How long did Caroline’s storyline drag in this episode?
How wonderful is it that they tried to give Elena an uncertainty to match Caroline’s? Caroline’s story couldn’t stand on its own?
When will Alaric finally DIE?!
I can’t talk about Esther conveniently knocking Bonnie and Abby out. I could have gotten my witch fight, but they made other decisions and now I won’t even find out how they got knocked out.
Just Another Judicious Podcast 
How wonderful is it that they tried to give Elena an uncertainty to match Caroline’s? Caroline’s story couldn’t stand on its own?
uh … All I could hear is Elena spouting the same bit of comfort. “He died with vampire blood in his system” (don’t be sad bitch, it’s all about me and my tears. MY LIFE!)
I can’t talk about anything else because lol uh shit … smh
Lol, Elena couldn’t go comfort Caroline because she was soooo distraught! It wasn’t like Ric died twice already or anything. She can’t lose anymore family. I love that they brought this about just when we needed Elena to extra freak out about Alaric’s death. Remember in 3.10 when she was like, “Lol, when did you come back from the dead, Ric?” Yeah, where was that here?
I swear the writers have given up because JP probably comes in after their work with a red pen to “fix” it.
“This will be great guys. I know we did it last season 5 times over but this time with this twist and it will be great!”
Haha…Elena already comforted Caroline earlier. Only Caroline forgot to tell Elena that she was the bestest friend ever, so that’s enough of that. Did anyone else think Caroline’s dad was biting & possibly killing Caroline’s mom inside the house, while C & E were talking outside? Show has conditioned me to expect “shocks” and violence in every scene. 😛 Anyway I thought it was pretty stupid that they left Bill alone in there with a human to tempt him. But of course I should’ve had faith in good ol’ Bill to control his transitioning-vampire-bloodlust. I hate Bill. I will not miss the sanctimonious torturer one bit.
I wanted Caroline to get angry at her dad before, and now we’re told, instead of shown, that she hated him for what he did to her (but not anymore). Okay. I’ll take it, I guess. (Rather be shown though.) Her dad telling her he was proud of her… where did that come from and how did they get there? That scene was not *earned*. I felt nothing. And I’m so tired of seeing Caroline cry and be a victim. Just ’cause the actress *can* cry… c’mon writers, don’t you know we’re getting as desensitized to that as to the deaths? Numb through sheer repetition.
They really do love repeating everything 5 times over, Razycrandomgirl!
Anyway I thought it was pretty stupid that they left Bill alone in there with a human to tempt him.
Wasn’t that stupid? Bill, a transitioning vampire, can keep from biting someone. Just like Tyler could keep from killing Bill. Must be something about Bill’s aura.
When Caroline said she hated her dad, I was like, “When?” It’s too late, show. Instead of making Caroline do something that made sense they chose to have her say something that made sense. And people are eating it up. I also thought it was stupid when she was like, “How can you hate what I am?” or whatever she said. He can hate vampires, Caroline, because they’re dangerous and typically don’t care about humans. Klaus did kill your boyfriend, right? She should’ve just asked why Bill hates her.
I don’t know how he went from seeing her as a murderer to being proud of her.
Thank you jajp92! Some people are satisfied that the writers threw us a bone by giving Caroline that dialogue? Sheesh. Yes it’s okay to be anti-vampire and I hate how the show wants to make vampirism symbolize something else… like it’s a different but totally valid lifestyle. 😛 It’s not a metaphor for being gay or some other oppressed group or outsider. Vampires are (usually) murderers! And they mind-rape people. I hate them too (I’ll make an exception for a vamp who has never ever killed, lives on animal blood, and refrains from using their compelling powers. If any such vampire exists.)
I guess this is why they had to soften Bonnie’s anti-vampire position too, since she was getting so much viewer-hate. I want her to go back to setting vamps on fire. 😉 Especially Stefan if he bosses her around again.
It’s not a metaphor for being gay or some other oppressed group or outsider.
Why do these shows (and I’m including True Blood) use metaphors for minority oppression, whether that’s racial or sexual, instead of just including those minorities on their show and treating them right? So TB has a bunch of White (and straight) vampires dealing with oppression and misconception, and TVD chooses to do a metaphor for homophobia by using a straight character.
I saw a gif on tumblr of that time Damon said to Bonnie, “After this, me and you are cool right?” and she said no with attitude and all. Then I thought about this episode and felt so freaking sad. *Sigh.*
Remember when Bryan Fuller tried to make the dad on Dead Like Me, gay, and Showtime changed it? *Showtime*. Then whichever major network that ran Heroes made him change his plans for a would-be gay character again.
Kevin Williamson wanted to have a gay romance on his show, Wasteland, but those filmed eps never aired before the show was cancelled. Maybe KW has given up trying.
Has convinced himself it’s good enough to have metaphors. If you wanna stay on the air. And of course homophobes are okay with bringing a gay character, like Bill onto your show ’cause he’s basically a villain who endorses intolerance and aversion therapy. And you never actually see him interacting with his boyfriend. Arrgh, this is depressing. It’s 2012! Why does it feel like we’re living in a more sexist, racist and homophobic world, instead of things getting better? The human race sucks. But I’m not ready to side with the 2012 doomsday prophets, even if we deserve to get wiped out. 😛
It’s okay when the gay and (racial) minority characters aren’t made human or allowed to exist with flaws that the show embraces. That would be too into people’s faces. I exclude women because (White) women characters tend to have more luck than the other two (because there’s so many of them on tv).
I have to rewatch this episode I wasn’t paying attention to a lot of stuff.
I mostly just paid attention when Bonnie was on screen. I loved when Bonnie told Abby they didn’t even talk about her.
Stefan, Stefan,Stefan I really can’t take him. So disrespectful I cheered as he was getting burned. Thank you Klaus first and last time I actually liked you.
When the original siblings started torturing Klaus. me: yes yes kill him, kill him dead now please.
When the originals said we’re all leaving you. me: Yes all of you leave, no take him with you please.
YES to all of this. Right before Klaus stuck Stefan in the fire he said: oh Stefan one more thing … be nicer to Bonnie.
I loved that Bonnie/Abby scene.
I cheered when Klaus was burning him too! I really can’t stand the fact that he’s untouchable.
I also cheered when Klaus’ siblings were stabbing him. Why they didn’t put him down permanently, I’ll never know.
So no one thought what was in the coffins might not just be bad for Klaus but them as well. It’s just like Mikeal even though that went no where.
Is it because the witches were sending Bonnie the dreams and the clues on how to open it?That no one thought hey whatever is in here could hurt Bonnie and her mother .STEFAN.
Let’s hope Esther’s part in the show is resolved as quickly as Mikael’s.
I don’t know why none of them even speculated as to what might be in the coffin. Why does the show make them stupid? Bonnie has been dreaming about these coffins for weeks (or maybe it’s days, who knows), and she never wondered what could possibly be in it? Such a shame. I hope she asks the witches to explain themselves in 3.15, unless her dreams were just a way for the writers to introducer Esther. The show is so sloppy that that just might happen.
Oh my god, I hated this episode! Even more than usual. Where do I begin to rant? First Stefan orders Bonnie & Abby around like they’re his servants and *obligated* to help him or something. I wanted them to tell him off soooo bad.
Then Elena informs Caroline that we all have a right to make our own choices. Sure, Elena. Caroline’s dad can choose to die and she *has* to accept it. Meanwhile, Elena CAN’T LOSE ANYMORE OF HER FAMILY, you guys! 😛 We won’t get into her willingness to remove Jeremy’s free will and ability to make his own CHOICES. Arrghhh. Can she be any more hypocritical? Can the writers be so clueless that they don’t even realize they’re writing her this way?
Alaric’s deaths have lost all impact. Death in general, has no impact because death (and resurrection) is so overused on this show. So much for the impact of Klaus killing his own mother. Turns out…she’s alive! How? I thought she was the only one in her family who *wasn’t* turned into a vampire. Am I remembering that flashback ep wrong? Could be. All of the backstory they create about the Originals or the Petrova doppelganger or whatever, is so convoluted and made-up-as-they go, I’m not really paying attention anymore. Why should I, when the showrunners don’t?
Anyway, my eyes rolled the hardest when Mama Original showed up and forgave Klaus for killing her. Of course she forgave him. So then why did the witchy spirits send Bonnie dreams about opening that coffin, and how doing so would kill Klaus, once and for all? Now all Klaus’ siblings have no reason to stay angry at him either, if Mom forgives him. Sheesh. Could the writers be any more obvious in their desire to woobiefy Klaus, whitewash his evil actions, and find excuses to keep him on the show longer? Klaus killed Jenna (among others)! I want him DEAD. Not daggered and revive-able. Dead-dead. Dusted. Kaput. Finis. Gone from the show. No GhostKlaus either! Can we at least keep his family pissed at him for more than one episode please?! What is with this forgiveness crap. I will never forgive.
But you know what? I bet Klaus chose that blonde girl to drain and kill in this ep because she reminds him of Caroline and it’s totally a sign that he’s got a crush on Caroline and omg won’t Klaus & Caroline be so cute together? Teehee!
Then Elena informs Caroline that we all have a right to make our own choices. Sure, Elena. Caroline’s dad can choose to die and she *has* to accept it. Meanwhile, Elena CAN’T LOSE ANYMORE OF HER FAMILY, you guys! We won’t get into her willingness to remove Jeremy’s free will and ability to make his own CHOICES. Arrghhh. Can she be any more hypocritical? Can the writers be so clueless that they don’t even realize they’re writing her this way?
While I can surmise that she learned from having Bonnie call her out over the Jeremy fiasco, I wish she had brought it up to remind everybody (because this show loves reminding people). But I agree with you that she was trying to get Caroline to accept Bill’s death while angsting over losing Alaric even though he has a ring that will bring him back to life. Like wtf?
So much for the impact of Klaus killing his own mother.
I know, right?! That was the last remaining thing that portrayed Klaus as ruthless, but now it turns out he couldn’t even succeed at it. But he did kill her, right? She just somehow magically survived (unlike the Black witches)? Death is also losing impact on this show, not only because Alaric keeps dying and coming back, but they haven’t killed the one person they’re supposed to kill.
What are the chances that Esther needs to be sacrificed in order for Klaus to be killed? Too low for my liking because I would love that. Think about it, someone has died during every big moment of Klaus’, save his birth. Someone died so he could become a vampire, someone died so he could become a werewolf (he killed Esther to become a werewolf, right?), people died so he could become a Hybrid, so someone should be sacrificed in order to permanently kill him. And I think the dead witches would be ruthless enough to have it be Esther.
By the way, didn’t Esther hate Klaus? Isn’t that what Rebekah said in 3.08? Isn’t that why she bound his werewolf side?
Can we at least keep his family pissed at him for more than one episode please?!
More than one episode, don’t you mean more than one scene? Kol and Finn should still be pissed at Klaus because he had them in suspended animation for 900 years (I don’t remember how long the other one was down for).
“but now it turns out he couldn’t even succeed at it. But he did kill her, right? She just somehow magically survived (unlike the Black witches)?”
Haha…ouch. 😛 Klaus *is* a pretty ineffectual villain. But that’s why we feel for him, right? So sorry for poor unloved, lonely, thwarted-at-every-turn, Klaus! I know…let’s give him a love interest.
(I bet his mom will be killed (again), in an attempt to make us feel sorrier for him… oh no, just as she forgave him and things were going so well… he’s lost her!)
“More than one episode, don’t you mean more than one scene?”
Indeed. 🙂 I hope you’re right that his brothers stay mad, but they’ll probably follow mom’s lead anyway. And Rebekah got over her (first) daggering pretty quickly.
If Esther apologizes to Elena for trying to kill her, then I’ll know for certain she’s going to die very soon. People tend to apologize to Elena right before they die (Rose, Jules, Jenna, John, Isobel).
Why can’t they let Alaric simply stay dead?
The dinner party was so pointless. And … just … is this all we will ever get about the doppelgängers? This half-assed backstory that is more about ~brothers fighting of the same girl than about clearing up the show’s mythology or, you know, about Elena and what it means for her. But why am I surprised, it’s not like we ever found out much about hybrids or rippers. One question, though. So Tatia’s blood was used to turn the Original family into vampires. Wasn’t it established by the show that the blood of the original Petrova was used in the curse to bind Klaus’ werewolf side? I recall Rose saying something like that in 2×08. Did the show forget about that?
I fear that Esther might turn out to be the Big Bad of the season. I mean, I wouldn’t mind that per se but I’m afraid that it could pave the way for Klaus sticking around in some capacity.
Now we have six Originals running around. Six.
Maybe they’re slowly leading up to letting Alaric stay dead. Or just trying to create suspense with the unexplained ring-taking-longer-to-revive-him thing, but never actually intending on following through to the logical conclusion of Alaric not waking up one of these times. If he dies, let’s have a cheesy reunion of GhostJenna and GhostAlaric. 😛
“I’m afraid that it could pave the way for Klaus sticking around in some capacity.”
You and me both! Although I’m beyond afraid and more like bitterly resigned to it. (If one can be bitter and resigned at the same time). Klaus is here to stay. 😦 Julie Plec must think KlausActor is dreamy. MattActor is jealous.
Maybe they’re slowly leading up to letting Alaric stay dead.
I don’t think so, unfortunately. JP was asked in a recent interview why Alaric was still around and she said that the Alaric actor is so awesome and worth keeping on the show, even if not much is going on with Alaric. This means we are stuck with him forever.
No, no, no. The thought of being stuck with Klaus is too distressing.
Why can’t be the key to killing Klaus be connected to his having possessed Alaric in Season 2? Like, in order to kill Klaus Alaric has to die too? This way we could get rid of the both of them. I know this will never happen, but one can still dream…
Uh-oh, Julie Plec has a crush on AlaricActor too! MattActor’s *very* jealous. See, she knows all about the love triangles. Write what you know, and all that. 😉
I like your idea, but Elena would definitely cry “I can’t lose any more of my family!” again and choose to donate her blood to keep Klaus happy, rather than sacrifice Alaric.
Now I’m imagining GhostJenna screaming “Avenge meeeeee!” like that guy in the movie, Red Dawn… and “I was your *actual* family, dumbass, not Alaric!”… but Elena and Alaric aren’t thinking of her AT ALL, so they can’t see or hear her, according to Jeremy Gilbert’s Guide To Ghost-Girlfriends. (He should totally publish that book.)
but Elena and Alaric aren’t thinking of her AT ALL, so they can’t see or hear her, according to Jeremy Gilbert’s Guide To Ghost-Girlfriends. (He should totally publish that book.)
Lmao!
JP was asked in a recent interview why Alaric was still around and she said that the Alaric actor is so awesome and worth keeping on the show, even if not much is going on with Alaric.
This is such bad fucking writing, I can’t! Actors over storylines. That’s one of the reasons this show sucks. Sorry for cursing.
Yeah! Not to mention, there’s a double-standard afoot. JennaActress was awesome, but not worth keeping? ‘Cause Julie Plec’s not crushing on her, I guess.
Jasmine Guy wasn’t awesome and worth keeping on the show either? Bah.
(Paul Wesley should marry them all.)
I wonder if Alaric would be headed for death if KW was still on the show. Based on an interview, killing characters seemed to be his thing.
This interview had me cursing too. If you’re interested in reading it, here’s a link to it: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/interviews/2011/11/10/interview-the-vampire-diaries-executive-producer-julie-plec-677300/20111110_vampirediaries/ (The 3 final questions are the ones about Alaric. It is very maddening. But it’s also kind of hilarious how she chooses to describe the Alaric actor.)
Songspin, her answer also made me think of Jenna and how unfair it is towards the actress who played her. I can’t even. (And lol at your PW comment.)
I can’t stand it. I think the fact that Matt Davis is an “adult” and is thus her peer is why she keeps trying to make his character happen while I don’t see the same effort (as in her clearly stating that there are problems with how she writes the character).
Julie Plec must think KlausActor is dreamy. MattActor is jealous.
LOL!
P.S. “Did the show forget about that?” …this is basically my new mantra. 😉
And I loooooove the brothers-fighting-over-the-same-girl story. And how her fate is always decided by the Men-folk. At the dinner table. Where girls can serve (and be) food, but otherwise, keep quiet. Awesome!
With the whole Klaus-wants-Elena-to-be-his-ever-breeding-blood-bank … plan… I kinda want Elena to turn into a vampire and make him cry. 😛 Maybe that’s what the show’s doing, maneuvering us all into accepting her as a vampire… as a good thing?
And how her fate is always decided by the Men-folk. At the dinner table.
It is so horrible.
Maybe that’s what the show’s doing, maneuvering us all into accepting her as a vampire… as a good thing?
If that’s what they are trying to do, they are doing a good job with it. But then again, the writers will never turn her into a vampire. She has to stay human so that the Salvatores can protect her or whatever.
Oh it’s okay…even if Elena’s a vampire, she’ll still need the Salvatores. Becoming a vampire didn’t *really* make Caroline stronger. She still cries a lot and needs her daddy. And don’t forget Rose! She needed protection… from Elijah… from the sun (remember heroic Damon carrying her to safety? *swoon* :P) and ultimately had to be protected from the truth of her death…with Damon’s Dream Date in a field of daisies (maybe there were no daisies…I just like alliteration. ;)) So I’m sure Elena would still need protection… from Klaus’ wrath at defying him or something.
At this point I’d want Elena to vamp it up, because logically it’s better than letting Klaus use and manipulate you (and future offspring). I’d be making it impossible to have kids, if I were her, just to spite him. End the doppelganger madness once and for all… and spare future generations of brother-feuds. 😛 In theory she’d be better able to protect herself and her loved ones, with vampire-fighting-strength. Whether the writers would let her be so proactive… doubtful.
Besides, when Elena’s a vampire, she can be in a love triangle with the Salvatores for all eternity! It’ll never end! Yay! (They’d dump her if she stayed human and got wrinkly.)
P.S. Of course I’ll be pissed that she wasn’t willing to become a vampire in time to prevent Jenna’s murder. Grrrr. On the up side, UncleDaddyJohn’s sacrifice to keep her human, will be all for naught! Bwahaha!
(I just realized that Caroline’s Vampire-Intolerant Dad is kind of a retread of Elena’s Vampire-Intolerant Dad. More repetitive ideas from the writers. And I hated both of ’em. Not that I think people should tolerate vampires exactly. :P)
I just realized that Caroline’s Vampire-Intolerant Dad is kind of a retread of Elena’s Vampire-Intolerant Dad. More repetitive ideas from the writers. And I hated both of ‘em.
I hate Bill with a passion unparalleled for any other character. John, I actually kind of loved because he was one of the first people besides Sheila to have a justified dislike of vampires and to be reasonably effective about it. And we had a little more time with him and Anders did his best with the material, in such a way that I genuinely did feel for his perspective and his death.
But Bill. Good grief. The show’s entire approach with him was wrong and also offensive. If they hadn’t made all these awful and disgusting parallels between sexuality and vampirism, and then had Bill, the show’s only openly gay character be the actual worst human that’s been on this show – it might have been tolerable. Oh, and then somehow, through special osmosis, expected us to ~feel~ for him after he literally appeared in four episodes, two of which he spent torturing his only child. I can’t.
Considering how merciless John was (like when Anna was begging him for her life …and boy do I hate that the writers made her die that way instead of go down fighting!) – I couldn’t help hating John (even though I’d be anti-vampire too, if they actually existed) 😛 If Elena had become a vampire, I have to assume her dad would’ve treated her pretty much the same way Bill treated Caroline. Maybe worse.
But I agree with you – I hate Bill even more, because I hate that the writers made their only gay character, a bigot and torturer.
If only the show had a variety of gay characters with a variety of perspectives and beliefs… I still don’t understand how this could happen when one of the showrunner’s is gay. And apparently he gave interviews promising representation to the gay community, since The Vampire Diaries began…and then this is what they get?!
I don’t think John would have treated Elena the same way Bill treated Caroline. I think he just would have been incredibly disappointed. I think he would have gone after whoever turned her rather than harm her. I say that because Isobel was a vampire, yet he still spoke to her. I know Isobel wasn’t his daughter, but it shows a capacity to be able to interact with vamps even when he hates the concept of them.
By the time Anna died, I already hated John because he killed my beautiful Pearl! I couldn’t stand that his human butt took her out, but I guess this goes with the writers always making the powerful poc toothless in the face of less qualified (White) characters.
That’s a good point about Isobel… you’re probably right that John would’ve treated Elena better. And I can’t believe I forgot about Pearl! That *was* the first time I really hated John, but I’ve been angry about so many supposedly powerful women dying senseless (and improbable) deaths on this show… I guess it’s hard to keep track of them all.
What is *with* this show massacring entire families? Pearl & Anna. The Martins. But we’re only supposed to feel sorry for Elena’s losses. The Original Family *better* get killed too! And Abby had better survive.
I know what you mean. I’m finding that the many ways this show bucks continuity slips my mind unless someone mentions it. It’s just so convoluted. Like the fact that Klaus was carrying four coffins and yet Rebekah never asked who or what was in the coffin?
But Bill. Good grief. The show’s entire approach with him was wrong and also offensive.
Price Peterson actually called them out on the Bill madness. It is such a rare thing for a “reviewer” of this show to do that I wrote a comment there in support.
Nice to “see” you Susan! I was afraid you’d quit this show and stopped commenting (not that I’d blame you). You’re right, it’s rare. Things have got to be bad if the guy who wants to keep getting exclusive interviews with the cast and crew…risks pissing them off like that. I used to like Price’s reviews more, before he started bashing Bonnie (without really criticizing the *writing* for Bonnie) and gushing too much about the show in general.
Same reason I stopped reading his reviews. I only see the caps posted on tumblr.
Hi songspin. I’ve just been lurking a lot and listening to the podcasts. I am basically only watching to lurk and listen. I’ve been enjoying the discussion here. I hope more people comment. I really don’t have much more to say about the show. Terrible show is terrible. What is Matt’s motivations for showing up all the time now? How/when did he change his mind about getting involved? If the *only* reason Tyler is sired to Klaus is a deep sense of (magical) gratitude, why isn’t he sired to Elena too? Her blood also freed him from transforming. The Tyler/Bill stuff was beyond ridiculous and I hope that Bill turns out to be wrong. How is it that Abby got her powers back in 1 hr after not having them for such a long time? At this point, idk why/how anything on the show is happening. And, I guess, I don’t really care? Last season, this show was The Damon diaries. This season, it is The Originals diaries. God knows what it will be next season. Kind of hard to maintain interest when it is a new show every season.
I agree that Price is generally terrible. I LOVE his hypocrisy. I love how he is losing his shit about Bill but continues to make fun of Bonnie fans on twitter.
I guess it counts for something that he’s still a little reluctant. Really, last episode was the only time he was there when something bad happened. In 3.11 he was just celebrating Caroline’s birthday and then things went off. I still don’t get his apparent willingness to be near Rebekah. And if he does that after shaming Tyler for being sired? Then wow.
Geez, I hope so much that Abby doesn’t suddenly have her powers back. Fifteen years, and that’s it?
“I am basically only watching to lurk and listen. I’ve been enjoying the discussion here.”
Ditto! My only fun in watching the show is coming here to rant afterwards and enjoy all your comments. 😉 So glad this site exists. I love knowing there are critical TV viewers who discuss the bad writing. Reading “official” reviews is pretty much a waste of time. I get depressed again, thinking how the paid critics fail at their jobs and just turn into PR shills.
Oh, Price. How tragic when a member of one oppressed/minority group lacks sympathy for another! And I know that people who’ve experienced intolerance and persecution, *can* turn around and treat others the same way instead of having empathy… (On a better-written show, the character of Bill might actually be a deliberate commentary on that sort of sad irony and hypocrisy! But I’m not giving TVD credit for that.)
On a better-written show, the character of Bill might actually be a deliberate commentary on that sort of sad irony and hypocrisy!
If only. Annoyingly enough, I think Damon’s passing remark about Bill torturing Caroling being ironic was supposed to count as commentary. Rme.
Forgot to add… Susan asked “What is Matt’s motivations for showing up all the time now?”
I’m getting the feeling they’re trying to revive the Matt/Caroline/Tyler triangle. Yay. He treated her so well. But now he’s there for her on her birthday and hugging her when Bill’s dying (and yet, still paying more attention to Elena :P) so …yeah.
Unfortunately, Matt is probably safe and will never die due to Klaus’ plans for him and Elena to breed & bleed for his hybrids. Ew.
And I loooooove the brothers-fighting-over-the-same-girl story. And how her fate is always decided by the Men-folk. At the dinner table. Where girls can serve (and be) food, but otherwise, keep quiet. Awesome!
Girl Power! Julie Plec is all about that, according to KG.
And … just … is this all we will ever get about the doppelgängers?
Yes. I’m laughing at myself for thinking they’d start clearing up what a doppelganger is. Apparently it’s two things: 1)something for brothers to fight over and 2)something to be sacrificed.
Wasn’t it established by the show that the blood of the original Petrova was used in the curse to bind Klaus’ werewolf side? I recall Rose saying something like that in 2×08. Did the show forget about that?
Yep, that’s exactly what she was used for, but the Originals need history and the only way they can get it is if the writers keep retconning continuity. And it was Katherine who said it, not Rose (and it’s something she most likely learned from Klaus himself, rme).
The only way I’d accept Esther as Big Bad is if Bonnie rose up as Big Boss and everyone else had to fall back. But I’m sure the Salvatores, Elena, and Caroline will miraculously learn they have magic in their bloodline, and they’ll deal with it while Stefan bosses Bonnie around.
That’s six people to kill. Chop chop, JP. Kill all of them just like you did the Martins. I mean I like Elijah, but hell I liked Jonas and was intrigued by Greta, but they still bit it.
“Kill all of them just like you did the Martins.”
Oh, thanks for reminding me of that horrible storyline! I still can’t believe they died for *nothing* and Greta never even found out! And then got killed herself. And nobody seemed to care. What was the point of that? Just killing (more black people) for the “fun” of it?
Too bad Julie Plec seems so in love with The Originals.
I think every season they’ll discover a new coffin with an Original Cousin or Original Ex-Girlfriend (*she* might get killed off) or Original Bastard Son in it. So many exciting possibilities to explore!
Is Mikael supposed to be a parallel to that? Because he also died for nothing. Esther was never dead.
Someone wondered why the heck Rebekah never asked what was in the fourth coffin.
Someone mentioned the possibility of us meeting the Original dog. Lmao.
Dead. I almost want to write that fic.
The Adventures of Klaus and the Original Dog! It would be epic.
This is the thing that shows it’s clear that the writers have no intention or desire to write for PoC. And it’s a clear delineation. There was no reason to kill the Martins in an episode and then to have Bonnie be the only one to remark on their deaths. Not even Elijah commented on it (and I’d hoped, from his and Jonas’ interactions that they at least had an ~understanding~ of sorts – I also hoped they were secret lovers but oh well). And then Greta comes on, and because the writers don’t view her as a character, they don’t see her as a person, with feelings, with history, who lives and breathes in the text they created – they don’t even let her mourn, or hear about her family. They don’t allow her to even have that level of dimension, which honestly would’ve required no more than three minutes of screen time to convey.
And it’s happened too often and really only for characters of color. Like even that nerdy vampires creepy girlfriend was allowed to wail and mourn like an idiot onscreen. But, Greta, a character who was by far, BY FAR more compelling, whose choice to follow Klaus needed explanation and expansion, whose entire relationship with him needed that got absolutely nothing.
So I’m not even sure what to do with this show right now. And I’m tired of being told that I’m “reading too much” into it or that I’m “too sensitive”. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of how representation works across literature, film and television would be able to see the serious problem this show has going. Particularly for characters that they USE so often to advance their plot, to explain their universe, to CREATE their universe.
Ugh.
Haha… Then the Original Dog dies, and they devote a whole episode to Klaus mourning. 😛
Sad that we live in a world where critical thinking is discouraged. I’ve also been told I’m “too sensitive” and analyze too much. Hey it’s something we should be proud of. 🙂
If it’s any comfort, Magali, the writers are only making themselves look reeaaally bad. Even if some viewers don’t want to see the racism, surely everyone’s noticing the shallow characterization and truncated or dropped storylines…and coming to the conclusion that the writers are lazy and incompetent… right? I hope.
“But, but, we never got to celebrate his birthday!” *Klaus runs away screaming and crying* *everyone else is disturbed*
Unfortunately, it seems that reviewers and fans alike blame the characters for being “boring” or not “interesting enough”, and sometimes, will implicate the actors themselves – completely disregarding the fact that these actors have very little control over what words are put in their mouths, or the direction of a particular scene etc.
Sigh. Frustrating all around.
About blaming the actors instead of writers & directors… this reminds me of recent discussion I’ve read about The Secret Circle, about how badly some actors are coming off on the show, even though people thought they were good in other shows/movies. Basically, it’s tough to rise above weak material/poor direction. A few exceptional actors can but… usually it’s not the actors’ fault. I feel sorry for them because if you *haven’t* seen their other work, it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that they’re just bad actors.
Who knew Michelle Williams would be winning awards now, based on her work in Dawson’s Creek? Until Kevin Williamson gave her some meaty scenes/a dying-plotline in the very last episode of the series (which she asked for! She must’ve been so bored up til then), I had no idea she was actually a pretty good actress. 😛
Not even Elijah commented on it (and I’d hoped, from his and Jonas’ interactions that they at least had an ~understanding~ of sorts – I also hoped they were secret lovers but oh well). And then Greta comes on, and because the writers don’t view her as a character, they don’t see her as a person, with feelings, with history, who lives and breathes in the text they created – they don’t even let her mourn, or hear about her family. They don’t allow her to even have that level of dimension, which honestly would’ve required no more than three minutes of screen time to convey.
Elijah did comment on it. Elena, who had never interacted with the Martins and was the driving force behind Jonas’ death, delivered the news to Elijah and told him she was sorry, and he looked moved/disturbed. I don’t remember if he said anything. I do know he never got a scene with Bonnie, the only other person who knew the Martins. Oo! Fic idea?
What happened to Greta was rage-inducing. Actually I was just hurt, because they kill her family, then make it so that Jonas was wrong to worry about her. She gives a line about her family wasting their time looking for her, but Elena doesn’t mention that they’re dead. Bonnie never gets a scene with her, nor does she care when Greta’s neck gets snapped. And that’s after she wrote Greta off despite knowing Jonas and Luka were looking for her. And all of it done because they had no desire to explore Greta. I won’t say they got bored with the Martin storyline, because there’s no way they could’ve gotten bored with all those possibilities. I will flat out say that they just did not want to tell it. They flat out did not want to go into that family and give it, and Bonnie more screen time or even the set screen time they allot Bonnie (lbr), so they killed all of them and decided to make Elijah’s family the big deal instead.
And I’m tired of being told that I’m “reading too much” into it or that I’m “too sensitive”.
I’m tired of being told maybe the writers have some grand plan for Bonnie (concerning this Originals stuff). We’re on episode 13. Wake up. Because the best that can happen is something akin the 2.17 where we get a scene that makes everything clear (although….there’s really nothing to clear up this season. Except why she’s bowing to Stefan). I’m not even expecting her to face-off against Klaus, really.
Ah, i completely forgot about that elena/elijah scene. I can’t remember him saying anything. But really, if I was writing it, he and Jonas would’ve been lovers and he would’ve gone to the site of their newly-dug graves to bid farewell. You know, him being and “honorable man” and all.
That’s the thing regardless of whether the writers will say they didn’t “want” to tell the story or there was just “too much story” to tell, they made a conscious decision, as all writers DO to NOT tell it. And it was a poor decision. A lazy decision. And a problematic one. But they don’t and will never have the self-awareness to acknowledge that, particularly because they have these so-called professional reviewers and a fandom racing to climb up and reside in their butts.
Yeah, at this stage, I’ll be retreating into fanfiction re: any aspirations I have for the actual text. Because I know that I am doomed to disappointment when it comes to the witch narrative on this show. At least until the writers wake up, which I doubt they will. I doubt she’ll get to kill Klaus or ANY originals, they’ll give that to someone else. Bonnie doing such would simply be “too much agency” to handle and no doubt the fandom would start bleating about deus ex machinae as they’re so fond of doing when there are witches (the most powerful creatures in the show) doing awesome stuff.
I’ll continue watching from afar, and appreciate the other narratives for what they give me of value; take the little Bonnie moments when we get them, just as I’ve done with every other show I’ve watched where I’ve loved a character the writers don’t care about. Hey, maybe TVD will be like Smallville and Lois, and I’ll get to season 9 and Bonnie’ll finally get the story she deserves…. Lol.
How to be optimistic. I clearly fail.
*an “honorable” man, whoops.
But really, if I was writing it, he and Jonas would’ve been lovers and he would’ve gone to the site of their newly-dug graves to bid farewell. You know, him being and “honorable man” and all.
*Sigh.* Alas, he was making eyes at Elena.
The fact that they’ll never gain that self-awareness because not enough people call out the problematic aspects of their show is so demoralizing. It’s like the people who do see the problem will be screaming at an empty room forever (or until the show gets cancelled).
I’m sure they’ll make one of the Originals lame (he won’t be as lame as Klaus but the text will acknowledge him as lame), and she’ll get to kill that one. While struggling, because I still think she’s conveniently de-powered.
“Alas, he was making eyes at Elena.”
Ha! ElijahActor knows what’s good for him, if he wants to become a regular on this show. 😉 I hear he’s actively campaigning for and shipping Elijah/Elena. Everything revolves around her, after all. And she definitely needs more love interests. Especially murdering vampires who’ve been in love with her look-alike ancestors. More of those please! 😛
Yeah, he’s already put in his vote for Elijah/Elena. But he already has another show, so he won’t be a regular any time soon. I remember when he was openly critical of how the show made Elijah stupid at the end of season 2. I guess he’s learned his lesson, lol.
They really lost a opportunity last night to figure out if it’s a human or supernatural killing people.
If Alaric didn’t wake back up = human
If Alaric does wake back up = supernatural
I would have been rooting for a human.
Ha! Good point.
That’s true!
Yeah! Alaric could’ve gone out like a hero…sort of. Letting himself die so they could solve the murder and prevent more deaths. But noooo…he’d rather traumatize Elena by making her kill him (possibly for good, if the ring fails). Great “parenting” there, Alaric! (How come it’s okay for Elena to do this but she was so horrified when Jeremy killed that hybrid who was threatening them?)
How come it’s okay for Elena to do this but she was so horrified when Jeremy killed that hybrid who was threatening them?
Ugh. And you want to bet she’ll still be squeamish about death in future episodes? And this comes after she was taking bullets out of Stefan’s guts, mind you.
The Alaric death fake-out is old. It’s reached Jeremy levels for me where I’m just like, oh for fuck’s sake, let him die already. And I have certain affection for both characters but with a cast this bloated, it’s time to kill people off and they keep coming back from it.
I’d also love the show to textually acknowledge that someone like Alaric coming back from the dead so frequently has some kind of mental or psychological effect. Like, it’s got to be a real mind-bender. Maybe that’s why he drinks so much, waking up from the dead every other Thursday should not be easy on the whole mental wellness of it all. I also think that’s why Jeremy has so many issues tbh.
At the end of the day, these rings are unnatural and constantly mess with the balance of ~nature~ (since death is as natural as anything else). I’d like the witches, badass as they are, to have installed consequences more serious than the batteries of the rings malfunctioning – like each time someone comes back, they lose a part of themselves.
Which is why having Alaric be the stabber would be kind of awesome. (I’d have taken Jeremy as he was next on my list of people to lose it. Although, Matt was also high up.)
I don’t think they’ll kill him any time soon though as JP adores that actor to the point where it’s discomfiting and the writers will clearly bend over backwards to make him relevant. Again and again.
Julie Plec is so unprofessional. I like your ideas for Alaric. Consequences are so often lacking on this show.
It made a little more sense for Alaric to stick around to be Jeremy’s sorta-guardian. (It would’ve made *more* sense if Alaric and Jenna had actually been married…or even engaged) But now that it’s just him and Elena…living together… um… no matter how often Elena calls him “family” and says she’s ok with him having women there overnight…. I think he should move out. If he’s there to “protect” Elena, well, that’s a laugh since Mr. Badass Vampire Slayer failed to protect himself from being stabbed… and not even stabbed in the back…but somehow he has no idea who it was…sheesh.
Pretty much the only way to make this plausible is your idea of making Alaric The Mad Stabber. 🙂 *Staking* the *human* medical examiner makes sense for a vampire slayer gone cuckoo… He was feeling protective towards Meredith…and then killed her ex-boyfriend who was mean to her! Oooh, and then Alaric killed Bill because Bill was mean to Meredith when she was trying to help him at the hospital! 😮 Whoa. It actually kind of makes sense. Why else would the writers include that scene where Meredith rants to Caroline about how Bill was such an ungrateful patient?
You might get your wish, Magali. 🙂 Alaric’s unnatural cheating of death might have consequences after all! But then the writers will pull some spell out of their butts to cure him and everyone will forgive his murdering ways like they forgive Damon and Stefan. And this whole storyline will have no affect on the characters in the future. Alaric will continue to look down on Damon, ’cause Stefan still acts superior and self-righteous after all the killing *he’s* done, so why not? Elena will be happy to keep living with Alaric as long as Alaric doesn’t kill Jeremy when he’s not wearing *his* ring 😛
no matter how often Elena calls him “family”
I think this is so rushed. So rushed and after this episode, I know why. They needed Elena to think of him as family so that him dying would be as big a deal to her as Caroline losing her father.
But then the writers will pull some spell out of their butts to cure him and everyone will forgive his murdering ways like they forgive Damon and Stefan.
And then the fans will call the witches Deux Ex Machinas instead of laying the blame at the writers’ feet for taking the easy way out to keep Alaric on the show.
At the end of the day, these rings are unnatural and constantly mess with the balance of ~nature~ (since death is as natural as anything else). I’d like the witches, badass as they are, to have installed consequences more serious than the batteries of the rings malfunctioning – like each time someone comes back, they lose a part of themselves.
Which is why having Alaric be the stabber would be kind of awesome. (I’d have taken Jeremy as he was next on my list of people to lose it. Although, Matt was also high up.)
Yes, I want consequences, I always thought that perhaps per supernatural kill, the ring would take one or five years from Alarics normal lifespan and then if he was killed too often and his lifespan would be reached he dies and meets Emily on the other side and he would talk about his ring and why it didn´t help because some vampire killed him and Emily would show him a flip chard with all the deaths he survived and next to this would be the calculation of the years he lost because of it and Emily would point out, that if he didn´t have Elena killed him this one time out of fun (or because he was drunk) then he probably could have celebrated his next birthday.
But I love your speculation more and it would fit into this whole serial killer sl, because I also still believe that he is the one who does this.
and then if he was killed too often and his lifespan would be reached he dies and meets Emily on the other side and he would talk about his ring and why it didn´t help because some vampire killed him and Emily would show him a flip chard with all the deaths he survived and next to this would be the calculation of the years he lost because of it and Emily would point out, that if he didn´t have Elena killed him this one time out of fun (or because he was drunk) then he probably could have celebrated his next birthday.
Lmao!!!!!
I’d love for Alaric’s frequent deaths to have a psychological backlash. For Jeremy, I’d want to be the messing with his mind and cutting off his feelings. I was thinking about it today and creating angsty scenes where he tells Bonnie he thinks he’s (emotionally) damaged. And Bonnie would be telling him she has this scarily sure feeling that she’s going to die young. And it would angst galore.
Mags, White men coming back to life will never be a bad thing. Why would nature, or witches, seek to correct that? But yes, humans are not supposed to keep coming back to life. It’s unnatural. Humans involved with the supernatural should eventually die. That’s why they have no powers!
Was there a time that JP said she wouldn’t be “daft” and open all those coffins at once? Like, I feel that I remember her saying something to that effect because there was so much story potential in them.
Now I’m torn between being thankful she did the dumb thing by getting them all open in a space of episodes because surely that means the sooner they’ll all be gone. BUT. Given this show, that probably means we’ll never be rid of them in some way, shape or form for the rest of series.
The show’s mythology and plot have become so wrapped up in this family that I barely recognize it anymore. And I’m all for messed up families, in fact that’s one of the themes that I love on this show. But when we get a preponderance of one, single family over all the other characters – who have similarly compelling, troubling family situations, I want to break things.
I can’t help feeling that if these writers were more systematic in their approach and developed coherent, consistent arcs for EVERY character, they would be capable of juggling a cast this big. But they are no Game of Thrones, so I don’t know why I bother.
It does baffle me how a show with 22 episodes per season can still have characters as underdeveloped as Bonnie and Stefan, one of whom is a “main” protagonist and the other of whom is a pretty important secondary protagonist. At this point it’s inexcusable. And I’m baffled.
Was there a time that JP said she wouldn’t be “daft” and open all those coffins at once? Like, I feel that I remember her saying something to that effect because there was so much story potential in them.
I don´t know if she ever said something about the coffins, but I remember one interview she gave at the beginning of season 3 or as a preview for “Ordinary People”.
There she said, that they realized it wouldn´t be very smart to introduce 6/7 new character (Klaus siblings) at the same time. After this my hopes were high that they wouldn´t bring back all this people … but then Ordinary People aired and we found out it wasn´t 7 characters anymore, only five because 2 children already died.
I think she thought with introducing Rebekah at the beginning of season 3 and Elijah being alreeady an established character, they could go with Finn and Kol in one episode. Smart move Julie. Yeh.
Word to all of the other parts of your comment. Especially on the Stefan and Bonnie part. It really looks like the motto is “Paul Wesley and Kat Graham also stars”.
Like Kathrin said, there was an interview where she realized it was crazy to introduce all 7 siblings. Does she think this is better? Yeah, there aren’t 7 siblings but there are 6 Originals. What’s the difference?
The show’s mythology and plot have become so wrapped up in this family that I barely recognize it anymore.
I completely agree, and it makes me think they’re going to be at a lost as to what to do with the main characters once the Originals are gone, because I do not think they plan things (in detail) well enough in advance, and we know this show doesn’t give itself transitional periods. Remember that clunky ass dialogue where Damon said, “And now we’re done with the werewolf chapter?”
Btw I watched that video in which Julie Plec and Caroline Dries “previewed” (because they showed it after the episode aired) and Bonnie/Abby/Caroline weren´t even mentioned.
All about the lovely brothers dinner and CSI Mystic Falls.
Yep, I watched it too. “Vampire Sopranos” at the dinner table.
I wasn’t surprised Bonnie wasn’t mentioned. It’s a miracle when Bonnie is mentioned while we know Caroline eventually gets her recognitions. I mean JP did praise her in this episode.
Don´t know if I ever can collect my thoughts about this episode in a structured post, but I thought the writers tried very hard to make me care about many characters this episode … but they forgot Bonnie and Abby all the way.
I couldn´t stand any scene with Caroline and her father and I thought they draw the emotional scenes and especially Candice cry-scenes out to a lever where I had to close my eyes.
Nevertheless I liked her scene with Elena on the porch except for Elena reminding her about Bills choice … the Jeremy compulsion is still in my mind.
I wanted Alaric to be dead, but I think he stabbed himself and waited (and hoped) that Elena would reach the Gilbert house on time. Which she did. That scene and her waiting for him to wake up … why should I care?
The Salvatore/Mikaelsons dinner, first of all, who decided about this horrible outfits the girls serving or being dinner wore?
I didn´t need that story about Elijah and Klaus being in love with the Original and I for sure didn´t need them to built plans for Elenas future … what is going on with these people.
Cheered when Klaus grilled Stefan … and I cheered when his siblings came in and attacked him. It could have gone a little bit longer for my taste.
Hated the first Bonnie/Abby/Stefan scene and also Damons comments at the beginning and in the end … these show and its writers. Unbelievable.
Loved that we got a little bit more information about the spells and I loved what Bonnie told Abby, how she coped with her being away and that nobody talked about her.
That spell scene was pretty, love these kind of scenes always. That Bonnie had to go and call Damon was simply for the plot, because it looked dumb to call him before they got it open.
What I hated that after the coffin was opened and we saw Abby screaming … they waited probably 30 minutes until they showed us what happened. What kind of story-telling is this?
And then they end it with such a crap scene and them being knocked out? What a mess. And we probably won´t see them next week. A shame.
What I didn´t understand about this Original family is, that Elijah was with Klaus at least until 1600 or so and he said that Finn (poor Finn hopefully we get something like that scene with the vampires and the mikrowave in season one … but it must be so much harder for him) was in this coffin for 900 years, so he must have seen the coffin after he was with Klaus everywhere … but last season Elijah said that Klaus throw his siblings into the sea.
Is this retcon or did he get false information from somewhere?
Finally just a short observation … I know that Klaus feared his whole family in the end and I don´t know why, but what is going on between him and Kol? He looked so frightened first when Elijah said “you have Kol to deal with” and then in the final scene when Kol went into the room. His reaction wasn´t that strong when Finn or Rebekah rushed in … and the former was in a coffin because of him for 900 years (didn´t get much of his eternal undead life … only 100 years – he has to catch up).
That final scene was so cheesy and with bad dialogue and all in all bad acted by the actress who plays the mother. I could have lived without this.
A final question, why are the doppelgängers supernatural … is it because the blood of the Original Petrova was used in the ritual to create vampires or is it something more (was she supernatural from the start, like a succubus because every guy in the village loved her?) … and how could they create a doppelgänger if she already had a child or did they cursed they child and its family line to create doppelgängers every 500 years or so?
They should have talked about that and not that damn triangle repeating itself every 500 years.
Before I forget it Matt was awesome … didn´t expect him to show up. And that guy who plays Kol looks fine … but I think I already admitted it in another post awhile ago. Wouldn´t mind if he has some scenes with Bonnie, because I think all the other Originals will probably only interact with Elena and the Salvatores.
I couldn´t stand any scene with Caroline and her father and I thought they draw the emotional scenes and especially Candice cry-scenes out to a lever where I had to close my eyes.
It was over the top. All of that crying and wailing for a character that barely existed. What does this do for her character, exactly? She’s going to a ball next episode.
I think that porch scene was the best Caroline/Elena scene to date (it had no competition). It’s the first time I felt Elena was being there for her without any ickyness or distance. The scene went on way too long though. Geez.
That scene and her waiting for him to wake up … why should I care?
Because Elena might’ve lost another family member. The chances of that were very high, don’t you know?! *____*.
I didn’t even pay attention to what the girls were wearing. I just knew they were expressionless and silent while the men talked shop. Which included Elena’s reproductive future. So freaking gross.
That Bonnie had to go and call Damon was simply for the plot, because it looked dumb to call him before they got it open.
Yep, it was. She’s in too much contact with these Salvatores. It felt like she needed to notify them of every step she took. This on the heel of her needing to call Stefan as soon as they found the address.
What I hated that after the coffin was opened and we saw Abby screaming … they waited probably 30 minutes until they showed us what happened. What kind of story-telling is this?
It’s crap storytelling! I hated that. Can you imagine them doing that to Caroline? Bill is stabbed and we wait 30 minutes to find out if he’s dead.
Is this retcon or did he get false information from somewhere?
It’s retcon. Elijah was with Klaus in 1492. He never saw the coffins?
I bet that Kol moment will turn out to be nothing. The fans are focusing on it, but it must’ve been a writing gaff. Finn should have been introduced first. Esther’s dialogue was horrid.
We still don’t know why the doppelgangers are supernatural. Yeah, she was used to make vampires and then somehow to bind Klaus. How does that translate to her face repeating?
Matt was good.
I thought Kol was cute too at first, but the more I look at him the more he doesn’t look that special. He looks like Elijah and ironically enough, that’s not helping him (because I do think Elijah is fine. Lol).
“What does this do for her character, exactly? She’s going to a ball next episode.”
Haha! Remember when Caroline was all perky and “let’s go on a picnic!” right after Jenna died. Good times. Might as well celebrate after Bill’s death anyway (I know *I* am!) 😉
I totally agree about the over-the-top wailing… and the way the show lingered on the Bill/Caroline scenes while cutting away from Bonnie/Abby, was so frustrating. And the show gets praised for it’s pacing?
I am not sure if I missed a comment about this – Why do these particular set of murders matter? In the same ep that Klaus was dining on women, people were talking about the murderer of some Council members like it was priority #1. Vampires have been killing people forever in this town. Why should I care about this?
It seems to matter because at first they killed a regular guy with a stake to the heart. And now the person seems to be going after Council members? I’m not too sure of the importance (rme), but…..I mean in the end I’m sure the person will turn out to be supernatural or will be after Elena (as can be seen by the fact that her prints are on the murder weapons).
Oh right – Elena. I just love how Liz didn’t give a damn about Stefan and what he was doing but is now hunting a murderer.
Seriously. Ugh.
Who are these mystery guys who keep getting doppelgangers pregnant? Is there a male doppelganger out there? Lol. Oh no! Is it Matt? Alaric? Hahaha!
Lol. They seem to be guys the women were with, then left.
Maybe that is the real tragedy of these doppelgangers. They keep losing their first loves. I want some dude to show up around the time Elena starts developing mysterious powers. Maybe they could be like the wonder twins – “Doppelganger Powers ACTIVATE!” What? Is it anymore ridiculous than what we have on screen right now?