It really did start off good….

JP gave an interview about the episode. Do NOT read it if you don’t want to be spoiled about a moment in the next episode between Stefan and Elena.

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42 thoughts on “It really did start off good….

  1. I take it the episode was a letdown? That sucks. Haven’t seen it yet, but my major issues with compulsion and how the show deals with it are causing me to lean towards number 2.

    • The first half was fine, as is the case sometimes, but the second half? Specifically what Elena did to Jeremy. Ugh.

      There was adequate Bonnie though, and we saw her room twice.

      • That’s disappointing. I’m going to try and watch it on saturday…or maybe tomorrow night. Anyway, I have huge issues with how the show handles compulsion and the question of consent. Especially after they spent a lot of time earlier in the season failing to acknowledge that compulsion had occurred. I don’t know why these people trust each other tbh.

        And I read the post on your Tumblr about the witches not burning/hurting Stefan and him being in the witch house and O___o. Are the writers just lazy or did they just forget or are they seriously confused about the fact that Stefan is just as monstrous, if not more so, than Damon and should probably start smelling like chicken.

        There was adequate Bonnie though, and we saw her room twice.

        This is the best news. Also saw a few posts about this on Tumblr before I tumblr saviored the entire show. For a second, I forgot that we weren’t going to meet her mother for another few episodes and I was ready to ask about her, but I’m happy to hear that she was in the episode more than the spoilers indicated.

        • I don’t know why these people trust each other tbh.

          Thiiiissss. Bonnie should be thanking her lucky stars that Elena can’t just get someone to compel her (I keep thinking of the number of times she would’ve done it already if she could), and Caroline should be thankful Elena isn’t friends with Klaus. And Alaric’s just walking around like his ass can’t be compelled. He’s so useless.

          What’s worse is they had a whole sequence of the witches showing how much they don’t like Damon (think of Stefan throwing himself against the lockers). And two (maybe 3) lines talking about how the witches don’t like him.

          Yeah, the spoiler stuff made it seem like she’d be in it less than she was.

          • And how Elena is being positioned as simultaneously in the wrong (because she feels guilty), but unable to be questioned. Because who is going to question her.

            It’s just, this show has no concern for the amount of drama/tension/danger it creates. So why should we?

            So the witches threw Damon around again and then there were only lines about them not liking Stefan? Gross. Like, the writers need to let other characters hate him and see him the way he is. Because what they’re doing now is sloppy.

            • i think the reason they are making stefan so cold is because they want delena to hit off for the fans there is no other possible reason for stefan becoming evil…he is a character who we have known since the beginning and we have seen him during ups and downs and even in his ripper days he was always deep down inside guilty sweet stefan but they have developed a very different character now and are illuminating the old stefan to spice up tvd…i know there is never going to be a serious relationship between elena and damon because it will ruin the brotherhood theme…..I don’t know what they can do to fix the storyline, i am just wishing for a miracle to happen and the make a genius episode!

              • My problem with Stefan isn’t that he’s horrible. I like that. As a matter of fact I fear that in the end this will be just a phase and they’ll think they just “turned” him bad for a bit. My problem is that the characters are either blaming it on Klaus or not commenting on it at all. No one is going, “this is Stefan, and he’s an ass!”

  2. Stefan bothered me the WHOLE episode from the moment we saw him. I knew it, I knew it, I knew he would have his ass at the witch house. Than on top of him already being there without Bonnie the way he talked to her “your a witch”,like Bitch she know that. He up in there like he own it. Bonnie never even walked around the witch house like Stefan did tonight asshole.

    Elena compelled Jeremy again I voted for this I could not believe she did that again. Last time it did not make his life better something was still missing. Let him feel things Elena he is a person a human being she has NO RIGHT to decide for him. Well Jeremy is to sad I have to compel him, oh Jeremy is upset and getting involved in the supernatural life I have to compel him to go away. You need to compel yourself to leave way won’t she do that. She’s all up in it. I’m so bad about this right now.

    Tyler is a moron that’s all.

    After all the spoilers I was actually surprised how much Bonnie we got. I saw her room, her room people. These people much not watch the show because that a lot of Bonnie.

    • It honestly took at least 3 times seeing him there before it clicked that that’s where he was. My hate for him became so intense after that. What’s more beautiful is that he’s not even doing anything! The witches are cloaking the coffins and yet he’s walking around and talking to Bonnie like he’s actually accomplishing something. I can’t stand him. I will say that it was great watching him talk to Bonnie like she’s his servant. That’s how he’s been thinking of her since season 2. He’s just not bothering with the “please” and that damn “earnest” face.

      I can’t with the Jeremy thing. Is Elena serious? How many times has she felt like she couldn’t deal with this? She wanted to kill herself last season for cripe’s sake. Yet Jeremy literally has ONE bad day and she decides he should be compelled to take a vacation. I hope Jeremy never comes back. I can’t handle the b.s. and Kool-Aid drinking that would be required if he came back and did not disown Elena.

      Tyler….no words. He has no foresight. Like at all.

      Me too. What are these people’s standards for “being in an episode a lot?” They must be working on the screen times Damon, Elena, Stefan, and Caroline get.

  3. Can´t comment properly because I had to go to bed like two hours ago, but just wanted to say two things:

    1. I KNEW IT … after I read that dmn spoiler about Elena making a decision for Jeremy, I knew that she would make Damon compel him. I can´t with it. Unbelievable … and then having her talking about it. Eyeroll on repeat. That was the moment we should tear up in this episode?
    Unbelievable.
    What did they do with Jeremy? I can´t … and he wasn´t even a favourite of mine.

    2. Red Sheets. Nuff said.

    Good night, will write something longer and more reasonable tomorrow/today for me.

  4. I wish I could have voted for all 3 options.

    Stefan. I don’t even know where to start.

    I ended up voting for Elena having Jeremy compelled. I love how she and Alaric didn’t even try to talk to Jeremy and went straight for the compelling. Is this what JP was talking about? About Elena becoming darker and making problematic decisions? But I don’t feel like the show was acknowledging that this was indeed a very, very problematic decision. Yeah, there was one line (or maybe two) about Elena feeling guilty but apart from that the whole scene was all about Elena feeling sad about ‘losing’ her brother and we were obviously meant to sympathize with her/agree with her decision? And then there was Damon’s line about how she is such a great sister and that’s how we’re supposed to see her.

    Just one thing about Tyler. I couldn’t believe it when he was so shocked that *gasp* Klaus is willing to kill people. Seriously, Tyler?

    • The lack of talking was really ridiculous. He’s her brother, yes. That’s not synonymous with puppet. What’s stupid is that she sent Jeremy away because *Gasp* he was complaining about how much their lives suck. Yet we’re going to continue watching the episodes and see Elena complaining about…..how much her life sucks. Like, what what? How many times does it need to happen before she gets that she.cannot.do.that. This is different from locking someone in a room. It’s different level of disrespect because it takes away the person’s ability to react.

      Damon is hardly an authority on how to be a good sibling. Smh.

      I don’t get Tyler. Caroline literally said to him that Klaus is the bad guy. What does he think “bad” mean? He is aware that this man killed Jenna and Elena, right?

      • How many times does it need to happen before she gets that she.cannot.do.that.

        Yes, this negates the entire point of the S1 sl about Elena having Jeremy compelled. I read an interview with JP in which she says that the lesson Elena learned in S1 is still on her mind. But that is ony lip-service. The only thing that’s on Elena’s mind is that Jeremy got very mad at her when he found about that and she doesn’t want that to happen again. That’s it. It’s all about Elena and her feelings, who cares about Jeremy’s POV.

        Also, I feel like this type of long-term compulsion which affects a person on such a fundamental level should severely mess with said person’s brain. I mean, that can’t be healthy. at. all. There should be long-lasting consequences.

        He is aware that this man killed Jenna and Elena, right?

        And him. Although he doesn’t seem to care about that.

        Idk. I just find it funny that, from what I’ve read so far, nobody in the fandom seems to like this sire sl.

  5. I still haven’t watched the ep because I don’t feel like making myself sick quite yet but from what I’ve read about the ep, I am afraid this is all leading up to Tyler’s “heroic” death. The dude has never been close with the ToD and now, the show is saying he is in the “wrong”. I bet there was no mention of how wrong Elena has been in dealing with the monsters in her life but, somehow, Elena is completely right and Tyler is completely wrong so he MUST pay. Run away Tyler. RUN AWAY! I bet, if it turns out that Bonnie is working her own angle and is secretly following her own plan, she will be the EVIL.

    I think it is in character for Elena and the creature known as Dalaric to do what they did to Jeremy. However, it is highly unlikely that this will be explored from Jeremy’s end adequately. He won’t be allowed to be angry for more than an ep or so because NO ONE is. That is the real issue – not that the ToD does bad things. It is basically what Olu wrote

    Elena is being positioned as simultaneously in the wrong (because she feels guilty), but unable to be questioned. Because who is going to question her.

    Bottom line, this show would work if it was only Damon’s show or only the Salvatores’ show. Kinda like Interview With The Vampire. Salvatores+other characters+Mystic Falls doesn’t work – not the way the show is currently written. By having other regular characters on the show and by setting this show in a fixed location, the show has made those things important to the show. It is lazy writing to not balance the diff POVs. One thing that really annoyed me last season is how no one suggested killing Elena or giving her over to Klaus as a way of dealing with that threat – other than Elena herself. Such thoughts about Her Holiness is blasphemy.

    The best possible thing that could happen is if Jeremy drank vervain because he anticipated this mess or if Bonnie figures out a way to magically undo compulsion. Compulsion is a kind of magic that vampires do, right? Why can’t a witch reverse that? Plus, witches can do their own version (Maddox/Carol) so why not? In a perfect world, all of this will result in a permanent rift between Elena and Jeremy. Maybe Jeremy even moves out or things get so bad between them that Elena leaves the Gilbert house permanently.

    Also, I don’t understand why this show is so plot driven. I don’t understand the concept of an actiony plot driven television soap. I view the medium in a completely diff way than they do. I understand a fast paced soap but a plot driven one makes no sense to me. A soap is by definition a show in which relationships move the story forward. In general, it seems to me that Television, with the possible exception of some procedurals, should be character driven. You have to want to invite these people (characters) in to your home every week. You are watching their daily lives. In order for that to be interesting, you have to actually know/care about them. You don’t have to agree with everything they do or think they are the bestest people ever but you have to have good insight into who they are and what their motivations are and be invested in their reactions to what is going on around them. If Jeremy comes back without any anger, wtf am I supposed to think about that? It is not like what his non-anger means will be explored in any way.

    • Of course there was no mention of how Elena has handled the monsters in her life *____*. Aside from Jeremy pointing out to her that she doesn’t have the most stellar friends either, although that point was quickly dropped in favor of going in on Tyler. But I think that if Tyler ends up dead (which I don’t think he will) it won’t be because he’s not friends with Elena, but because he has nothing to do in the plot. He’s really not a mover and shaker. Like this siring thing: okay he’s sired. And? What is he doing about that? What does he think about that? How is it affecting his day to day life? They’re telling us instead of showing us: he’s Klaus’ minion; he can’t make his own choices. They told us this in one episode. We don’t see it, but we hear about it (we heard about how he became friends with Jer to steal his bracelet. Didn’t even see him stealing it).

      Tyler is close to enemy number 1 now. This guy once kidnapped him and Caroline and killed Elena as well as Jeremy’s aunt (whom he was hanging out with and seemed to care about), does he seriously not think Klaus deserves to die? Instead of making the siring thing 100%, they should have made it like compulsion where even though Tyler’s sired, part of his individual thoughts creep through. This way he could have been working his own angle with Klaus, even if he wasn’t necessarily cooperating with Damon and Elena (how about just Caroline and Bonnie? Just Caroline? Caroline and Matt? Caroline, Matt, and Jeremy?) But as things stand, no part of him is rebelling against working for a vamp (so far they’ve mainly played the vamp/wolf rivalry from the vamp’s pov and here they had a chance to play it from Tyler’s).

      I think about how Bonnie used to be distant from the ToD, she once worked her own angle too, and she was still part of the plot. She wasn’t in every episode and her pov wasn’t explored well, but she was moving things and threatening people. Tyler has no strong opinions about anything. Not being part of the ToD doesn’t mean never talking to them ever. Bonnie talked to them because her interests crossed with theirs. What are Tyler’s interests? That’s what I mean when I say he’s not a mover and shaker. Based on the spoilers we read, he’s going to feel different about his position but it seems it’s going to be in a way where he can handle it alone/with Caroline’s help.

      I remember when Caroline worked for Katherine. We saw her pov, we saw her talking to Katherine and trying to rebel (even though Katherine shut her down). We saw how she was scared to go home. We’re not getting this with Tyler. They made his thing to absolute, imo.

      The best possible thing that could happen is if Jeremy drank vervain because he anticipated this mess or if Bonnie figures out a way to magically undo compulsion.

      I think the second option is our best bet. Jeremy’s pupils dilated which is the sign that someone’s being compelled. Of course in Plan B, Matt’s pupils didn’t dilate (he even blinked) and he was still compelled *___*. I’d love it if Bonnie challenged Elena and told her she was going to reverse the compulsion. Jeremy can still be offscreen for a while because it will take Bonnie time to come up with the spell. I think it will be ooc and will taint the love she has for him if she just accepts the others mindwiping him. I think she should be able to reverse it simply because magic created vampires, so magic should be able to override a vamp’s powers (other than their power to create vamps).

      the creature known as Dalaric

      Lol!

      The high possibility that this won’t be explored through Jeremy’s pov is the main reason I just don’t want him to come back. I don’t want him to come back and basically kowtow to Elena. I don’t want to watch Elena feel bad. That’s still her pov. I want to watch Jeremy, Bonnie, heck maybe even Caroline be mad at and upset with her for what she did.

      • But I think that if Tyler ends up dead (which I don’t think he will) it won’t be because he’s not friends with Elena, but because he has nothing to do in the plot. He’s really not a mover and shaker.

        And that is another maddening part. Tyler should be a mover and shaker in this plot. It is a plot about werewolves for God’s sake. The cave drawings were on his property. He is going through a big change. He is connected to the ToD through Caroline. He is the Mayor’s son. I don’t know what else to say. He should have lots to do with this story. Him not being a mover and shaker didn’t just happen organically.. It is not like they ran out of story ideas for him or that the overall direction of the story leaves no room for him. They are just LAZY. It is like how they spend so much time with Klaus but none of it feels like it has any substance.

        The siring thing seems ridiculous. I really hope they don’t say that Bonnie’s mom or family had anything to do with this mess. I say this because of that article where JP(I think) said that Bonnie’s heritage is the key to a lot of what is going on right now.

        We don’t see it, but we hear about it (we heard about how he became friends with Jer to steal his bracelet. Didn’t even see him stealing it).

        Of course not. That would ruin the “twist”. Plot before characters! Ugh! Words cannot express how much I don’t want to watch this. I guess I will catch up on OUAT and listen to your podcast on that later tonight or tomorrow.

        Also, I should stop ranting about an ep I haven’t watched. lol

        • If this show wasn’t plot before characters like you say then all of the characters, all of the supernatural ones at least, would have had a chance to become key to the plot at some point.

          Girl this plot features werewolves, but it’s about vampires. Notice how the werewolf aspect of being a Hybrid is never mentioned, not even when it comes to Klaus. As a matter of fact, being a Hybrid pretty much erases lycanthropy. They not only don’t have to change during a full moon, but Tyler isn’t even shown as missing it. Even a little bit.

          or that the overall direction of the story leaves no room for him.

          Very true. I’m telling you, the point where Tyler became doomed is when they didn’t have him pissed at the ToD (and Bonnie) over Mason’s death. Instead he took it out on Caroline and then was decorating Damon’s house and talking about Elena’s love life. Had they made him mad at Damon/Stefan/Elena, made him someone who needs to be coaxed back into the fold, given him the Bonnie treatment basically, then I think chances would have been better that he would be more present in this story, instead of sitting around while Alaric and Elena lecture him.

          Also, I should stop ranting about an ep I haven’t watched. lol

          Lmao. The bad of this show is so familiar though. All you need to do is read about what went wrong and you can pretty much rant correctly, lol.

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