No, go ahead, lol. You already know how I feel about Tyler’s narrative. I’d like to read about how you see it. The only thing I think they’ve been consistent with wrt Tyler (and I’m pretty sure they don’t realize it) is him being controlled. That’s been there from season 1: first his father, then the moon (I mean the moon had no intention since it’s inanimate but I meant wrt how Tyler feels), then Klaus. And I say the writers don’t realize it because they’ve never had Tyler talk about it or realize it. Carol was saying that Richard would be proud of Tyler as if they had a kosher relationship -__-. Whenever JP talks about Tyler pre-Caroline, she always only says that he was an asshole jock.

              • How does she just know that there aren’t other types of supernatural manipulations where someone can get into your head and make you do things?

                Yes, this is another reason why that line didn’t make sense to me. I was like, “But how would Bonnie know?”

                The only thing I think they’ve been consistent with wrt Tyler (and I’m pretty sure they don’t realize it) is him being controlled.

                This is actually exactly what I was going for. Maybe I overidentify, IDK. :/

                And I say the writers don’t realize it because they’ve never had Tyler talk about it or realize it.

                He actually did say it in S3, he said it was why he was OK with being sired, because he never had any control over himself before, so what’s the difference, at least this time he doesn’t have to go through the painful transformations every month.

                So that’s the narrative I see for Tyler: trying to break free of other things or people, especially abusive father figures, who control him, and trying to wrest agency for himself. I see a lot of Klaus-Richard parallels.

                And over and over again, Tyler thinks OK, maybe THIS time I’ve done it, but each time it doesn’t work out: though each time he does gain a little bit more true freedom and autonomy, he moves from more limited agency to testing those limits. In S2 and early S3 he was OK with just getting through the transformation every month and letting Caroline organize things. Then he got turned into a hybrid and didn’t think to fight for freedom because he’d never had it to lose in the first place. But then he does get motivated to break the sire bond, and once he’s done that, and stands up to Klaus in a way he never got to stand up to his dad, he’s moved onto a place where he can try helping other hybrids, or try actively taking the hit from Connor for the rest of the group. But ultimately he’s swallowed up by the abuse cycle and the only thing he can salvage is to get out of it with his life intact, and a life away from his abuser: but a lot of abuse victims would count that as a victory, TBH.

                It’s a brutal, tragic narrative but also…really sadly true to life, so on some level I don’t mind if it’s intentional writing or not (like, even the scene where Carol says his dad would be proud of him? It happens all the time in real life. Especially when the abuser is dead. People reach back and put on rose-colored glasses about the abuser and the relationship because it’s more comfortable that way. It’s complicated.)

                About JP’s interviews, you know, on a more general note, I really don’t take her interviews at face value anymore? Showrunners lie in interviews all the time, and it’s becoming more and more obvious to me that a lot of what she says is a flat-out lie, doesn’t match up to what’s going on in the show, and it’s not just her misspeaking or not getting it, it’s that she’s just speaking in a quick shorthand for the average casual fan in order to sell the show. I mean, you know what I think of her writing, LOL, I still think she’s awful, but I don’t take her interviews as any sort of guide to the writers’ thoughts or intentions anymore.

                OMG SORRY ABOUT WRITING SO MUCH

                • He actually did say it in S3, he said it was why he was OK with being sired, because he never had any control over himself before, so what’s the difference, at least this time he doesn’t have to go through the painful transformations every month.

                  He was only talking about the moon, though, nothing about his dad. And while I liked that scene (I think it’s the one from after he knocked Caroline out), I didn’t like how we hadn’t even seen Tyler change since season 2. And the one time he did, he was doing it to traumatize Carol.

                  OMG SORRY ABOUT WRITING SO MUCH

                  It’s okay! Lol. I like reading how you view it.

                  • It’s okay! Lol. I like reading how you view it.

                    Oh ok, good. 🙂

                    I was ok with Tyler not bringing up his dad explicitly because this show silences all the victims about their abusers, and you know, sometimes it’s just hard to say it out loud. I’m fine with stuff like the scene where Caroline says even after everything her dad’s put her through, he’s still her dad, you know? And Tyler nods like he gets it. It’s about the most you can hope for on this show TBH.

                    (To go off on a tangent: overall one of the biggest things that makes me sick about this show and its fandom is how people don’t get that sometimes you can’t talk about things out loud. With almost all the characters. It really just…*sigh* It drives me crazy because victims not talking about their abuse and their abusers is a realistic reaction, but the show doesn’t do it because it’s realistic, the show does it because they care more about the abusers and how sad they are that nobody loves them, SMH. And then fandom acts like the victims aren’t owed sympathy or respect because they haven’t spoken up about their pain, when it shouldn’t be ON the victims in the first place. I’m not expressing myself very well, but anyway. I hate it.)

                    • That’s true, but on the other hand, the way the show itself (almost) never acknowledges the abuse, which a lot of people who have no idea how abuse works take to mean it’s not happening or that the character is somehow complicit in it (which you just said) OR that the character is somehow justified in his actions (which I’ve seen in other fandoms, though – people don’t seem to like admitting they have a rape/abuse kink and so they find ways to justfiy why the character is “right” or somehow not an abuser/rapist). Not to concern troll, but I look at some of these very young Klaroline/Delena fans and wonder what their relationships are going to look like once they’re adults if they think the way the guys treat women on this show is “hot” or “romantic.”

                    • Replying to myself because for some reason ellensmithee’s comment doesn’t have a “Reply” option next to it, but this is in response to what you said, Ellen:

                      ITA, of course. Sorry, it’s late and I’m sleepy, what I meant was that there are ways to show that the abuse is wrong, and show the POV of the victim, without necessarily having the victim list, A, B, and C, this is what he did to me and this is why it’s wrong, etc. There are other ways to do it, while still depicting victims who’ve internalized their trauma, who can’t speak openly about their trauma, and so on. A victim who has been silenced is not the same thing as a narrative that silences the victims. You know?

                      And fandom so often doesn’t know the difference, which makes me uncomfortable because it’s putting it all on the victim to get themselves justice.

                    • And then fandom acts like the victims aren’t owed sympathy or respect because they haven’t spoken up about their pain, when it shouldn’t be ON the victims in the first place.

                      The show not acknowledging it becomes super tricky when the conversation gets to Elena for me. Because there are people who think Elena is as much a victim as Bonnie, Jeremy, Tyler, etc are, and I don’t agree with that at all, and the reason I can is because I’ve never seen Elena react to the Sals the way Bonnie and Jeremy have or the way Tyler has consistently reacted to Klaus post biting Caroline. I think Elena is mistreated by the Salvatores at times, but abused? A perpetual victim like the others? Eh. And it’s because they DO write power-play scenarios for her to show that she can hang with them. So I think that Elena and the Sals are mutually destructive most times and problematic with things like the Damon and Stefan wanting to use the sire bond on her. She’s not trapped like some like to think she is and nor is she scared. While we can say Bonnie, Jeremy, Caroline, Matt put up with Damon (and Stefan in Bon and Jer’s case) because of Elena, the buck stops at Elena. Who is Elena putting up with them for? No one. She’s not “putting up” with them. She likes them, loves them, and wants them in her life.

    • I can’t deal with this show anymore. I can’t. How come Bonnie wasn’t allowed to be mean to Elena after her love interests killed her mother and wanted to kill her For Elena? If Elena works her jaw to be cruel to Bonnie of all people, then she can go screw herself. It’s gonna kill me, even if I don’t watch it and only hear about it, when Bonnie just grins and bears it.

      And Elena’s switch being off is not an excuse. Screw that. Her actions are too consistent. When it was Damon who’s switch was off, everyone treated him like the asshole he was, including Elena at times. So no, she doesn’t get a pass just because her switch is off.

      • It’s gonna kill me, even if I don’t watch it and only hear about it, when Bonnie just grins and bears it.

        I’m not sure that she will grin and bear it, necessarily? They’ve mostly had Caroline on the brunt of Elena’s words this season, both during the girls’ night and in the cheerleading episode. It’s true they write Bonnie not really standing up to Elena anymore but I still don’t think they’ll have her just lying down and taking it. At least, I hope not?

    • but in the last three seasons, the bloodsucking fiend has developed into one of The Vampire Diaries’ most complex and multifaceted characters.

      No.

      The thing about Klaus is just as soon as you start to like him and believe he’s a better person, he goes out and slaughters 12 hybrids with a sword or kills someone’s mom.

      That pretty much describes Damon, especially circa season 2. Heck, Elena recently brought it up while they were on the island.

      She’s convinced she wants to be human again, wants to love, which he can’t really get on board with or understand.

      I don’t get JoMo’s interpretation here because it clashes with him saying that Klaus thinks he’s in love with Caroline. So how can he not understand Rebekah wanting to love?

      He’s wanted to see his brother for a while

      How long is a while, because they sure haven’t shown that on the show.

      • This might be a weird question but do you think he knows/cares that because of his character and that Klaroline pairing it is possible that another person could lose his job? I know it is not his fault because the writers are doing it but I think I would feel bad about it if some other actor gets shafted just so that I can stay longer on this show.

        I agree with you about the Klaus = Damon in that regard. And it is so not interesting, but it looks like that´s all the writers can do when it comes to big bads.

        Also this:
        Oh no. He spent 500 years chasing Katerina. No, he’s a man who bears a grudge. Your perception of time when you’re that old is a little different. It doesn’t mean revenge has to be immediate. The Mystic Falls Scooby Doo Gang put him down at the end of season three and he hasn’t even forgiven them for that. He’s chased Tyler (Michael Trevino) out of town. Klaus has done a few things to move towards that, but he’s not the kind of man to let a grudge go.

        That´s total crap because we never even saw him chase down Tyler. And we shouldn´t speak about Katherine, because when did he even mention her again.
        This is JoMos attempt to explain Klaus lameness

        • I don’t think he thinks about it. I mean he’s already on the show. You’re talking about another actor who COULD be on the show, right? Or are you talking about MT?

          but it looks like that´s all the writers can do when it comes to big bads.

          Yep.

          Yep, it’s his attempt. Poor JoMo. His character is not what he wants him to be. At least he can relate with his co-stars in that regard.

    • The thing about Klaus is just as soon as you start to like him and believe he’s a better person, he goes out and slaughters 12 hybrids with a sword or kills someone’s mom. I believe until the end of this character, whenever that may be, I’ll continue to go through these cycles of vulnerability. He has his ups and downs, which is what makes him such a wonderful character to play.

      Damon 2.0 tbh

      And, really, what’s so interesting about these “cycles of vulnerability”? It’s stagnation. That’s not very entertaining. Like, weren’t even the Damon stans tired of Damon lashing out every time when he felt vulnerable in S2?

      The Mystic Falls Scooby Doo Gang put him down at the end of season three and he hasn’t even forgiven them for that. […] Klaus has done a few things to move towards that, but he’s not the kind of man to let a grudge go.

      Lol, is this a case of JoMo having headcanon? Because that’s not what I’ve seen. I guess the writing wants us to believe that Klaus holds a grudge because that’s how he was initially characterized in S2.

      I always say this family is one that can do horrible things to each other, as long as no one else does anything to them

      *side-eye*
      We’ve already talked about how it’s Klaus doing horrible things to Rebekah and not the other way round.

      It’s amazing. It’s epic and a bigger story. […] We’ll see the world on a bigger scale.

      Ehh, I have a hard time believing that because I know JP’s priorities. I doubt that things like world-building will suddenly start to interest her.

      • Ehh, I have a hard time believing that because I know JP’s priorities. I doubt that things like world-building will suddenly start to interest her.

        The new shiny will come along, and she’ll shaft the Originals like she shafted TVD.

        I haven’t heard anything about the Tomorrow People in WEEKS with all this Originals drama. I hope her neglect pays off and it doesn’t get picked up. I don’t know if I can handle her destroying my childhood on top of everything else. 😉

      • Like, weren’t even the Damon stans tired of Damon lashing out every time when he felt vulnerable in S2?

        Some of them were. Others wanted JP to “stop hurting him.” -___-.

        The new shiny will come along, and she’ll shaft the Originals like she shafted TVD.

        It’d be hilarious if that actually happened. And then the new shiny could get a spinoff and it would just keep going. Lmao. JP’s going to get bored with writing for Klaus after the first season (if the show picks up). She’ll get bored writing for Hayley by the middle of the first season.

        I wonder if Hayley will remain a tomboy. I honestly don’t know any(girl)one would want to be her friend, considering her attitude.

        • Some of them were. Others wanted JP to “stop hurting him.” -___-.

          I’m just so baffled by these stans who are so convinced that Damon has it the worst and is the show’s emotional punching bag. (And coming to think of it, it’s not just his stans because I remember some journalists saying the same thing.) Like really, that’s what you take away from the show?

          These “Stop hurting Damon” stans weren’t happy viewers either. I remember them being like “There’d better be something good in store for Damon pretty soon or else”. I guess they were hooked viewers and maybe that’s enough for JP & co.?!
          Maybe I should clarify that I don’t think that a TV should try to keep its viewers happy all the time. Absolutely not. I just don’t get why they’d make a SL the foundation of a show when pretty much the same SL was done with a different character previously and didn’t prove to be very popular. I just don’t understand.

          • Those victim!Damon stans are still going strong. There was a poor Damon whinefest on tumblr the other day, and when a Bonnie fan tried to commiserate about people bashing her character, too, she was told to grow a thicker skin by the same whiny Damon fans. Nothing can compare with Damon’s pain, guys! Then the “Elijah cares more about Jeremy’s death than Kol’s” wank started and distracted everyone so it died out before it got much bigger.

            • and when a Bonnie fan tried to commiserate about people bashing her character, too, she was told to grow a thicker skin by the same whiny Damon fans.

              This is hilarious and sad. Smh.

            • Those victim!Damon stans are still going strong

              This baffles me like nothing else. There are genuinely people in fandom who believe that “Poor Damon” is a sentence that makes sense. Of course, there are people who think we should pity Klaus, so I guess the stupidity isn’t just limited to Damon stans.

              I. Don’t. Understand.

  17. I spent the last couple of miles of my drive home wondering if JP really approved a script where Elena is a jackass to Bonnie. I’m fixing to tell Elena about herself. She better go worry about her red streaks and leave Bonnie alone.

    • No one gives Bonnie the tenth of the respect she deserves on the show…Gosh, so glad I quit. I can’t watch this happen to her anymore. It’s never gonna stop. They don’t give a crap about her. It’s so riring. I’m tired of rooting for a character when I know it’ll only get worse for her at this point. They took her voice, her fire, her ability to stand for herself…can’t.keep.watching.this.

    • It just occurred to me, though: what would Elena even say to Bonnie, to hurt her? I can’t really think of anything? I can easily think of things she’d say to Matt or Caroline (and she will), but not Bonnie?

      • You probably can’t think of anything because Bonnie’s pretty much a stranger to Elena, lbr. Honestly, the only thing I can think of is that Elena says something to Bonnie about Jeremy being dead. *Cringes.*

        • Well, I can think of things, but they’re all really extreme, over the top horrible. I can’t think of anything that they would let Elena actually say because they have to go back to Elena with her switch on at some point and I do think they want to protect the Elena-Bonnie relationship to some degree. I could very well be wrong, obviously.

          • and I do think they want to protect the Elena-Bonnie relationship to some degree.

            Really? I don’t think that. Like Emily’s comment reminded me earlier (at least I think it was Emily), this is the same JP who said in season 2 that there was no taking it too far with Damon because people would forgive him anything. I don’t think JP is concerned about the Elena/Bonnie friendship at all. The only people she tries to please, wrt Elena, are the Stelenas and Delenas. So she can write Elena to do anything to Bonnie as long as she appeases those people in the end.

            • Hmm, maybe you’re right. I don’t think JP cares about the friendship in its own right, but what I meant was that I don’t think they want to have Elena doing anything too horrible to Bonnie, even if her switch is off. But I could be completely wrong.

  18. I hope it’s ok if I answer one of ellensmithee‘s comments here, because for some reason her comment doesn’t have a “Reply” button next to it (maybe the thread got too long):

    That’s true, but on the other hand, the way the show itself (almost) never acknowledges the abuse, which a lot of people who have no idea how abuse works take to mean it’s not happening or that the character is somehow complicit in it (which you just said) OR that the character is somehow justified in his actions

    This. Because most people don’t have any idea how abuse works, so if a show is careless in depicting the reactions of an abuse victim then what you end up with is dismissal of the abuse at best and victim blaming at worst.

    Take Caroline and Bonnie’s at girls’ night. Neither of them say a word to Elena about the real problem they have with Damon, and when Caroline does say something, it’s completely the “wrong” issue, she calls Damon a manwhore. But what people don’t understand is that this is nothing out of the common for a rape victim. Not just because for some people it hurts too much to say the words out loud so they project on something else, not just because most rape victims are taught to be ashamed of themselves for having been raped (and Damon certainly did his utmost to make Caroline feel that way and continued to do so even as late as season four, I would say), but because from Caroline and Bonnie’s point of view, Elena already knows. She knows! She knows everything there is to know about how Damon has abused them, she knew while it was happening, she knew from the very beginning, and she didn’t care. At least, she didn’t care enough to let it stop her from becoming friends with Damon, and falling in love with him, and to keep feeling that way no matter what he did. So, why should they risk bringing it up and having her confirm their fears and tell them, “You know what I know he abused you and I don’t give a fuck.” It HURTS to have a friend tell you that to your face. So you talk about something else instead. Or you just keep quiet (in Bonnie’s case.)

    But fandom doesn’t understand this. And clearly the writers did not write it this way with this intention in mind (it could be that they’re unconsciously making use of what they know to be the real life reactions of abuse victims to make it easier for them to not talk about the issue.) But there’s a way to write Caroline and Bonnie acting the same way they did at the sleepover, without denying or erasing the abuse they suffered at Damon’s hands. Give them a scene together with just the two of them afterwards, where they talk about it without Elena. Or use flashbacks (if Elena got her compelled memories back in live video, that means Caroline must have watched Damon raping her when SHE got turned, right?) Or something. There’s a hundred and one things they could do but they don’t do any of them. Instead they invalidate the other girls’ dislike of Damon and fandom reacts with, “Oh Bonnie’s fine with Damon, she works with him all the time and even jokes with him!” and “Caroline doesn’t blame him for the right reasons so who cares that he abused her.”

    • Yes, to all this. Sometimes I get the feeling the writers try to have Caroline express her problems with Damon, but then they undermine it almost immediately with someone accusing her of being judgmental – to the point where even professional reviewers bitch about how judgmental Caroline has become.

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