Episode 80: TVD’s Before Sunset

Episode 80

***My apologies for the hissing and slight echo that happens towards the end.

Co-hosts: Cana, Olu, and Mags

In this episode, we tackle the near perfection that was Klaus, the Blame Elena Game bugs the crap out of me, there is recurring fangirling over Bonnie/Jeremy, Olu breaks down the esteemed Salvatore brotherhood, Bonnie’s scenes are a mixed bag (and there is bitterness over Bonnie/Abby), Mags appreciates Damon’s terrible, we question the show’s mythology for the vampires and the witches, and we speculate on Dark Magic.

“I know it’s wrong. I know it’s mean. But Julie Plec’s desire to be Elena, to be whoever is coming in between the Salvatores, or maybe in fact to be one of the Salvatores, is so repulsive to me because of what she has other characters say to Elena, to our supposed heroine, and it’s like please stop using the other characters as a mouthpiece.”-Olu

“She spent this entire episode contemplating the Salvatores and hearing about the Salvatores, and then we have the Salvatores who are actually contemplating their future past Elena. Has Elena ever talked about her future past the Salvatores? ….I don’t think that’s happened.”-Me

About Alaric’s rant to Elena: “Everything he was saying is, I suppose, quote unquote, the right thing [….], but this entire show has been about challenging that kind of morality, and for me it just reinforced the fact that this show will never be Buffy. If Buffy was on this show, she would agree with Alaric, but this is not what this show is about. This is not the bar we are in. This is a bar of people who will choose their own feelings, their own whatever, over the greater good, over the moral good, over whatever good. […..] It reinforced everything I know to be true about this show and how terrible everybody is, but oh well.”-Mags

“Remember in early season 2 when Caroline was in that car accident? Where was Meredith with the vampire blood then?”-Cana

16 thoughts on “Episode 80: TVD’s Before Sunset

  1. I really liked you guys “council” ideas. I actually think that it would have been a better premise for the show if that’s how it was presented.

    Like: These kids (Elena, Caroline, Tyler, and other founding kids) were told that there were supernatural beings out there and as they are being trained to take over the responsibilities of this town, they begin to have these things happen to them. Such as, Elena falling in love with a vampire (triangle ensues), Tyler finding out that he’s a werewolf (and everything that came with that, Caroline being privy to basically everything that comes into town before anybody else knows about it. Then, from there we could’ve added Bonnie, the new witch, into the equation. Jeremy, the little brother that stumbled across the secret. Matt, the guy that always gets caught in the crossfire. And this new aged council, that had it’s problems, it’s secrets, and it’s naivety would go through all of the issues and obstacles that they have, but be aware of the world around them, and definitely aware of the fact that there are more people in Mystic Falls than themselves. And if you want Elena could still be in the forefront of it all. But initially everyone would have their complexities and their stories. And the fact that they have made so many mistakes or that they celebrate the tiny dumb luck victories, wouldn’t seem so stupid and ooc.

    Maybe that ‘s not what you all meant, but that’s how I kind of would’ve preferred it.

    On to the episode (and basically every other episode), if I tell myself that the episode before doesn’t exist, then, for me, ALMOST every episode would be a good one, almost. But I can’t forget, and therefore most of these episodes leave me with more questions, then answers. No one character, besides Damon and sometimes Caroline, appears as the same person for more then 2-3 episodes in a row. I don’t know how to explain it.

    Elena relies so heavily on the other characters (consciously and unconsciously) for her survival, but at the most non extreme moments, she is willing to kill herself. And while most of the time she seems almost dense to the big picture, she miraculously piece together Klaus’s family issues and Alaric’s spell mechanics. huh?

    I don’t get it and therefore I can’t thoroughly enjoy it.

    And I have to say that I am a Beremy shipper, and this may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think that their break up should’ve happened. I don’t. Jeremy kissing Anna amounted to nothing. It wasn’t like she was going to come back and they were going to be together and I don’t even think that Jeremy loved her. They knew each other for about 3wks. I do think that they should’ve taken a break, maybe talked it through. Had some ups and downs. But just parting ways completely, no. I mean, this is a show, where the protagonist was begging her serial killer boyfriend to come home after kissing his brother. The lines of proper dating etiquette shouldn’t have been that simple with Bonnie and Jeremy. I want them back together, I want my sex scene with Jeremy tearingdatassup, and I want them to have a real relationship where each other comes first, then (if you’d preferred) Elena.

    Anyway, I liked Klaus this episode, I was kind of upset at his passing. I think that they put too much into trying to kill him, for his death to have been an spontaneous decision. I feel like they should’ve taken care of Alaric and then in the season finale finally did something about Klaus and the rest of them.

    Overall I give this episode a B- for effort.

    • That’s one of the premises, but we were thinking more that the new generation of the council would form within the world of TVD as it exists. I have no idea what we would do with the Salvatores, but maybe somewhere in the middle of season 2 (let’s say starting after Masquerade), these kids would work together so much and realize that they keep coming together to protect the town. So they’d form a renegade Council with Bonnie and Matt at the head, to represent the factions Olu mentioned. Back in season 2, I imagined Jeremy and Matt heading the new generation of the Council (with Caroline, Tyler, etc being members), with Bonnie being an ally (that way if they got caught or something, the witch/witchcraft wouldn’t be implicated. It’d be a way to avoid what happened to Emily in 1864).

      if I tell myself that the episode before doesn’t exist, then, for me, ALMOST every episode would be a good one, almost.

      Lol. *Sigh.* And you’re right. We’re lucky if a character that is not Damon manages to spend 2 episodes with the same motivations, feelings, etc. I’d say even Caroline isn’t exempt to this because I remember the Bill fiasco.

      And while most of the time she seems almost dense to the big picture, she miraculously piece together Klaus’s family issues and Alaric’s spell mechanics.

      Yeah, she couldn’t figure out that spilling her guts to Elijah is a bad idea, but she can figure out how Esther’s spell works. Okay.

      I’m glad she broke up with him because Jeremy was acting like he really could have a life with Anna. I don’t know wtf was up with that. What I don’t like is that they haven’t had one conversation about it. Ever. That’s ridiculous.

      I think the writers were too careless about maintaing a reason to kill Klaus.

      • Did Matt know about all of this during masquerade? Is Matt a founding family? I’m asking this honestly, because I’m not sure about what Matt is. Who was Matt’s father. Did his mother know about this stuff. I think that if Matt’s family would’ve left him a diary to read then he would’ve been the most likely to be head of the new generation council. And asking the question about Matt’s mom, made me realize that they did a better job, with his mess of a mother, then they did with Abby who was essentially supposed to have more depth. LOL, I have a special Matt futuristic head cannon, that would definitely go with the new aged council thing, but I can’t bring myself to write the fic.

        Jeremy was being an ass hole and in an non TVD universe, most definitely, I would’ve wanted them to break up and then go through the motions in order to get back together. But for me, every other couple, including Delena, has been through a lot (addiction, death, stupidity, etc) and the fact that Beremy is being held to a moral microscope in the relationship department sucks. Especially because these kids are still in high school and when you’re that young, love feels so intense, and there is no way that a 17yr girl is going to just drop her “boo” because he kissed another girl and wanted to quite possibly leave. Every high school girl I knew back in the day, would’ve tried to at least fight for theirs and then when the threat was over she would’ve taken her boyfriend through hell to make it right. Because you’re 17 and you’re dumb and you’re in love. And i can’t hold Bonnie above that kind of behavior because her decision making process is kind of flawed lately.

        • Matt was clueless in Masquerade. He’s not part of a founding family. His family is in a lower social class than everyone else, which is why Tyler’s mom was throwing shade at Vicky.

          As far as we know, his mom doesn’t know about this stuff. And I don’t think Matt ever knew his father, though I don’t remember that detail too clearly. And yep, they did a better job with Matt’s mom than they did with Abby. They even did a better job with the Bill/Caroline relationship. At least they put them in a better place before we stopped seeing Bill. Bonnie and Abby are still where they were in episode 12. Probably worse since Abby left a second time.

          But Bonnie is Bonnie. She always pulls back. Always. Even now with this Abby thing, as annoying as it is. She might come back; she might thaw out like she did with Elena and Caroline, but her instinct is always to pull away at the sign of rejection. Jeremy didn’t just cheat, he said he’s always loved Anna and that it was always her. Of course Bonnie didn’t know he said that while she was breaking up with him, but I’m glad that she broke up with him after he made such a complete rejection of her and everything they were. And we know Bonnie knew what Jeremy said as of Homecoming because she referenced it in Elena’s bedroom.

      • lol that’s good time management. Also you’re Drunk!Jeremy is my life! Also so does Mags Teeth sucking. LOVE.

        If Caroline would have taken a break for Alaric’s death and stayed home or not even gone to the clean up crew, then Alaric would have been trapped in the school for the whole Saturday. >_>

  2. About the spell Bonnie did on Jeremy I think it actually makes sense for her not to lose her powers or stuff like that.When Abby did the spell 15/16 years ago the connection between Esther and the Bennett witches was still there. Esther was using a lot of their power so that made them more…fragile?I think that’s the word. The same goes for the unlinking spell.
    As for the Alaric being stronger than Damon or Klaus thing I think it also makes sense in some twisted way. I mean I think that the ‘more older you are the more stronger you are’ things would be translated like ‘the purer your blood is the more stronger you are’. Let’s take Katherine as an example: she was turned by Rose who’s blood wasn’t pure because she was turned by Mary and her by an Original.Then Katerina turned Stefan/Damon meaning that their blood is less pure than hers. If you think about it a long time it makes sense for her to be stronger than them. Now only if they would explain/make Tyler stronger than the Salvatores. In order to mentain the logic that I said (which I suppose is the writers logic too) they have to make a fight between Tyler and Stefan and let Tyler win.Than Klaus/Elijah explains why and stuff like that. But this thing doesn’t explain why Alaric is stronger than Klaus a badass hybrid.And how Stefan killed hybrids that have blood more pure than his. You know what for some time I thought I found a logic/explaniton to this thing, but I don’t get writers’ logic at all.
    Also if Alaric is linked to the doppleganger and if Elena dies he dies why didn’t killing Tatia killed Klaus and Elijah?And Klaus drank Tatia’s blood in order to turn, why didn’t Alaric turned as he drank Elena’s? Please can someone explain, I really didn’t undertand that part.

    I want to add something about tvd/the vampire DIARIES. Where is Elena’s diary? I mean we saw Stefan’s in 3×16 so where’s Elena’s? I remember that someone asked KW or JP on a interview in season 2: why don’t Elena and Stefan write in their diaries anymore? And they answered: they were lonely and as they found their way to each other they could share their thoughts to each other like they would do with their diaries. They became each other’s journal/diary (or something like that). Okay I understand and respect that. But really in season 3 where Stefan was gone and as much as DE shippers love Delena they don’t have the best way to comunicate with each other, why didn’t we see Elena’s diary at ALL?She lost Stefan and that means she lost the ‘Stefan=diary’ thing too, meaning Elena should go back at writting in her own freaking diary. I admit that didn’t piss me off THAT much until I remembered some JP interview. She said ‘we don’t show them spend time in school because that would be kind of boring and there are a lot of things to take care of outside(or something like that)’, So that + no diary = spending time writting in a diary is pretty boring when there are a lot of other things *cought*triangle*cought* to take care of.
    If you remember from my last post I said that the plot has no continuity, now what am I suppose to think, that their interviews don’t have either? *sighs*
    I don’t know about you but I really feel offended. They turn one of my FAVORITES things about books/book Elena and pretty much said is freaking boring.
    Btw, did you read the tvd books?:)

    • About the spell Bonnie did on Jeremy I think it actually makes sense for her not to lose her powers or stuff like that.When Abby did the spell 15/16 years ago the connection between Esther and the Bennett witches was still there. Esther was using a lot of their power so that made them more…fragile?I think that’s the word. The same goes for the unlinking spell.

      I’d even buy that explanation, but they gave us nothing.

      You know what for some time I thought I found a logic/explaniton to this thing, but I don’t get writers’ logic at all.


      Klaus drank Tatia’s blood, but he still needed to be killed by Mikael. Same with Alaric. He drank Elena’s blood, but Esther still needed to kill him for the spell to work. As for why killing Elena will kill Alaric while killing Tatia didn’t kill the Originals…well that’s a question for the writers. Because I think Elijah said Esther killed Tatia in order to make them vampires, but that’s a continuity error because Katherine said in season 2 that Petrova blood was spilled to curse Klaus’ werewolf side, and we know Esther cursed Klaus after he made his first kill and his werewolf side came out.

      It’s also ridiculous because Stefan’s diary made a comeback twice this season. Once, when Elena was reading about his time in Chicago and the second time when we saw Stefan writing in it.

      I’ve never read the books.

    • Thanks for bringing this over! I see they’ll be interviewing JP on Friday. I might be busy packing that day, so do you (or anyone else) think you can send in a question saying something along the lines of how “There didn’t seem to be any growth in the Abby/Bonnie relationship during the season. Is there a chance we will see that in season 4?” I hope I’ll be able to ask it myself.

      I’m listening to Steven’s interview right now. It doesn’t escape me how quickly he agreed that Beremy was a sweet couple. Lol. Oh Steven.

      • Thanks for bringing this over!

        so do you (or anyone else) think you can send in a question

        I could do it … but how do we contact them, simply tweeting them the question?
        I just couldn´t understand what she was saying only that we should wait until after the finale aired to ask the questions, but this isn´t finale-specific and with them getting in all the tweets about the finale tomorrow I would say we should tweet it before the finale airs because I don´t think they would see it with all the shipper questions tomorrow.

        I´m listening to Susan Walters interview at the moment and I saw that even Robert Richards had an interview with them. I don´t want to listen to it lmao.

        There is also one with Persia http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vampradio/2012/05/03/persia-white-interview

        • Yeah, you can tweet them. They’ll also take questions on their facebook, but they’ve disabled commenting on the post until after the finale. So I’ll be waiting there for them to make the post asking for questions. I think I’m also going to ask one about Bonnie/Jeremy. Here’s the link: VRO

          I saw the Robert one and skipped right over it. No thank you. I can’t even listen to the Persia one, because her character didn’t get a story.

      • If I remember, I’ll do it. After the finale, I may be in a haze. lol It would probably be a good idea to have several of us ask that question so that the interviewers/JP understand that the Abby/Bonnie development is a serious concern.

        I love that this is the second recent interview where Steven is pro-Beremy. He could just as easily say that ship has sailed, but he doesn’t. *sigh* lol His persistent Damon diss is funny, too.

        • I love that he still loves the ship and hates how it ended.

          His Stefan shade was even more glorious than his Damon shade in this interview. I’m glad he picked neither and went with Klaus.

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