4.15 Reaction Post: Well I think I’ve taken about all I can from this show.

They’ve killed Elena’s last family member. And for what? For what? 

To highlight how sad her life is? How tragic? To what end? What happens next?

This was a good episode for Elena and Nina did a great job. The thing is that I don’t care to see anything past this. What is after this? Her thing with the Salvatores? Because she doesn’t have anymore family. Not only that but despite what people say, she’s not actually here for her friends. So if Jeremy is truly dead or since Jeremy is truly dead, then….what? Where is Elena’s humanity going to be?

I’ve never been here for the show killing off Elena’s family. I’ve never seen the upside/bright side/point to it. This show kills her family off like it’s sport. After Jenna and John died, did she really need to lose any more people?

After Alaric died (I don’t care about him, but she did), did she really need to lose anymore people?

I’ve watched shows where the protagonist loses people. It’s not new to me. But it’s always meant something. I’ve always seen the point. I don’t see the point here! I haven’t seen the point since season 2! None of those deaths have changed Elena’s life in any kind of way. What did she do that was soooo different after John and Jenna died on the same day? What did she do that was soooo different after Alaric died?

I’m used to the protagonist losing a family member. It’s a trope, really. I’m not, however, used to it not mattering. And it doesn’t matter on this show.

Kudos to them, though, for letting Elena react to Jeremy’s death. It’s the longest she’s reacted to any of her family’s death since…..well since ever, imo. And it’s good that they let her react. Considering they’re going to move on from it next episode by making her switch everything off and party and bullshit.

Next up is Qetsiyah:

She created the other side? Like Olu told me: Qetsiyah and Silas get more powerful every single time their story is told. Every time!

Was Qetsiyah human? The writers aren’t writing her like she was human. They’re writing her like she’s a myth. Like you know how some greek gods exist pretty much to explain why the earth works the way it does or why nature works the way it does?

That seems to be Qetsiyah!

“Hey, where does The Other Side come from? Why does it exist?”

“Well honey, once long ago, there was a woman named Qetsiyah. *Insert story about Silas/Qetsiyah/woman here.* And from that day on, we’ve had The Other Side.”

  1. Qetsiyah created the other side.
  2. No one stopped Qetsiyah from creating the other side.
  3. What the hell?

And that’s the thing. “What the fuck?” Because you can’t just say that Qetsiyah created the other side. You have to tell me WHAT existed before then. You MOST IMPORTANTLY have to tell me WHY no witch stopped Qetsiyah. I’m talking about dead witches.

Because no, you can’t make me watch Bonnie suffer because of rules, rules, rules, and then tell me Qetsiyah did this thing without infraction.

They won’t even say that Qetsiyah was able to do it because there were no rules at the time.

No, they just say it and leave it because at this point Qetsiyah isn’t a real person so much as a tool to keep the story moving forward and make it grander and grander.

Does this lady still sound real to anyone? To me, this is akin to the writers telling me exactly how old the vampire species is. I now know exactly who created the other side. And it was this one person. Two thousand years ago. That’s too much information.

Why would bringing the veil down bring make everyone come back to life? THEY’RE DEAD! THEY’RE OVER THERE BECAUSE THEY’RE DEAD!

And ya know what else? The veil WAS brought down once, and guess what! Everyone came back.



And they did say that just dropping the veil will bring these people back to life. When that’s not how it worked the first time.

Also, Bonnie was able to bring the veil down with her regular magic. But keeping it down is soooo much of a stretch that she needs 36 deaths and Expression? O….kay.

I mean Bonnie in this episode was fine. I liked her reactions. She has that glassy look in her eyes now, and she apparently needs to be fixed now more than ever because she’s “out of her mind.”

Silas is a vampire, which is the opposite of what I wanted. He’s being played by David Alpay, which is good, but still doesn’t excuse him being a vampire. But SINCE he’s a vampire, I just realized something:

Here we have yet another vampire climbing on a witch’s back to get something done because they’re useless and can’t do anything.

And uh, may I ask why Silas is so invested in dropping the veil? Is that how he plans on bringing chaos to the world? Does he not realize that dropping the veil will mean Qetsiyah will come back to life, and she can just kick his ass all over again?

He’s not doing it for his grand love because she was human when Qetsiyah killed her, and according to Silas…she’s gone forevah.

When the house was burning and Stefan looked back, I wondered if they were going to say later that he actually rushed back and ran Jeremy’s body out of the house. Maybe that’s delusional of me.

But you’ll have to forgive me for being delusional because I’m watching a show that tells me that Fate and Oxygen had sex and made it so that Klaus survived being burned.

Oh, we saw Jeremy’s shoes on fire?

Yeah, we also saw Klaus’ entire body catch on fire.

JP got herself out of a done deal/impossible situation once. I’m just saying.

I won’t talk about that thing that was hugging Bonnie or the bullshit that was said about it.

Maybe I won’t quit. Maybe I’ll come back for episode 16 like an idiot even though I abhor this show with every fiber of my being because of nonsense writing like the one we got in this episode. Maybe.

But I needed to write this post.

Although the aforementioned thing makes my stomach churn, and I have no desire to watch Bonnie go through that and have it presented as kosher. Didn’t want to see Elena go through it, even though I grew to accept it, don’t want to see Bonnie go through it, because Bonnie isn’t Elena, and this crap has not been shoved down my throat since the pilot, forcing me to accept it. So maybe it’ll succeed in keeping me away.

And if I do quit, I’m glad I did after what I consider was a good episode for Elena that was well acted by Nina. Even if I’m quitting because of the type of writing decisions that allowed Nina to bring her A game.


53 thoughts on “4.15 Reaction Post: Well I think I’ve taken about all I can from this show.

  1. Maybe Silas wants Qetsiyah, I mean his whole time down there he should have been fixating on her.

    I thought those were Elena’s shoes.
    Narduchi or whatever his name is … Elena/Nina was good and I actually liked the last delena scene. First time ever! because it wasn’t sexualized or romanticized it was desperate. ugh. She is like a doll now. Feels.

  2. I don´t even know with this episode …

    So Silas is really a vampire? He is basically only an older Original vampire, did they use the same spell on him? So can he be killed like the other Original vampires aswell with a white oak stake?
    I lost most of my interest in him … I don´t even know how he is able to imitate Shane´s body. Is this some kind of new vampire power you will get if you are 2000 years old?

    I´m at loss about the other side stuff … if supernaturals are trapped there, what is with Jenna? She died as a vampire and went therefore to the other side … but Esther said “she moved on” … so why can she move on but for example Silas wouldn´t be able to move on?

    I hate that Katherine was working with Vaughn … how is that even possible? Vampire can´t see a hunters mark and the group only knew about the hunters mark and that Connor is one because Jeremy was a potential. How did she find him? And why somehow was Hayley involved in all of this? They are trying to set up the spin-off with the mention of her and New Orleans and it doesn´t make any sense. I remember some days ago on fanforum in the spoiler thread somebody came with this theory of Katherine and even Hayley working with Vaughn and I only thought, gurl that is so impossible, how can you come up with that. And in the end she was right. Smh.

    I don´t know since when but I just don´t care about Caroline anymore. She bothered me the whole episode, every scene she was in. I can´t believe this happened but I´m glad when she is not in an episode, and I feel bad about it but I just can´t change it.

    I liked the emotional scenes we got with Matt, Elena and Bonnie, even though I was more than irritated by Zach´s acting.

    I knew Silas!Shane would get Bonnie with the halluzination of Jeremy and how she tried to save him, that was heartbreaking and a really good parallel to what happened in 3×21.

    I hate that they used the sire bond to turn off Elena´s humanity, I really hate it. They took away her natural grief process.

    I´m probably the only one but I wasn´t a big fan of the scene where Elena set the house on fire. First of all April knew already that Jeremy is dead because Elena told her … so that cover story won´t even work. And then probably because in my opinion it´s a mistake to destroy all of those memories of her family and her old life, I know every person is different but I remember that I did something similar to that (not with fire) after a loved one of me died and I regret it so much up until now. Of course it´s also a different situation because Elena is a vampire and she will live forever but I just didn´t like it.

    I don´t get that the group would drive Bonnie home like she is crazy for what she suggested but then not even offer to look after her (maybe a sleepover for the girls) … because nobody knows if she would already start that sacrifice. She looked so determined, she has a total tunnel vision, so why would they leave her alone? Also she should have been the one with Elena and the Salvatores (because those are always there) when Elena broke down. Caroline was not necessary at all.

    Just a quick mention, I thought that scene with Rebekah and Vaughn in that well was really scary, I haven´t felt that creeped out because of the show since a long time … thought that was done pretty good by the actor who plays Vaughn.

    And is Shane dead now or do you think Rebekah can save him? He didn´t really look dead-dead.

    I don´t have any word for what they are trying to do with Damon and Bonnie …

    • I’m guessing he can be the same way. I mean why not?

      My opinion in him appearing as Shane and all these people is that JP hasn’t decided if he’s actually going to stick around (which is also why David Alpay is playing him and they haven’t hired an actor), so she feels comfortable giving power not associated with vampires. Because there’s no Silas should have the power of illusion. Especially when JP did away with the whole crow thing in season 1 because she felt it was too supernatural.

      With this new information about the other side, they’ve created more of a mess. Now it’s even more stupid that Anna couldn’t find Pearl considering they were in the same place. Then at the end of Ghost World all the ghosts were okay with going again because they’d found peace, but…..according to this info they just went back to purgatory. And Sheila’s just cool with chilling in purgatory? What? I don’t understand no group of witches would come together to undo what Qetsiyah did. Why would they be okay with going to a place she created, especially when it wasn’t made by Nature?

      They jumped through a couple of hoops to connect Katherine with Vaughn and Hayley. Vaughn said she knew about the hunter’s mark but how? This story is so lazy.

      “Elena stop it, you’re scaring me!” Like girl, be quiet. She was so unnecessary. Like Olu said, she didn’t have a one on one scene with anyone who mattered. Instead sitting with Elena, she was outside talking to Stefan.

      I hate the Salvatores. They get to own the scope of their emotions, no matter how ugly, but they control Elena’s emotions like nothing else I’ve seen.

      That’s true, April already knows that Jeremy is dead. And she called the HOUSE PHONE.

      After Bonnie tried to kill Damon, Elena just took Bonnie home and left her there like everything was okay and Bonnie couldn’t just go back and try to kill Damon again.

      Yeah, the scene with Rebekah and Vaughn was very good.

      I think Shane might be dead dead, but I’m not sure.

      What they’re trying to do is a travesty. It just makes no sense.

  3. I stopped watching the show and started watching the last few episodes and I think I will go back to not watching the show. Because I dont get anything that is happening the Silas/Qesiyah sl doesnt make any sense to me. The way the witches are being written is super annoying so what are they doing? Why is no one trying to stop or trying to communicate with Bonnie?

    Someone on Fanforum mentioned how Silas probably wants to bring back his dead gf I dont know if she was supernatural but :sigh: I am sure that could easily be changed and now I am thinking that is what will happen.

    The whole Katherine/Vaughn/Hayley reveal was random but as soon as NO was mentioned it was quite clear they are setting up the spin off.

    Another random moment was Bonnie/Damon I still dont get it.

    Think I will go back to reading you guys recaps.

    • The way the witches are being written is super annoying so what are they doing? Why is no one trying to stop or trying to communicate with Bonnie?

      This. Qetsiyah is the first witch they’re telling me about where I’m like “No.” I said no to Esther but that’s because she was annoying and a moocher. I didn’t question how she could create vampires. But I am questioning how Qetsiyah could basically create a hell for supernaturals without anyone stopping her. She doesn’t sound real. She sounds like a plot device. I mean this woman is Bonnie’s ancestor, but now I’m having trouble picturing her doing anything that would be required to continue the line. Like, what was her life after Silas? Because Silas isn’t Bonnie’s ancestor.

      His woman was mortal, but yeah I’m sure they’d willingly change it.

      This was a good episode for Elena, but a bad episode storyline-wise.

  4. So … those 12 hybrids that Shane sacrificed can come back but the 12 council members not? Why didn´t he use 12 hybrids/vampires for the first sacrifice aswell and if they really go through with this other sacrifice (which they probably won´t) they could take another 12 vampires/hybrids to sacrifice ,,, they would come back anyways.

      • You´re probably right, but vampires won´t work? Is it because of the werewolf part
        that the hybrid sacrifice worked or is there another reason.

          • Then if only the number is important and Bonnie could use vampires why is it any different and more crazy from what the group already did? They sacrificed thousands of vampires to complete the hunters mark on Jeremy´s body and awakened most of the Originals from their sleep (and didn´t know what they would be like) and also Mikael and let Klaus break the curse before they tried to kill him. It´s like throwing stones while sitting in a glass house. Everybody in this group is crazy then.

            • They’re ridiculous. I don’t think vampires should work and I don’t think the Hydrids should’ve counted, but I think that now that the show wants to portray dramuh, they’re going to say that Bonnie need to let 12 humans die.

              And I think Shane already has those people lined up. There’s no way he wouldn’t. The problem is: how the heck does Silas know who they are?

  5. Also I really liked the theme during that scene when Silas!Shane told Bonnie about the plan with shots to her telling it the group … is this one new? The “Silas” theme or the “In some seconds April Young will call” theme?

  6. JP explains herself: http://tvline.com/2013/02/22/vampire-diaries-season-4-spoilers-julie-plec-jeremy-death-elena-humanity/

    The way she talks about Katherine makes me roll my eyes. I mean I can see it, but man I’m tired of her explanations.

    When all is said and done, everybody recognized that in the worst possible scenario, which is what they were in, it truly was the only viable solution. It doesn’t make it good. It doesn’t make it happy. But it really was the thing that needed to happen to release her from her pain. So I don’t think anyone’s going to hold a grudge.

    Classic JP TVD writing. “Oh here’s this tragic thing that’s going to change Elena foreveeeerrrrr. Actually lol no, the plot needs to move on and I can’t spend a string of episodes writing Elena dealing with this tragedy, sooooo how about a quick fix it?!”

    Does she not realize that she’s cheapening Elena’s grief, Jeremy’s death, and Jeremy and Elena’s relationship? The same relationship that she exploited in order to make Jer’s death pack a punch with the viewers? Jeremy was the last thing keeping Elena’s humanity in tact. Such a big deal. BUT his death needs to be quickly swept under the rug because the plot must go on.

    Those two things don’t jive.

    • Caroline hasn’t moved in, but she is there with her shower caddy. There’s still vervain in the water, and the Salvatores have the only vervain-free water in town because of their fancy water filter.

      But didn´t she try to clean the floor last episode with water, didn´t see any burn marks then.

    • The reason I wasn’t feeling it as I was writing it was because I was disassociated from the trauma, which is exactly what, ultimately, Elena had to be, when all was said and done. I was in my own form of detached, dissociated denial, which of course is my great life crutch. It was the perfect episode for me to have written, and it was ultimately very interesting psychologically.

      Are you sure it’s not because you write these types of episodes too often? -__-.

      There’s still vervain in the water, and the Salvatores have the only vervain-free water in town because of their fancy water filter. It’s a fun way for the boys to be basically going about their morning business, discussing what to do about Elena, and in walks Caroline in her cute little robe and shower caddy, like, ‘Well I have an idea!’

      Her OT4 are together.

      Where does Caroline stand with Klaus right now? Did the spinoff change the direction they were going in, at all?

      No. If anything, the spinoff is just another version of an obstacle. Caroline and Klaus is a very, very tricky relationship, in that we can all understand why she’s drawn to him, because we’re drawn to him. But Caroline is not the kind of character who would ever comfortably let herself go there. It’s a constant battle of fighting the attraction that’s very clearly brewing, but knowing she can never go there and still be true to herself. Something would have to change, whether it’s Caroline’s character who changes or Klaus’s character who changes, or circumstances that change, before we as writers would ever legitimately think about putting them together. You can look at the Caroline/Klaus relationship as something that will live on, in a way, even when he’s not on the show. The want is still there.

      Wow, so Caroline has two relationships that will “live on.” How glorious.

      I remember a few years ago, you used to say that no matter what bad thing Damon did, the fans would never condemn him; now Klaus is in that position. No matter what he does, the fans love him.

      We fight with each other and with ourselves as writers, because we genuinely love Klaus in spite of all his effed up behaviors and his darkness and his terrible, terrible attitude and his evil. Joseph gets a little tear in his eye and gives Caroline a puppy dog look and you just want him to have everything he wants. We get mad at ourselves for being so weak about him. Our goal has always been not to over-compromise the moral core of our characters even as they’re making really, really complicated decisions about their romantic lives or their sex lives. Caroline has been a very interesting character to have in the center of those relationships.

      She’s so wrong about everything.

      • I realize that the comments about Klaus and Caroline are probably just fan service to keep the Klaroline fans watching the new show till they find a new self-insert to ship him with, but that has to be one of the dumbest things Julie has ever said in an interview. Why should anyone even care about who the two of them are involved with in their respective shows now when the showrunner has already said that the two of them are eventually end game for each other? I have a special loathing for Klaroline, but if the two of them really are going to be end game, then Julie should give them a proper storyline instead of teasing a happily-ever-after that will never be shown (not that any of the characters will ever get a HEA or even a proper storyline. I suspect that part of the point of the show is that the vampires are doomed and won’t ever actually get a HEA because they don’t deserve one). But, my bad—that’s assuming these showrunners are even capable of delivering a proper, satisfying storyline that makes sense.

        For all that this show is all about the ships, I have to say that, as a long-time romance reader/soap watcher, I find all of the love stories on TVD to be the most unsatisfying romances I’ve ever seen (and yes, I’m including the old bodice rippers).

        /rant of a long-time lurker 😉

        • Hi and welcome! *Waves*

          I don’t understand the point if saying that them being on. Two separate shows is just an obstacle. They aren’t Buffy and Angel. Those two still loved each other on their separate shows, but not even they were presented like JP is talking about. And I highly doubt she’ll go down in history as the first producer to have a big love with people from two separate shows. If their connection is so important then why are they going to be on two separate shows.

          You’re right that JP has yet to write a good triangle. When Stelena were together in seasons 1 and 2, she didn’t set up any reason for Elena to want to be with Damon at that point in her life. Then season 3 came and she built Delena, but she forgot to write reasons for Elena to want Stefan at that point in her life (while he was killing people and making her worried sick). This season, Elena’s rarely in her right mind, but JP is writing it so that she clearly wants Damon.

          Also, towards the end of season 3, JP made the jump of Elena jus having feelings for Damon to her feelings for Damon BEING EQUAL to her feelings for Stefan (that’s why Elena felt that she needed to choose). And that felt too fast to me.

          She can write both relationships. She can write Stelena, and she can write Delena. But I don’t think she’s succeed in showing the dilemma that Elena is supposed to have.

          And it’s the same thing with Caroline’s situation. I mean I don’t think she can write Klaroline, but she hasn’t shown the dilemma that Caroline is supposed to have. I’m not sitting here going, “I don’t know which one she should choose!” I think she should just choose one. It’s clear to me.

    • It’s always planned a long time ago. That’s always her answer.

      With Elena’s emotions shut off, is the sire bond gone since that’s emotionally based?
      Plec: I give a gold star to whoever launched that train of logic because we do deal with it right when we get back.

      What the heck does this mean? Why is her answer phrased like this? Who launched the train of logic? Is she talking to the interviewer?

      I’m looking forward to her words on Bonnie. I hope it’s good.

      • This makes no sense to me because they made such a big deal about the sire-bond having nothing to do with emotions. That whole conversation Elena had with Tyler was to establish that her being in love with Damon had nothing to do with the sire-bond; it only affects what you do and not how you feel.

        • It makes no sense. They can’t say that her having her emotions turned off throws off the sire bond. That makes no sense. Since when did the switch have anything to do with the sire bond.

          Also, they ruined the whole “The sire bond affects what you do, not how you feel” thing because Damon has essentially affected how Elena feels. The writers are idiots for thinking they could separate emotion and action so cleanly.

          • It makes no sense. But I could see the writers’ reasoning being that the sire bond is rooted in emotions – it happened because Elena had feelings for Damon before she was turned with his blood. And now that her emotions – and thus her feelings for Damon – are turned off, the sire bond is no longer working. Again, it makes no sense. But I could definitely see the writers using this explanation to keep the triangle going.

  7. And here is another one: http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/02/22/the-vampire-diaries-julie-plec-on-jeremys-death/

    When’s the next time we’re really going to dig into the Silas aspect of this mythology?
    We very, very quietly slow-play it in the next episode, but in the one after that, we start to see what his plan is with Bonnie and if he’s going to be successful in getting her to do what he wants to do. And Stefan and Caroline — and Klaus, of all people — figure out what going on and and try to put a stop to it.

    I don´t know … I would prefer it to be Matt that figures out what happens with Bonnie. Give this guy a storyline. And I´m sick of Klaus.

    • I’d prefer it being Matt too, since he actually saw Bonnie. Take Klaus out, geez.

      ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So, did you cry as much as I did last night?
      JULIE PLEC: I’ve now seen it 47 times and then writing it, [I] shed buckets of tears, so probably not as much. But I still have my emotional attachment to it.

      This contradicts what she said in the other interview: that she felt emotionally detached while writing it.

      Now, Jeremy’s body has been burned, but some people still don’t believe he’s dead. Are they in denial or do we have reason to hold out hope?

      I think the storytelling truth of this show is that just because somebody is dead doesn’t mean you’ll never see them again, which, I think helps temper some of the grief when all is said and done. But his body is burnt so he is no longer on this Earth.

      Didn’t she say at some points last season that Klaus’ body was definitely burnt before she started saying that we didn’t SEE it burn even though we kind of did?

      Tell me what we can expect from Vampire Elena minus her humanity. Is it Katherine 2.0?

      Yeah, but it’s Katherine minus all the machinations and the sexual manipulations and the Katherine survival tools.

      Doesn’t this mean she’s not Katherine 2.0? What’s left of Katherine when you take all those away?

  8. And hopefully the last one, lol: http://www.hollywood.com/news/tv/55002107/vampire-diaries-stand-by-me-jeremy-death-julie-plec

    Would Elena have turned off her humanity on her own?
    I think that Elena would have wanted to turn her humanity off on her own so desperately and maybe fought against that with whatever last resolve she had to spare others from having to watch her go through it, but I know deeply that she would have wanted to.

    So if this is the case, why couldn´t we have that? Why did they need Damon to do it … we could have lived through one or a half episode with Elena being in that state and then deciding to turn off her humanity. Why was Damon involved?

    Also look at this question: The rest of the gang mourning Jeremy’s death was really affecting too. and no mention of Bonnie in that answer BUT we have ‘Okay, you’re here and people are taking care of you, so I’m going to fix all the other world’s problems on your behalf,’ which is sort of what Damon was trying to do
    This woman needs to stop.

  9. This reminds me of how you were saying before S4 that you thought that the writers were going to throw everything at newbie!Vamp Elena because they are easily bored. I think you said that when we were wondering whether they would have Elena turn her emotions off. And congrats, you were right.

    They really threw everything at her: They had her feed straight from the vein for a couple of eps. They invented new mythology for the blood-sharing shenanigans. They had her kill Connor. They forced her into this sire bond thing with Damon. And now this.

    Like, everything we could imagine they might do to her actually happened. What we didn’t imagine was that she would be so passive in all of this. Everything just happened to her. I feel like I’ve never seen a show where the protagonist has so little agency.

    • I remember that. *Shakes head in disgust.*

      Like, everything we could imagine they might do to her actually happened. What we didn’t imagine was that she would be so passive in all of this. Everything just happened to her. I feel like I’ve never seen a show where the protagonist has so little agency.

      Yep, you’re right.

      Elena’s been through more as a vamp in one or two months than Katherine has in the entire 500 years she’s been alive, all because the writers get bored so easily.

      Don’t forget that she’s also: been affected by the Hunter’s curse, lost her last remaining family, found a cure, and been poisoned by werewolf venom. What has Katherine been doing with her life? Elena’s been livin’ large. Smh.

  10. So since she set her house on fire, is Elena going to live with the Salvatores from now on? Poor Elena! I feel like there’s something wrong with the fact that the writers would rather destroy the Gilbert house, the home of their central protagonist, than the Salvatore boarding-house. I can’t really explain it. It’s just … that I find it’s very indicative of their priorities, you know. Having said that, I like that it was Elena who burnt it down and it was a character moment for her.

    • I know exactly what you mean. Anything to cut off her ties and bring her closer to them. Again, she can lose everything by the motion of their pen. The Salvatores only stand to gain.

  11. I was really pissed off by last episode. This time she at least reacted as she was supposed to not like every time before when seemed OK with everyone dying around her. It has no point killing her family off, burning the house down, this show is going down, damn it. They destroy and kill everything that was good.

  12. Also something that I just read in the transcript, Elena said that there is no room in the family plot because Jenna and John took the last spots, that´s not true. Not that I know much of this but Jenna and John had a separate grave, I remember 2×21 where Elena went to a different grave to lie down a rose on the grave of her parents. And a family plot for me is one big grave where all of the family comes in.

    • Jenna and John weren’t that far away from Miranda and Grayson, so maybe that was the allotted space that the Gilberts had. I mean they were rich, sure, but there also wasn’t that many of them. And really, there are four people there. Miranda and Grayson probably bought enough space for them and the kids.

  13. I’ve been thinking about Bonnie bringing Jeremy back to life (of course).

    The only thing I think should be an issue is what type of magic she’d need to use to bring him back. I feel like there should be a statute of limitation on that. Bonnie killed a flower and then brought it back to life, so decomposition shouldn’t be a hindrance. Like Olu said on the podcast for this episode, “It’s a supernatural show.”

    So if he’s freshly dead or has been dead less than 4 months, then regular magic can bring him back, and he’ll come back the same, but changed because, you know, he was dead for 4 months.

    If he’s been dead for more than 4 months but less than a year, then Dark magic is needed to bring him back. We’re past him coming back being a natural thing or steeped in nature. The thing about using dark magic, though, is that there could be a nasty side-effect (like how Esther creating vampires caused an infestation and a plague). So he could come back, but, I don’t know, he wouldn’t be completely healthy, or he’d have a heart murmur, or he’d get super sick every three months, just something bad. A reminder that the time for him to have come back had passed, but he was here anyways.

    If it gets up to a year or more (like with Shane’s son and wife, and Sheila at this point), then Expression is needed. And when you bring someone back with Expression, they just come back wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It’s almost Necromancy. They’re wrong; they don’t belong; their minds shouldn’t still be working; the world of the living isn’t their world anymore; they’re just not the person you knew anymore, and it’s so bad that you realize that bringing them back with Expression and keeping them around is almost like torture for them, almost like you’re forcing them into a place where they no longer fit.

    That’s how I see this resurrection thing now that they’ve introduced these types of magics.

  14. I just rewatched episode 13 and Caitlin (who was Silas in that scene) said “We have a witch … Silas” so here he talks about him being still a witch but in the end he is only a vampire. Did the writers forget it or did he just wanted to reassure that Shane would wake him up? Shane probably wouldn´t have done it if he said he is a vampire but knows how he could bring back his son and wife and Shane had to wake him up so that he can tell another witch how to do it.

    • I’d rather say the writers forgot. I hate how these writers choose to set things up.

      But I’d also say that Silas knows there’s no way anyone would believe that a vampire can bring people back from the dead.

    • Thanks, Kathrin.

      and with Katherine it took her out for two years.


      She says Tyler can’t come back until they’ve resolved the Klaus problem. But Klaus is leaving soon. So shouldn’t Tyler be back in episode 21 or 22? She’s just unwilling to give that character a proper story.

      “Some people haven’t loved the direction Bonnie’s character has gone this season.”

      Who the hell are these “people?”

      The second half the season will be more grounded in high school. What can we expect?

      Plec: We just started shooting the prom episode, which is episode 19 and graduation is going to be the finale. We’ll get to end the season with all of those great questions of who’s going to be where, who’s going to be with who, who’s going to do what.

      I have things to say about this, but I don’t feel like getting the words out. I don’t. Honestly, why do any of them care about graduating at this point? Why do any of them care about living? Like I hear about their “future” and I go, “So?”

      So when will we know who Elena is taking to prom?

      Plec: You may have to wait until someone puts up the wrong photos or I accidentally slip and say something in the press.

      How exciting.

      • Klaus hasn´t even mentioned Katherine for two years. I don´t get why she is still talking about her trying to get away from him.

        This stuff with Tyler is ridiculous, why is Klaus going after him but now totally forgot about the fact that he wanted to hunt down Elena and co.?
        Also in one of those JoMo interviews we got weeks ago he mentioned crossovers so if Klaus leaves for the spinoff but then comes back for episodes, how is it possible for Tyler to return if at any time Klaus could come into town? Or they need to make some kind of decision that Klaus stops looking for him.

        I don´t get her answer for Bonnie … also if Bonnie is so devastated, mentally instable and everything, where are her friends to look after her? Where is Caroline, why is she hanging out with Klaus/Stefan instead? But makes such a big deal out of no!humanity!Elena (I know it will probably only be for one episode but nevertheless).

        Didn´t she talk about the stuff with the future plans and so on at the beginning of the season? Now with Silas being awake and Bonnie trying to bring back all people from the other side, now they are thinking about their future? This is so ridiculous.

        I can already see all the Originals being at the Prom and stuff … maybe even Katherine who knows. And I can´t even see Bonnie going to prom. Why should she? To collect those twelve sacrificial lambs? That could be the reason if Silas is stil la topic then. Elena will probably go with Matt, Caroline will go alone and then Klaus will show up and they will dance.

        Did you read the synopsis(es) for episode 16 and 17? Are you going to discuss it in the next podcast? There is also some spoilers for that Klaus sex scene …. we are all waiting for, you know lol. Don´t know if I should link them here.

        • He hasn’t. For all intents and purposes, Klaus would leave Katherine alone as long as she didn’t move into the same town as him.

          I don´t get her answer for Bonnie … also if Bonnie is so devastated, mentally instable and everything, where are her friends to look after her? Where is Caroline, why is she hanging out with Klaus/Stefan instead? But makes such a big deal out of no!humanity!Elena (I know it will probably only be for one episode but nevertheless).

          All of this!

          Elena will probably go with Stefan, I say. And you know what? I’m thinking Bamon might dance. Did you see Brian Young’s tweet? I’m just saying: I wouldn’t be surprised. Hopefully I’ll have realized that I no longer want to watch this show by then.

          You can link the spoilers about the Klaus sex scene. We didn’t talk about the ep 16 synopsis, because I think it came out after the Sunday of that week (which is when we record). I need to put up the post for the ep 16 discussion. And since ep 17 will just be a week after 16, I’ll post the synopsis in that discussion post.

  15. And I also wanted to ask something since episode 14. They said that Qetsiyahs and therefore probably also Silahs native tongue is aramaic but I didn´t know that 2000 years ago aramaic was already in north america … I thought at that time it was only spoken in Iraq/Iran/Syria/Israel etc. Please correct me if I´m wrong.

    • It wasn’t in North America. I’m choosing to believe that Qetsiyah and Silas never lived on that continent. They only ended up there when Qetsiyah was looking for a place to bury Silas.

      My friend said they could’ve lived in Ethiopia, so that’s my head!canon.

  16. If you tilt your head and think about it, Bonnie bringing down the veil to bring Sheila back is kind of…..taking the character backwards.

    I know she mainly wants to do it for Jeremy. I know. But why mention Sheila? I feel like her stopping to listen to Shane after he mentioned Sheila was kind of pushing it (I did love it at the time), but her actually doing something that might bring her back to life?

    Come on.

    We know how Sheila’s death has affected Bonnie. But it didn’t cripple her. The desperation she displayed to get Sheila back after she discovered her body is simply not part of her life anymore.

    I feel like even flirting with the idea of Bonnie brining Sheila back is pushing it. Her death, as they’ve displayed through their own writing, simply doesn’t affect Bonnie on the level of “I need her back!” that was present in late season 1 and very early season 2 anymore.

    I do think they played Bonnie’s grieving process wrt Sheila correctly. I think they did a good job of showing how Bonnie tried to pick herself up and keep going in this environment that was not going to be kind to her if it caught her crying her eyes out.

    And that’s why I feel like she’s kind of past seriously wanting to do something, anything, to bring Sheila back.

    It’s almost the same with Matt and Vicky, but not quite because Matt never had a choice in the matter, and he never had the power to bring her back. If Vicky did come back, I imagine (see: hope) Matt would snatch her up and they’d get the hell out of Mystic Falls.

    If Bonnie brings Sheila back, this woman who’s been dead for a year now, what is she going to do with that? Stay in Mystic Falls where Sheila can….die again?

    Like I said, I know she’s mainly doing it for Jeremy, and I get/like that because this second lost is just not one she can accept.

    But her seriously talking about bringing Sheila back as if she hasn’t moved on to the point where Sheila’s death just stings now instead of rips her heart out….feels like a step back. Like, the writers playing that angle feels like they’re sliding Bonnie back.

    The fact that she’s interacted with/seen Sheila twice since they reunited in Ghost World without the desire to bring her back to life, doesn’t help.

    It’s not that I think they skipped a step wrt Bonnie now wanting to bring Sheila back. I think all the steps they made were good.

    It’s that I don’t think Bonnie should be able to be enticed or reeled in by the suggestion of Sheila being alive again. Not at this point.

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