Episode 68: TVD’s Dangerous Liaisons

Episode 68

Caller: Cana

Spoiler Chat: 01:49.451-09:40.437

This episode was entertaining on rewatch. Esther hosts a ball just so her kids can take a sip of champagne, I have a lot of words with Caroline over the shade throws Bonnie’s way, Cana and I happily flail over how Bonnie and Elena’s stories could go in episode 15. It could’ve been their destiny to stop Klaus together (moot point now), Esther’s presence makes no sense, and Klaus has a bleeding heart (who knew?!).

Quotes of the Podcast: “I thought I was watching BET or something, ’cause I was like, is this the CW?”-Cana

“It should’ve been Bonnie and Elena, Bonnie using her powers and Elena using her body to take out the people who used it [her body] against her in the first place.”-Cana

Julie Plec answers a question

Tyler Lockwood

Mega Buzz

Meta

Advertisements

36 thoughts on “Episode 68: TVD’s Dangerous Liaisons

  1. I picked Klaus, because he doodles

    I hope you did good on your test! 🙂

    Spoiler!

    What! *side eye* Some norm might be getting upgraded tp regular status? I’m grinding my teeth because all I cane think of is Greta Martin.

    I feel bad for Tyler and Michael Trevino. smh

    I don’t want Lucy to come back. Bring back Greta or Gloria since they are bringing witches back from the dead. *shrug*

    *Vampire Hunter Days* >_> the first vampire he killed — THANK YOU! Logan Fells. Gosh this means he’s not dead from the gunshot. Meridith missed. 🙄

    Ester threw a ball so Elena could wear a pretty dress. That’s it. >_>

    Elena confirmed that Bonnie and Abby were no longer in the cave.

    I smell compulsion. They all know the steps and they call came to the party on the day. Dropped everything. there’s a party. There must be a MF rule or something. If there’s a party you have to be there or you have to leave town.

    This episode totally reads like Fanfiction. I meant he scene where Elena has a Salvatore on each arm. … STOP.

    CAROLINE! smh Bad, bad Caroline! That was a Julie Plec note. Bet. SHADE!

    This is when I wanted some Bonnie/Tiki fic. I mean since Caroline wants to close ranks, Tiki could notice and ask Bonnie where her friends are.

    I would loved to hear Bonnie ask Esther “why would she do that?” when Esther told her Ayannah preserved her body. It should have been a curse. “you will not rest until you’ve righted the wrong you’ve done.”

    The producers have tunnel vision.

    “In the same episode yo have Damon asking if anyone feels a little used!” UGGGGGGHHHHH!

    “Original Witch” who took lessons from Ayannah … okay? *side-eye*

    YES! Esther is a parasite.

    When you went on that tangent. When you talk about Elena taking her power back you were expressing everything I felt.

    Laugh to keep from crying.

    Elena using her power to talk out Klaus and his family, after Klaus took away Jenna and her Isobel and threatened Jeremy. Elena and Bonnie take out his entire family. And what! Stefan and Damon only get in the way.

    Matt:

    LMAO Matt really!

    That is exactly what Elena said to Bonnie after SHE (Bonnie) brough up being attacked by Damon in the woods. “Oh BTW how are you?” Really Elena? *side-eye* I guess she figured he let her cry on his shoulder a few minutes/hours ago. she should ask him so he’ll feel obligated to be there next time. *shrug*

    Matt was just trying to get the fuck otta dodge! peace Elena

    “Why is Matt in this episode?” because he was invited to meet the white people quota. 😡

    Rebekah looks older Kol

    “HIs little thing” lol

    Matt’s Jacket is like the green mushroom in Super Mario Bro. 1up!

    It is Matt/Caroline. Rebeka wanted to have fun in the 20’s, but she was also a differen person back then.

    Elena:

    Elena stole the Bonnie’s thunder, telling who was in the coffin

    Damon:

    awww i didn’t feel bad for him.
    awww damon’s progressing.

    I don’t know why Stefan was freaking out. He should have come out of there stolling

    I liked Rebakah’s dress. I would have worn that. Elena’s was pretty/flashier but I think Reba (shrug) was better in her dress than Elena was in hers. She didn’t carry, the dress it carried her.

    Wait though, when Bonnie made he entrance it was to no one. It was to Klaus. Caroline and Elena always have an audience. smh

    lol Esther’s punishment … Esther could be walking around without a heart.

    LMAO Poor Alta. you can hear it in your voice.

    Stefan and that line …. >_> why and how can he be so judgy?

    that’s not love that’s obsession. O_O

    Klaus:

    Klaus at the grill LOL! Everything about Klaus! LOL

    HORSES! LOL I expected them to eat the horse. I wanted it so bad. Klaus wants someone to nuzzle him.

    in those 1000 Klaus was doing his sister. *shrug*

    I wish the family killed him and that had been the weapon.

    Klaroline was hilarious.

    YES! I thought someone was going to eat that horse. I wanted it so back. Cherry on top.

    Strong: “I’d like to see some recites” LMAO “where is he pulling this out of?” his ass.

    Caroline is privileges. I saw this scene and I was wondering if it was supposed to go to Bonnie. Not that Bonnie has ever wanted for things financially. she doesn’t work she has a car in high school so … But I don’t know where this stuff is coming from on Caroline’s side. I’m pretty sure she has traveled. Her daddy took care of her. Thank you. Bonnie doesn’t have property … >_>

    Caroline scoffed 3 times because she couldn’t get the box opened.

    yo this is so fanfic-y! I was laughing my ass off. It would have been more ridiculous id Klaus had put himself in the picture. lol or they were on the horse or something. LOL!

    Tyler never drew Caroline anything. nope. he colored a fan with her and the had lots of sex but that’s it

    you’re favorite scene is coming up! My mom saw the scene and was like …o_O.

    Ian was just not keeping up with Claire that’s all. lol I like Claire

    the best sex scenes are Katherine/Stefan … this show doesn’t really have great sex scenes. I don’t care much about teenagers banging. I like the dynamics.

    Kissing scene Damon/Katherine 1:22 that was hot.

    Worst Music que for me what Miss Mystic Falls the dance scene. I don’t like it to look fan made.

    • Gosh this means he’s not dead from the gunshot. Meridith missed.

      I think it’s ridiculous of them to release this spoiler when we were supposed to be left wondering if Meredith had killed Alaric.

      It should have been a curse. “you will not rest until you’ve righted the wrong you’ve done.”

      It should have. But then it would have to only apply to her family because she cannot undo every vamp’s existence.

      Matt was just trying to get the fuck otta dodge! peace Elena

      Lmao. He sensed that the time for Elena to attract danger was nigh.

      “Why is Matt in this episode?” because he was invited to meet the white people quota.

      Ugh.

      She does look older.

      Reba (shrug) was better in her dress than Elena was in hers. She didn’t carry, the dress it carried her.

      Reba! Tikki’s Grandad! Lmao. And you’re kind of right about Elena’s dress carrying her.

      It wasn’t to Klaus. It was to no one (and the audience, I guess) when she opened the double doors and strolled down the hall.

      in those 1000 Klaus was doing his sister. *shrug*

      Ugh. That would be more interesting (and hotter) than Klaroline.

      It would have been more ridiculous id Klaus had put himself in the picture. lol or they were on the horse or something.

      Lmao!

      I actually like the MMF music cue. I didn’t at the time of course because I felt it was too ridiculous and too quick for DE. Ugh. I still don’t appreciate that they used a song I love for DE as it was at the time.

      • They are keeping Alaric around because they like Matt. >_> Stop.

        Reba! Tikki’s Grandad! Lmao. I’m kinda tired of typing out her whole ridiculous name.

        Ugh. That would be more interesting (and hotter) than Klaroline.

        I agree and then Bonnie could bring up the Martin’s (and Maddox i guess) treatment and be totally uninterested by Klaus’s advances. BUT the Salvatore’s could feel threatened and maybe try harder for Bonnie’s “affections”.

        I actually like the MMF music cue.

        It’s just hella cheesy to me.

  2. HEY!!!

    Spoilers:

    ~ I’m sorry if Meredith becomes a regular character I give that marriage a season until it’s falling apart. That’s me being mean, but honestly NO. She doesn’t need to be regular. Her character contributes nothing to the show.

    ~ There is nothing worse than that. DYING? Pfft!

    ~ They are going to make up some bullshit past for him. The only thing I would accept is him accidentally killing humans in his “vampire hunting days”.

    ~ They’ll never get rid of Alaric because Matt Davis is a great person?!? That is the worst reason to keep a character alive.

    ~ That’s good news about Bonnie and Elena. All I want is more conflict between the characters.

    ~ She could have just had a dinner. The ball probably made them suspicious. I was hoping we’d find out one of them hadn’t taken a sip.

    ~ Matt knowing the steps makes no sense. He shouldn’t know.

    ~ I totally missed Stefan saying Mayor Lockwood was the reason he was there.

    ~ Maybe they were waltzing in those days. The year 1000 wouldn’t have been ancient times. Maybe they went to Europe? I don’t even know.

    ~ They’re both closer to Bonnie.

    ~ Why Bonnie would ever have a preference, between those two, is beyond me.

    ~ “He looked like the village idiot.” Too true!

    ~ Elijah said he was a recluse and the thing about not trusting his inner circle.

    ~ If there is ever a time your one character of color disappears then there is a problem. Not to mention only having one character of color.

    ~ It’s Mystic Falls! Ball gowns are always at the ready. Maybe everyone is really poor and went for the free meal. The only thing they’re willing to pay for are ball gowns and tuxes.

    ~ “In your village with the huts” *dead*

    ~ The Originals should have been Europeans.

    ~ My issues with Esther have to do with 1) not getting what she feels guilty about 2) how exactly she’s drawing on their power and how, 3) and not understanding the hows of “her being able to draw on generations.”

    ~ Witches are the only reason anything on this show happens. Witches are the only reason the show exists.

    ~ What’s weird about Esther watching only her children’s sins is the actual abomination of what she did was 1) killing her children to violate nature (a parent should never out live his/her child) blah blah blah 2) she didn’t have to watch any other vampire’s actions, considering she did that and made it possible, 3) her mistake is bigger than it was when she made it and 4) this didn’t drive her crazy? All of her children are loons and that didn’t get to her? Like I enjoy her making the tough decisions, but I want there to be more coherency in her story. Because her gentle heart led her to kill her children (and some girl who two of her sons loved) because she didn’t want to watch them die. The show hasn’t quite made those inconsistencies live together in how they are telling the story. OR maybe I just want the writing to be better so the story that is being told was stronger.

    ~ Stop talking about how beautiful this story line could have been for Bonnie and Elena as equals. Seriously, I’m over here crying because that would be a wonderful story. Absolutely beautiful on the level of the families you choose and friendship and the love that existed at the beginning of the show.

    ~ I don’t get how this doppelganger thing works because Tatia was the girl whose blood turned Elijah and Klaus (and the rest of the originals) into vampires. She wasn’t the girl sacrificed to put Klaus’s werewolf side down. So I don’t get who Elena and Katherine are supposed to be doppelgangers of.

    ~ Matt was in this episode to hint at Rebekah/Matt for no reason. So there was no reason. I don’t get it. What they could do with Matt they won’t do, so I get a bit annoyed by them doing what they do with this. You’re explaining yourself very well. I’m still waiting for the writers to screw Matt over. Because his “normal” thing is actually interesting when it’s who he is instead of…what he talks about.

    Matt doesn’t need to be in this episode. I think he was in it in order to give Rebekah a reason to sleep with Damon.

    ~ Rebekah has been repeatedly daggered though. So who knows how many dudes she’s actually gotten to interact with over the years? She was apologizing for inviting him to the party to kill him. I thought Matt’s reaction was meant to convey that he had realized that she invited him to the party to attack him. Or that he had taken a chance on being cool with the supernatural and he broke his hand for his efforts. And the scene with his jacket, he looked constipated to me and a bit confused, but not angry.

    ~ You know how I feel about all of the Stefan/Elena bullshit in this episode. Stefan gives no shits about her agency.

    ~ You have a great point. I’d even forgotten in that moment where Stefan was like “what are you doing Damon?” that he walked through a regular old Founders’ event and killed a hybrid in the middle of things. I miss that Stefan. I miss that Stefan terribly.

    ~ HOw would Esther even be able to do that spell on herself?

    ~ I can’t even talk about Stefan because yeah. He’s still killing people. And I just roll my eyes whenever he’s woobified because that is Stefan at his least interesting.

    ~ I’m dying at your Klaus impression. “I don’t even know if i’m going mom!” Maybe he was particularly lonely at that time. And a horse was his bff.

    ~ You’re right! Whenever Angelus broke into Buffy’s house in s2 of BTVS everyone freaked out.

    ~ I’m dying over here.

    ~ Didn’t they tell us at one point that we already knew one of the Originals? I mean they lie a lot, but I’d prefer if the writers simply talked less.

    ~ That Rebekah/Damon sex scene was ridiculous. She did look like she was in the middle of getting there. Maybe they did a lot of stuff on the ride home. Rose and Damon were like watching fish kissing.

    The best sex scenes?

    Top Five (in no particular order):

    5. Jeremy and Vicki that one time when they were cast half in shadow in his room.
    4. Jeremy and Vicki against the bus.
    3. Damon and Katherine when she comes back.
    2. Stefan and Elena at the cabin before they get distracted by the hollowness in the wall/that one time during the blood!arc before he freaked out/in that dream she had about Stefan right before he turns into Damon (minus the whole turning into Damon part) Between these three make outs for these two.
    1. I really enjoy Stefan and Katherine’s second or third time. When she’s talking about how they’re going to be together forever. Even though he’s under the compulsion. Actually, I’ll go for the first time when he wasn’t under it.

    As far as sweetest/hottest?

    Bonnie and Jeremy (I will be obvious!)
    Matt and Caroline in front of his truck and before his mom walked in on them.

    • ~ There is nothing worse than that. DYING? Pfft!

      Lmao. And I agree about Meredith.

      ~ Why Bonnie would ever have a preference, between those two, is beyond me.

      I agree. I always imagined a scene like one that occurred in Charmed where Prue and Phoebe wanted to know which one of them Piper would make Maid of Honor. And Bonnie would say whichever one is not getting on her nerves in the days leading up to her wedding. That is to say, I see it as her being close to both and sometimes she’ll drift to one when she’s having problems with the other (especially since the Salvatores came to town).

      The Originals should have been Europeans.

      They should’ve. That’s how I pictured them what with Elijah’s accent.

      ~ Stop talking about how beautiful this story line could have been for Bonnie and Elena as equals. Seriously, I’m over here crying because that would be a wonderful story. Absolutely beautiful on the level of the families you choose and friendship and the love that existed at the beginning of the show.

      *Sigh.*

      ~ I don’t get how this doppelganger thing works because Tatia was the girl whose blood turned Elijah and Klaus (and the rest of the originals) into vampires. She wasn’t the girl sacrificed to put Klaus’s werewolf side down. So I don’t get who Elena and Katherine are supposed to be doppelgangers of.

      That’s the continuity error. Because Katherine said Petrova blood was spilled to curse Klaus (which I took to mean the girl was killed. Curses are not nice things). In 3.13 Elijah says Tatia’s blood was the one they drank. And they found this out later which makes it seem like Tatia died (who did they find this out from?). And it seemed like Esther cursed Klaus soon after turning him, so….The fact that the writers didn’t position this new info against the old info makes me think they forgot and it’s a continuity error.

      Because his “normal” thing is actually interesting when it’s who he is instead of…what he talks about.

      This.

      I thought Matt’s reaction was meant to convey that he had realized that she invited him to the party to attack him.

      Then it’s weird that he wasn’t angrier. I don’t think he realizes because Rebekah put the whole thing on Kol, saying that he’s crazy or whatever.

      ~ HOw would Esther even be able to do that spell on herself?

      She shouldn’t be able to, otherwise all of the powerful witches would be alive.

      ~ Didn’t they tell us at one point that we already knew one of the Originals? I mean they lie a lot, but I’d prefer if the writers simply talked less.

      That sounds familiar. Because I remember people speculated about one or both of the Salvatores being related to the Originals.

      Ah, the first Matt/Caroline kiss was pretty sweet and hot. It was perfect.

    • And the scene with his jacket, he looked constipated to me and a bit confused, but not angry

      lmao

      Stefan and Elena … in that dream she had about Stefan right before he turns into Damon

      YES. though I feel like if anyone’d with Elena it’s bland. that was the exception.

      I like when Bonnie kissed Ben before she realized he was undead.

  3. words cannot express how much i love everything you’ve said in this podcast. @razycrandomgirl recommended i come here, & i’m so glad.

    caroline was throwing so much shade with that comment. like bonnie was just some person off the street. like, girl, you guys are a trio. it’s okay for her to tell you things that elena hasn’t told you. she’s part of you guys, remember?

    but while we’re on the subject of keeping important things from friends, how come caroline never brought up the fact that klaus sire ordered tyler to kill her, gave her his blood to heal her, speechified about some bs & then gifted her with a diamond bracelet? i’ll wait.

    i also love that you bring up the underlying consequences of bonnie exclusion from scenes like the one between esther & elena. elena has little to no interest in bennett history. so when it comes up, she doesn’t ask for an elaboration. it becomes, as you said, a tidbit for her and, therefore, a tidbit for the audience.

    it’s not even about pandering to the part of the audience that wants to know more. why shouldn’t bonnie’s family history be just as important as that of elena, the salvatores or the lockwoods? that history is not only more intertwined with elena’s than anyone else’s, but it’s actually very important all on its own because of the connection with the originals. yet, the writers refuse to elaborate on that because it would mean giving bonnie the screentime she deserves.

    the writers have created badass!klaus and emo!klaus. and, like harry potter vs voldemort, only one can live & the other must die. badass!klaus is an immediate threat that needs to be taken care of immediately. hence everybody being so desperate to do whatever they have to – die, be the better villain, betray comrades – in order to kill him. emo!klaus draws pictures of horses & has a lot of feelings. which makes all those desperate strategies completely moot. if the klaroline is supposed to mirror beauty & the beast then the writers needs to check their fail. the beast was a beast as punishment for being a terrible human. which, in disney terms, meant not giving money to an old homeless lady. klaus is klaus because his mother went beloved on her kids and stole their lives before anyone else did. then he made a legacy for himself as a psychotic monster.

    so the writers mean to tell me that there was one black woman in the village from which the mikaelsons hale, & she was esther’s friend? do they mean in the way that emily was katherine’s handmaiden? rme so hard.

    if esther is the original witch, then how did ayanna have the power to preserve esther’s body? more like the milli vanilli of original witches.

    which brings me to the point about bennett friendships with other people. i feel like the bennetts are equivalent of hunters on supernatural. because they know & fight the darkness, darkness is constantly chasing them. don’t know if you watch the show, but it’s something i’ve been thinking about lately.

    YES!YES!YES! bonnie effed up one time, & the dead witches cut her so completely. but this esther put their magik in a big gulp & has been sipping on it for years. i’m supposed to believe that they’re okay with that? i’m supposed to believe that they wouldn’t cut esther off because her & ayanna were “friends”? i shouldn’t be surprised with how stupid the writers think we are, but i can’t help it. they should know that we fact check like whoa, i don’t understand.

    the writers wrote themselves into a corner with the originals’ storyline. we were supposed to root for katherine because she was the lesser evil in comparison with elijah. then we were supposed to root for elijah because he was the lesser evil in comparison with klaus. then the writers didn’t know if we should should root for the original siblings to kill klaus or root for klaus to survive with them. now we’re supposed to root for the originals because they’re the lesser evil in comparison to esther & finn. it’s so confusing!!! if they had just made klaus the biggest villain then introduced the new white oak tree, then it would have been so much cleaner.

    i find it interesting that, & correct me if i’m wrong, all the witches that stay in mf are actively fighting to protect people. but the witches that leave stop caring about protecting people & just do whatever they want. would you agree?

    sorry for the essay. but your passion has ignited my passion. ty for this. i agree with pretty much everything you (& cana) talk about 🙂

    • Hi!

      Yeah, I still don’t know what that comment was. And in 3.15 there they were in the bedroom being like a trio.

      The writers are frequently so bad. Their priorities are so weird. Come on now, Klaus’ crush on Caroline is absolutely something we should see the girls talking about, and the fact that they’re not kind of takes away from the legitimacy of it. Like everything else this season, it’s happening in it’s own bubble. I don’t know why we never got Bonnie and Caroline talking about Abby.

      but it’s actually very important all on its own because of the connection with the originals. yet, the writers refuse to elaborate on that because it would mean giving bonnie the screentime she deserves.

      This. Bonnie’s history shouldn’t just be told for her fans. It should be told because it’s a staple of the show. But they don’t seem to find it cool or interesting enough even though they keep giving her more roots in the town. And now that I’m thinking about it, where would Ayanna would have even found Esther in order to mentor her? That’s so convenient (for the White people’s story, that is. I know there were Black people in Europe).

      so the writers mean to tell me that there was one black woman in the village from which the mikaelsons hale, & she was esther’s friend? do they mean in the way that emily was katherine’s handmaiden? rme so hard.

      Ugh.

      Esther’s only called the Original witch because she created vampires. Ayanna was clearly more powerful than her and that was reinforced in 3.15 when they said she was her mentor.

      No, I don’t watch Supernatural. I only watched the series premier. Lol.

      The dead witches are looking more and more suspect. The writing has taken away their irreverence. So they burn Damon for because they don’t like him, but let Abby get murdered by him? And let him walk out of the house? Okay. Okay.

      the writers wrote themselves into a corner with the originals’ storyline.

      So true. And I still don’t think they’ve thought of a way to kill Klaus.

      You have a point with that. It didn’t seem like Bree was saving anyone, Lucy left for greener pastures since she freed herself from Katherine, Gloria was chilling in her bar in Chicago. Hmm.

      Lol, no problem! Write an essay any time. I’m glad you enjoyed the podcast.

      • i really didn’t realize i had all those thoughts until i listened then started typing.

        i have a working theory. kat g. went to high school with jp & kw. she had a big party, but didn’t invite them. they don’t realize/can’t accept that she wanted to only there was already too many people. ever since, they’ve hailed her as a queen b who needs to be taken down a peg or two. which translates into how they’ve treated bonnie thus far.

        that’s all i have to explain why they seem to explicitly go out of there way to treat her like crap. almost like they think “could this scene use bonnie? then let’s leave her out.” “does this scene need bonnie? we’ll have someone else mention her.” “have the bonnie fans been complaining again? ugh! fine >:|”

        there are a lot of convenient things. like how damon could actively harm a bennett, but walk out without a scratch or a care. as if the audience could forget how long & hard he had to work just to get in the house. or how when bonnie misuses magik she suffers the consequences, but esther mooches like a parasite & it’s fine. because she was ayanna’s friend. i’ve been rme so hard over this, my head hurts.

        oh they’ll be figuring out a way to kill klaus soon. & it’s just as contrived as anything the writers has done this season.

        i would say bonnie should just leave. but 1) she’d never do that while elena was still in danger & 2) look how easily mf found then killed even the ones that got away. /lights candle for fallen bennett witches/.

        can’t wait for your next one so i can type another essay lol 🙂

        • Lmao.

          But yeah while I get the sense that they look at scenes and figure out how they can include Caroline, I don’t get the same sense when it comes to Bonnie.

          • this. hopefully, tho, us bonnie fans can really stick it to them & let them know we’re not gonna take this for much longer. something has to give. & if that means i stop watching the live show, then so be it. i love the show. i’ve loved it since it started. but i can’t put up with this. more importantly, kat g. shouldn’t have to put up with this.

        • yaaaaaaaaaaa! It really is nice to have a place where I don’t have to worry about my tone. I don’t know how I’m supposed to be pleasant all the time when this show seems to go out of it’s way to kick around the character I love and then Fandom and the creators back it like it’s the wholly bible.

          I have so many feelings …. And I’m tired of being humble and gracious. I’m angry and want to be able to release that anger through this character. She should allowed to be angry just like the male characters are allowed to on this show. Righteous anger!

          • I don’t know how I’m supposed to be pleasant all the time when this show seems to go out of it’s way to kick around the character I love and then Fandom and the creators back it like it’s the wholly bible.

            *Nods.*

          • exactly! i’m sooooo tired of the way bonnie is treated on the show. & i can’t say just how it upsets me because the focus of my argument is lost. but eff it. it’s just like you said, the writers go out of there way to shaft her, then a majority of the fandom backs it up like it’s bible. i’m already a minority in life three times over, why do i have to be the minority in fandom as well? it’s giving me a headache, but it’s also giving me the motivation to write my own version(s) of the bonnie story that i want to see.

    • klaus is klaus because his mother went beloved on her kids
      LMAO! I shouldn’t laugh but I can’t help it!

      more like the milli vanilli of original witches.

      *ded*

    • which brings me to the point about bennett friendships with other people. i feel like the bennetts are equivalent of hunters on supernatural. because they know & fight the darkness, darkness is constantly chasing them. don’t know if you watch the show, but it’s something i’ve been thinking about lately.

      I will have to say that Dean would never work with witches because he hates them … But he’s hated demon’s and has worked with them. I just seems like if the evil thing he has to work with has lady parts than it’s EXTRA EVIL in his eyes. One of the reasons I can’t with Dean. And if there is crossover fic Bonnie has to interact with Sam because Dean is just so horrible.

      It will be like Name calling and then he’ll try to shoot/stab her. Ugh And Bonnie already gets too much abuse. Plus I think the witches fix more than the hunter could ever imagine too. Even with Angel Help. *shrug*

      • that attitude was one of the things he had in common with michael. not even his hypocrisy, but his tendency to ride the high horse. he’s always thought more in black/white, while sam thinks more in grey.

        but i did the comparison because, as far as being a self-appointed protector, both the spn verse hunters & tvd verse witches give up a lot. they’re constantly pushing their needs aside for the greater good. they constantly take on the bad so that others can live well. they sacrifice for people they don’t even know because it’s just the right thing to do. only difference is, that seems to be more of a bennett witch thing than a general witch thing.

        which is why i want dean/bonnie fic that doesn’t make him treat her like total scuzz. i truly believe that if he met her, talked to her & heard her story then he’d actually like her. she protects & sacrifices because it’s right. he protects & sacrifices because it’s right. at the end of the day, even dean does think in black/white, he’s proven with lenore that he look beyond that & into the grey when facts are staring him in the face.

        i disagree with that because of another witch/hunter similarity. the job never ends. there’s always something to fight, a battle to win.

        after damon, there were the tomb vampires. then elijah. then klaus. then the original siblings. then the original mom. then the original family reunion. with all the og’s except for klaus & rebekah gone, now she has to deal with them.

        just like after azazel (aka yellow eyes) there was sam possibly going darkside & john’s deal with azazel. then it was sam dying. then it was dean’s deal. then it was sam working with ruby. the angels. the apocalypse. cas’ deal with crowley. purgatory. leviathans.

        they both learn that even when things are calm, something bad is always coming.

        /releases deep breath/ lol i didn’t realize i had all those thoughts about that.

        • I love this. I have to point out that the Winchesters/hunters are always killing people. I mean we see them kill more people than save. And Dean will do anything to keep his brother with him …

          We have never seen a witch kill anything … which is suspect. We have seen them aid vampires who cause death, but never delivered the fatal blow themselves. Jonas got close with the bottle in Matt’s neck though. lol

          I feel like the witches aren’t as selfish as the Winchesters/hunters. They maintain a balance and the hunters just seem to want revenge or are really aimless. The Dean wants to kill all the monsters and Bonnie want’s to maintain the balance.

          i disagree with that because of another witch/hunter similarity. the job never ends. there’s always something to fight, a battle to win.

          I see where you’re coming from though. 🙂 yes.

          • now i do agree that violence & selfishness is more rampant among hunters than witches, specifically the bennett witches. the bennett witches have a sense of stability because they live in mf. each generation passes down the mantle of responsibility as a protector. meanwhile, hunters experience a tragic event that forces them to basically live as nomad.

            as a result, a lot of what motivates hunters comes from a place of anger, hurt & traumatization. so they tend to act out or develop unhealthy habits. a lof of what motivates the bennett witches comes from a sense of duty & honor. so they tend to be more responsible because they’re friends with the people they protect.

            i maintain that dean/bonnie ultimately feel a duty to kill the monster & protect the people. but you made some really good points (as usual :D).

  4. The meta on fandoms infleunce on showrunning gives me life. I do feel like TVD has catered to fandom so much I don’t think I’ve ever seen it before. That’s why I think season 1 was the best season because they told the story they wanted to tell. If you tell a great story people will like it regardless, because no one could debate a story is great even if the ship the person is routing for don’t end up together. But when you do things just make fans happy there’s no story things are just happening which is season 3. The ghost storyline was fan pandering no one can tell me different. I feel like whole episodes this season were for fan service which isn’t good. I feel like the reason Bonnie doesn’t get good s/l is because they know she isn’t as popular so they can get away with it without to much backlash.

    • Yeah, I feel like when they read these scripts (not necessarily when they write them, unless JP is the one writing) they think about how fans will responde and they might even change some things because of that. Ugh.

    • I agree with your post, Tavi. Esp. with how entire episodes feel like fan service.

      Btw, I thought of that meta when I listened to this panel about TV writing over at Nerdist.com. Julie Plec was on this panel and talked about TVD. (If you want to check it out, the link is: http://www.nerdist.com/2012/03/nerdist-writers-panel-28-vince-gilligan-julie-plec-josh-friedman-jeff-greenstein/ ) At 26 min. in, she talks about fan reaction on Twitter.
      And at 47 min., she talks about writing/breaking story for TVD. I thought that was very interesting.

      Just thought to bring this up, in case anybody is interested in listening.

      • I’m glad she says they try not to let the fans influence them, but I have to say that if it’s affected her so much where she’s cried (which is horrible), then I do think it influences her (a lot) when she’s writing or fixing the other writers’ episodes. I widened my eyes when she said she’d find herself going down a path and then going, “No no no no no! Does anyone really believe that?” What could that possibly be? Lol. Me being me, I of course think it has something to do with Delena, Caroline, Staroline, and lastly Stelena because these are the loudest fanbases.

        I like what the writer of Breaking Bad had to say about dealing with fan reaction.

        She talks about not wanting to have a formula in terms of how the acts go, but I think she’s going to have to let that go pretty soon. This show cannot sustain a season long villain every.single.season. They tried it this season and it’s already not working.

        I thought it was interesting, in a bad way, when she said they literally sit and wonder how to bring the characters together. It reminded me of what I’ve said and what other people have said, which is that the personally relationships on this show really are lacking and it takes this stuff outside of themselves (like the dances or a planned slumber party) to get them to interact and talk, instead of them talking about their day-to-day lives. I mean I’m still waiting for Caroline and her friends to have a pow wow about Klaus’ feelings for her. This is the type of stuff that can make it so that you don’t need an OTT event to bring the characters together.

        So they don’t plan the seasons in advance. Like not even a little bit. All they know is where they want the characters to be by the end of the series. They don’t even have markers they want the characters to hit each season. That’s….awesome. No wonder the actors can never give us anything to look forward to when it comes to their characters. Nothing that spans more than the next episode to air, at least.

        • I thought it was interesting, in a bad way, when she said they literally sit and wonder how to bring the characters together. It reminded me of what I’ve said and what other people have said, which is that the personally relationships on this show really are lacking and it takes this stuff outside of themselves (like the dances or a planned slumber party) to get them to interact and talk, instead of them talking about their day-to-day lives.

          That’s bad. That’s really bad. You shouldn’t have to think of reasons to bring your characters together unless there was a huge relationship destroying fall-out that led the characters to go their separate ways for more than one or two episodes. And that doesn’t happen on most television because most television works within a framework where, set up permitting, people don’t just get to not talk to each other until a party brings them together. Hell a party, provides an even easier way to avoid talking to someone because there are so many other people to talk to. I mean, this is disappointing because there is absolutely no reason they need to figure out ways to get these characters to interact when they have known each other their whole lives. Remember in s1, when Stefan was hanging off to the side and Elena/Caroline/Tyler/Bonnie/Matt were chilling and remained chilling with their candles even when Elena broke away from the group? Like this is making me angry because all they need to do is have these characters talk to each other. Even with the Salvatores no convoluted reasons are needed. If they had made Rebekah more capable in her villainy then her going after Matt wouldn’t need to come out of the blue. If they gave Matt anything outside of well-adjusted (even though he shouldn’t be) normalcy then him agreeing to hang out with her would make sense.

          But since So they don’t plan the seasons in advance. Like not even a little bit. All they know is where they want the characters to be by the end of the series. They don’t even have markers they want the characters to hit each season. this seems to be the case then they’re left up in the air. They’re forcing these characters to fit a mold of who they will be when the show ends, but not how they become that person and that is dumb. Season markers for characters make getting to the end product possible. If Elena experiences this, this, and this and reacts like this, this, and that, she’ll be this person by the end of s2 and her reactions will inform the actions and reactions of the other characters and vica-versa and here’s where there relationships will be at the end of s2 and s3 and s4 and here’s where the characters will be at the end of those seasons and there will be a unifying line of interaction and reaction and development and markers for this development. Which there are some markers, but those are mostly accidental, from what I can tell.

          • You shouldn’t have to think of reasons to bring your characters together unless there was a huge relationship destroying fall-out that led the characters to go their separate ways for more than one or two episodes.

            Yep. She said they sit and wonder how to bring the characters together and so they go “how about the Miss Mystic Falls pageant?” Her words, not mine. But it does explain even the little things, such as the fact that the last time we saw any of the girls actually getting ready together for any of these parties was when Bonnie and Elena prepared for the 50s dance with Bonnie painting her nails (which gave them an opportunity to talk about Elena’s life, which is currently missing for Caroline) and then both of them doing their hair later. Or how about Bonnie and Caroline talking about the Halloween costumes which gave Caroline a chance to talk about her thing with Damon, her feelings on Elena’s likability, and we got to see Bonnie and Caroline just be friends when Bonnie told her not to be bitter lest she get wrinkles. And lastly, this is where Caroline gave her the talisman, which advanced the plot. Since then, they just how up to these parties and the thing is these parties aren’t even use to make the friendships or relationships grow, or throw a wrench in them. I mean I guess we had Caroline/Elena in 3.14 talking about the ball and Elena’s triangle.

            I keep thinking about Bonnie/Jeremy. I mean thank goodness their interactions at the party made sense, but with what Julie said it’s obvious they were looking for a way to start their interactions and figured the party would be the perfect place to bring them together. Ugh.

            They’re forcing these characters to fit a mold of who they will be when the show ends, but not how they become that person and that is dumb.

            Yep. Darkening Elena, making her realize she has to make not so clean choices, is a marker. But they kind of seem to be backing away from that now that Stefan is coming back (and it seemed to be something they thought up after the first half). But it’s the type of thing I feel you should sit down at the beginning of the season (or maybe take some notes of where each character was at the end of the previous season) and say, “Okay, this season Elena MUST go through this,” or “This season there MUST be a rift between Bonnie and the Salvatores,” or “Well last season Bonnie was getting in very deep with the Salvatores and we (purposely or not) wrote them taking advantage of her, so this season something MUST happen to wake her up to that since it can’t happen out of the blue.” Just stuff like that. Have the goal, and then how you get to it can be thought out over the course of the season. And of course things and plans change, but she said, “We know where we want our heroes to be by the end, but how they get there, the journey? *Laughs.*” It’s no wonder they make promises at places like Comic-Con (Forwood as Romeo & Juliet, anyone?) and then when the season is airing, everyone’s wondering where the promises went.

  5. I voted for Klaus. I mean, his sob story of his father killing his favourite horse and his hidden artistic side, how can you beat that, lol. But I’m afraid that Stefan is just getting warmed up.

    Spoilers

    I don’t understand it either why JP is talking about Meredith might become a series regular when the big cliffhanger is making it look like she’s the killer. I don’t want her to become a regular either. This show has already enough problems with handling its big cast. The only positive thing I can say about this is that it would mean that the show would exchange a male regular for a female one for the first time (since I doubt that they would add an 11th regular to the show) – and I guess this would probably mean exchanging Meredith for Klaus. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad trade. But, having said that, this means that the show runners could have simply kept Jenna on the show. /bitter

    Episode

    I don’t understand why Mayor Lockwood was there either. Maybe to show that all the influential people in MF were at the ball because the Originals are very important.

    I thought that Mayor Lockwood had dragged Stefan to the dance floor, not to the ball.

    It’s sad that we never got any scenes of Finn or Kol adapting to the 21th century.

    Esther leeching off of the Bennett line for a thousand years and the show failing to address how utterly problematic that is. No words.

    Your and Cana’s idea about Bonnie and Elena working together and Elena using her body to kill Klaus is so beautiful. Elena taking back her agency. Bonnie and Elena being equals. It would’ve been great.

    Matt/Rebekah – This reminds of a spoiler at the beginning of S3. First, there was JP saying that Matt needs to get some love in S3. And then there was ZR talking about a possible hook-up with a female Original way before Rebekah was even introduced. So I guess this has been something the writers have been intending to do for a long time. Probably they’ve been meaning to do even more with the two of them and then dropped it (like the rivalry between Rebekah and Caroline) or maybe this is a SL that was pushed back and will now be playing out over the rest of the season. They certainly didn’t waste any time on building up to this. – Oh, that makes me wonder: Are there any Matt/Rebekah shippers? I know that there’ve been Damon/Rebekah shippers since the marshmallow scene in Smells Like Teen Spirit. But I haven’t seen any Matt/Rebekah shippers.

    Rebekah kowtowing to Elijah – I noticed that too and didn’t like it.

    Yes, Kol sounded as if he was reading lines.

    Didn’t Damon also tell Elena that he loves her on his deathbed in 2×22?

    I think it’s ridiculous that Damon was able to throw an Original off a balcony and snap his neck. Kol should have been stronger than him. But OK. Fine, show.

    90 % of Stefan’s lines were complete BS.

    I liked Elena’s dress best too. But I also agree with Cana that she didn’t carry her dress, the dress carried her.

    Elena was my favourite in this episode.

    Yes, there will definitely be an excuse coming from her. And the longer they draw it out, the bigger it will be, I’m afraid. Complete with emo pop music.

    Elijah was forgettable in this episode, sorry to say.

    And they had Caroline wear Klaus’ bracelet to the ball just so that she could dramatically throw it at his feet, rme.

    Best sex scenes/make outs:
    – Jeremy/Vicki kissing against the bus
    – Stefan/Katherine and Damon/Katherine in the flashbacks
    – Katherine/Damon in ‘The Return’
    – Bonnie/Jeremy’s first kiss

    Best musical cues:
    I really liked Bat for Lashes’ “Sleep Alone” playing when Vicki is looking for Jeremy during the Halloween party – that song combined with the visuals was good

    Worst musical cues:
    – Elena/Damon dance in Miss Mystic Falls – “Make my heart a better place”, no
    – The emo pop song playing during the waltz in this ep, it didn’t fit
    – In ‘Rose’, when Damon compels Elena, he says: “I don’t deserve you but my brother does.” Right after he said that, the music goes ‘I was wrooong! I was wrooong!’ My goodness.
    – And I definitely agree with your choice, Alta. I didn’t like that musical cue either (although I do like that song).

    • Klaus definitely has my vote for biggest woobie (even though I didn’t vote). Just for how fast and how badly he was woobified. And there might be more coming, lol.

      That’s weird then, because Stefan says it as soon as he starts talking to Elena.

      It’s a shame they didn’t bring up the leeching because I was envisioning Bonnie being super pissed while Abby, while mad, was the calmer of the two, and Bonnie ask her if she’s ever channeled a witch and Abby would say “of course,” and Bon would amend to ask if she’s ever done it without permission, and Abby would say no. And they’d get into this discussion on why that just isn’t done and Bonnie need look no further than how offended she is at Esther doing it to understand why. We could’ve gotten Bonnie talking about her headspace when she channeled Luka and brought him to the brink of death. But no.

      The Bonnie/Elena thing can kind of still happen if they build it into them rebuilding or redefining their friendship. *Sigh.*

      Oh yeah, I remember all of that. And you’re right they didn’t bother to really build this. And I haven’t seen Matt/Rebekah shippers. I’ve seen Jeremy/Rebekah shippers though.

      Rebekah kowtowing to Elijah – I noticed that too and didn’t like it.

      Worse, after she tables her desire to kill Elena, Elijah tells her she can do it in 3.15 but she has to wait for his word. *Side-eye.*

      Did he? Now that you mention it, it sounds familiar.

      I think it’s ridiculous that Damon was able to throw an Original off a balcony and snap his neck. Kol should have been stronger than him. But OK. Fine, show.

      An episode later, Elena effectively headbutts Rebekah…….

      – Elena/Damon dance in Miss Mystic Falls – “Make my heart a better place”, no

      Lmao.

      • Yeah, that was probably the quickest and most bizarre woobification I’ve ever seen on TV.

        I’m not sure if I remember the scene correctly but didn’t Elena first say sth like “He dances, I didn’t even have to beg” and then Stefan mentions Mayor Lockwood? But, truth be told, I didn’t really hear what he was saying because the music was so loud. I only heard him bring up Mayor Lockwood and assumed that he meant that she dragged him to the dance floor.

        Yes, it could still happen. But I’m afraid that the show has different priorities. /bitter

        Jeremy/Rebekah shippers? Huh. That’s a pairing I’ve never given any thought.

        Worse, after she tables her desire to kill Elena, Elijah tells her she can do it in 3.15 but she has to wait for his word. *Side-eye.*

        Side-eyeing this with you. The show thwarts Rebekah at every turn.

        I think he said that he loves her and then she said: “I know.”

        That headbutt… I don’t even know. I guess something like this was bound to happen as a pay-off for Elena’s training with Alaric. What means being an Original to this show anyway?

        About that dance in Miss Mystic Falls… At the very beginning of the series, I was actually quite partial to Damon/Elena. (Yeah, my dirty, dirty TVD past. Please don’t side-eye me too hard, lol.) Anyway, I remember watching that dance scene and, upon hearing the line “Make my heart a better place”, going: “No. Eff this.” And, just like that, I was done with that ship. So, I guess for me this was the worst musical cue in TVD history, as it single-handedly turned me off a ship. Well, perhaps not single-handedly because I didn’t like the actual dance sequence – and some other things – either but it def made me go: “Be more anvilicious, show, I dare you. Bye, bye D/E.” — Wow, that was such a long time ago…

        • No, he mentioned her when all three of them met up and Damon was like, “Guess we all had the same idea,” or whatever he said. Which is ridiculous because that makes it seem like Stefan wouldn’t have shown up were it not for Carol. ‘Cause you know, he respects Elena’s agency so if she says she’s not going, then he believes her. Rme.

          Yeah, I’m positive it’s not going to happen. *Sigh.*

          Having the title of “Original?” Idk.

          Lol. I have a shameful past with Bamon, so you won’t see any judgment for me about past shipping preferences.

  6. LOL, when you said you’re “open” to seeing more of Alaric. I’m not. He and Matt should hook up and run away. Far, far away to Offscreenville where I don’t have to deal with them.

    Also, that waltz was the most stilted and ugly waltz I’ve seen ever. This show doesn’t just ruin my life, it ruins dances too? Forever bitter that Kat couldn’t be there to show them all how it’s done.

    Okay, I’ll be back later to comment when I’ve finished listening.

    • I’m kinda happy Kat/Bonnie wasn’t there because it really was a mess. There would have to have been a scene where Bonnie and Caroline laugh at what Klaus just did. But then they’d have to explain why they put Kat/Bonnie in a servants uniform and then it would have just been awkward. smh

      • lmao!! that’s so true, tho. had bonnie been there, she’d essentially have to condone that hot mess romance. or come off like a cockblock & a buzzkill. would’ve loved somebody trying to talk some since into caroline that night. hopefully klaroline is truly dead /crosses fingers/.

          • i know there are rl problems out there that need my support. but this is some bs that i really need to resist. which is he, writers? badass or emo? because if he’s emo & all he needs is a nice (white) girl to make him feel better, what’s the point of trying to defeat him? ugh!! not going to focus on the negative, tho.

            i’m turning a new leaf & focusing on the positive. there’s still a real murder mystery going on. i’m still #teamstefan & #teamstelena. bonnie’s still going strong. & even tho my bb matt doesn’t have health insurance, he won’t be dying anytime soon (as far as i know). my new tvd mantra: just keep swimming, just keep swimming.

Flail or vent

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s