Episode 72: TVD’s 1912

Episode 72

In this episode, Alaric didn’t have enough scenes (not even kidding. This episode needed suspense since it was the reveal, and there was none), Damon’s origin story as a vamp was told better in the season 1 flashbacks (what did Sage do that Katherine didn’t do better?), and Meredith’s actions and reasoning didn’t make any sense which resulted in half of the episode being sloppy.

Spoiler Chat: 03:29.437-18:51.406

Bonnie spoiler(ish?)

Nancy Forner’s Tweets

Ian’s original tweet

Episode 21 title + the next hiatus

Nina’s Interview

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30 thoughts on “Episode 72: TVD’s 1912

  1. Sage was Kathrine 2.0. I didn’t see a difference between the two really. It was yet again a waste of screen time. I found Meredith really annoying this episode, not only because of her actions, but because of all of that talking that she was doing in the kitchen. That’s what probably made Alaric snap even more. I’m sorry, but I was laughing when he was trying to kill her.
    Is there seriously going to be another witch that is going to trump Bonnie in every way possible. So we can continuously listen to Damon complain about how incompetent Bonnie is until she does a spell correctly or one that saves his life personally or when she does his bidding just so he can information out of people. I’m still salty about that. No payoff. I’ve enjoyed their scenes together. I know they’re not going to be together, but can we at least get some scenes with them together because they were entertaining.
    What happened when Bonnie threatened Stefan that if Damon killed another innocent person, she would take care of him? He killed her mother and she hasn’t done a thing. All JP said is that she’s going to hold a grudge against the Salvatore’s for a while.
    I can’t believe how petty JP was being posting the ratings for this episode as if she won something. Has she she even thought that it was a result of Cassidy Freeman fans or does she even care?

    • There doesn’t seem to be anything deep when it comes to Sage, other than Vampire Who Likes to Have a Good Time. But that seems to be the case with the latest string of guest characters. Including my dear Abby. She had an interesting backstory/beginning, but then the writers thought that was enough. So she ended up kind of falling flat.

      I found Meredith really annoying this episode, not only because of her actions, but because of all of that talking that she was doing in the kitchen. That’s what probably made Alaric snap even more.

      Lmao.

      So we can continuously listen to Damon complain about how incompetent Bonnie is until she does a spell correctly or one that saves his life personally or when she does his bidding just so he can information out of people.

      And then he’ll go back to not taking (her) magic seriously.

      What happened when Bonnie threatened Stefan that if Damon killed another innocent person, she would take care of him?

      The same thing that happened to her telling Elijah that if he saved Klaus, she’d kill them both *______*.

      Yeah, that was petty. Like the ratings and the writing on her show are anything to boast about.Just look at how convoluted she and Finch made Meredith’s actions this episode.

  2. SPOILERS

    I hope that Jenna only appears in the flashbacks. I’m really afraid that her appearance will be made about Alaric in some way in order to give him closure (despite the fact that he has already moved on, but who are these writers). Like, he almost dies and has a vision of Jenna telling him to move on or some crap like that.

    I have no idea who might die. Klaus, I guess, I *hope*. We have both Katherine and Rebekah in the finale. Would they let them both survive? Idk, I guess they’d rather kill Rebekah than Katherine. If a regular character aside from Klaus will die, I think it would be either Jeremy or Tyler, probably Jeremy to give Elena more angst. I’m pretty sure Elijah and Alaric will survive. That’s all I have.

    EPISODE

    I guess this (and the stuff in ep 17) was all of Alaric’s backstory? You know, when JP said that we would get Alaric’s backstory? So that’s it? Not that I would want to learn more about him … but when JP (or the actors) spoil this kind of stuff it always sounds like it would be more. And then it ends up being 1 or 2 scenes at most.

    Yeah, the guest characters this season have been very weak. I talked with Kathrin about this and I think we agreed that the only new character that really worked for us was Gloria. (And I personally really liked Rebekah in her first ep.) But other than that… I feel sorry for Persia, Claire and Cassidy. I like them as actresses but their material just sucks.

    Damon and Sage. I agree with you. This was not needed and I like the original version of how Damon learned everything from Katherine and remodeled himself in her image so much better. Like, I like it so much better that I reject this as canon.

    Sage – I hated her speech. Yes, women can be misogynistic. But I feel like the writers can’t let a speech like that stand on its own. Like you wrote in the comments for the episode, there is no counter-voice. I especially hated this line about how reserved women want it even more. I can’t really explain why it bugged me so much. Maybe because I feel like that the show will prove this statement right in the end? Like, this is similar to how in ep 17 the writers had Sage say this gross thing about Rebekah being a girl and thus weak or something like that. I don’t remember the exact line. And then they basically proved Sage right by having her plan work out! Just ugh.

    I liked Damon’s line “I’m spoken for”, too. I think this may have been the only thing in the flashbacks that actually enriched Damon’s character for me. It was a new detail we learned about him that made complete sense for his character.
    Another moment I really liked in the flashbacks was when Damon told Stefan to pick a human and Stefan stared at the bleeding guy in the boxing ring. Idk, it just felt very in character. Of course, Stefan would directly go for the first bleeding human. I liked how it seemed that he wanted to feed on him right then and there in front of all the people, lol.

    Damon tormenting Stefan is not a thing anymore. The writers don’t care about that anymore. I’m pretty sure we will never see it. They were only interested in it in early S1 when they were into presenting Damon as a villain.

    Stefan will never learn moderation. This would require character growth and we don’t get that. Look at Elena! I thought she got some character growth up until ep 14. Then came ep 15 and ever since I’ve seen nothing of that character growth. I feel like she’s regressed.

    I didn’t really care about the Elena/Matt scene where they talked about Elena’s involvement with the Salvatores. Like you said, even JP couldn’t think of a reason for Elena’s involvement with Damon. That’s just sad. And when it comes to her reason for Stefan – I mean, it’s a good reason for her initially staying with Stefan. The thing is that the writers have her say this now in S3 and never hinted at it in S1 or even in S2. It seems as if they came up with this explanation just now and weren’t thinking about it in S1 or S2. I doubt that when I’ll rewatch S1, I’ll come across a scene that will make me go: “Ahh, here is what Elena was talking about in 3.16.” I’ll be able to read it into the S/E relationship, sure, but I don’t think it was intentionally there. Like, it’s a mild form of a retcon? Mild form because it actually makes sense for the character but was not originally there. I hope this makes sense. Anyway, that’s why I didn’t really care about that scene and wasn’t impressed by the writing.

    Ugh, Elena’s scene with Damon. I actually don’t have a problem with Damon in that scene. He is awful, yes, but I prefer him being awful and unrepentant to him paying lip-service to how he’s feeling ~sorry, while knowing that he would do it again in heartbeat, if that makes any sense.
    For me, the bigger problem is Elena in that scene. Like you, I’m off the Elena train. I couldn’t believe it when she told him to “show some compassion”. Doesn’t this sound as if someone else had killed Abby? As if Elijah had killed her and Abby and Damon was now making these insensitive comments? But *Damon* is Abby’s murderer. Why is she telling him to show compassion? Like, I’m sorry but what I got from this scene is that Elena wants Damon to ‘show compassion’ (aka pay lip-service) so that she can tell herself that it’s ok for her to still be ‘friends’ with him. So that she can tell herself that she’s still a good person if she keeps him in her life. That’s all I’ve got.

    And yes, it doesn’t show her in a favourable light that she knows that these brothers are throwing her ‘loved ones’ under a bus for her (and say it even to her face) but she doesn’t react to it. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that she is fine with it. Deep down, she is ok with that.
    I wonder how ND really feels about her character. And I wonder how the Elena stans feel about the Bonnie/Elena ‘friendship’.

    I guess my favourite scene was the first flashback scene of the Salvatores. My favourite line is probably the chipmunk line. And I think I agree with you on Damon being the best character in the ep, although I have to say that I don’t really understand his rehab methods but ok.

    • I bet it’ll be about Elena first, and Alaric second. What is a Jeremy? She’ll probably tell Ric he’s doing a great job with the kids, more than she could’ve hoped for. Lmao.

      If Jeremy gets killed, I might lose all emotional ties to Elena. No more rollercoasters. There’s just something gross about killing all of her family so that all she’s surrounded by are the Salvatores. Her friends (Caroline/Bonnie) are already nonfactors.

      Yeah, it does sound like more. I totally forgot we were supposed to get his backstory as a vamp hunter (wasn’t that what they said?). And all we got were barfights and restraining orders. Eh.

      Yeah, the guest characters this season have been very weak. I talked with Kathrin about this and I think we agreed that the only new character that really worked for us was Gloria. (And I personally really liked Rebekah in her first ep.) But other than that… I feel sorry for Persia, Claire and Cassidy. I like them as actresses but their material just sucks.

      All of this. Every word. The material for the three have sucked. And Gloria worked for me too, as did Rebekah in the 1920s flashbacks. I mean they have expended on Rebekah a bit. We know her moods and her general mindset. It’s just….not interesting to me. I want a villain! Someone who hates the protagonists and wants to bring them down! And I’m not getting that from either her or Klaus.

      Damon and Sage. I agree with you. This was not needed and I like the original version of how Damon learned everything from Katherine and remodeled himself in her image so much better. Like, I like it so much better that I reject this as canon.

      Me too. I think there’s something powerful (not in a mushy shipper way) in the fact that even though Katherine didn’t spend a lot of time teaching Damon, he used her rare lessons as well as the way she conducted herself to shape the kind of vamp he wanted to be.

      I especially hated this line about how reserved women want it even more. I can’t really explain why it bugged me so much.

      Is it because it’s a very male-centered point of view? Women don’t know what they want or how they want to be. If she’s rejecting you, she doesn’t really mean it. It’s that “she secretly wants it,” mentality.

      I don’t remember the exact line.

      She said something about how she’s a girl, so she won’t be tough to take down. Something about using her girliness against her. And of course that meant a guy wanting her and choosing her. Ugh. This, after in this episode (1912) we had Damon or Stefan saying something about how it’s impossible for a woman to kill a man, and Rebekah put on her feminist hat and said the comment was sexist. Whatever.

      It was a new detail we learned about him that made complete sense for his character.

      I agree.

      Lol @ Stefan.

      Damon tormenting Stefan is not a thing anymore. The writers don’t care about that anymore. I’m pretty sure we will never see it. They were only interested in it in early S1 when they were into presenting Damon as a villain.

      Ugh.

      I’ll be able to read it into the S/E relationship, sure, but I don’t think it was intentionally there. Like, it’s a mild form of a retcon? Mild form because it actually makes sense for the character but was not originally there. I hope this makes sense.

      I agree. They definitely weren’t thinking about it in season 1. But I have thought of two scenes where I can say she was attracted to him because he couldn’t die: number 1 was when she talked about not wanting her memory wiped because she didn’t want to lose her memory of him. Number 2 is when she was literally telling him not to walk away after Damon almost killed Bonnie.

      I actually don’t have a problem with Damon in that scene. He is awful, yes, but I prefer him being awful and unrepentant to him paying lip-service to how he’s feeling ~sorry, while knowing that he would do it again in heartbeat, if that makes any sense.

      I prefer it too. It just bugs me because that’s the only rhetoric I’m getting about the situation, you know?

      I couldn’t believe it when she told him to “show some compassion”. Doesn’t this sound as if someone else had killed Abby?

      Yes! That’s exactly it! Her words would make sense if Damon was a third party, but he’s not. Maybe she thinks killing Abby was a hard thing for Damon to do? I don’t get it.

      Deep down, she is ok with that.

      I think so too. And Bonnie doesn’t need a friend like that. I was talking about it with Magali, who comments here from time to time, and we spoke about how maybe Elena enjoys the attention she gets, from both the Salvatores and from the fact that Matt still carries a torch for her. We compared it to Lana Lang from Smallville, someone who used to take pleasure and use the fact that people treated her like a special snowflake to her advantage. We also said she had some traits in common with Chloe Sullivan. Some of my part of the convo:

      On her being like Chloe:

      And maybe even her desire to control which shows up wrt Jeremy and going on about the people she loves. One way the kitchen scene in 3.16 worked for me wrt continuing to understand Elena’s character is that while she talked about what caught her eye wrt Stefan and Damon, there’s also the part where SHE caught their eye too and they’d do anything for her, and she’s interacting with them, there’s no change in their dynamic, despire them killing Abby. Of course on the surface she doesn’t like that they’d do that for her, but just like last time (when Damon said he’d always choose her over Bonnie) there isn’t any verbal disagreements of “I don’t want this.” One part of that, speaking outside the show, might be the writers knowing it’s futile because they’ll undermine her every time. But to me, it’s an aspect I like/find interesting since I still don’t think she can have both the Sals and a close relationship with her friends and I think I’m past hoping for the latter.

      Since the triangle is where she gets pretty much all her development, I’d wish they’d go all in, but it might end up being a bigger than disappointment than Chloe since we’ve had this season many cues to speak to Elena’s virtue (again with her saying nothing).

      On her being like Lana:

      Actually I’m now thinking of when you wrote that you love that everyone’s kind of in love with Elena. I’m wondering if Elena does too. She can’t NOT notice this even if the producers never let her voice it because she’s too nice for that. Because why would she ask Matt if it was weird for him to hear her talk about the Sals? And the thing is she didn’t ask because of what they did to Vicky, she asked because of his feelings for her. Why would her mind even go there when she knows he was last with Caroline and loved her? Unless she never thought he got over her. Which is interesting and delicious in the exact same way Chloe’s relationships with Clark and Lana and THAT whole triangle was.

      Re: Chloe and Elena being in the middle of supers. Yeah, I always got that Chloe’s strength though she didn’t have powers lied in her hubris and manipulation. The way she seemed to ALWAYS have people in check in terms of whether or not they bettered or worsened her life/luck. I mean I sometimes found it funny how quickly girlfriend would put on the hurt face, lmao. Remember her during the Clois dunk tank scene? SO MUCH FOR MY HAPPY ENDING! Like gurl, Clark is just smiling. Wide. But it’s a smile. And Lois just got here? Or when she was already putting herself down because Lana managed to triangulate whereas she didn’t think to. “Make way for the new and improved version.” Clark: You’re still my numer 1. (or was it) “She’s got nothing on you.” He said something to reassure her, and she smiled. “Bashfully.” *Cackling.*

      It’s pretty much what I said on the podcast, but yeah.

      I wonder if the Elena stans even think about the Bonnie/Elena friendship. I can’t imagine Nina’s happy with her character. She’s “joked” about freeing Elena from the Salvatores. I’ll bet she loves the moment where Elena’s being manipulative and putting plans into actions, i.e. parts of 3.14. Then when she read the script for 3.15, she probably died inside. Lol.

      although I have to say that I don’t really understand his rehab methods but ok.

      Lol. Like someone asked, shouldn’t Stefan be kept away from blood or given small doses like he was doing with Elena in season 2. I love how taking those sips did nothing for him. What was the point of that again? Anyways, I’m remembering when I wondered if she enjoyed the power she held over Stefan what with him depending on her to get better. Chalk that up to both a Lana and a Chloe trait, imo (I know there are at least two Chloe fans who comment!).

      • Ohh, I just realized that I hadn’t replied to your post.

        Is it because it’s a very male-centered point of view? Women don’t know what they want or how they want to be. If she’s rejecting you, she doesn’t really mean it. It’s that “she secretly wants it,” mentality.

        Yes! It’s this “no doesn’t really mean no”/”she doesn’t really mean to reject you” way of thinking. And TVD is already problematic with regard to this kind of mentality (late-Season 1 and S2 D/E comes to mind).

        Number 2 is when she was literally telling him not to walk away after Damon almost killed Bonnie.

        Ohhh, I like that scene as an example of how Elena was attracted to him because he couldn’t die. It really works for me.

        I prefer it too. It just bugs me because that’s the only rhetoric I’m getting about the situation, you know?

        Yes, I def agree.

        I was talking about it with Magali, who comments here from time to time, and we spoke about how maybe Elena enjoys the attention she gets, from both the Salvatores and from the fact that Matt still carries a torch for her.

        This reminds me of the opening sequence of “All My Children” where Elena marches over to the boardinghouse after the Salvatores both ignore her calls. I wonder how Elena would react if the Salvatores cut her out of their lives. Would she be able to let go? I feel like at first she would act like in that opening sequence and walk over to their home and basically demand their attention.

        I wonder if the Elena stans even think about the Bonnie/Elena friendship.

        Yeah, I don’t get the feeling they do.

        Like someone asked, shouldn’t Stefan be kept away from blood or given small doses like he was doing with Elena in season 2. I love how taking those sips did nothing for him. What was the point of that again?

        I had a terrifying thought while watching “Break On Through” when Elena brought this up in her conservation with Damon and Damon said something like “Yeah, that worked when you two were in love and everything was sunshine and rainbows.” I thought that maybe the writers intend to equate him being ‘in control’ with him being happy in love with Elena. Ugh, how do I put this. Like, they might be implying that it is somehow contingent on the state of his relationship with Elena? And then there was this scene in the ep where Stefan had his minor blood-bag binge because of his convo with Elena earlier in that ep or some crap like that. Anyway, I got really, really scared while watching those scenes and thinking about where the writers may intend to go with this.

        • And TVD is already problematic with regard to this kind of mentality (late-Season 1 and S2 D/E comes to mind)

          Exactly. The show isn’t doing anything different or out there when it does stuff like this. This type of stuff is there on a weekly basis.

          Yeah, I don’t think Elena would take well to the Salvatores ditching her. I sincerely think she’d be in denial. It’s kind of funny.

          I thought that maybe the writers intend to equate him being ‘in control’ with him being happy in love with Elena.

          Ew! I don’t think they’d be as obvious as that.

  3. First lol at JP tweeting about the ratings, I am confused is it anything to write home about? Also do people think that the whole fandom is on the internet? erm could it be the ratings was up due to the fact last week it had just came back from a long break and people most likely didnt tune in. Also still doesnt change the fact that that the ratings have been down this season especially when you comapare to season 1/2. Maybe someone should tweet that to JP:rollseyes:

    ”The same thing that happened to her telling Elijah that if he saved Klaus, she’d kill them both *______*.”

    I think this an issue with the show why are the bothers still alive? lol yes I know the show is mainly based around the trio but it still. I cannot find a reason why Klaus is letting them be, same goes with Rebecca it seems like the only thing the villans do is torture them:rollseyes: it honestly does not make any sense.

    The Episode
    I have to say that this ep I barely paid attention it was literally background noise while I was talking about it on FF lol.

    The only thing that sticks to mind was the info we got on the ring, also the scene with Stefan and the girl and her head falling off lol what?

    Sage was so lame I was expecting her to be similar to Katherine but she wasnt, also I was confused about this so called bff relationship she had with Damon because I didnt see it.

    I did quite like the Matt/Elena scene but it did annoy me that yes someone else has feelings for Elena, Im sure Elijah wil be back so it will be what? 4people lol.

    The Damon/Elena scene bugged but mainly because of Elena she was just so not mad. But than again it is Damon we cannot have her too mad at him.

    Rebecca was she in the ep? lol I felt like she was just there to be obvious about the tree so next ep the brothers will also find out about the tree lol.

    Honestly was not paying attention I think I even missed some scenes. I thought the ep was really underwhelming.

    • I don’t know why she’s proud. Sure, it’s the CW, but she’s pulling 2mil. Although my eyes almost popped out of my head when someone told me how much Nikita was pulling in (1mil).

      They should at least come up with a reason for why Klaus and Rebekah aren’t killing them. But it seems the writers can’t think of any either.

      Lol @ you not knowing what went down this ep. Rebekah was basically here to continue the Tree thing from 3.15. Basically.

      • ”I don’t know why she’s proud. Sure, it’s the CW, but she’s pulling 2mil. Although my eyes almost popped out of my head when someone told me how much Nikita was pulling in (1mil).”

        Exactly someone did a post showing the ratings in season 1, 2 and 3 and erm season 3 ratings have been down so she can carry on tweeting about the ratings lol.
        Also what I find even more funny is she is all there gloating or whatever and than on the other side you have Ian ”joking” around how no one even watches the show as well as trying to get people to watch lol.

        Woah at the Nikita ratings, is it coming back for another season? Seriously woah.

        • Lol. Maybe she only cares about being the highest rated, not whether or not the show loses people every season.

          Lmao @ Ian and Claire. And I know Ian has tweeted multiple times throughout the season urging people to watch. Hasn’t the show been renewed for a 4th season yet? Last I read, it was a shoo-in, but there wasn’t official word yet.

  4. Headache in your eye.

    Awww poor bb you sound congested.

    “my heart is dead right now.” Poor bb hugs

    Maybe Klaus kidnaps Abby again.

    another hiatus … I was going to joke about it but this is ridiculous.

    They are trying to hype Bonnie up … oh Esther … Julie said something about Esther coming back.

    The sun also rises …

    who’s grayson …

    what about Alaric? dying. want him dead.

    I don’t care. something would have to happen for Elena to not pick Stefan. She was all about him after the dance.

    julie wrote this episode …

    I feel like Emily is trolling from beyond the grave. These people are going after council members. the same ones who burned her at the stake. the same ones who stole the land. I like to think that Emily was solely out for herself and her family line.

    Alaric’s killed more people than vampires … welp.

    speaking of irritability … the way he (stefa) was talking to Bonnie …

    all this hot/cold stuff is in fanfic … i guess

    I thought Sage was coded as a queer

    Kol is not cute. >_>

    The vampire community is very close knit, that’s why they all know each other.

    I bet Damon was going after the maids and the slaves too. >_>

    That victim is like Sookie Stackhouse. 🙂 I saw a comparison and lol’d

    when he tried to put the head back on I laughed. ;x

    Nope, John Gilbert made no rings

    Elena … took a dump all over everything. Matt was like: okay … i still love you

    Bonnie is the type to blame and hold a grudge against Elena.

    Someone compared Bonnie’s journey to Buffy’s and they are kinda alike story telling wise. Bonnie has come from a long line of “balance keepers” she has been called and the torch has been passed down from a previous barer. Considering that there is more then one witch per generation it could be a continuation of what happened on Buffy. Many witches (slayers) for the many evils of the world.

    the characters and the writers aren’t good at planning. 😡

    I’m not surprised about Damon and the way he is. Why doesn’t he do that stuff in front of Bonnie? Because that would give Kat Graham/Bonnie Bennett screen-time.

    Well Damon Killed Jeremy in front of Elena and she forgave him. it’s only a matter of time before Bonnie come’s around …

    oop Elena is a shitty friend. she sucks.

  5. ”Kol isn’t anything to look at, but he looks better than Finn.”

    Looool it is funny how hair can change a person, I think he looked better with the pirate hair lol. Also hmm I think Kol is cute but Nate offscreen I think he looks better actually saying that most of them look better offscreen IDK what is going on in the makeup/hair department.

  6. I know about all-nighters but I toned it down the last months. Hope you feeling better and you don´t have to do it again!
    TeamVeryLowExpectations!
    In comparison to episode 17 1912 was pretty good. At least we didn´t have to see Bonnie who acted like somebody I couldn´t even remember. I don´t know what happened with her, is this some big plan of the writers (hah!) or did they give her up already? I was so hopeful in regards to Rebecca Sonnenshine but I don´t know what happened between Our Town and this episode. Hopefully she will show us her strength again, but I don´t know if I will be here for this because she isn´t writing another episode this season.

    SPOILERS:
    Don´t feel Jamie either … I don´t know what it is but all his scenes were so weird, even when he hugged Abby, that looked like he didn´t even know what to do.
    Alaric/Bonnie: I don´t know about it, I have the feeling they cutted it out but Kat didn´t know about that at the time she gave that interview. Talked Matt Davis about scenes with Bonnie? And I have a feeling we will have to live with this guy a very long time … he will be in episode 18, 19 and 20. That´s probably when his “history” as a vampire hunter is revealed, Damon makes some kind of comment about this in the promo and perhaps that´s also when Bonnie/Alaric scenes will happen. And Nancy the editor who also tweeted about these witch scenes tweeted about a wonderful scene between the ” creature called Dalaric” and btw she shouldn´t probably has given that interview. Now the shippers have her on their radar. I checked her twitter again and she is like JP reassuring every single shipper that they will have to look forward to something. Urgh. That is why it is better if you stay away from twitter. It looks like episode 19 not only will be filled with Esther (probably) but also with much ToD drama. Can´t wait … oh and Nancy also mentioned again how much you can learn for life if you watch TVD, her daughter loves how you learn so many valuable things through the characters and what the show is focusing on – yep that´s really lovely. She must watch a different show.
    I have the feeling the picture Persia tweeted is not from the final, because her name was definetly not on the list and the last time she tweeted a pic with Ian it was also a long time after she took it because it was behind the scenes of episode 15, but she tweeted it more than a week later. I think it is either from 21 in which Abby is back for sure or it is from episode 18 because Ian wears the same shirt we can see in the promo for episode 18. But that colour is not unusual for him so I wouldn´t bet on this. I´m relieved that she is not back in the final because if she would have been that I could totally see her dying. Coming back in episode 21 doesn´t make her chance to survive any bigger but at her death in the final would be for sure imo.
    We discussed this picture in the Bonnie Bennett Spoiler thread on ff: http://miss-stelena.tumblr.com/post/19790366844/so-this-confirms-that-elijah-will-be-in-the and although the person thinks that Daniel is back in the final I speculate this shooting plan is for the last day of episode 21, because they only started shooting for the final the day the pic was tweeted . We got out of this that the two different colours mean two different units/probably crews to shoot with and the numbers and the letter mean the time they probably start shooting or have to be on set for example Nina 8.30 am, Kat 2pm, ADR means recording in the studio.
    Like I mentioned in the email I think it will be Esther … don´t think they would bring back Ayanna but if they bring her back it would be again disrespect to Bonnie if she is not there.
    “Before the sunset” – somebody who was on set at the time they shot the episode, said that Joseph was filming a scene in which he was in front of the Gilbert house with stones in his hands and threw them at the front door and windows (sounds familiar, right?). Damon´s car was standing by the house. Don´t know about anything … but it looks like episode 20 and 21 will be like two parts and play directly after another. But that´s not unusual this season, we had many episodes who only had one day between them.
    Final script – I discussed this with Emily, why did they decide to choose some newbies to write the final? Finch only wrote one episodes and Matthews not even one, I don´t even know his former work. Of course JP wrote the screenplay but I think that is weird. But they did the same last season and we know how it ended.
    I would hate it if it is because of Jeremy seeing them and this ghost storyline coming back for him. But like Emily said I think we only see the three of them in the flashbacks.
    Matt Davis said something similar on twitter last year but in the end he wasn´t even in danger of dying.
    The people I think who could die are Klaus, Tyler and Alaric … I don´t know about Rebekah and Elijah – I think JP will hold both of them and I´m not happy about that. Meredith could die in my opinion but she probably won´t. They killed Vicki who was in the books. I have a feeling that they will entomb Klaus or he will be turned into a human as ridiculous it may sound and be. Probably some innocent bystanders will die.
    Don´t know what to do with the “pseudo-villain” comment. But I would love to see it being Bonnie.
    So she really said she would choose one brother? I thought she would choose herself but if they really turn (what I don´t see happening … or perhaps) then I could see her choosing Damon because he probably gave her the blood and they could make a parallel to the books in which she ran to Damon after she turned into a vampire because of some kind of sire thing … but I don´t know if they would do this. Don´t think the DE shippers would be happy about this.
    I can´t see her choosing Damon if she stays human … that would be ridiculous, so I will go with Stefan.
    Everyone is overhyping the final this year, I saw so many tweets from the producers and writers … what happened last year? Was it the same? I don´t know what to think. They also over-hyped episode 14 and nothing came out of this.

    EPISODE:
    Alaric/ killer reveal:
    saw him being the killer too from the start but I agree with you the reveal about the ring is interesting but they did this very messy and slobby but that´s not new this season, love your idea about the killer being on a rampage but they don´t use Carol and Liz in a proper way, there was never suspense in it because not many people were involved with this sl and nobody reacted to it, shouldn´t be Caroline on the search for who killed her father? And now it is Alaric and she doesn´t even react to it but asks Bonnie for help on Elena´s behalf, don´t know why Samantha died so often perhaps Sage didn´t like her and her face, they don´t know what to do with Meredith … her character is such a mess and her actions can´t even be reasoned, that´s definitely JPs fault, I don´t have much contact to big book fans but I can understand if they hate them for doing this to one of the favourite characters
    In regards to Liz/Caroline like we always thought what they are talking about at the beginning of the season won´t play out on screen because they don´t plan it but want to talk about all the awesome stuff so that the fans of the character can look forward to something, we never saw anything about this, the only guardian/parent/child relationship we saw this season was Alaric/Elena.

    Salvatore Brothers:
    Wasn´t very interested in the flashbacks and the Sage/Damon interactions. Was disgusted by Sage comments but I don´t understand why some stans blamed Sage for Damon becoming a rapist, that was all his own decision. I love Cassidy but the writers don´t give her the material to shine … I liked her scenes in the promo more, in the episode they felt flat even more.
    I liked the first flashback and how they cutted it from Stefan reading his diary to the funeral scene. That looked very beautiful.
    Wasn´t a fan of the last scene between the brothers I think I mentioned it already in the last post for the episode discussion, why did he have to say “You are the only one I have left now” – Stefan is the one he always had but they probably included it because of the possibility of Delena, because if Elena ever chooses him this could change pretty fast. That guilt from Damon was so weird because of what happened in season 1 and 2 but like you said they didn´t plan the road they wanted to take with Stefan and therefore Damon´s relationship with his brother and that is why it is retconned.
    It´s TVD everything has to be connected … lol. Saw that “one true love” between her and Finn coming, but also the involvement of Abby with entombing Mikael. And it wouldn´t have been so bad if they really did something out of these connections, but they fail every single time.
    I don´t know why but the one liners and all these animal jokes didn´t amuse me at all. I was probably so distracted by Damon´s new look and I don´t know why he looked so unattractive this episode. I think it had something to do with the make-up and the new hair cut.
    I don´t think they will have him succeed having moderation. He will probably tick out at some point probably next season.
    Did Stefan kill that Lockwood girl from the funeral? Because she looked like her … but I don´t know and I thought it was weird that Damon killed Samantha and Stefan killed the Lockwood girl.
    Recognized this too of course Emily´s work isn´t mentioned and also Elena spoke about this in episode 17, like they were her family rings that is why she is responsible for it and what happened to Alaric.

    Elena/Matt:
    Don´t feel her since episode 15 and so I was not very impressed by all her scenes, especially that scene with Damon, love your alternative for the kitchen scene, I spoke with Emily about this Elena and her friends/family vs. Elena and the Salvatores and like you said awhile ago and here if we would be real she can´t have it both ways but it looks like that´s what the writers are doing, I´m really not looking forward to this whole Triangle stuff that we will probably see in the next episodes while having episode 15 still in my mind, I can´t with this even if Bonnie has really forgiven her she will probably don´t go against the Salvatores because of Elena and all the Original stuff that is going on urgh, they really shouldn´t have done that, I´m tired of this self-blaming too … nothing comes out of this, no conflict, no consequences I hate it and I don´t see this changing, it really looks like they are chasing through the rest of the season and hurry up with all the storylines but the premise isn´t even good enough to have my interest, I agree with all you said about that Damon/Elena scene, Damon reacted as expected but Elena was such a fail … I couldn´t deal with it, I really like your speculation about the writers don´t even know why Elena loves Damon … I´m looking forward to how they will explain it in the later episodes because I think they will have her declare her love for him, I know that many DE-fans are excited that she can´t describe why she is still interacting with him and developing feelings for him but I think it is weak but we will see how the writers will handle it, Elena´s convenient compassion is only there when it comes to vampires and mostly the Salvatore brothers, you mentioning that reference to Beremy lol I noticed that too, don´t get the Alaric/Elena stuff either but they tried to develop it from the start of the season and my dislike for his character makes me not care about this
    Don´t have a favourite character or line because this episode was very confusing and anti-climatic for me especially in regards to the episode that aired before. I hope I won´t get that feeling with the final which is also written by Finch.
    Looking forward to your podcast about episode 17.

    • Sorry that looked better organized when I wrote this in word … now it is only a big wall of text, hopefully someone can read this and doesn´t get headache after it.

    • I checked her twitter again and she is like JP reassuring every single shipper that they will have to look forward to something.

      Oh that’s just great.

      her daughter loves how you learn so many valuable things through the characters and what the show is focusing on

      What the heck is the show focusing on atm? I know it’s a tragedy, but….what?

      Joseph was filming a scene in which he was in front of the Gilbert house with stones in his hands and threw them at the front door and windows (sounds familiar, right?).

      *______*.

      I mentioned in the podcast that that the finale was being written by Finch and some random person, but, and this might’ve been me trying to delude myself, I noticed that it didn’t strictly say “Written by,” so I edited the comment out. I don’t get the smarts in letting newbies write the season finales for your show.

      They killed Vicki who was in the books.

      Didn’t she die in the books too? And Tyler was the one to kill her?

      Thanks for all the BTS info!

      Sage didn’t force Damon to become anything. The man could’ve refused, but he chose not to.

      Saw that “one true love” between her and Finn coming, but also the involvement of Abby with entombing Mikael. And it wouldn´t have been so bad if they really did something out of these connections, but they fail every single time.

      Yes. They state it and move on. They don’t explore the what, why, how, when, for the character they’re trying to connect (in this case Abby and Sage), not anymore.

      It’s weird. I always thought Stefan killed Samantha, but Damon said he’s the one who killed her. So Stefan did kill the Lockwood. Ugh.

  7. I finally watched this ep and..UGH! I love torturing myself.

    Anyway, I was wondering how anyone could be as incompetent as the writers of this show and still call themselves writers. This episode is ridiculous. The whole thing about Sage convincing Damon to be a monster and Damon convincing Stefan is so badly done – just terribly executed. That’s for real bad writing imo.

    I think the issue is that they have SO many storylines going on, and they’re SO complex. So the script skips steps here and there and everywhere in order to get all of the storylines wrapped up ASAP and involving as many characters as possible. That leads to total incoherence. I, personally, think it stems from over-ambitiousness and disorganization which could be solved by much better leadership. #JPIsMadeOfFail

    I mean, if you were handed a piece of paper that said you had to have a murder mystery with red herrings, Damon becoming a monster in 1912 due to some random woman, Damon turning Stefan into a monster in 1912 AND 2012, Stefan struggling with blood addiction, the Sheriff having issues with Carol et al, Rebekah looking for a weapon AND Elena and Matt possibly falling in love while protecting possibly!crazy!Alaric, ALL in one ep, could you do it? No, you could not. You would have to be super!writer. This is why, even though the concepts are all interesting and could be great if executed well, I don’t think anybody would actually be capable of executing them well in a single episode. Combine that with the amount of time the writers have to write an episode and it is a recipe for disaster.

    So I’m like, JP, you are setting yourself and your writers up to fail, which means setting the show up to fail. Why was there a murder mystery AND flashbacks AND Stefan overcoming blood addiction AND Rebekah looking for the current McGuffin AND Elena and Matt teaming up to protect Alaric AND Alaric going crazy, all in a single ep? Why not just one of those SLs, and a smaller SL as the B-story to give that major SL more depth? The B-story could be something like: the brothers consider how the murder mystery effects their relationship or the brothers consider how their present relationship is similar to their past one or the brothers argue while another couple falls in love — while all try to protect one person they care about. Idk. I am not a writer, ok. But this show is a disorganized mess that sometimes comes off as extremely offensive. Btw, did Giuseppe get a maid pregnant or was it a “maid”?

    One good thing I will say about the ep is that it looks great. I love how the flashbacks were shot. They are diff from the flashbacks last season because they’re in a diff time. Pretty awesome.

    • I finally watched this ep and..UGH! I love torturing myself.

      Lmao!

      I think the issue is that they have SO many storylines going on, and they’re SO complex. So the script skips steps here and there and everywhere in order to get all of the storylines wrapped up ASAP and involving as many characters as possible. That leads to total incoherence.

      I completely, totally, and absolutely agree! They have so many “events” happening, and they want every single one to affect the Trio. Elena must pause and reflect after every.single.event. And these events usually happen in one episode when in reality the writers would be better off attacking two or three at the most per season. Just to make sure every character does get involved and we don’t have Jeremy and Tyler being shoved offscreen, Caroline barging in on Bonnie’s storyline to continue her storyline because they missed/glossed over the chance to do it back when it was revelant, that is back when Bill 1)tortured her 2)came back. I mean, why the heck couldn’t her scenes with Abby, her words, happen in a scene after she saved Bill from Damon? Why did we only get him telling her she’d never be okay? Why didn’t the scenes happen when Bill came back? Why was it all about Tyler/Forwood? Because they skip steps, that’s why, and because Caroline is one of their favorites, they actually keep it in mind to backtrack, even if that means stomping all over a character like Bonnie. I mean, seriously, do I think they’ll backtrack when it comes to the Bonnie/Abby relationship and have Abby come back and at least give that story a little weight? No, I don’t.

      Like someone said in a meta about this show, it’s dark but it’s not deep. Not really. Sometimes it gets lucky, but overal the deepness has been going down.

      For my piece of mind, I’ll assume he meant maid. According to TVD, none of these characters have any other race in them, especially not the White ones. Not even Klaus, who’s supposed to be half Native American.

      • For my piece of mind, I’ll assume he meant maid.

        Oh idk. I wouldn’t put it past JP to make Bonnie related to the Salvatores – if only to fuck with the Bamon shippers. We already know that she is not above getting into fangirl flamewars.

        Maybe this is why Emily got Damon to save her kids (maybe one could “pass”) and not Stefan. (1) Because she didn’t want to tell the “good one” about his father’s indiscretions (2) Because Damon already knew. Of course, Emily will still be a “handmaid” in this scenario so we can conveniently not delve into what a Giuseppe/Emily relationship really means

        But anyway, I am not even sure if they said maid. I don’t recall. Maybe they said he impregnated a local woman?? Do you remember?

        • Ew. I do not want Salvatore blood in the Bennett line. Ugh.

          Yeah, he definitely said maid. I guess that’s how we know. He said maid, not “handmaiden.” Lmao.

          • You see that’s the kind of detail I think is interesting (if it was a “maid” and “handmaiden” is a term used for the slaves who waited on ladies or wtvr). But, of course, it’s a throwaway line so we don’t worry about the plot hole and not actually something that will be explored. I mean, there could be an entire SERIES about how the family line (the HUMAN line) of the family is being carried on by the son of their father and a slave. However, it’s just a bandaid over a plot hole in the episode about Sage (who?)

            LOL bizarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

            They are always in such a hurry to skip over the interesting stuff and move on to the boring stuff. For example, when Esther showed up, I thought we would get at least one ep that explored her relationship with her children – just one *whole* ep in which we weren’t sure what her intentions were. Wouldn’t that have increased the tension and also been fun? Wouldn’t there be a lot of weirdness with even having a mom at that point? You are 1000 yrs old but your mom is still going to think of you as her kid. And she’s still deciding things for you like whether you LIVE OR DIE lol. Idk, I would also think they’d all be kind of into the idea of impressing her because she died right when they turned into vamps. You’d think they would want to be like, but see mom, we’re doing great! At least some of them. Meanwhile, she knows the truth about them but plays along and maybe indulges in the fantasy a little? That could have been what the ball was about sort of except none of them were vying for her attention (seriously? Who wouldn’t be a little interested in their mother if they thought she was dead for a long time? No questions? )or making a show about being awesome in any way. Klaus spent the whole time talking about trustworthy horses to Caroline, for god’s sake. I would think the resident crazies, in the Original Family, Rebekah and Klaus would be all about impressing her – especially Klaus because he *killed* her. You’d think he’d be staying far away but meanwhile secretly trying to put impressiveness together. Like, oh he doesn’t really see her but then he concocts some grand gesture to impress her from afar 😛 . And if Rebkah cares this much about female friends, I have a hard time believing she wouldn’t have wanted to go shopping for a ball gown with her mom.

            Also, wouldn’t it be nice if any of the characters actually acted like people do *in any way*?

            • And she’s still deciding things for you like whether you LIVE OR DIE lol.

              LOL!

              Klaus spent the whole time talking about trustworthy horses to Caroline, for god’s sake.

              I’m dying! I at least through there’d be drama and tension over the fact that she participated in their mother. At the very least when it comes to Rebekah. But no. These are the most well-adjusted vamps. Except when they’re not.

              Also, wouldn’t it be nice if any of the characters actually acted like people do *in any way*?

              This is a novel concept for this show, smh.

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