Can you guess the moments that made Julie Plec Cry?

I’d say the scenes don’t get much better after Pearl/Anna

Any more spoiler links you guys find about the second half of the season should be put in the comments of this post. I realize the other one is getting a little crowded with the links I put up.

It seems Elena needs to start praying Rebekah doesn’t wake up.

Rebekah 2 .

Any guesses?

Three TVD Spoilers . And JP says one of them “with a laugh.”

Someone might have a bleak future.

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77 thoughts on “Can you guess the moments that made Julie Plec Cry?

  1. Thanks Alta for bringing this over and you´re right the other “thread” is a little bit crowded … didn´t expect that many spoilers in the last days.

    Ok to JP and her cry-moments:

    While I loved the reunion of Anna and Pearl especially in memory of her in season one (because in season three she only mentioned her mother in the exact same episode in which she showed up) I didn´t get teary eyed … that only happened with Bonnie and Grams … and after what JP said I think I know the reason why it felt a little flat to me:

    What’s funny is we had talked all along about Pearl perhaps being in that ghost episode, and then when we finally got down to the nitty-gritty of breaking it and needed to tell a story and service a lot of characters, we realized that there was no room to tell the story of Pearl coming back. And so we put it away, and decided not to have her in the episode.

    They probably decided in the last sessions to include her but didn´t think of the build up to this. They never let Anna mentioned her mother in all the five or six episodes in which she was in and then comes this scene. It was beautiful … but they could have done so much better. And in comparison to that the Grams/Bonnie scene was phenomenal for me and I really cried. JP should have mentioned that scene too. But it is JP, what do we expect.

    Either I´m cruel or a heartless person but that Stefan/Elena scene in the closet, the Originals (I don´t care about them) reunion and the Elena/Damon scene weren´t that emotional for me.
    Don´t know why, but they didn´t moved me that much or at all.

    I have to confess, that I felt something during that Stefan/Elena phone call and if we watch the scene like JP mentioned “it didn’t even matter to us what the rest of the episode was about when all was said and done, because we knew we had that moment. ” then it was heartbreaking … but after I thought about the first scenes of the episode and what Stefan did during his summer trip with Klaus I felt ashamed for my feelings.

    Her choice for that Bonnie/Caroline/Elena scene is approved, also the death scenes of UJ and Jenna, But I will forever be bitter, that nobody except for Alaric mentioned Jenna … and who is Uncle John?

    If we go after the moments of 2011 I would add: Bonnie saving Jeremy in the season final, her own death in episode 18 and after her conversation with Elena (damn you product placement) and the Vicki/Matt scenes in “The Reckoning” and “Smells like Teen Spirit”.
    That would it be for me …

    • They probably decided in the last sessions to include her but didn´t think of the build up to this.

      I think you’re right. They decided to shelve the story and it definitely showed. Now she’s doing some back explaining. The Bonnie/Grams moment made me want to cry too. Unlike Pearl and Anna, Bonnie had build up to her reunion with grams. We got to see what a hole her death left in Bonnie. Now of course Pearl/Anna could have had the same build up. After all, Anna was here for like 6 episodes. But instead they didn’t change their minds about bringing Pearl in until they were writing episode 7. And how can she not be moved by that Bonnie/Sheila scene? Do these producers even have a Bonnie scene that moved them emotionally? Ugh, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The favoritism is all over their interviews and choices.

      They didn’t move me at all either. And like I told Magali, it’s stunning to me that the originals scene made her cry. We barely know these characters. I’m not even invested in them. Why is she crying? I don’t know what was cry-worthy about that Damon/Elena scene. And Elena was looking to crazy in that closet for me to have felt like crying. Lol.

      Her choice for that Bonnie/Caroline/Elena scene is approved

      I’m so resentful of how she described that scene:

      We’ve all been there. You didn’t have to ask, in fact, if anything, you tried to keep everyone away, and then they came anyway to be there for you.

      Oh yeah, JP? Bonnie hasn’t been there. It’s lovely that Caroline tried to keep everyone away yet they come anyway, but when Bonnie does it everyone just stays away. Lovely.

      I haven’t had a lot of moments that made me cry, but there have been some that got me emotional (in a good way). Let’s see, starting after season 1: Bonnie’s death is number 1; Bonnie’s convo with Elena via computer is number 2. Those two moments had tears in my eyes. Tyler changing into a werewolf is number 3. And I was emotional when Bonnie brought Jeremy back. I think that’s it.

      • I’m so resentful of how she described that scene

        Oh. I didn´t even read her description for that scene. I should have done that.
        You´re right something like that didn´t happen with Bonnie.

        Tyler changing into a werewolf was very emotional too. I agree with you especially because Michael did an awesome job.

      • We’ve all been there. You didn’t have to ask, in fact, if anything, you tried to keep everyone away, and then they came anyway to be there for you.

        Oh yeah, JP? Bonnie hasn’t been there. It’s lovely that Caroline tried to keep everyone away yet they come anyway, but when Bonnie does it everyone just stays away. Lovely.

        All I can say is dis bitch asshole. I side eye that whole post. smh

        I cried for Bonnie/Grams Anna/Pearl and that was it. I laughed my ass off a Stefan on the phone with Elena. I’m laughing my ass off at the serial killer closet wall scene. Fuck every thing! fuck it all. UGH!

    • Thanks, Alta for linking to that article. That was an interesting read. Not because of the scenes JP chose but because it was interesting to read about her perspective on these scenes and about the writing process.

      Can’t say that I’m surprised by the scenes JP. Well, the only thing that suprised me was that she didn’t choose more Delena scenes, given the fact that they are such a huge part of the show. Like, I fully expected her to mention the death bed scene from 2×22. So, that was weird.

      When it comes to the scenes she actually chose.
      – Pearl/Anna: I agree with you – there wasn’t enough build-up to make that scene really work for me.
      – Stefan/Elena phone scene: I’m right there with you, Kathrin. I thought that the scene in itself was good – but if you put it in context ,,, ugh.

      Actually, I started feeling this way around late S2: I thought that a lot of the emotional scenes from late S2 were pretty good/well executed (e.g. the Stelena scenes in The Last Day, the voice-over with Uncle John’s letter, and the Delena death bed scene) but, at the same time, were varying shades of terrible if put in context. JP’s comment (it didn’t even matter to us what the rest of the episode was about when all was said and done, because we knew we had that moment) is basically how I feel the writers approached (and still approach) most of the show’s big ‘moments’.

      – Stefan arranges the sleepover: I really liked the Caroline/Bonnie/Elena part of that scene but didn’t care about Stefan arranging it. It didn’t ring true for me and really, have the Salvatores to be involved in everything on this show?
      – Damon/Elena scene: Didn’t ring true for me either, plus, this whole “Stefan’s love for Damon will save him” is just ugh
      – The Originals: Lol! I’m not surprised that she chose that scene. It was obvious that this scene was supposed to be a big deal. But I’m not invested in these characters and their relationships with each other either. So that scene fell flat for me too.
      – Stefan/Elena closet scene: Creepiest scene ever, that is all

      I’m a heartless person because this show has never made me cry. Emotional, yes – actual tears, nope.

      I agree with the scenes you both mentioned. When it comes to S3, I would add Jeremy/Matt talking about Vicki and how they don’t remember their last moments with her/looking at a photo of her in 2×02 and the moment before Matt jumps into the pool in 2×05. I don’t even know why the latter made me emotional, especially since Matt’s plan was beyond stupid, but it did.

      • I felt the same way about the Matt moments. I think it is because attention was paid to his grief before 2×05. There was some build up even before the 2×02 Matt/Jeremy moment. We saw Matt drunk and lost looking at Elena’s party. There was also that tiny sad moment in the car when he heard Jeremy say Vicki’s name but he wasn’t entirely sure. By the time he jumped in the pool, I could buy that part of him just wanted to die. It was different from the UJ letter in that way. There was barely any attention paid to the UJ/Elena relationship after she decided to give their relationship a chance. She didn’t think of him at all on the day of the sacrifice. I understand that David Anders wasn’t available but there are ways to work around that. I don’t understand why they didn’t have Elena write a letter to her friends/family before the sacrifice. She could have written about how she wished she had a chance to know UJ better and that she regrets all the time she wasted being angry at him. That way Elena’s emotional reaction to his letter would have gotten to me. Especially since UJ would have died without receiving Elena’s letter. As it stands, Elena didn’t give a damn about him until he dropped dead *for her* and left her a letter which made her feel guilty. Would she have noticed if he had randomly died of a heart attack? I doubt it.

        I’ve never cried while watching this show and I’ve cried during cheesy commercials. Scenes that came close in no particular order: (1) When Bonnie found Grams dead (2) Elena’s OTT reaction to Bonnie’s “death” (3) When Anna found Pearl dead (4) When UJ killed Anna (5) When Damon burned Luka alive and Jonas’ reaction in the moment to it (Lol. I guess I am into parent/child sad moments) (6) When Tyler told Caroline that he was afraid of transforming after they watched Mason’s first transformation.

        I am sure there were more but that is all I can thin of right now. I would add Jenna’s death but the overriding emotion there was anger at Elena’s dumbassness. I would also add the Caroline/Liz hug in the season 2 finale but the overriding emotion was frustration at how abruptly the interesting (to me alone, it seems) double/triple cross storyline ended.

        • She could have written about how she wished she had a chance to know UJ better and that she regrets all the time she wasted being angry at him.

          Please, Elena never believed she was going to die. Maybe if chances were good she’d stay dead, but as things stood….Then again before she got vampire blood in her, she didn’t seem ready to leave letters either.

      • I can’t get behind the scene where Elena is reading John’s letter to her. It took me out because I could see it as trying to be emotionally manipulative AND the fact that John didn’t mention Jeremy at all took me right the fuck out of the scene. It was all about Elena and she wasn’t the only one left behind.

        this show is horrible. I really want to drop it. Kat Graham or no.

        • The UJ letter not mentioning Jeremy is like how Caroline didn’t get to have a reaction to Bonnie’s “death”. The whole show is shipping+Elena.

    • I have to confess, that I felt something during that Stefan/Elena phone call and if we watch the scene like JP mentioned “it didn’t even matter to us what the rest of the episode was about when all was said and done, because we knew we had that moment. ” then it was heartbreaking … but after I thought about the first scenes of the episode and what Stefan did during his summer trip with Klaus I felt ashamed for my feelings.

      Yeah, the Stefan/Andie stuff (and all Andie related stuff) and the murder spree stuff was gross but that wasn’t the only reason I didn’t like that scene. I think the Stefan/Andie/Damon scenes and the ending Stelena scene was supposed to be like when Damon killed Tanner and then later sneaked into Elena’s bedroom to stare at her (I think that happened in the same ep but I might be wrong). In killing Tanner, Damon was also killing part of Stefan’s fantasy of being a ~*~real boy~*~. Similarly, in killing Andi, Stefan was also killing part of Damon’s fantasy of having a real gf or being a real relationship where he is fully accepted?? The Tanner murder worked for me because it *increased* the tension in the story – not decreased it. The show was playing with the idea of whether or not Damon was a complete monster? But in Stefan’s case, the show has already drilled it into my head that he is a martyr. The Andie murder was already set up as a way to save Damon from Klaus. When Damon killed Tanner, he wasn’t saving anyone. All of Stefan’s actions have a convenient excuse. Plus, I didn’t have a history with Damon like I do with Stefan now. The show has already established that he is capable of TVD’s version of humanity and they made it clear that he still had it when he volunteered to go after Damon instead of letting Klaus do it.

      I am not sure I am explaining this properly. I guess, it was the ambiguousness that worked for me in the Damon/Tanner scene? Ok so, I get a thrill when the subtext of a scene is the opposite of the text of the scene and TVD did that a few times mostly with Damon early on. I liked it when Stefan said he knew Damon wasn’t just a monster and Damon immediately ripped out Tanner’s throat. Him getting so angry/scared actually made it seem like he *did* have some humanity in him but, then at the same time, HE RIPPED OUT THE COACH’S THROAT. And that was acknowledged, in some small way, as an actual terrible thing. Elena was losing her shit in the parking lot and Bonnie was crying while seeing random numbers (Am I the only one who thought this was going to lead to a “Bonnie is crazy” storyline. I mean, she convinced herself that she was psychic but she never was one which means that she made up all the signs pointing to that in her head – like the numbers.). So there was this sharp contrast between the text and subtext (not sure I am wording that right). Then later when he creeps into Elena’s room, it was sorta the same thing. Here is this strange man creeping into this girl’s room (and this was when Elena wasn’t in to him AT ALL) but him being so sad made it seem like he was an actual person (instead of the cartoon he is now) and not just a boogeyman. With the Stefan scenes in that ep, it was like the show was telling me he is the hero because he is the hero no matter what he does. I never got the impression there was any danger of Stefan losing his “humanity” by the time he called Elena. I didn’t get the chance to think anything was lost before the show reinforced the notion that Stefan has ~humanity~ again. I feel like, given Stefan’s history of “humanity” TVD style, the show should have worked waaay harder to convince me that there was a chance of anything going wrong – like say by having one of the regular characters react with horror to his serial killer ways. I think the Damon stuff in early season one also worked because (to me at least) the definition of humanity in the show hadn’t narrowed down to almost nothing yet

      Wtvr ramble ramble ramble the show blows ramble ramble GRRRR! ramble ramble.

      I’ve been watching American Horror Story recently. The difference between how that show portrays Violet/Tate and this show portrays Elena/Salvatores is kinda fascinating because they seem to be the same *type* of characters. Idk. Maybe AHS will troll me in the finale by telling me that Tate is 100% a hero and I will want to gouge my eyes out.

      • I agree with what you said about Damon vs. Stefan and how they told/are telling their stories. Although the Fandom was making Damon into a woobie even in season 1, the show wasn’t backing them up. Now it definitely is.

        Similarly, in killing Andi, Stefan was also killing part of Damon’s fantasy of having a real gf or being a real relationship where he is fully accepted??

        It depends on what you mean by real. I don’t think the Andie relationship meant that much to Damon. I don’t think he ever fooled himself into thinking it was real. He already said he was with her to keep from going after Elena. He knows Andie wouldn’t be with him if he wasn’t forcing her.

        I mean, she convinced herself that she was psychic but she never was one which means that she made up all the signs pointing to that in her head – like the numbers.

        Bonnie never thought she was psychic. Caroline asked her if she was psychic or a witch and Bonnie said she was descended from these “cool Salem witch chicks.”

        • It depends on what you mean by real. I don’t think the Andie relationship meant that much to Damon. I don’t think he ever fooled himself into thinking it was real.

          I agree. Damon never really thought it was real. However, Stefan never really thought he was a 17 yr old high school football player either. This is going to sound crazy but it was like they were breaking each other’s toys. Damon broke Stefan’s football video game (his fantasy of *being* someone) and Stefan destroyed Damon’s doll (his fantasy of *being with* someone).

  2. They’re really trying to make “daggered” and all variations of it happen, aren’t they?

    This sounds good, but then I remember Stefan is actually going to pose a threat to Klaus. So, you know. I’m always up for seeing this temper of Rebekah’s I’ve heard about, but I wonder how much of a threat she’ll really be. Or should I ask how much of a threat they’ll let her be.

    More important, who will take the dagger out of her? I’ve got nothing. It can’t be Elena. I can’t think of one interesting reason (not good, but interesting) for Elena to take the dagger out.

    • I hate that word. English is not even my first language, but it irks me in some way. Don´t know why. But they are the writers who also created “vervained” … perhaps later this season we will hear “wolfsbaned”.

      More important, who will take the dagger out of her? I’ve got nothing. It can’t be Elena. I can’t think of one interesting reason (not good, but interesting) for Elena to take the dagger out.

      I will be extremely speculative (and probably totally wrong) but I will go with Bonnie.
      No exact reason … but I think it could be because of that necklace and I read somewhere, that Kat and Claire were seen on set together.

      Puh Elena won´t be harmed that´s for sure. I will laugh and be angry for a long time if Rebekah is the first vampire Elena will use her “Buffy/Warrior Princess” moves on and will win the fight.

      • They’ll create “wolfsbaned” depending on how much play the werewolves/hybrids get.

        I’ll honestly be surprised if they’re still trying to do something with that necklace. It’s weird that after it was such a big deal in 2.07, it got mentioned in 2.08, and then nothing in 2.09.

        I won’t know how I feel until/unless it plays out. I don’t care about Rebekah and I already think Elena’s ridiculous.

    • More important, who will take the dagger out of her?

      The first person that came to my mind is Tyler. This pobably won’t happen but I thought that he might take the dagger out of her because he’s sired to Klaus and wants to please him by reviving one of his siblings. Rebekah then goes after Elena – and then, right there, you would have the “almost catastrophic consequences” JP was talking about with regard to Tyler.

      • This could be it. It would certainly lengthen the amount of time it takes for Tyler to work back into the good graces of “our heroes.”

        If Tyler does this, I just know there’s a good chance Damon will go after him.

  3. I was just thinking about something, what were the consequences of Bonnie bringing Jeremy back to life? Was Jeremy seeing dead people a consequence or was that the original witch.
    I’m confused on that.

    The only time I’ve cried watching this show was 3×07 when Grams grabs Bonnie hand and the music kicks in prefect song for the prefect moment. I was already crying when Anna and Pearl showed up on screen. I didn’t believe it like everyone else because Anna NEVER mentioned Pearl the whole season. Katherine even brought her up but not Anna.

    I’ve never cried when a character has died I’m so cold-hearted. But Rose’s death was beautiful the whole dream sequence. Jenna’s speech about not wanting Jeremy and Elena was good but not enough to produce tears.

    Nothing JP mentioned really did anything for me. That’s not surprising I never see the things see wants me too.

    • I’m not sure. They seemed to have kind of dropped that? The main consequence seems to be that Bonnie doing the spell (and they keep confusing this. Bonnie didn’t do the spell. Her ancestors did) created a door (for Jeremy’s soul to come back) and the OG witch kept it cracked and sent Vicky and Anna threw (though Anna didn’t know the OG witch, so I don’t get it). I don’t know where Jeremy actually seeing the ghosts comes into play. That’s why I said they kind of dropped it. It’s like it was good enough to get the story going but once they were able to bring in their ghosts, they forgot about the WHY.

  4. I can’t say for sure what they think qualifies as a main character. My money’s on either Matt or Alaric. I don’t know what Damon could possibly have to do with Matt and he and Alaric just made up. But those are my best guess. My other guess is maybe Liz? Would they really leave Caroline alone like that? I know Elena’s orphaned, but she’s Elena. It can’t be Carol because she’s the mayor.

    Watch it not be anyone from the main cast, but Rebekah hasn’t been on long enough to count. So it’s probably Rebekah *_____*.

    • I want it to be Alaric so bad. It would fit into the trend of Elena losing her “parents” and Damon losing people he confides in (Rose, Andi)

      Tyler doing something terrible that isn’t actually all that terrible, like last time, is going to be so lame.

  5. It’s Tyler. Think about it it’s what he does he’ll do something bad than leave town. When he gets back all will be forgiven. I’ll be surprised if it’s not him.

    • I’ll be surprised if they take Caroline’s love interest away. I feel like the leaving will be permanent. Otherwise why spoil it and why emphasize that it’s a regular character?

  6. Lol nobody wants to speculate on who will kiss after the hiatus?
    Yeh. It´s probably obvious who it will be. But I think it will be in a dream of Elena.

    To the second part … I really liked Emily´s theory about Tyler and I think it will be Tyler. I heard Michael was the last weeks in LA and I don´t think that they would shoot there, especially if every other actor/actress is in Atlanta.
    If Tyler will be the person who will leave MF then the writers treat him practically like Bonnie. Something happens with your character … you leave MF for two or three episodes in a row.

    But then I read some speculation in the FF spoiler thread … and there were some people who thought it could be Elena … because of a possible kiss between her and Damon and she would run away from her feelings and go on the roadtrip with Bonnie.
    And after I read that I wanted to rage, because if the roadtrip will about this and Bonnie having to talk about that crap with Elena I will probably light my pc on fire.

    • It´s probably obvious who it will be. But I think it will be in a dream of Elena.

      I’m probably naive but I don’t think it’s them. At least not outside of a dream. Please, not another dream sequence to provide ship tease! I’d rather have it be the real thing. But I guess they’ll save that for the season finale.

      because of a possible kiss between her and Damon and she would run away from her feelings and go on the roadtrip with Bonnie.

      Omg. No. Just no.

    • Lol nobody wants to speculate on who will kiss after the hiatus?

      Ugh. It’s just so not interesting. I’m betting on Forwood though. Delena is too soon especially since Damon’s supposed to be having second thoughts. And call me pessimistic, but I don’t think these spoiler people would talk about anything romantic that happens to Bonnie making them swoon.

      • All Forwood does is kiss, why would that be EPIC? It’s probably Stelena. I really don’t care who it is. I hate the word epic especially in relation to this show because nothing is ever epic.

        • Because the spoiler people think any couple the producers push is epic. You’re right though, it could be Stelena. If it is, this “anger” sure will have been short-lived *____*. Maybe it’ll be an angry kiss.

          I haven’t been able to stand the word epic in relation to this show since season 1.

        • I don´t think it will be Stelena, because Kristen said “Confession: I squealed a little when I heard about it” … and after what she wrote about “The Last Dance” and some post of SE-fans about her I think she is clearly Team Delena.
          But who knows.

          Thank you Emily for reminding me about that dream shipper tease … had forgotten about it for a minute (or two)

  7. I, too, think that it will be Tyler. First he does something that has almost catastrophic consequences, then he leaves town – I could see that happening. Again.

    I don’t think it will be Alaric because it looks like he will stay in Mystic Falls and keep interacting with Mary Fell for several episodes. (Sorry, Susan.) And I don’t think the writers care enough about Matt to think of a reason for him to leave town and have him make a dramatic exit. Idk. I can see them having Matt hang around the periphery of the action for the rest of the season. Plus, there is a BTS picture of Matt and Caroline all dressed up, which indicates that it is from shooting ep 14. So it seems that Matt will be still around by then.

    Btw, I just read the second article linked to this post (the one from Zap2it) and just have to bring up one comment made by JP with regard to Damon and Klaus:
    “Klaus isn’t ruled by love the way that Damon, even in his darkest moments, is ruled by love. Love is Damon’s achilles heel. For Klaus, his achilles heel is his fury, his rage at having been unloved or not properly loved,” Julie says. “Every time he gets a moment where we can see his vulnerability, the very act of him feeling vulnerable triggers that rage. […]”
    So, I guess this is the writers’ explanation for why we should be rooting for Damon and regard Klaus as evil. Okayyy, then. And: Fury is Klaus’ achilles heel? I don’t get it. I don’t get the last sentence either. Have we actually seen this?

    • “Every time he gets a moment where we can see his vulnerability, the very act of him feeling vulnerable triggers that rage. […]“

      Wasn’t this Damon too? Like in the Tanner murder situation I described above? And when have we actually seen Klaus vulnerable and then get angry? I have only seen him angry when he is left alone or betrayed – Rebekah wanting to leave with Stefan, discovering Stefan was keeping Elena from him and Katherine escaping

      • Wasn’t this Damon too?

        Yes! That comment reminded me of Damon and how he usually lashes out when he feels vulnerable. But Klaus? I have no idea. He was vulnerable in the 20s flashbacks. You know, when Stefan gave him that weird pep talk about being a king. But there was no rage on Klaus’ part?! I don’t get it.

        • Lol. I am feeling crazy for even attempting to make sense of this show. I am chatting with my former fandom friend right now. She watched the first few eps of this season recently and she was like, the show now has dream logic – it is a nightmare version of itself. Lol

          • No, he just had a sullen expression on his face.

            I guess the writers count the 3 scenes you mentioned earlier & Klaus throwing a tantrum when his first hybrid experiments failed as examples of “the very act of him feeling vulnerable trigger[ing] that rage”. But, like you, I don’t think that’s the case in these scenes. There’s always more to it than Klaus feeling vulnerable and getting furious because of it. Like you said, he gets mad because he feels betrayed, etc. Ugh, I should stop trying to make sense of it.

            • Klaus also expressed fear in front of Maddox. That is being vulnerable, right? He gets angry when people in his life aren’t focused on him, right? He gets angry when their loyalties are divided or they try to leave. He was super happy with Stefan after (he thought) Stefan proved his loyalty to him by saving his life. I can buy him being mad about that. He *wants* Stefan’s loyalty but Stefan keeps pissing him off by repeatedly faking him out. OTOH, he now has an entire army of people focused on him so…

              • He gets angry when people in his life aren’t focused on him, right? He gets angry when their loyalties are divided or they try to leave. He was super happy with Stefan after (he thought) Stefan proved his loyalty to him by saving his life.

                Yes, yes and yes. I would have bought it more if JP had said that Klaus’ achilles heel is being all too willing to believe that someone he’s interested in (read, Stefan — and, I guess, Rebekah, although the show hasn’t focused on that a lot) is really on his side/loyal to him/wants to be friends with him. Like, half of the time Stefan didn’t even pretend that he liked Klaus/was loyal to him, Klaus just assumed it.

                • I would have bought it more if JP had said that Klaus’ achilles heel is being all too willing to believe that someone he’s interested in

                  The same thing happened with Gloria. He was so convinced that she would help him. He has all these minions now but, I bet, he will be dissatisfied with them. I think he wants people to want to be loyal to him. However, he doesn’t seem to care about these people individually. After all, he didn’t give a damn when Maddox and Greta died. This reminds me of that line Damon said to Stefan during the Blood arc. IIRC, it went something like, I still hate everyone but I love that they love me (totally paraphrasing). Well, now I am thinking Klaus is like Damon. Previously, I thought he was more like Stefan.

                  Btw, did you guys know that the CW shut down their forums? I just found out. Whyyyy? Why are they making it harder for me to lurk on diff fandoms? That is like half the enjoyment I get from tv.

                    • It is not temporary and they gave the people there only about a day’s noticed. On top of that, they wouldn’t let people link to other forums where they could meet up. A lot of people decided to meet up at the old WB forums but that got shut down soon after as well. No reasons were given for either action. They want all discussion of the shows to moved to facebook and Twitter but I am sure that was happening already to some degree.

                      My wild conspiracy theory is that they want you to talk to them and not each other. They kinda just want you to help them with market research and not influence each other with any bad opinions of the shows. Either that or they don’t understand how fan communities/forums work and they think that social media is the way to go. But I doubt that many people are going to give their real opinions of shows or indulge in fannish behavior on Facebook where all their family and friends can see.

                    • Yeah, I don’t think you can talk to people on Facebook like you can in a thread, even if you create a Facebook community. I don’t belong to any Facebook communities, so maybe I’m wrong.

                    • It just occurred to me that Facebook is probably more useful in spreading word about their shows. It is probably a smart move to concentrate their efforts there.

                    • Along the same lines, the Dungeon section of vampire-diaries.net is shut down for the holidays and might be shutdown forever. We are welcome to express our views in the regular threads as long as we are “civil”. Lol. We can’t have dissent. Can we? That will be too upsetting 😥 ROFL

                    • But the Dungeon was so entertaining! Come on. Fandom drama is the only entertaining thing about the show now. It is the kind of thing that keeps me watching a show long after I lose all interest in it. I mean, the Chlois drama in Smallville fandom kept me watching that show YEARS after I stopped giving a damn about any of the characters. I guess what I am saying is – What about me and what I want? I want my internet reality show. Wah Wah Wah (Damonifying myself. 😥 I am so misunderstood 😛 ) American Horror Story fandom drama is currently feeding the black hole inside my soul.

                      Btw Re: character who is going to leave or die – I am with everyone who thinks it is Matt. They failed to make a place for him in the show. They’ve neglected all of his relationships and gave him zero importance to the plot for an ENTIRE season. I like him but what is he even doing here? I still maintain that Alaric has no place in the show either but I never get to have nice things

                      I thought maybe I could find my mother, or maybe she’s moved on and I don’t know, because I don’t even know if there’s anywhere to move on to. As we were writing that scene — in other words, I don’t know if there’s heaven, I don’t know if there’s peace — I got struck with such a sense of pain and loss.

                      I finally got myself to read parts of that article. First of all, I am really glad that the Jeremy/Anna madness is done. Second, I found the above passage interesting. JP basically got weepy because she was thinking of her own mother. I don’t think she did a good job translating that on to Anna’s journey this time around. She did a good job of it the first time Anna was around but, this time, it is like there was a story going on inside her own head and she decided to only show us the ending of that story. I really liked Anna and Jeremy/Anna the first time. I was pissed when they killed her off but I did not enjoy her this time around. This goes along with something a friend of mine told me about the show last season. She felt like it was a bunch of disconnected climaxes

                    • What about me and what I want?

                      Lol. I just thought it was weird that there is a rule that says no bashing and then a space is created specifically for bashing. I thought it was unnecessary and it made me feel like people (not all of them, obviously) couldn’t deal with dissenting opinions. I mean there was even a rule for the dungeon that said you couldn’t disagree. Eh.

                      They’ve neglected all of his relationships

                      This. For a non-powered character like Matt (and Jeremy and Alaric, but especially Matt) the things to take advantage of are his various relationships. But they haven’t done that. They’ve glossed over everything.

                      Are you sure she was talking about her own mother? I thought she was just repeating what Anna said to Jeremy in the scene in 3.07.

                    • Oh yeah, you are right. I was wondering where all that emotion came from. I saw none of that onscreen so the only other place I could of was JP’s own life. She made it seem like Anna was talking about her mother the entire time. Meh, I zoned out during large parts of this season so I guess I missed it.

                    • American Horror Story fandom drama is currently feeding the black hole inside my soul.

                      Let me guess: Tate/Violet shipping? Stuff like that scares me.

                      She felt like it was a bunch of disconnected climaxes

                      So true. When it comes to S3 (and especially the trio) you could also say it’s a bunch of disconnected dramatic declarations.

    • then he leaves town – I could see that happening. Again.

      Was Tyler leaving the first time spoiled?

      Have we actually seen this?

      No. We’ve never seen Klaus use anger as a defense mechanism. Like you and Susan said, this is more Damon. We saw that fury is not Klaus’ achilles heel because Mikael was trying to piss him off and it.did.not.work. Oy.

      • Yeah, I don’t think they spoiled it. From what I remember they only said that the Caroline/Tyler would go to a “very dark place”, which lead a lot of fans to believe that one of them would die. But I think it became obvious pretty soon that Tyler was going to leave because he wasn’t mentioned in the episode summaries that came out after “Crying Wolf”.

        You bring up a vey good example of how we were actually shown that fury is not Klaus’ achilles heel. Lol, this show! I feel like the writers are only introducing this ‘fury as Klaus’ achilles heel’ business in order to tell us that, by antagonizing Klaus, Stefan is essentially doing the right thing. Whatever.

        • Yeah, and any retaliation from Klaus won’t be Stefan’s fault at all because it’s Klaus who can’t control his fury. Ugh.

          Forwood did not become dark. Please. It could’ve, but Caroline got over everything.

        • American Horror Story fandom drama is currently feeding the black hole inside my soul.

          Let me guess: Tate/Violet shipping? Stuff like that scares me.

          This is reply to the discussion above. I am replying here because that thread got so narrow.

          I think that shipping Salvatore/(Elena, Bonnie or Caroline or any woman who is not a complete monster) is worse than Violet/Tate shipping. AHS doesn’t woobify Tate to the extent that TVD woobifies every.single.monster. It is boring and just a way to get around writing fully fleshed characters. I mean, why write a story about a group of people or town embracing a couple of monsters if you can just show us 4564 shots of them teary eyed. Constantly bringing in bigger bads to justify not exploring anything is lazy. TVD is 100% on board with the woobification so it feels like I am in an echo chamber filled with people who are screaming things like “Rape is so fun! I want to be treated like Caroline too!” With AHS, I feel like I am outside the echo chamber alongside the show and watching these people at a distance. It is possible that AHS is still highly offensive but it hasn’t triggered me in any way. TVD and Smallville (they messed with Superman!) still remain the only two tv shows that have legit made me angry.

          AHS is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but one of the things I like about it is how they set up the events leading up to a “shocking” moment and the moments after that. Like, when Addie died, the terrifying moment wasn’t the actual car accident for me. It was the moment when she and Constance are giggling about the normal!face mask on her bed. And then, the later when Constance tried to pull her into the house before she died? That was HORRIFYING! I was like, “Quick! Dieeee” They do a good job of doing emotional shocks right alongside “plot shocks” for lack of a better term. If there are no emotional shocks, what is the point?

          Anyway, back to Tate. While Damon (and Klaus and Stefan) is completely woobified and is pretty cartoony now, Tate feels more like a person. Well, all the characters are archetypes but the show treats them like individuals who other people know as individuals? Tate is presented in the same way as characters that are meant for woobification. I think it’s natural for the audience to woobify him in the beginning because the show was playing with the idea of whether he is a monster or not much like early TVD did with the Salvatores. He is also the love interest for probably the most relatable character on the show. But then the show makes that a joke by making it really really hard to woobify him. And it gets harder and harder for Violet to woobify him. I love how the show keeps making the people closest to him ask why he would do something like that, and being legit horrified but wanting to find a way to love him anyway. The show refuses to say he is anything but a monster and insists that his brutality is senseless, regardless. The show is like, he is a MONSTER and it’s *sad* that they love him.

          Also, the show gives voice to a lot of his victims’ horror/pain even while going deep into his POV. The pain and confusion of his rape victim is given lots of attention. TVD doesn’t even acknowledge that there has ever been any rape. AHS is also a supernatural show so they could have dodged the topic too and a large portion of the audience would have made excuses for them on the grounds that it is a fantasy show. Tate’s murder spree is also shown in great detail and largely from the POV of his victims. It was REALLY HORRIFYING and the show makes sure that you are rooting for his victims in that scene. When is the last time the Salvatores’ victims were treated like real people? Vicki? Vicki’s ghost didn’t have anything to say to the Salvatores while Tate’s victims’ ghosts chased him and screamed their pain at him.

          Tate is in real pain; he is a *person* who affects other *persons* and is affected by other *persons*; And he is a monster. With Damon (and Stefan) these days, I feel like it is – he is in “pain”; he is an unreal thing that doesn’t affect anyone; And he is an overgrown infant.

          I hope some of that rambling made sense. I found the contrast interesting because they are the same type of character like I mentioned before. Tate even thinks of himself as the hero to certain women in his life which predictably leads to disastrous consequences for everyone.

          I totally get it if you want to delete it all Alta. It is soooo off topic. I guess I wanted to say that all woobies are not created equal.

          • I’m not deleting it. I started AHS and stalled on episode 2, and then I got spoiled on tumblr beyond reason. *Sigh.* I also read a quote from one of the producers that seemed to be apologizing for Tate. But then I read the whole quote, and it essentially said that Tate was a monster that really shouldn’t be sympathized with over anyone else. Maybe I’ll eventually get back into the show.

            • Next season is going to be completely different according to the producers so you may not have to go back and watch season one. But who knows if it is actually going to work out that way. I think they want every season to be about a different kind of horror story. This season was about a haunted house so next season is going to be about something else. I think they even said that only 1-2 of the old characters are coming back. What is more bizarre is that some of the actors might come back as different characters. LOL. I love it.

              I also read a quote from one of the producers that seemed to be apologizing for Tate. But then I read the whole quote, and it essentially said that Tate was a monster that really shouldn’t be sympathized with over anyone else.

              I saw that mini drama on tumblr. It was hilarious. That OP was something else. Of course, it doesn’t help that Ryan Murphy has somehow gained a really bad reputation so everyone is quick to believe anything negative about him.

              • Yeah, I heard most of the characters would be leaving. The actors playing different characters could be very interesting.

                Yeah, he’s one of the producers on Glee and looking at my dash on Tuesdays, some of the fans are not happy. Lol.

  8. So episode 11 is going to be about Caroline. JP is saying it’s going to be a massive episode for everyone which means it most certainly won’t be. We’ve already seen many times over that they have trouble doing all of these characters justice. The only thing I believe them on is that it’ll be a big episode for Caroline.

    Where is Magali? Chances are looking good Tyler boy will be the highlight of Caro’s birthday, gurl. Lol.

    As for the Trio. Next. I mean….ugh. Damon’s going to try to beat the truth out of Stefan. And the Fandom will get on Damon about being a super unappreciative brother. And 6 episodes later these two will be calling each other brother every line. Next.

    Rebekah’s going to be pissed at everyone. I’m still not holding my breath, but I think chances are better they’ll do her anger at Elena more justice than they will her anger at Klaus. How much do you guys want to bet that Klaus’ wishes will curb Rebekah’s anger at Elena and she’ll fall back at his request?

    I wonder if the character with the bleak future is the same one who is leaving. It’s hard to get worried because the characters have so many insurances. Especially the male ones with Jer and Alaric having those rings of not dying.

  9. I really can’t stand the Julie Plec “laugh” can I just say that. She’s so proud of herself and the crap that they’ve done no Julie no. She laughs every time, does she know what a joke her show is is that why she’s laughing.

  10. I thought about the sl of Bonnie and her mom.
    We now know that she gave up on Bonnie and her powers a long time ago … and I read some fanfic awhile ago in which her mother still used her powers but she used it to protect Bonnie because she had a vision when Bonnie was a kid and she wanted to stop for that vision to come true and that made me speculate.
    Perhaps (and now I will make probably again a totally wrong speculation) Abby had a vision when Bonnie was a kid that she would kill her own daughter with her powers (don´t know why, perhaps Bonnie went on the dark side or something like that) but she didn´t want to harm her daughter and that is why gave up on her powers but at the same time didn´t want to be with Bonnie because she thought she could be tempted to go back in witch mode if something happens.

    • That’s an interesting theory. It could aslo be that she did something to the dad. There has to be a reason he doesn’t talk about magic anymore. Maybe Abby went overboard with her powers. Sort of an extreme version of Bonnie using her power on Jeremy to knock him out.

      • It could aslo be that she did something to the dad. There has to be a reason he doesn’t talk about magic anymore. Maybe Abby went overboard with her powers.

        It would explain a lot and be a potentially compelling story about a witch’s power and how far it should go vs. how far it can go and how to navigate the space in between. Because balance is supposed to be a huge part of what a witch’s power is for, but the power that Bonnie and Abby and other witches possess has a reach beyond maintaining balance and other than the grimoires there isn’t much in the way of guidance, which is primarily a problem of the show, but could be resolved with them doing something amazing with this Abby plot.

        I don’t know why I’m talking myself into a dream of brilliance with this storyline, but my hopes are what they are.

        • And there’s also the fact that we haven’t seen any witch beside Bonnie even attempt to maintain the balance. Lucy was concentrated on getting out from under Katherine, Bree wanted revenge, Jonas and Luka wanted Greta back, Greta was helping an Original gain power, and Gloria was doing her own thing. And then there was Esther. Actually, there was another witch who spoke about honoring the spirits: Ayana. It’s good that not all of the witches are concerned with maintaining the balance; they’re not white hats. But the thing is this notion of maintaining the balance came from Elijah, a vamp. I’d like to hear two witches laying it all out.

  11. This show has almost made me cry on three occasions: 1) When Grams died. 2) Matt/Vicki’s scene in the episode before Ghost World and 3) Bonnie/Grams in Ghost World.

    None of the scenes she mentioned really did much for me. And I think she has some fan-girl rose-colored glasses on for most of them.

    Really? Damon is going to beat the truth from Stefan? Their plan wasn’t that hot to begin with. And I’m still incredibly pissed that no one has considered the possibility that Klaus compelled Stefan to protect him at all cost. He didn’t, but these idiots don’t know that. Remember when Damon asked Katherine the terms of Klaus’s compulsion and she couldn’t remember? The writers forget about things like that. Anyway, I’m just bored by the idea that the writers are going to make the “Stefan saved Klaus to protect Damon” reveal overdrawn and melodramatic. Especially since they’ve already told us, as viewers, why he did it. Instead of keeping that a secret in order to make the reveal actually important.

    So Klaus is still going to be making hybrids? That’s the only reason I can think of for him to not want Elena harmed. If Klaus kills Rebekah to protect Elena…whatever. So much about this storylines on this show bore me. The writers aren’t going to allow Rebekah to be “badass” or get any revenge. So I don’t see the point really.

    I hope Matt ends up leaving. If only so the writers will stop pretending they have an interest in him and shoving him into plots where he doesn’t really belong. Though Damon and Matt have had like one scene. So I’m not sure that would work. Then again, someone is leaving Mystic Falls, but a departure from the show would actually be bigger news than that.

    • Especially since they’ve already told us, as viewers, why he did it. Instead of keeping that a secret in order to make the reveal actually important.

      This.

      I think at this point they’re only keeping the Klaus Is Making Hybrids thing to make it seem like Klaus still has a plan, to give him something to do. He doesn’t have a plan, because the producers haven’t bothered to give him an achievable goal. I mean in the grand scheme of things, considering how long Klaus has been alive, why is he bothering with these people? You have a doppelganger, some young vampires, a witch (okay, who’s pretty competent), and that’s pretty much it. Why bother?

      I hope Matt ends up leaving. If only so the writers will stop pretending they have an interest in him and shoving him into plots where he doesn’t really belong.

      Yes.

  12. Everyone, I know the synopsis for 3.11 is out but I’m not posting it (and I don’t want it posted) in this thread since episode 11 is going to have it’s speculation post soon.

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