It started out fine, and then it got good, and then….

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196 thoughts on “It started out fine, and then it got good, and then….

  1. I was so into Stefan saving Klaus in order to save himself and then their lover’s quarrel stare down and then the show made it about Damon and I just do not care. I don’t get what the point of Stefan getting compelled was. Anyway, I’m going to read the upcoming whatever between Stefan and Klaus as an overextended lover’s quarrel because, that is honestly what it is.

    Remember when Bonnie was the one who was going to come between them? Remember that?

    Mikael died way too easy. Some vampire hunter, he couldn’t even tell he had Katherine. Um…why did he call Klaus impulsive when Klaus was such a simple bitch in the flashbacks?

    Damon and Elena were actually ridiculously over dramatic in their final scene. More dramatic than last week and that is saying something.

    Somewhere Paul Wesley is weeping.

    • Remember when Bonnie was the one who was going to come between them? Remember that?

      I completely forgot about that. I’m like the producers.

      Mikael died way too easy. Some vampire hunter, he couldn’t even tell he had Katherine. Um…why did he call Klaus impulsive when Klaus was such a simple bitch in the flashbacks?

      Olu, Klaus couldn’t tell that was Katherine. They kept talking about how everyone would be doomed if Mikael was wakened. So of course they went nowhere with it. These people are master storytellers.

      Damon’s anger was ott. Since when was he that invested in killing Klaus? At one point it looked like he had tears in his eyes. When did Elena become okay with letting Stefan go? Just last week she was saying Damon would be the one to save him.

      Lol.

      • I only remembered it because there are Klefonnie shippers on the Klefan tag and that was always coming up.

        Yeah, but Klaus has already been established as not that bright. Unless we’re meant to assume that he knew that his father didn’t know, but that sentence was complicated enough to write, let alone expect the writers to execute it.

        Everyone was doomed when Mikael was awakened! Rebekah is in a cellar and Damon cried!

        He’s never been invested in killing Klaus. In episode 3, he offered himself to Klaus in exchange for Stefan. Elena became okay because they were both incredibly heart broken over their plan failing. I’m surprised they didn’t kiss.

        Who even is Katherine anymore?

        • Yeah, but Klaus has already been established as not that bright. Unless we’re meant to assume that he knew that his father didn’t know, but that sentence was complicated enough to write, let alone expect the writers to execute it.

          Lmao. All I could think was, “No wonder it took him so long to find her.”

          Lol.

          I’m surprised they didn’t kiss too.

          Who the hell knows. Now her humanity sometimes creeps out and she lets it. Remember when the big thing in Katerina was connecting Katherine to her humanity?

          • Remember when the big thing in Katerina was connecting Katherine to her humanity?
            Back when her humanity was tied to her family and not to Elena or the Salvatores. When did she start feeling her humanity again, anyway?

            I can feel a retcon coming on when it comes to Stefan and Katherine and what she did to him and what not. He seemed resigned when she said she loved him. Which is the opposite of his previous reactions.

            • When Stefan went evil probably. She said she likes the old him better. I feel certain she once said she likes the meaner Stefan better. I know she definitely said something like that to Damon (about how human!Damon was a bore). It might have been in The Return that she said it to Stefan.

              In that scene before Katherine continued talking, I actually wanted to get together. First time.

              • She said something like “You got meaner. I like it.” Anyway, old!Stefan, the one she now likes was, in large part, a product of her compulsion.

                And I guess it’s getting swept under the rug that Lexi tortured Stefan into a “good” person.

                In that scene before Katherine continued talking, I actually wanted to get together. First time.

                I would have been for it until she kept on talking too. In fact, I was hoping that was the point. She was finally getting what she wanted from him. How often has he even voluntarily been alone with her? One would figure that she would take advantage.

                • They just kept pish-poshing the fact that Stefan was compelled in this episode. Even Elena. Ugh.

                  I might be creating new head!canon where Stefan goes off with Katherine and gets with her. I need to marinate on whether or not I want to commit to that.

                  • Why didn’t Damon assume that Stefan had been compelled to protect Klaus as well? I don’t get the point of him being compelled anymore.

                    I might be creating new head!canon where Stefan goes off with Katherine and gets with her. I need to marinate on whether or not I want to commit to that.

                    That would have worked and taken them out of town for at least three episodes.

                    • Good point. He told him he was free, but he didn’t tell him to turn his switch back on. I’m sure we’re meant to think he turned it on though. See, you only need to be specific in terms of compulsion when it’s convenient.

                  • I might be creating new head!canon where Stefan goes off with Katherine and gets with her. I need to marinate on whether or not I want to commit to that.

                    I’m already there!

  2. I forgot to say to mention that Bonnie was amazing. I’m glad I didn’t put her in the comment with all my complaints because she was the most flawless.

    And I’m really happy Caroline didn’t just take Tyler back, at his word, because he was gross throughout the episode, but especially in their final scene. Fandom is probably going to start tearing her apart though.

    • She was really good with the little she had.

      Me too. Though I still don’t care about that ship. I did like learning why Tyler was so okay with being sired. I wonder if Fandom will tear her apart or make excuses for Tyler while ignoring how he treated her (and reacted to her anger).

  3. As ridiculous as it is, this episode only made me ship Klaus/Stefan more, as Klaus is about to go off the deep end into true villainy because 1) his family (cause that’s what the show is about) and 2) he’s truly lost his best friend/brother/lover. Was it just me or did he sound like he was expecting Stefan to be calling with cheerful news about latte dates or something?

    Where was Stefan going with Katherine? It seemed like she was just dropping him off by the side of the road. What was his plan if he was just leaving? And why did Stefan know where Klaus’s family was anyway? Did he move those bodies by himself?

    • Lol. I wanted them to kiss in the scene where Klaus was granting him his freedom. I’m not sure how much Paul Wesley is weeping. While he might recognize that the story sucks and does nothing for his character, he might think it’s better than just being Elena’s boyfriend.

      Yeah, it looked like she was just going to drop him off. I don’t know how he’d find the bodies. Maybe Klaus always parks in the same place when he comes to MF. But doesn’t he have people guarding those coffins? Why would they let Stefan through?

      • They were making eyes at each other. With a better storyline behind it, I can almost imagine that the scene was bittersweet. You have a point. It is better than all that apologizing/”I’m the good brother” he did last year. If only they would remove the words “brother” and “humanity” from his dialogue.

        Maybe he gave Stefan access to where he kept the bodies? Maybe Stefan killed all of his guards? The latter makes slightly more sense. And Klaus parking in the same spot. I don’t imagine there are many places to park a semi in Mystic Falls.

  4. The last five mins of this show was just so ridiculous there are no words. DE, the pieces of the puzzle that were put together my Katherine and Stefan so bad.

    Did they explain how Damon would die if Klaus died because I may have tuned that out. I was thinking than just let him(Damon) die and what happened to the Katherine who said “better you die than I” or who was going to let Damon die so she could get out of the tomb, she picked Stefan than so why didn’t she pick herself and Stefan tonight. She would be free after 500yrs and Stefan would be free and Damon would be dead last season she did not care about Damon dying.

    Bonnie was amazing I loved her putting Tyler and Damon down it was great. She looked great.

    I think Joseph Morgan is a good actor. But Klaus I can’t, I don’t get him.
    So did they just kill all the hybrids in one episode except for Tyler. They killed Mikeal so yeah what a great vampire hunter he was.
    Klaus’ army is not really that scary, I guess they’re like him in that regard. They’re really easy to kill what is so scary about him having a hybrid army. What is so scary about Klaus existing he doesn’t do anything. His hybrids are pathetic.

    • Did they explain how Damon would die if Klaus died because I may have tuned that out. I was thinking than just let him(Damon) die and what happened to the Katherine who said “better you die than I” or who was going to let Damon die so she could get out of the tomb, she picked Stefan than so why didn’t she pick herself and Stefan tonight. She would be free after 500yrs and Stefan would be free and Damon would be dead last season she did not care about Damon dying.

      I’m pretty sure it was something as trivial as one of Klaus’ Hybrids killing him. Nevermind the fact that Mikael then compelled all the Hybrids.

      Stefan didn’t let Damon die when the possibility that he would become a Ripper in saving him, thereby endangering many people was real, so why would he put anyone else first now?

      Katherine couldn’t pick herself tonight because now she’s always loved Damon, so that comes first.

      The Hybrids aren’t dead. They got uncompelled when Mikael died.

      Klaus’ army is not really that scary, I guess they’re like him in that regard.

      Lol.

  5. What was Bonnie’s part of the plan? Damon said that she wasn’t “supposed” to mind whammy him. Was she supposed to take down the Hybrids?

    I don’t think I can watch this show anymore. I am getting so much secondhand embarrassment from it. It is unbearable. Can they at least stop saying “humanity” 2345 times an ep? Do they even know what that word means?

    • This was actually a decent ep but I was still cringing through most of it. I didn’t have this reaction in season one. Maybe I’ve matured since then. I guess a person can change a lot in …..2 years. Yeah, let’s go with that.

      • These were basically my feelings until the last five minutes. I hated the last five minutes.

        Season one is still fun. Or maybe I just put on rose-colored glasses whenever I conduct my rewatch.

        • I am rewatching now because I think I missed a lot. I looked away from the screen a few times. For example, the Rebekah high school dance bit. Elena actually saved the day there. I was going to put hot pokers in my ears if Rebekah didn’t die right then.

        • Season one is still fun. Or maybe I just put on rose-colored glasses whenever I conduct my rewatch.

          They completely ruined Damon for me. I think that is one of my big issues with the show. He is a huge part of the show and I am just not interested.

    • I guess she was supposed to take Tyler down. So I don’t know why Damon was then trying to kill Tyler. And of course it bugs me that she barely knew what was going on. “Oh my God, is that the dagger?” Ugh.

    • LOL @ the obsession with “humanity.” And when the most hypocritical and in fact, inhumane character bleat about it constantly, it does my head in.

  6. Did they explain how Damon would die if Klaus died because I may have tuned that out.

    Apparently, Klaus who didn’t think to compel his Hybrids, did think to compel them to kill Damon…or something. I stopped paying attention because I was annoyed that Stefan saving Klaus was about Damon and not himself.

    last season she did not care about Damon dying.

    EXACTLY! In Katherine’s plans last season, there were plenty of opportunities for Damon to die and she didn’t care. Now she does. Now she cares so much that she puts herself in danger? It would have made more sense for Klaus to threaten Stefan.

    I think they gassed the Hybrids. Not killed them. Except for that one Hybrid that Damon killed. Which means that Klaus would be dead if they through him a birthday party and then violated his personal space.

  7. So Damon killed a hybrid by riping out his heart. The hybrids are just like the werewolves from last season. They will lose in a fight against a older vampire. They just aren’t slaves to the moon and can bite vampires at anytime to kill them as long as they don’t get they’re hearts riped out in the process. That’s what a hybrid is.

    • Yup. When that happened I wanted to cry. They spent all of last season trying to prevent the creation of a race whose sole advantage over an older vampire can easily be removed if the older vampire bites the hybrid and drinks his or her blood after getting a wolf bite.

      • They spent all of last season trying to prevent the creation of a race whose sole advantage over an older vampire can easily be removed if the older vampire bites the hybrid and drinks his or her blood after getting a wolf bite.

        OMG! I am dying. LOL. Everything was so DRAMATIC!!!. I completely missed that.

  8. How did Damon miss Klaus’ heart? wasn’t he the one showing Elena where to stab a vampire, I guess he doesn’t know either.

    I’m looking forward to Klaus being a proper villian the second half of the season and of coarse all the Bonnie stuff. With that being said I’m happy about this break.

    • He was sorta stabbing at Klaus blindly. And he had time to get at Klaus’s heart too. He definitely knew where Lexi’s heart was.

      I’m looking forward to Klaus being a proper villian the second half of the season and of coarse all the Bonnie stuff. With that being said I’m happy about this break.

      Word.

    • I don’t understand why Klaus didn’t burst into flame as soon as the dagger was in him. Unless he did and I’m forgetting.

      Also, after all of these years of running from Mikael, this is how Klaus kills him? It seems so pointless. Why was he so afraid? Why didn’t he ever decide to start chasing Mikael to get that dagger?

      • I don’t understand why Klaus didn’t burst into flame as soon as the dagger was in him. Unless he did and I’m forgetting.

        Yeah, wtf was that. I know I said I would watch the ep a few days ago but I got sidetracked. I finished rewatching a little while ago. Did they forget what show this is? Vampires down burst into flames here. Maybe it was a way to differentiate Originals from other vampires?? It looked like they just made up stuff for this one ep to get rid of the stake. Why did they even introduce it? Simply to show that an Original can be killed? Are there more out there? Maybe one of the “dead” Originals knows of the location of another stake.

        • Maybe one of the “dead” Originals knows of the location of another stake.

          Ugh.

          Isobel burst into flame, but she was being burned by the sun. If Mikael burst into flame, then Klaus should have too and then when Stefan took it out, the flames would go away (or maybe he should have kept burning. Now I can buy that a vamp might heal if a stake is taken out of them quick enough, but the oak stake is supposed to be special, ain’t it?). What they didn’t think about is the fact that they said an Original can be put down with a dagger dipped in white oak ash from the white oak tree. The same oak tree the stake was fashioned from. The same oak tree that caused Mikael to go up in flames. Why doesn’t the ash cause the other Originals to go up in flames?

          Ugh. All of this just means the producers still don’t have a way to kill Klaus. Think they’re even trying to come up with one? Or will they wait the episode before they kill him.

          • I think Damon was supposed to have missed? For whatever reason. So maybe it has to hit the heart for the flames to come.

            Why doesn’t the ash cause the other Originals to go up in flames?

            You mean the ash in general? My theory about the ash is that is doesn’t work unless it comes in contact with the blood and is combined with a lethal blow. The same way one wouldn’t be able to just through any ash at a vampire and hope for the best.

            • Then why the heck was he raving about how he “had him?”

              But they get stabbed. Elena stabbed Elijah in the gut with the knife and so did Alaric, and Klaus later did the same thing. All in the heart so that means they should have gotten blood.

              • Then why the heck was he raving about how he “had him?”

                Because him raving about how he missed would have made more sense, but probably would have forced him to admit that by missing he screwed up just enough that Stefan was able to save Klaus, making it clear that not locking Stefan up was another screw up on his part.

                Why didn’t Katherine just bring Elena in on the plan? That way she could have saved Damon, taken out the Hybrids and given Elena some blood so she didn’t die or better yet bring Caroline into the plan, don’t save Klaus, kill his Hybrids, with Mikael, and move on.

                • Why didn’t Katherine just bring Elena in on the plan?

                  The twisty twist hinged on Elena not being in on the plan. And Caroline couldn’t be in it because it was a ToD production.

          • I just realized you meant why the dagger doesn’t cause the other Originals to go up in flames. That’s because they didn’t want to waste their special effects budget when they could make this a storyline about families.

  9. That was so stupid. Stefan should have let Klaus die. Katherine shouldn’t have cared about Damon. The show should have ended with Katherine and Stefan in the car together without all the exposition.

    lol where was Jeremy? why was Matt there? Why did Damon attack Tyler? Why can’t they just rip out the heart of Klaus … Why do I bother with this show!

      • I had a thought yo. I really did, but I didn’t want to say anything.

        The Native people were skin walkers/werewolves the white people were vampires, the witches are black people (bespectacled with Ester and Maddox). I didn’t want to go there but when Tyler tuned I want it so badly. I wanted Bonnie and Tyler to be against the vampires. I wanted the Witches and Werewolves to be against the vampires. *shrugs* Since the show was painting Witches as subservient to vampires I wanted it so bad. But the weres weren’t being coded as POC. BUT NOW!

          • Sorry. :[ Do you think this means Tyler got his werewolf-izm from the Native Americas or that Europe has it’s own brand of Were/skinwalkers?

            Also do you think that the writers are trying to say that all of these supernatural beings originate from specific landmasses/continent? Like Africa is the magical land of witches, the Americas birthed Were’s and now vampires … What magical special thing comes from Europe or Asia or Australia?

            • I hate this entire story. I find it ridiculous that the American continent would be the only place that held werewolves.

              Also do you think that the writers are trying to say that all of these supernatural beings originate from specific landmasses/continent? Like Africa is the magical land of witches, the Americas birthed Were’s and now vampires

              I don’t think they’re trying to say this because I don’t think they thought this far.

  10. Okay, Elena stabbed Rebekah. Good for her. But what happened to Rebekah’s borderline supernatural instincts?

    Mikael, we hardly knew ye. Right from the beginning, I had this feeling that this SL was going to be very underwhelming. But wow, I certainly didn’t expect it to be that pointless. The writers are really having a hard time coming up with stuff to fill 22 episodes, don’t they?

    I think the Mikael/Klaus showdown was supposed to be a big deal and veeery emotional. Did not care. LOL at Klaus’ tears, though. What a villain.

    Sooo, Stefan turned his switch back on? I don’t really understand what we’re supposed to take from the ending. Stefan turned his humanity back on to save Damon?? But why now and not last episode when Damon was in more immediate danger? What is different now? Very anticlimactic, btw.

    • They gave us one episode to care about the Mikael/Klaus dynamic and the dynamic they created was weak and occurred in one of the most boring episodes of The Vampire Diaries ever. And then they killed Mikael and had Klaus cry and I’m not sure what we’re supposed to feel. Like, why should we care, for Klaus, now that Stefan has his family. The only person we know in one of those coffins is Elijah.

      Sooo, Stefan turned his switch back on? I don’t really understand what we’re supposed to take from the ending. Stefan turned his humanity back on to save Damon?? But why now and not last episode when Damon was in more immediate danger? What is different now? Very anticlimactic, btw.

      He did? I’m not sure what’s going on. The fact that Katherine, of all people, was able to convince him…I don’t understand it. His emotions are definitely back on? Because the show would never let anyone shut up about how easy it would be for him to turn them back on despite the compulsion, so I’m not really sure if that’s what we’re supposed to take away from the end of the episode. Especially since, if his emotions are back on, that ending was anti-climatic as hell. (Also goes to prove that the writers have no idea what to do with the storyline because if we’re supposed to see Stefan as a hero now, I’m going to need to hand the writer’s a dictionary.)

      • They thought their story was so tight that they could get us hooked and invested in one episode.

        Like, why should we care, for Klaus, now that Stefan has his family. The only person we know in one of those coffins is Elijah.

        Exactly. We literally have no idea what Klaus’ dynamic is like with the rest of his family. We don’t even know what they look like. Rebekah only talked about her, Klaus, and Elijah when she spoke of character traits.

        The fact that Katherine, of all people, was able to convince him

        There’s a thing going around making fun of Elena because she spent this whole time trying to get Stefan to turn his switch back on, and Katherine was able to do it in one episode. No, some people don’t know a bad story when they see it. Like, Katherine getting him to do it (if that’s what she did) isn’t a slam against Elena, it’s a slam against the entire story.

      • His emotions are definitely back on?

        I’m not completely sure. The show is sending mixed signals.

        On the one hand:
        – all this talk about somebody’s humanity getting in the way (and then it was Stefan’s, of course) – it sounded like it was supposed to be a really big deal and not just Stefan having a “human moment” (like in “Ordinary People”)
        – Stefan’s line “I can’t go back after what I’ve done” in the car

        On the other hand:
        – Didn’t Stefan also say sth like “I can’t let it fully in” in response to Katherine going on how a vampire’s humanity always finds a way back in?
        – I figured the show would be super obvious about Stefan getting his emotions back on. I was expecting lots of close-ups of PW’s face, the music going crazy at first and then a sad indie song playing in the background. You know, the show’s typical M.O.

        I’m confused.

        The fact that Katherine, of all people, was able to convince him…

        I know. The Stefan/Katherine shippers are super, super stoked right now. It’s like Christmas for them.

        • – I figured the show would be super obvious about Stefan getting his emotions back on. I was expecting lots of close-ups of PW’s face, the music going crazy at first and then a sad indie song playing in the background. You know, the show’s typical M.O.

          Lmao.

    • I totally forgot about Rebekha’s supernatural instincts. Like the producers. She really trusted Elena? My God. I mean I guess you could say her defenses were down due to learning the truth about Klaus and Mikael being back, but I feel that would be more reason for her to have her defenses up. She didn’t even fight.

      If they would just focus on the characters, all of the characters, and their dynamics with each other instead of trying to create stories by brining in new characters to “stir the pot,” they wouldn’t have this problem.

      But why now and not last episode when Damon was in more immediate danger? What is different now?

      Last episode, Stefan turning his humanity back on for Damon could not provide a twisty twist.

  11. So I watched it … and like you all said it was pretty good until the last five minutes.

    I´m still rolling on the floor because of two things
    1. Mikaels death … omg and here I thought he would be the new big bad for the other half of the season. These writers … he must have suck out some dumbness from Stefan as he drained him from his blood.
    And here I thought he would be connected to the sl with Bonnie´s mom.

    2. Elena staying at home – what were all these training sessions and blabla for if she stayed at home the whole time and didn´t even consider that her friends would be in danger when Klaus comes to town? And why didn´t she see that Stefan left or that Katherine came back? Was she crying in Damons bedroom about her killing Rebekah or something?

    Bonnie was flawless as always especially loved that scene between her and Elena and how mature she reacted. Kat´s cute faces during that scene make me love her even more – is this something that is in the script or does she all by herself think of using this kind of mimic?
    Was it only because of Bonnie´s speach that Elena wanted to dagger (is this even a word – they used it three times in this episode also vervained – is this the style of the people in Mystic Falls because of all the supernatural beings?).
    And of course I loved the Damon/Bonnie/Tyler scene … *Bamon shipper heart reanimated* (yeh I´m pathetic like that). Really loved that she can take two supernatural beings out at the same time now. I think she really learns to control her power more and more.
    That Caroline/Bonnie scene was too short. Need more of them together.

    Rebekah mourning over her first homecoming … please stop that was the first time I really wanted to gave Elena a pat on the back but then she ruins everything with her “care too much” – yeh you sure about that?
    But before that liked Rebekah telling her father what should have been told him long time ago.

    Didn´t care for Klaus crying and screaming scene but I have to confess that I was happy that he did win at least one time. But then it was screwed by Stefan taking his coffins.
    But did he really think, that after he resurrected his siblings the would fall into his arms and make a big party?

    I understand Tyler´s motivation with all this werewolf crap but I don´t understand him treating Caroline that way especially considering her past.
    But please don´t revisit this Matt/Caroline/Tyler triangle … half a season was enough of it and I thought Matt had closure with this.

    Katherine/Elena shenanigans – was it Katherine all the time also as Matt came to take Rebekah to the dance … because Nina sounded like Katherine in this scene. And at the party it was not surprising for me because that sounded like Katherine (I think Nina is doing a bad job with this doppelgänger swap this season) all the time. Why didn´t they recognize that she wasn´t a human? Oh I know the good old origal senses – not available.

    I really liked the thought of Stefan saving Klaus only for himself … and as Klaus de-compelled him I thought they would go together and throw a big party and have a happy eternal afterlife together. I was fooled.
    And I thought he only release Stefan from obeying him. Is the switch included in this? I didn´t think so.

    Hopefully Katherine stays away for a long long long time … because I don´t want to hear the words “humanity” or “care” out of her mouth ever again … I can´t even stand it at the moment out of somebody others mouth. Last episode and this were a overload on that departement.
    I cringed all the time.

    Damon/ Elena scene at the end … I really thought they would kiss and I really wanted them to (not because I ship them in any case) because I can´t stand all this heavy-handed dialogue crap and then them looking into eachothers eyes and blabla I can´t stand it anymore for real. But the writers won´t give me peace and will drag that out until I´m ready for pension.

    So now for the second half of season three. Do you think that now after the stake is burned they will go back to only a witch can kill Klaus or do they find another way to end him for real?

    So these thoughts aren´t really well-thought through or organized in any way … but neither are the scripts of the writers for TVD.

    • These writers … he must have suck out some dumbness from Stefan as he drained him from his blood.

      Lol.

      Elena staying at home – what were all these training sessions and blabla for if she stayed at home the whole time

      Exactly!!! I’m sick of the Katherine fake out. Let Elena take part in the plans so that she can get hurt. It should have been her that got stabbed. Katherine wasn’t needed for things to play out the way it did. See? Token girl power. They had her going around last episode talking about how she’s got this and mean girl power struggle, and they have her stab Rebekah, and you’re not supposed to notice that she wound up sitting down.

      is this something that is in the script or does she all by herself think of using this kind of mimic?

      I think that’s something she does herself. Like Ian’s bug eyes, only this is nuanced.

      Really loved that she can take two supernatural beings out at the same time now.

      You know someone complained about that, saying it was the return of over-powered Bonnie just because she took a Hybrid down? And they most likely didn’t say jack about the fact that Damon was able to rip a Hybrid’s heart out.

      Didn´t care for Klaus crying and screaming scene but I have to confess that I was happy that he did win at least one time.

      I was happy he won too.

      I understand Tyler´s motivation with all this werewolf crap but I don´t understand him treating Caroline that way especially considering her past.

      Same here.

      And I thought he only release Stefan from obeying him. Is the switch included in this? I didn´t think so.

      It shouldn’t be, but this is The Vampire Diaries.

      So these thoughts aren´t really well-thought through or organized in any way … but neither are the scripts of the writers for TVD.

      LOL!

      I haven no idea what the plan for second half is. I just know the things I’m looking forward to with Bonnie. I’m fully prepared to learn there’s yet another weapon that can kill an Original.

      • Exactly!!! I’m sick of the Katherine fake out. Let Elena take part in the plans so that she can get hurt. It should have been her that got stabbed. Katherine wasn’t needed for things to play out the way it did. See? Token girl power. They had her going around last episode talking about how she’s got this and mean girl power struggle, and they have her stab Rebekah, and you’re not supposed to notice that she wound up sitting down.

        Right. But you forget, that she mustn´t get hurt every other citizen of Mystic Falls can. You heard Damon say as he lay out the plan in the end again and also to Tyler as he said that he didn´t care if somebody dies.
        And they want to tell me that Elena cares the most. I can´t. She was scheming this plan over the head of her friends (how much did Bonnie know, Caroline didn´t know anything for sure)
        If she would reflect her mistakes and so on I think I could sympathize with her but this is not the way to make me like her. It´s too late for that.
        @Rebekah: and also in the most sinister kind of way in the back. Do you think they set all this parallels to Katherine to make it more and more obvious that she also can love both “like” Katherine did?

        I think that’s something she does herself. Like Ian’s bug eyes, only this is nuanced.

        Right nuanced. And I think it suits the character. I think it´s adorable. With Ian on the other hand it´s sometimes really creepy. But that suits his character too. The problem is he really uses it too much and to overdramatic.

        You know someone complained about that, saying it was the return of over-powered Bonnie just because she took a Hybrid down? And they most likely didn’t say jack about the fact that Damon was able to rip a Hybrid’s heart out.

        Really? This fandom is unbelievable. But on the other hand I didn´t expect any other.
        These Hybrids are useless and so not dangerous looking. Why should we be scared of them? The vampires should because they can bite them anytime … but Damon showed us how to handle them. It´s sad what kind of superior race is this?

        I was happy he won too.

        Yeh!!! At least one time in thousand years he is not a complete fail.
        Poor Klaus, nobody cares for you . He could join the club with Damon. There would be at least two members. They could care for each other.

        It shouldn’t be, but this is The Vampire Diaries.

        Yep, that´s a fact we shouldn´t forget.

        I’m fully prepared to learn there’s yet another weapon that can kill an Original.

        I had a thought that would suit the masterminds of TVD writers.
        I see a casting call for episode 15 or 17:
        Will – 22, shy and focused on his career, After the death of his brother Chad (3rd period Chad) and him getting his Doctor in Science specialization on botany he returns with an extraordinary discovery back to his hometown.
        (That would be my further sl for him: After years of research on an 1000 years old seed he found in amber he discovers that the seed belongs to a tree which only grew in his hometown and is believed to be extinct. But with a new technic he can grow this special tree. After returning to his town he opens up to his childhood sweetheart Elena about his grieving for his brother and in the end gives her a branch of this special tree because she listened to him and gave him comfort.
        Of course the special tree is the White Oak Tree and Elena will sit in her room until episode 20 to plane and sand an artistic stake out of it. In the end Stefan will drive it through Klaus heart and everyone in Mystic Falls is happy again. Oh I forgot Will will die in the process of it. Season Finale.)

        • how much did Bonnie know

          Bonnie didn’t even know they had the dagger. She didn’t even know just how they were planning to kill Klaus.

          I see a casting call for episode 15 or 17:
          Will – 22, shy and focused on his career, After the death of his brother Chad (3rd period Chad) and him getting his Doctor in Science specialization on botany he returns with an extraordinary discovery back to his hometown.
          (That would be my further sl for him: After years of research on an 1000 years old seed he found in amber he discovers that the seed belongs to a tree which only grew in his hometown and is believed to be extinct. But with a new technic he can grow this special tree. After returning to his town he opens up to his childhood sweetheart Elena about his grieving for his brother and in the end gives her a branch of this special tree because she listened to him and gave him comfort.
          Of course the special tree is the White Oak Tree and Elena will sit in her room until episode 20 to plane and sand an artistic stake out of it. In the end Stefan will drive it through Klaus heart and everyone in Mystic Falls is happy again. Oh I forgot Will will die in the process of it. Season Finale.)

          LOL!!!

      • Exactly!!! I’m sick of the Katherine fake out. Let Elena take part in the plans so that she can get hurt. It should have been her that got stabbed. Katherine wasn’t needed for things to play out the way it did. See? Token girl power. They had her going around last episode talking about how she’s got this and mean girl power struggle, and they have her stab Rebekah, and you’re not supposed to notice that she wound up sitting down.

        Elena looked even worse because of Caroline’s reactions. 1) Caroline told Tyler that he shouldn’t have let Matt get involved with a dangerous vampire because she wants to protect him from that stuff – Elena didn’t hesitate to get Matt involved even though the plan would have worked without him. 2) When Tyler asked Caroline if she would have gone home knowing that her friends were in danger, her expression conveyed that wouldn’t have been able to do that – Elena stayed home even though she knew all her friends were in danger.

        Seriously, was there a real concrete reason for her to involve Matt who is a regular human and can’t defend himself? Would it have been that weird for Klaus to see “Elena” at the dance alone? Bonnie was there alone.

        The whole ep was about Elena learning to care *less*. That is why I was wondering if Elena is on a villain arc in the last podcast comment section. She seems to be learning the lesson that being “good” doesn’t get you anything and that being “bad” is the way to go. The circle of people she cares about keeps narrowing. At the same time, the show keeps showing us Elena doing stuff that other characters are condemned for. Elena kissed Damon last season because she didn’t want him to be alone. When Jeremy kissed Anna because he didn’t want her to be alone, it was “bad”. Elena watched Lexi torture Stefan even though everyone lost their minds when that was done to Caroline a couple of eps earlier. Bill was “evil” for doing that.

        • My goodness, you’re so right about Caroline vs. Elena. *Sigh*

          Would it have been that weird for Klaus to see “Elena” at the dance alone?

          Oh you know how into the high school scene Klaus is. If he’d seen Elena without a date, he would have def known something was up because the cool kids told him Elena never shows up to an event without an escort. This reminds me of when JP and KW said they needed to give Damon a girlfriend (Andie) or people in town might start wondering why such an attractive man is single. Funny (and thankful) how that logic didn’t apply to Bonnie for a season and a half.

          She seems to be learning the lesson that being “good” doesn’t get you anything and that being “bad” is the way to go.

          I can’t think of an adjective to the describe the way I feel at the fact that this honestly came about in one episode and isn’t connected to anything she’s gone through during this Ripper!Stefan stuff. “My God” just doesn’t seem to convey my emotions wrt this. I didn’t think the ep was about Elena caring less, but it just might be.

          • This reminds me of when JP and KW said they needed to give Damon a girlfriend (Andie) or people in town might start wondering why such an attractive man is single.

            I didn’t believe that for a sec. I feel like these people lie about 80% of the time in their interviews. I don’t know why anyone still falls for their clumsy attempts at PR or audience manipulation or wtvr it is that they are doing. I couldn’t believe that people were still bringing this explanation up early this season w/r/t the Damon/Andie rapemance when there was *zero* indication of this onscreen. It is not like Damon and Andie were shown putting on a show in public EVER. It is not like they went to a FF party or another function together. It is not like Damon introduced her to Carol or Liz or anyone outside his tiny little circle (only Stefan, Alaric and Elena). I feel like JP and KW will say wtvr to avoid answering tough questions or to make the show sound more appropriate for tween audiences.

            • And it’s not like they actually showed people questioning the fact that Damon doesn’t have a girlfriend. Because no one would unless there’s something wrong with them.

          • I can’t think of an adjective to the describe the way I feel at the fact that this honestly came about in one episode and isn’t connected to anything she’s gone through during this Ripper!Stefan stuff.

            It hasn’t been explicitly stated on the show in that no one has vocalized it but Elena has been experiencing a slow and steady moral decline. The clearest example is her reaction to the Damon/Caroline rapemance vs. her reaction to the Damon/Andie rapemance. It wasn’t even the *type* of reaction but that there was *none*. It wasn’t as if she had a less severe reaction because Andie wasn’t her friend. She didn’t react AT ALL. It seems like, in the beginning of the series, Elena cared about people in general. Didn’t she want to prevent the tomb vampires from getting out because they might hurt people in town? She actively tried to do something to prevent that. I might be misremembering because I haven’t watched season one since it aired. Then it seems like the circle of people she cared about narrowed down to just her childhood friends/family and that was explicitly stated by the show. Then, during the “Ripper” arc, she was shown having no reaction to Stefan’s serial killer wall or to the fact that Stefan was actively killing people right then. I mean, Damon even presented Andie’s murder as proof that Stefan is “evil” but she did not give a damn.

            I don’t think that even the show is still saying that Elena is a “good” person. I think that maybe they are saying that she let her love/obsession with the Salvatores consume her to the point that she has gotten more and more hallowed out. I think the show is saying that Caroline, Tyler, Matt and, to a lesser extent, Bonnie (let’s not forget what she deliberately did to Luka) are good-ish/grey characters. I think the ToD are dark or near dark characters. Idk. Stefan is a sociopath but Elena is getting close. The only thing left for her to do is deliberately murder people and she came close to that in this ep.

            • Then it seems like the circle of people she cared about narrowed down to just her childhood friends/family and that was explicitly stated by the show.

              Actually, the circle of people narrowed again during the curse storyline to just the Salvatores, Bonnie, Jeremy and Jenna. It is not like she tried to keep track of Caroline or anyone else.

            • Elena as a dark character would be something that wouldn’t bother me if it was a result of things she had to do in order to protect herself instead of actions she had to accept in order to interact with Stefan and Damon. Because right now, I can’t get help but think she’s supposed to be viewed as believing in Damon and Stefan and loving Stefan so much.

            • Didn’t she want to prevent the tomb vampires from getting out because they might hurt people in town?

              I only clearly remember her offering the option to open the tomb in hopes that would calm Damon down or whatever. Then she offered to go talk to Damon since they had a ~connection.

              Then it seems like the circle of people she cared about narrowed down to just her childhood friends/family and that was explicitly stated by the show.

              But then they very clearly had her say that Klaus breaking the curse would lead to a lot of people dying, so there was no choice but to kill herself. I’m all for Elena degenerating, but I need them to not only stick to it, but make it explicit if only so that characters like Bonnie (or heck maybe only Bonnie) can call her out on it. The thing I just realized though, is that this dark tendency only comes out around Damon, and she only talks to Damon or Stefan about them. Look at last episode. So when would the characters get to see it enough to comment on it? How would they even notice?

    • Mikaels death … omg and here I thought he would be the new big bad for the other half of the season. These writers …

      Right? I feel kinda bad for all the people who really liked the actor and were so happy to see him on TVD. It’s almost as if he’d never been on TVD.

      to dagger (is this even a word

      I’ve been wondering about that too. According to LEO, this verb doesn’t exist, lol.

      And of course I loved the Damon/Bonnie/Tyler scene … *Bamon shipper heart reanimated* (yeh I´m pathetic like that).

      Ohh, don’t worry about it!! I also have this ship on the show that I ship against my better judgment. What can you do.

      But did he really think, that after he resurrected his siblings the would fall into his arms and make a big party?

      Yeah, I didn’t get that either. I also felt that this “Now that Daddy is dead, I can re-animate my siblings” came out of nowhere. Why did Daddy have to die first? I didn’t get the impression that Mikael was close to any of his children and that Klaus had to fear that they might side with their father. Idk.

      I have to confess that I was happy that he did win at least one time.

      I never cared much about Mikael but in this moment I was hoping against hope that he might kill Klaus and we’d be finally rid of this woobie villain. At least Mikael never cried.

      Well, technically, Klaus always wins against “Team Elena” (The Sun also Rises, The Reckoning). But it never makes him look competent/dangerous, just lucky.

      And at the party it was not surprising for me because that sounded like Katherine (I think Nina is doing a bad job with this doppelgänger swap this season) all the time.

      Yes, she totally sounded like Katherine. And I say that as probably the only person who did not expect her to actually be Katherine. (I had previously read an interview with Michael Trevino where was asked if he knew what happened to Katherine after she was bitten by Mikael and when we’d see her again. He said that he didn’t know and that she wasn’t in the next three episodes. So yeah, I was fooled by Michael Trevino, lol.)

      Do you think that now after the stake is burned they will go back to only a witch can kill Klaus or do they find another way to end him for real?

      It would make sense if they’d go back to it being only a witch who can kill him. It would make sense – and that’s why it probably won’t happen.

      By the way, I checked out the German TVD thread on fanforum. But apparently virtually everybody has quit watching show?!? LOL, I can’t blame them. They are cleverer than us.

      • Right? I feel kinda bad for all the people who really liked the actor and were so happy to see him on TVD. It’s almost as if he’d never been on TVD.

        Me too. I read so much about him and everyone was so excited. And at first I thought perhaps he will survive it but then he burst into flames and I had to say goodbye to him.
        But isn´t it kind of a fail in the writing departement that they kill of the only person Klaus fears after one episode and not even with much trying. Why should we fear him again? At first I thought he killed Katherine that would have been cool but then his history was brought up, we learned that he hunted Klaus down for 1000 years and didn´t get him – oh scary dude. These writers can´t do a really big bad, they always end as a joke.

        I’ve been wondering about that too. According to LEO, this verb doesn’t exist, lol.

        Lmao. In Mystic Falls exists a whole new vocabulary.

        Ohh, don’t worry about it!! I also have this ship on the show that I ship against my better judgment. What can you do.

        *highfive* We are doomed. Lol.

        At least Mikael never cried.

        Oh, after five episodes on this show he would have for sure. Lol.
        But you´re right I can´t stand woobie Klaus, but at least it wasn´t just one tear, because these moments I hate they most.

        Well, technically, Klaus always wins against “Team Elena” (The Sun also Rises, The Reckoning). But it never makes him look competent/dangerous, just lucky.

        Right. That´s why I never remember it. But this time he also looks lucky and in the end he is the loser again without his family and a empty truck. At least he has a leather jacket.

        Yeah, I didn’t get that either. I also felt that this “Now that Daddy is dead, I can re-animate my siblings” came out of nowhere. Why did Daddy have to die first? I didn’t get the impression that Mikael was close to any of his children and that Klaus had to fear that they might side with their father. Idk.

        This show. We only saw Rebekah, Klaus and Elijah … perhaps they were in this together like they said but the others went with Mikael? We don´t know anything about it.
        I ask myself if Stefan will open the coffins.

        I had previously read an interview with Michael Trevino where was asked if he knew what happened to Katherine after she was bitten by Mikael and when we’d see her again. He said that he didn’t know and that she wasn’t in the next three episodes. So yeah, I was fooled by Michael Trevino, lol.

        I read that, too. But then Damon spoke about Katherine (My reaction: Urgh, she is back) and I saw her scenes with Matt and Klaus and I couldn´t believe that is Katherine.
        Michael Trevino is a troll.

        It would make sense if they’d go back to it being only a witch who can kill him. It would make sense – and that’s why it probably won’t happen.

        Yep sense and TVD doesn´t fit well.

        By the way, I checked out the German TVD thread on fanforum. But apparently virtually everybody has quit watching show?!? LOL, I can’t blame them. They are cleverer than us.

        That´s right, lol. I think they all wait for me to make the post and then they respond to it. I think they only stay here because of the violet background and because it became so familiar there. I think most of them gave up shipping, too. But what can you say they destroyed practically any ship on the show.
        They truely are.

      • Yes, she totally sounded like Katherine. And I say that as probably the only person who did not expect her to actually be Katherine.

        Plus, she called Klaus Niklaus when she was talking to Caroline. That is what tipped me off

          • I heard wrong. I just checked. Lmao! I got tipped off by something that didn’t even happen. I don’t know why I imagined that.

            Actually, now I am wondering how much Matt remembers of his time with Katherine. His reaction to her was so weird. Was there something more than compulsion between them?

            Also, why would Matt even agree to go with Rebekah? Does he not know she is a vampire? I thought he didn’t want to be involved in supernatural stuff anymore.

            • Can Matt remember anything? Does the show? Because, in my head, what he would remember would involve being compelled to get himself killed. That wouldn’t make him friendly. I don’t think anymore than the compulsion happened between them though. In fact, I would hate for the show to reveal that something had because 1) weird and 2) talk about a world of problematic elements with this show when it comes to compulsion and consent, a can of worms the show only seemed willing to faintly acknowledge in s1.

              He should know that Rebekah was a vampire. She was there when Klaus killed Tyler. She dragged Tyler out of the gym. He doesn’t want to be involved in the supernatural and the show gave him no motivation to be there with either Rebekah or Katherine, except for the fact that Jeremy apparently buried himself under a rock and could not be dragged out to go on a fake date with his sister/cousin. For obvious reasons.

              I wish they’d kill Matt off so we didn’t have to see his character wasted.

              • Do you think they were trying to say something about Matt’s feelings for Caroline and Elena? Maybe something about his inability to get over his romantic partners? He was going to go to the dance with a copy of Caroline essentially and then he actually went to the dance with a copy of Elena. It would be interesting (or at least make this whole thing more understandable) if they said that Matt wanted to go out with Rebekah because she reminded him of Caroline. Early this season, it seemed like he regretted his decision to dump her.

                • I don’t think so. Rebekah isn’t at all like Caroline, really. And Matt would have had to interact with her…at all…for me to get that impression. The thought of Matt still not being over Elena chokes me up.

                  • Rebekah isn’t at all like Caroline

                    I think the show is saying they are. Not only did they get the same nickname (Barbie *gag*) but, as soon as she entered MF, Rebekah got the same interests as Caroline. I mean, the only two people excited about the Homecoming dance were Rebekah and Caroline. I think they are they same *type* of character if that makes any sense. Anyway, Matt made zero sense in this ep and I am trying to figure out if there is any way to explain this.

                    The thought of Matt still not being over Elena chokes me up.

                    But Elena is the most perfect, most compassionate and strongest character ever. How can anyone not love her? I want her to be evil Goddamnit. I want all of this to be a facade that is now finally slipping

                    • I have no idea. And what’s more discouraging is that they don’t plan on doing anything with it. Matt should just have not been in the episode. Katherine could have gone to the dance herself. If they wanted an interim scene between the switch, they could’ve shown Elena watching Stefan’s unconscious body or throw in a Delena phone call. Matt washed his hands of everything in 3.07. There’s no logical or even cracky explanation for why he’d take a vamp to the dance in 3.09. Especially when he missed the episode between. He has to know Rebekah is a vamp. She lives with the Salvatores. Did he go up to her and ask her out? Did she ask him? What the heck happened? And considering Matt’s disposition, this is stuff they should have told us. These are the things they need to tell us when it comes to Matt. Instead they opted for showing, and I’m not even sure what they were supposed to be showing.

                • Do you think they were trying to say something about Matt’s feelings for Caroline and Elena? Maybe something about his inability to get over his romantic partners?

                  Nope. I think once Matt got his closure, the writers stopped caring. So he was just a plot device in that story. Because if he wasn’t a plot device maybe he would have said something/reacted to being asked to take not one, but two different vampires to Homecoming.

                  He did wander off to drink and my current canon is that he isn’t handling his closure as well as he could. Mostly because he got closure with Vicki, but has still yet to confront her murderers. But whatever. that’s not the story on the show.

                  And I can’t handle this show if we’re meant to believe that Matt is still hung up on Elena. Even if it could make sense of him escorting Katherine to Homecoming. I’d rather that not make sense than the other.

                  • They had Matt take Katherine to the dance, but they didn’t even play on Katherine’s crush on Matt (thereby telling us she’d compelled him again) because that would have ruined the ~twist.

                    • I would have been so for it if they’d played on Katherine’s crush on him because maybe there would have been fall out for that, since Elena would have had to know or have an idea that he was compelled. A more appropriate twist would have been Klaus or Mikael knowing it was Katherine and killing her before she could get away.

                    • Yep. Preferably Klaus because to think Mikael thought he’d killed Katherine only for him to show up…it just would have been more fodder to make fun of that family. Lol.

                      Katherine got her freedom. Klaus let her go. She could’ve left. Instead she stayed, acting like Klaus was still after her, plotted against him, participated in the plan in a way that Klaus knew it was her instead of standing back and pulling strings, and has succeeded in repainting a mark on her back. Not that it matters because if the show wanted to take the whole Klaus would kill Katherine if he saw her thing seriously, he would have killed her in Homecoming.

            • I think that was just Zach Roerig’s acting.

              Ugh. That’s really irritating. The show sacrificed a good fact of Matt’s character for their stupid twist. Why not just have him going with Elena from jump?

  12. I don’t think Stefan turn his emotions/conscious on because they would not have wasted that moment on him calling Klaus which, other than collecting a bunch of coffins, counts as the first real thing he does after leaving. Unless we’re meant to assume, he turned on his emotions, saved Damon, and decided to skip town to, spare everyone his future emotional and mental breakdown, avoid dealing with the things he’s done. If that’s the case then him turning on his emotions was still wasted on Katherine and Klaus because they witnessed the official aftermath of his decision. Nevermind, that would have been impossible since Klaus didn’t release him from his compulsion until after that. Anyway, Klaus still compelled him to turn it off and he didn’t take that back.

    What I’m trying to get at is, part of me is hoping Stefan’s emotions aren’t back on, so his decision to essentially deprive Klaus of his family, seems motivated by an emotion he doesn’t really have a right to and it would make slightly more sense for him to be attacking Klaus because he was compelled and now this is his twisted form of revenge. Because what is Stefan’s endgame? His only leverage is that he has the coffins. But if Klaus called Stefan’s bluff and Stefan killed his family…it seems like a no win scenario for either of them. Unless of course, Stefan is planning to play of Klaus’s siblings desire for revenge. Which would also make sense.

    Anyway, it would be interesting if Bonnie had to kill both Klaus and Stefan, not because they were working together, but because they’re fighting and other people were paying for it and that wouldn’t be okay. Now that the Original stake is out of the picture, I imagine that Bonnie and maybe Abby, are going to be the ones who have to take Klaus out and if Klaus becomes worse because of Stefan’s actions, I can imagine them taking him out too. Now this is on a different show, where Stefan would actually die. But I’m just thinking things out.

    • The reason I think his emotions/conscious might be back on is that they are in fact doing something big with it (big in this show’s eyes): they’re jumping right to Stefan trying to destroy Klaus. He has changed the game by challenging the big bad. I think the producers would definitely classify this as a big deal. I’m keeping my mind open, but I see evidence, by this show’s standards and history, for Stefan having his emotions on. I can’t see him eating/feeding on anyone when we come back.

      • Stop dashing my dreams Alta! Though, I guess his emotions were on for the first half of the season, so his emotions being on now doesn’t have to mean anything. I don’t know. Maybe my problem is that I’m still looking for the potential character exploration/good story that could occur and the show is invested in the plot/rushing past stuff.

        • I am sorry! I’m trying to protect u!!!!

          That’s the thing, Stefan with his emotions turned off was happy go lucky!Stefan. He was throwing “zingers” everywhere. I think this is pre-compulsion!Stefan, only more serious.

          Geez, I can barely keep track of the different Stefans. Especially since he barely had a problem being with Klaus pre-compulsion.

          Just so I’m clear, his motivation right now is that he’s pissed because Klaus ruined his life, right?

          • I need it. I keep thinking up storylines and then stopping myself because they’ll never happen.

            Geez, I can barely keep track of the different Stefans. Especially since he barely had a problem being with Klaus pre-compulsion.

            I just put them all under the umbrella of crazy!beans Stefan and leave it at that. He’s just got varying degrees of concern for others. He was mostly bitchy pre-compulsion.

            Yup. You know, with the deal he walked into with Klaus with his eyes open and everything, in order to save Damon. Who wanted to die. I’m still hoping they turn this storyline on its head and have Stefan say that he wanted to follow Klaus. But that’s never going to happen.

            I bet we’re finally going to hear why Stefan does things again! Only, none of his explanations will have anything to do with the horrible things he’s done and everything to do with humanity, brother, other synonyms for good person.

            • Yep, Stefan will finally be commenting on his own story. Just in time for him to talk about how bad he feels and how tortured he is and how regretful he is. Ugh. I wish he had just left with Katherine. Or better yet, I wish he’d gone with Klaus after he released him.

              • I’m prepared to watch PW cry about not saying goodbye to Lexi and being mean to Elena and a ton of aborted attempts at walking into the sunlight. There will be meaningful looks at Elena and “brother” talks and drinking probably. It will pale in comparison to the one episode, the one episode, they gave him for recovery during the blood arc.

                Ugh. I wish he had just left with Katherine. Or better yet, I wish he’d gone with Klaus after he released him.

                This is what should have happened. The Klaus scenario instead of the Katherine scenario, since I have a bias and he obviously can’t go with the both of them, and then Bonnie could have woken up the other Originals while Klaus was having his celebratory pre-family awakening jaunt.

                • Ugh. I wish he had just left with Katherine.

                  I was wondering about that. Can we be completely sure that he isn’t with Katherine anymore? I mean, yeah, she wasn’t in the room with the coffins when Stefan was calling Klaus. But this whole revenge thing seemed to be her idea? She told Stefan to “get mad”. It seemed to me that Stefan is now carrying out her plan (either knowingly or unknowingly), although I’m not really sure about that. The show confuses me so much. So, maybe, in the opening of the next episode, he’s still somewhere with Katherine? I don’t know.

                  • I mean, yeah, she wasn’t in the room with the coffins when Stefan was calling Klaus. But this whole revenge thing seemed to be her idea? She told Stefan to “get mad”. It seemed to me that Stefan is now carrying out her plan (either knowingly or unknowingly), although I’m not really sure about that.

                    That is what I got from the ending too. I would love it if that was the case. Stefan thinks he is being all independent and badass but he is doing something disastrous because of someone else’s manipulation….again. Oh, poor Stefan. Plus, Katherine’s reasoning was so weak. The hybrids will get Damon? Really? The hybrids whose hearts Damon can rip out in a sec and who Katherine can instantly weaken with wolfsbane grenades. I can’t believe Stefan fell for that. I don’t think these Hybrids are harder to take out than the tomb vampires.

                    I hope Katherine has her own reasons for doing this outside of Damon. I can see Katherine helping Damon even if she has nothing to gain but I can’t see Katherine prioritizing someone else’s life over hers *ever*. And why didn’t Mikael kill her? Idk. The whole thing seems fishy.

                    • Did Stefan know how easy it was to take out the Hybrids? Plus he was still under Klaus’s compulsion prior to the plan taking effect. He could have just stayed away from the party. I’m trying to figure out why Klaus’s “If I die” instructions would include killing Damon, but not Elena or Stefan or Mikael. Klaus gives no shits about Damon. He’s not even seen Damon and Elena get closer so why would he think that would work on her.

                      Anyway, I’d hate for Stefan to be getting manipulated again because he’s already such a non-entity in his storyline and the show is just confusing on that front. On what we’re supposed to feel about him or what he’s gone through. He doesn’t talk about it. Damon and Elena change their minds every other week. It’s confusing.

                      I’d enjoy it if they came up with the plan together or if he was willingly carrying out her plan instead of getting manipulated into it. I’m just, this show throws up a lot of ideas about who characters are and then doesn’t tell a story with it, so seeing Stefan do something incredibly destructive once again, without getting a sense of his role (his motivation) in it, would fall flat on this show.

                      Especially since, Katherine could have taken Klaus’s family without Stefan or even being a part of the plan to take Klaus down. Is she hoping to buy her freedom? Because I can’t imagine Katherine thinking that Klaus wouldn’t simply promise her freedom until he got his family back and then rip her in two. The goal of kidnapping Klaus’s family seems to be getting Klaus to kill people. Because nothing else really makes sense. Like I’m trying to figure out the point to all of this and there doesn’t seem to be one.

                    • I’m trying to figure out why Klaus’s “If I die” instructions would include killing Damon,

                      He thought that was Elena, so why wouldn’t he threaten someone like Bonnie (especially since he heard Elena tell Bonnie to get out in Smells Like Teen Spirit). Why didn’t he threaten Elena’s friends instead of some dude he should think is only her boyfriend’s brother?

                    • Especially since he threatened *all* of Tyler’s friends when he was talking to Tyler. He pointed out Bonnie first and I was like, Tyler and Bonnie are friends? Lol. The threat he gave “Elena” would be like if he *only* threatened Bonnie when he was talking to Tyler – from Klaus’ point of view I mean. How would he know that Elena loves Damon? Katherine’s story seems bogus and the soft glow they used for that part of the flashback was weird. I don’t think they have ever filmed a flashback like that but I guess the show will actually play this straight.

                      It is funny the number of times Klaus wins by luck. I don’t think that Elena would have woken Stefan up since she didn’t trust him. Also, the only reason his hybrid army plan worked was pure luck. I don’t think he knew about this siring stuff before hand. He told Stefan that he expected his hybrids to follow him because he was the winning side or some other nonsense like that.

                    • He pointed out Bonnie first and I was like, Tyler and Bonnie are friends? Lol.

                      Lmao. Now I’m thinking it would have been much better to have Tyler tell Bonnie that Klaus was threatening everybody instead of Damon. Ugh.

                      The threat he gave “Elena” would be like if he *only* threatened Bonnie when he was talking to Tyler – from Klaus’ point of view I mean.

                      Exactly.

                      Now that you mention it, it would have been more suspenseful and OMFG! if Klaus had told Stefan about siring in that scene as a reason why the Hybrids would follow him, and then he killed Tyler. We all would’ve gone “Oh shit” at him snapping Tyler’s neck, not because he’s dead because we’d know he was headed to being Klaus’ manservant and we’d wonder what that means and how long it would take everyone to figure it out. It would also serve in showing Klaus thinking ahead about the consequences of his plans.

                      They did the soft glow shot when Katherine made Stefan dream about the first Founder’s Party.

                    • Because they’re not actually sisters. Elena absolutely cannot relate to Bonnie the way she relates to Jeremy;

                      You are right about that but I don’t know if Elena was fully aware of that necessarily. A lot of people do treat their bffs like they were family until something happens that tears that illusion away. When it comes down to it, Jeremy comes before Bonnie no matter what. I think she actually needed Bonnie to point that out to her. Bonnie wasn’t living the same illusion. Maybe she was before but not anymore. Also, I don’t know if Elena is fully aware of how damaged her relationship with Bonnie is. I find it interesting that whenever Bonnie wants to talk to Elena, it is Katherine and when Elena wants to talk to Bonnie, she gets sidetracked or Bonnie doesn’t want to talk. Is Elena aware that Caroline has taken her place in Bonnie’s life? The other thing I find interesting (or sad – depending on your pov) is that Elena keeps coming to these epiphanies about families lately but that doesn’t lead her Jeremy or to fixing her relationship with Bonnie (or anyone she has known for *years*). It leads her Damon.

                    • You are right about that but I don’t know if Elena was fully aware of that necessarily.

                      Which is part of the “she cared for everyone in the same way” spiel the writers are going for with her. Whatevs. The moment allowed Bonnie to display maturity.

                      Also, I don’t know if Elena is fully aware of how damaged her relationship with Bonnie is.

                      Oh of course not. We’re not supposed to see the relationship as damaged. We’re not supposed to see that Caroline and Bonnie is a better combination than Bonnie/Elena.

                      The other thing I find interesting (or sad – depending on your pov) is that Elena keeps coming to these epiphanies about families lately but that doesn’t lead her Jeremy or to fixing her relationship with Bonnie (or anyone she has known for *years*). It leads her Damon.

                      Very true. They never make her reevaluate how she’s been treating her family and friends.

                    • Because they’re not actually sisters. Elena absolutely cannot relate to Bonnie the way she relates to Jeremy;

                      You are right about that but I don’t know if Elena was fully aware of that necessarily. A lot of people do treat their bffs like they are family until something happens that tears that illusion away. When it comes down to it, Jeremy comes before Bonnie no matter what. I think she actually needed Bonnie to point that out to her. Bonnie wasn’t living the same illusion. Maybe she was before but not anymore. Also, I don’t know if Elena is fully aware of how damaged her relationship with Bonnie is. I find it interesting that whenever Bonnie wants to talk to Elena, it is Katherine and when Elena wants to talk to Bonnie, she gets sidetracked or Bonnie doesn’t want to talk. Is Elena aware that Caroline has taken her place in Bonnie’s life? The other thing I find interesting (or sad – depending on your pov) is that Elena keeps coming to these epiphanies about families lately but that doesn’t lead her to Jeremy or to fixing her relationship with Bonnie (or anyone she has known for *years*). It leads her to Damon.

                    • Jesus! I put my responses in the wrong place *twice*. The stuff about Bonnie and Elena belongs way down. Copying it to the appropriate place now

                  • I hope he isn’t carrying out Katherine’s plan. Mostly because Stefan hates Katherine. That’s part textual, he’s said it enough times, and part how PW plays him. Stefan absolutely hates her and if he tolerates her it seems to be born more from a desire to let her know that than any affection/agreement. And I don’t think the show did anything with Stefan in this episode to suggest that he was in such a bad place that Katherine, of all people, would be the person to get him to open up and want revenge. Before she started talking all he said was that he couldn’t go back. There wasn’t much ceremony or agony in his voice. He seemed tired and resigned.

                    Plus her reasoning for not killing Klaus still doesn’t make sense compared to how comparatively easy it was to kill/disable the Hybrids.

                    • Why does Katherine think Stefan can take on Klaus by himself? I mean is she sending him on a suicide mission hoping he gets killed? What about all the hoopla she made last season about how hard Klaus was to kill and you had to come at him correct? Didn’t she tell Stefan in Chicago that he wasn’t diabolical enough to trick, much less kill, Klaus? What happened to that?

                  • He better not be! That sounded like a goodbye from Katherine, that entire scene. Damon even told her to take care of herself (which I liked). She better be gone.

                    • True but this wouldn’t be the first time with a character being somewhere at the end of an episode and at the beginning of the next one s/he is suddenly in a completely different place. Physically and emotionally. But we will see.

                      Yes, I liked Damon telling Katherine to take care of herself, too. That was nice.

  13. Imo, Klaus having a wake for Mikael could have been good, if

    a) he had been more smart about it and demanded to see his body first
    b) he had planned something more interesting and way more creepy. Something other than having My Morning Jacket perform in front of a bunch of high-school kids.

    Basically, I really liked the idea but didn’t care for the execution.

    • Yes! I mean really, Klaus is 1000 years old, he can’t think of a band more interesting than My Morning Jacket? And the fact that he didn’t see the body, even though that was a condition of him coming back to Mystic Falls, is really ridiculous.

      I also wonder why they didn’t just drag Stefan into a cell in the basement. Mikael had to know that feeding off of Stefan wouldn’t kill him or keep him knocked out the whole time. He’s done this before. He clearly wasn’t trying to kill Katherine. Plus, all Katherine had to do was nudge him with her foot. So what was the point of them taking Stefan out of the picture if they weren’t going take the measures to ensure he stayed out of the picture?

      • Oh, and not only creepy but also eccentric! I think this wake should have been way more eccentric. It should have showcased Klaus’ crazy.

        Klaus is 1000 years old, he can’t think of a band more interesting than My Morning Jacket?

        Aw, poor My Morning Jacket. But yeah, lame choice. But its lameness is kind of fitting for Klaus, though, I have to say. The guy totally got MMJ to perform just to impress the kids and come off as cool. Typical Klaus, basically.

        So what was the point of them taking Stefan out of the picture if they weren’t going take the measures to ensure he stayed out of the picture?

        Yeah, that made no sense.This show.

          • LOL.

            And Klaus said that he’d been planning his father’s funeral for a thousand years *cries in frustration*

            Mikael had it so wrong. It isn’t his impulsiveness that prevents Klaus from ever being truly great (lol, who came up with that line?), it’s his general patheticness and lack of imagination.

            • Lmao.

              What Klaus was Mikael talking about? We’ve never seen that Klaus, not Elijah’s version, not the actual Klaus, and not the Klaus in the flashbacks (dude hesitated because of his fear of his father and told him everything). They probably inserted that line because they thought it sounded cool.

              • When he said that line, I was like: “Um, show, isn’t impulsiveness supposed to be *Damon’s* defining character trait? You’ve got your characters mixed up!!!”

                It made no sense that somebody would say this about Klaus. And it also made no sense that Mikael would say something like this about Klaus. His statement implied: Klaus minus this one quality = could be great. No. We didn’t know much about Mikael but one thing we knew for sure – he thought that Klaus was a complete failure, impulsiveness or no impulsiveness.

                They probably inserted that line because they thought it sounded cool.

                Probably. And probably because the scene hinged on the question whether Klaus would be impulsive enough to cross the threshold, leaving his secure position inside the house, and attack his father. So, by claiming that impulsiveness has always been a trait of Klaus’ character, the show made it a real possibility and, in the writers’ mind, amped up the tension.

                  • Just rewatched the ep (the things I do to myself) and realized that Mikael’s remark about Klaus being impulsive came at the end of their scene and wasn’t about amping up the tension. So yeah, you are right, it’s just there because the writers thought it sounded cool.

  14. Katherine is alive. So I’m wondering what Anna and Rebekah and everyone else was afraid of if Mikael only drinks the blood of other vampires and doesn’t kill them? Because I got a true sense that their fear was based on Mikael’s reputation as a vampire hunter, something he seems to hold separate from his hunt for Klaus (by the way: I think he was lying to Rebekah in the beginning because in the 20s he was looking for the both of them). Katherine wasn’t dead and Stefan wasn’t even knocked out for most of the evening. So what exactly was the point of Mikael spelling doom and gloom? His character grows less interesting on closer examination, despite Sebastian Roche managing to do a pretty good job with the crap he was given.

    • They were afraid of Mikael solely so we would speculate about him. The producers just wanted to create a buzz. Because really? Good thing Pearl never told Katherine about Mikael because Katherine would wake Mikael up, take him to Klaus, Klaus would kill him and then kill her.

  15. I agree with a lot of the zap2it review: http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2011/11/the-vampire-diaries-recap-whos-afraid-of-the-big-bad-wolf.html

    especially this part There’s a big show made of Katherine begging Stefan to “care” about his brother’s impending death.

    Here’s my problem with this whole set-up. First of all, we already know Stefan didn’t want Damon to die; we saw that last week. Second of all, Stefan’s actions were ultimately self-serving — he got his freedom, and now that Mikael is gone, Damon is currently No. 1 on Klaus’s hit list. Damon also has no one looking out for him in Mystic Falls who isn’t a plain old human.

    Third of all… what was the point of Katherine’s flashy wolfsbane bombs if not to keep the hybrid army from attacking Damon? We know that Originals are capable of compelling hybrids, so once Klaus was dead, Mikael could’ve compelled everyone to back off Damon. Hell, Stefan and Katherine could’ve woken up Rebekah so they’d have backup on that. They could’ve brought Bonnie in to hand out migraines.

    All in all, this is flimsy. It’s an elaborate way to give Damon and Elena the all-clear to get over their Stefan hangups, while meanwhile, keeping Stefan from turning into a villain.

    Stefan didn’t even have to break his compulsion to save his brother, so there was no great breakthrough there. Plus, he’s still got his humanity switched off — he doesn’t want to feel remorse for the last few months of his life, so he’s doing just fine.

    The real problems here aren’t the plot holes, though, but the way they chose to tell the story. The the flashback device was employed in order to amp up suspense in what otherwise would’ve been a rather straightforward tale, but along with the suspense, they created confusion for the audience and for many of the characters. Sacrificing emotional depth for suspense isn’t a good idea, and here, that’s what happened. There are key character moments that the audience didn’t get to see: Stefan making the decision to save his brother. Elena asking Matt to attend the dance with Katherine. Damon convincing Elena to stay home and twiddle her thumbs while the plan was executed without her. We didn’t even get to see Elena’s face when she learned that Stefan had “betrayed” them.

    and this part: Klaus thought Stefan was his friend, but Stefan is pissed about their summer of slaughter, and he’s taken Klaus’s family both as revenge and, I assume, as leverage, so Klaus doesn’t kill Damon or abuse Elena’s blood supply while Stefan is off… doing whatever Stefan’s going to do.

    Again, I’m just confused. Maybe I don’t like this episode because it makes me feel like I’m not particularly smart! Stefan would’ve been a lot better off waking up the siblings — Elijah, who knows him, at the very least — and breaking the news that Klaus killed mommy. Then he’d have a strong ally against Klaus. That would be revenge. Taking the coffins isn’t revenge, it’s a cat-and-mouse game designed to make Klaus even more angry.

    Especially the last bit. It’s an ineffective move because it invites threats like, “I’m going to kill you and everyone you have ever met.”

    • Holy crap, that’s from zap2it? I’m so used to her loving everything the show does.

      I agree with her points though. We did miss those character moments. Does Matt even know that was Katherine? She compelled him once! That’s the type of stuff we needed to see.

      And that’s exactly what Stefan should have done. People kept saying he had to go with Klaus or else he would kill everyone he loved just like he did Katherine’s family. I’m sure it’s going completely over their heads that Stefan just put everyone he loves in direct danger.

  16. I’ve never read the zap2it reviews, so I had no idea she usually loves what the show does.

    Does Matt even know that was Katherine? She compelled him once!

    She compelled him to provoke his own death. I mean, can he get a response to that? Would it kill the writers to slow down long enough for a moment like that?

    Why would the writers have Stefan do something smart? They hate all the characters on the show and are more interested in “badass” moments than smart or effective ones. It doesn’t even make sense because Stefan was about to wake Elijah up at the end of the fourth episode, just so he could find out about Mikael, why wouldn’t he go that route again? (Plus, if he’s still w/o emotions or even with them, Stefan is a pretty cold individual, it would make sense for him to try and hurt Klaus in a way that mattered, and what would hurt Klaus more than his siblings being woken up by someone else and learning that not only had he killed their father, he framed him for their mother’s death. Add that on top of the fact that he put them on ice and that would be revenge equivalent to what Stefan believes, for whatever reason, Klaus stole from him. )

    • Would it kill the writers to slow down long enough for a moment like that?

      They probably think we would get bored.

      It doesn’t even make sense because Stefan was about to wake Elijah up at the end of the fourth episode, just so he could find out about Mikael, why wouldn’t he go that route again?

      This is a thing with the show. An annoying thing. They characters think of doing something, they get distracted, and they don’t think to go back and try again. Like Bonnie trying to kill Klaus. Yeah, the spirits are gone but why didn’t they try to come up with another magical solution? You weren’t exaggerating when you were shocked Matt asked Jeremy a second time if he said Vicky’s name. That’s unheard of in this show.

  17. I am wondering why Elena was ok with Bonnie and Caroline being at the party when it could have been dangerous for them. It wasn’t like they were part of the plan. She didn’t care about their safety? Would Klaus have noticed them missing?

    I think the Bonnie and Damon moment was only there for a “Bamon” moment. There was no other point to it. The show is not even trying anymore. They are stringing together a bunch of “twists”, woobie moments and ship moments with barely any story.

    • Tyler showed more concern for people than Elena did. He told Damon that everyone in the party was in danger from Klaus but Damon didn’t care and neither did Elena apparently. Plus, he told Matt to get “everyone” out of there. I don’t know why Matt didn’t try to get Bonnie out of there too. I guess he got diff instructions from Elena

      Tyler mentioned that there are people who like to get bitten by vampires. So….uh… people in town know about vampires? And they still live there and don’t try to hunt them down? I mean, if a few vampire groupies know, you can bet that a lot more people know because info like that would spread.

      • Tyler mentioned that there are people who like to get bitten by vampires. So….uh… people in town know about vampires? And they still live there and don’t try to hunt them down?

        That’s what I was wondering too! Who are these people? Why does Rebekah, who is new in town and has spent the past 90 years in a casket, know about them, and not our resident vampires (especially Damon)? So they like to get bitten by vampires – which vampires exactly? Are there other vampires in Mystic Falls?

        I think the line was only there to clarify that Tyler is not a serial killer. He is only feeding on the willing, ok.

        • I think the line was only there to clarify that Tyler is not a serial killer. He is only feeding on the willing, ok.

          Lol. All the supporting characters are only there to make the ToD look bad this season. Stefan didn’t give a damn about innocent lives when he was “forced” to work for Klaus. Now Tyler is shown caring about human lives even as he is being forced for real (not some sort of deal) to work for Klaus.

          • I’m not sure the writers are aware the ToD can look bad. At least not since season two. Remember before the season began when JP said they realized there was no line that Stefan could cross once they realized that people were willing to forgive Damon for snapping Jeremy’s neck? I think that’s the reality they are living in. It’s part of the reason Damon never made up for or tried to make up for that act. It’s part of the reason, Stefan has yet to articulate his motivations. And why everyone else keeps talking about his humanity/brotherhood/goodness. In fact the closest he’s come to saying anything about being happy or upset was when Lexi was torturing him. That’s the most Stefan we’ve gotten this season and we’re not meant to believe him, which is sad. And we’re constantly being told by Elena how she cares too much. The writers are convinced that telling us all of this takes the place of showing us all of this. (How hard would it have been to have Stefan hesitate, at least once, when he had to kill someone? And to have allowed that hesitation to be a true one, before he remembered what he was and what he wanted and what he promised he would do and to have him shake that hesitation off. Not the panic of the blood!arc, but something more subtle. Scarier even.)

            Are we supposed to assume he cared about those human lives? Or does he just not kill people? And is that his doing or Rebekah’s? Plus, I have a hard time believing that if there are a bunch of willing people in town Damon has yet to utilize them. Or Stefan. Because they could have so brought up the idea of people willing to be fed on during the blood!arc, have that be something Stefan was tempted by or that Damon knew was a risk.

            • That’s the most Stefan we’ve gotten this season and we’re not meant to believe him, which is sad.

              That is so sad. Stefan doesn’t have anyone in his corner.

              Yeah, I think we’re supposed to assume he cares.

          • Stefan didn’t give a damn about innocent lives when he was “forced” to work for Klaus. Now Tyler is shown caring about human lives even as he is being forced for real (not some sort of deal) to work for Klaus.

            This is so true!!!!

        • Seriously though, why were they so concerned with making sure that Tyler does not look like a serial killer but they didn’t even have Stefan show some remorse while he was murdering for Klaus pre-compulsion? I guess the ToD are the true villains of the story? Lol

          • I don’t know!! I guess the writers think that the audience loves Damon and Stefan so much that it will forgive them anything but that the same doesn’t apply to Tyler? Since Tyler doesn’t have that many fans?

            Either that or they think that the serial killer quota is already filled with Stefan and they don’t want to have to deal with two characters who will end up being tortured? Plus, it would take away from Stefan’s (non-existent) arc if Tyler went through basically the same thing.

            That’s all I can think of.

        • I think the line was only there to clarify that Tyler is not a serial killer. He is only feeding on the willing, ok.

          Yep. These people who like to get bitten by vamps pop up just in time for Tyler to stay a good person.

      • Tyler mentioned that there are people who like to get bitten by vampires. So….uh… people in town know about vampires?

        Will the producers delve into this? No. I remember someone saying Andie could’ve been someone who found out about Damon and due to her own hang-ups or kinks, she willingly let him feed on her. It might’ve been you. But the producers simply wanted to be gross about it. This was probably just a throwaway line. We know from Slater’s girlfriend that some people do like to willingly be with and get biten by vamps, but the show doesn’t seem to have time to explore that.

    • Which goes against her previously wanting to exclude Bonnie in order to keep her safe.

      When you really look at it, there’s no reason Damon needed to be present in that scene. Bonnie could’ve just gone up to Tyler and given him an aneurysm. And we might’ve actually gotten a Bonnie/Tyler scene. So yeah, it’s not like Damon needed to steal anything from Tyler.

      • Damon had to be in that scene because of reasons that make no sense, except for the fact that JP basically confirmed at the beginning of s2 that the ToD are always on set or something. This was right around the time she said that the characters aren’t doing anything when they’re off-screen (even though at the time Matt was being compelled by Katherine and Jenna was being compelled by Katherine).

  18. Did Elena think of Bonnie as family before tonight’s ep? Did Bonnie disabuse her of that notion? Was that the subtext of their scene? I mean, Elena got herself killed and got Jenna killed last season in order to save Bonnie. She really didn’t give a damn about Caroline. Bonnie almost died too but saving Elena wasn’t her only reason. Elena also excluded *only* Bonnie (and Jeremy) when she was trying to save Stefan because she was afraid for Bonnie’s safety.

    • Did she call Bonnie family in this ep? I know we’re supposed to see Bonnie’s declaration that Elena is like a sister to her as something that’s mutual between them.

      • No, I don’t think that Elena called Bonnie her family. That is why I was wondering if it was the subtext and not the text. It seemed like Elena kept trying to say that Bonnie and Jeremy were at the same level for her and Bonnie disagreed. And it does seem like a change from Bonnie’s previous position of them being sisters. If she still believes they are sisters, wouldn’t she think that Elena could be there for both Jeremy and her in equal measure or side with the injured party? She used to think that she could tell Elena anything. Plus, when Bonnie said that Elena couldn’t be mad at Jeremy, it reminded me that Elena has *never* been mad at Bonnie for even one sec. Not for lying about the Gilbert device, not for locking her in the Gilbert house, not for setting Damon on fire, not for anything. Also, the only people Elena has shown concern for (other than the Salvatores) without them being in direct danger are Jeremy, Jenna and Bonnie. I would say that Elena has actually shown more concern for Bonnie’s physical safety than for the Salvatores’ physical safety. That doesn’t mean that Elena has been a good friend to Bonnie. But I do think that Elena maybe treated Bonnie with the benign neglected that a lot of people treat family they take for granted.

        Wtvr. I am rambling. Plus, I am obsessed with Elena right now

        • If she still believes they are sisters, wouldn’t she think that Elena could be there for both Jeremy and her in equal measure or side with the injured party?

          Because they’re not actually sisters. Elena absolutely cannot relate to Bonnie the way she relates to Jeremy; the dynamic isn’t the same and the disagreements aren’t the same. It would not sound the same if Bonnie said the things Jeremy has said to Elena when he’s mad. Didn’t he once tell her to go to hell? Or am I making that up. Anyways, Elena siding with Bonnie and dissing him in support of Bonnie would affect Jeremy differently than if Elena is understanding or tries to understand Jeremy while Bonnie just vents her frustration to Caroline. The first option would affect the Jeremy/Elena relationship in a worse way than the second option would affect the Bonnie/Elena friendship.

          She used to think that she could tell Elena anything.

          I think that still holds unfortunately. Dating Elena’s brother was an unforeseen thing. She also didn’t tell Elena about her nosebleeds or that channeling all of that energy would kill her.

          I would say that Elena has actually shown more concern for Bonnie’s physical safety than for the Salvatores’ physical safety.

          And every time, it has made no sense.

          But I do think that Elena maybe treated Bonnie with the benign neglected that a lot of people treat family they take for granted.

          If only Bonnie would return the favor.

          • Because they’re not actually sisters. Elena absolutely cannot relate to Bonnie the way she relates to Jeremy;

            You are right about that but I don’t know if Elena was fully aware of that necessarily. A lot of people do treat their bffs like they were family until something happens that tears that illusion away. When it comes down to it, Jeremy comes before Bonnie no matter what. I think she actually needed Bonnie to point that out to her. Bonnie wasn’t living the same illusion. Maybe she was before but not anymore. Also, I don’t know if Elena is fully aware of how damaged her relationship with Bonnie is. I find it interesting that whenever Bonnie wants to talk to Elena, it is Katherine and when Elena wants to talk to Bonnie, she gets sidetracked or Bonnie doesn’t want to talk. Is Elena aware that Caroline has taken her place in Bonnie’s life? The other thing I find interesting (or sad – depending on your pov) is that Elena keeps coming to these epiphanies about families lately but that doesn’t lead her Jeremy or to fixing her relationship with Bonnie (or anyone she has known for *years*). It leads her Damon.

            • It leads her Damon.

              And we still don’t have a real reason for why it leads her to Damon. He’s her closest tie to Stefan, but the show never approaches it from that front, not textually. There’s supposed to be something between them and I do not get it, especially not when in s1, when Stefan was trying to explain why he hadn’t done anything about Damon messing with Caroline sooner, she basically told him that there was no excuse for that. I want to know what happened to that character because her choosing Stefan makes sense, only a certain degree, but Damon? I don’t get it. She seems to know what she needs to do, but doesn’t do it.

              • I suppose in some meta-y way you could say that Elena is like Stefan’s wife or common-law wife (which would make Damon her brother-in-law) after season 2. I mean, they owned property together and lived together.

                Idk. That is the best I can do. How is Damon her family exactly?

  19. Am I the only one who can’t tell the difference between the Stefan who was killing but had his switch on (pre-compulsion with Klaus), the Stefan who was killing with his switch off (post-compulsion) and the Stefan who is now letting *some* of his “humanity” back in?

    • Well I know the difference between the first two: ZINGERS. His humor was a lot dryer when his switch was on pre-compulsion. Then he started with his “mean girl” zingers. But beyond that, I do not know.

        • Maybe. The show isn’t usually that subtle and by subtle I mean the fact that the information was only communicated to Caroline and then was promptly not talked about between them. But if they were aiming for that, for acknowledging certain truths about Stefan, maybe.

          Am I the only one wondering why Caroline isn’t still struggling? Remember in the episode where she had to compel Liz, where she said that she would be trying to control those urges for awhile? Guess that doesn’t matter anymore.

          • Tyler is not really struggling either despite the fact that he is double the monster. I mean, it is tougher for him than it was for Caroline but he is still handling it better than Stefan did. The show is making deliberate choices. They can’t be blind to the fact that they have now *twice* introduced newly turned vampires who are not killing machines. Tyler will probably become one but it seems like there will be some resistance on his part. It is not like he is jumping at the chance.

            • Julie’s quote would suggest that they understand that Stefan is an anomaly, that vampires can adjust and quickly, and that murder isn’t necessarily all they are about, and that Stefan is actually a monster, made worse by other people’s desire for him not be monster (who knows how Stefan would have adjusted had Lexi not found/tortured him) and his ability to function within that desire. He benefits from it. He nourishes it. But he also hates it. That may be where they go with Stefan’s story.

              It still leaves me wondering whether Caroline’s and Tyler’s control is a productive of showing the difference or lazy writing. Because they don’t need to be killers, but their adjustment periods were incredibly brief. Are they on the same road as Damon? Immediate adjustment followed by a gradual degradation of character and control?

              • You know my choice is lazy writing. I think they’ve figured there are only so many ways they can show a struggling vamp. And there are when you take into a count the characters’ different personalities. But they seriously seem to reserve the struggle for newly turned vamps and Stefan. They just completely glossed over Tyler’s struggle with the explanation that Hybrids can just control it.

              • Are they on the same road as Damon? Immediate adjustment followed by a gradual degradation of character and control?

                I tend to think that if/when Caroline loses control she will be like a mini-Ripper. Idk. I think staying in control of herself is so important to her that if she ever lost control, she would go off the deep end. She couldn’t comprehend how Tyler could be ok with not having full control over himself in this ep. That seemed to be the sticking point – that he was ok with it – because she was certainly not ok with it when Damon was in control of her. Tyler was asking to her to understand something she couldn’t.

                P.S. I can’t believe I got sucked in by that JP interview for a little bit. We all know there is about a 90% chance it will turn out to be bullshit. Will I never learn? OTOH, the Romeo and Juliet B.S might happen with Forwood now because Tyler is with the “bad guys”.

    • Lmao. You’re not the only one, and I subscribe to the differences Olu mentioned. That’s it, basically. Stefan’s manner was the same pre and post compulsion. Being compelled only made him care less about Elena and Damon. That’s it. Because those two were the only ones he considered pre-compulsion. He already didn’t care about anyone else.

  20. Because of that quote and because I am weak, I broke my boycott (boycott of one) of JP’s twitter account. She posted the above clip yesterday. Um why? To remind us when Elena was more compelling? Also, now I am wondering how he was going to make sure that Vicki didn’t hurt anyone. What was he going to do if he didn’t kill her? His efforts at talking her into it didn’t work. *shudder*

    She asked people to watch the pilot right before the back-to-school ep aired earlier this season. That request was actually relevant to the ep. I wonder if the above clip is relevant to anything. I mean, Elena already let Stefan go in the last ep so…

    She also posted this

    Look at how normal and, dare I say, attractive IS looks at the beginning of that. What are they doing to him on the show? Maybe his skin tone can’t handle any makeup at all. The makeup department is messing with him/trolling him imo

    • Aw, when Elena used to care about people not the Salvatores. It started going downhill when she didn’t think about putting distance between her and Stefan after Vicky died.

      With what we now know of Stefan, we can say he was planning on torturing her like Lexi did him. *Shudder* Another dialogue from Stefan’s past that is now creepy as heck.

      I love seeing behind the scenes stuff like this where they show how they work the set.

      • Yes! Ugh, I was way disappointed, the first time around that Vicki’s death didn’t lead to a prolonged break up between the two of them. Of course I knew they were going to get together, but I was hopeful that the storyline would drive that point home more.

        With what we now know of Stefan, we can say he was planning on torturing her like Lexi did him. *Shudder* Another dialogue from Stefan’s past that is now creepy as heck.

        I said it in the below comment, but I’m not sure how likely Stefan torturing Vicki would have been. Maybe because he doesn’t seem to care for his torture, even when he’s “good”. He doesn’t talk about it. He doesn’t thank Lexi for it. Even during The Dinner Party, he just says he started getting better from that day forward or something. The way he’s compartmentalized it makes it necessary, but not worth mentioning. And while I can see that way of thinking about the torture, making it okay, I’m more inclined to believe that he’s more of a wait and see sort of person. Mostly because he didn’t torture Caroline and he avoided being violent with her. In fact he was very gentle, with the both of them (up until that moment he killed Vicki). Now who knows where that would have lead if she hadn’t gotten better, but he seemed willing to wait.

        So in a roundabout, I’m still up, and rambly way, I think torture was not Stefan’s first option/choice when it came to Vicki and/or Caroline. He could have come to that point, but I don’t think it was a definite.

        I guess I think this because Lexi seems to have gone immediately for the torture, from Damon’s lines in the Dinner Party and Ordinary People, instead of the trying to let Stefan adjust.

        • I read your comment and I agree. Maybe he would have held off on it, sort of giving Vicky (and Caroline) the opportunity Lexi never gave him (even though he didn’t ask for the opportunity, but I don’t think it can be argued Stefan might’ve turned out differently if Lexi had tried a less violent approach with him).

          • but I don’t think it can be argued Stefan might’ve turned out differently if Lexi had tried a less violent approach with him

            Do you mean he wouldn’t have ended up being less violent if Lexi had tried a less violent approach or that he would be relatively the same guy he is now?

            • I mean he wouldn’t have fallen off the wagon so often, probably wouldn’t have started keeping lists, and putting on facades if he hadn’t been tortured into acquiring a new personality and worldview.

          • Maybe he did ask for that chance and Lexi said, no? He probably would have been lying, but Lexi also would have assumed he was lying, so it’s double-edge sword.

            I think we talked about it once, how Stefan could have adjusted had Lexi not tortured him? I can’t remember what we said though. No torture = Stefan who is still a killer but without the periods of “goodness.” I don’t know. I think I get what you’re saying though.

            • Yeah, that’s what we said. Like, without the torture and left to his own devices, he might’ve been less erratic when he does kill because he wouldn’t have had to supress anything. Which reminds me…his eyes didn’t become veiny when he slit Lilah’s wrist and the blood started pouring out. Probably because he didn’t have to fight the bloodlust.

    • Given the context season 3 has provided us, Stefan would have tortured Vicki, but if we move back, to the context that s2 provided us, he would have hovered. Gone hunting with her for rabbits. Basically made sure that they were around each other enough that he could assist her, like he did for Caroline. I know Caroline was more receptive to his suggestions, but Vicki was more skeptical than dismissive. Plus, he was jumped immediately to animal blood for Vicki, but we know Caroline drinks human blood. So I think, without the context of s3, he would have just tried to be her friend. Especially considering, her reaction to being turned was similar to Stefan’s. Was in fact the closest we’ve come to someone matching Stefan’s transformation. And Vicki was able, to a point, to control herself. She controlled herself much longer around Jeremy and Matt than Caroline managed.

      So I’d say, even with the context s3 gives, he wouldn’t have necessarily tortured her, because I got the impression what Vicki needed was time, like Caroline was able to get. Like I said before, she didn’t reject the idea of not killing people. I was talking with a friend about how, given Vicki’s questioning nature post-death (“when was the last time you drank human blood?’ and the way she watched stefan glance at Elena before he answered) she would have been a good character to have around during one of Stefan’s breakdowns because she, moreso than Damon really, was skeptical about animal blood working.

      Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, maybe he would have tortured her, but I don’t think it was definitely where he would have gone, if he hadn’t ended up killing her.

      • I don’t remember if I’ve asked you this before (I’ve discussed this show for SO LONG) but what do you think of their decision to kill off Vicki so early. At the time, I remember thinking that (even though I didn’t like Vicki) she was a necessary character for the show. When she died, I thought they were going to replace her with a similar character down the line (ah, my TVD naive days). I don’t know what I thought. Maybe that Damon would get a wild gf down the line?? Vicki made both brothers more interesting or revealed things about them and she acted as a foil to Elena within that relationship for the brief time she was with them. Plus, she asked questions. Did Elena even press Stefan on the last time he drank human blood?

        • First time around, when I thought the show was good and that Vicki’s death was an example of the show being willing to go “there,” wherever there was, when it came to the stories. Now, since it didn’t actually lead to a prolonged break-up between Stefan and Elena, so there was no, for lack of a better phrase, teaching moment for Elena, you know? She back with Stefan in an episode or two and there’s no sense of what that death means to her (or more importantly to Matt or Jeremy).

          what I think the story could have done for her: So I think Vicki should have lived because, she was a foil to both brothers, and given what we’ve learned about Stefan, they, Stefan and Vicki, would have worked as post-transformation mirrors for each other. Plus, it would have been interesting to see vampirism shown as a positive thing for her. Yes, she lost a lot (no kids, probably no husband, the absence of guaranteed death as a concept, which is something this show could never handle, even at its best) but it presented her with a second chance in a way to be better, to be her best after working through her worst. At least, I think that is what the storyline for her could have been had she lived.

          for Stefan: And I think she and Stefan would have had interesting interactions because she asked questions (that seems to be a Donovan trait…imagine if, as friends, Matt and Bonnie, with maybe Jeremy too, just started investigating things? The seasons would have to be shorter because shit would get done, questions would get asked, shadiness would be double checked, and Bing would be utilized) where no one else really does. And, given what we know now about Lexi, she would have presented a nice counter balance in terms of friendship. Vicki would lack an idealized version of Stefan to want, since he already failed her, despite whatever efforts he made/would make to help her. I mean, the only person Vicki idealizes is Matt, so as a friend to Stefan she would notice without leaping to torture or trying to rationalize.

          for Damon: As far as her relationship with Damon goes, she probably wouldn’t have let her, despite the very real risk to herself, let him scare her and I think Damon needs someone, other than Bonnie, since he’s quite aware, especially now, that he can’t intimidate Bonnie, who knows he’s stronger but won’t bow down. Can you imagine, Vicki going to Stefan with something and then telling him not tell Damon because she was afraid? I’m not saying she had no reason to be afraid of Damon or that she’d make a stronger vampire than Caroline currently is, but I think she would have developed the confidence to go along with her outward attempts at strength.

          I haven’t quite thought about what her living would have done for Matt yet.

            • In terms of Elena’s relationships with the Salvatores? I think she would have been less dependent on them and they would have been less dependent on her. At least, they would have had to be if Elena had been able to maintain her relationships with Jeremy, Bonnie, and Caroline. Right when Jeremy needed Elena most, she checked out, but probably in an effort to keep Jeremy safe, she would have hung around him more and made it clear that she didn’t want Stefan or Damon at the house either, which, depending on how Vicki would have adjusted to attacking Jeremy, could have worked out without much trouble. At least, without the “Vicki attacking Elena” variety of trouble. In fact, maybe Elena would have either had to admit the “problem” of her carrying on a relationship with Stefan, when they eventually did get together, and trying to deny Jeremy the same.

              It would have forced Elena to be honest about what the Salvatores were because Vicki, more so than Caroline, was a direct result of that.

              There could have been more honest in the development of the relationships and the pacing of the show would have benefited from it (maybe) because everything coming out about the characters or happening with the characters would have been born from something outside of the ToD. Not so much that there wouldn’t be a ToD but that Vicki could have interacted with those 3 in a way that developed them as characters and caused them, in that development, to interact with people who weren’t each other.

              That’s a wonky paragraph. What I mean is that Elena, in getting away from Stefan and Damon, would have been able to consider the whole vampire thing outside of the idea of dating one. And Stefan would be around someone who didn’t idealize (or even villainize) him, but did ask questions that would suggest they didn’t buy his predominantly surface level interactions. Damon would have to deal with someone who wasn’t afraid of him or at least came at him, even from a position of disadvantage, so he could possibly into less of a “I have emotions people must die” reactive person. All of this is presuming the writers would let her do this Damon and have her live.

              I actually imagine a scenario where the show broke away from the ToD focus, so while there would probably still be a triangle, it wouldn’t be all there was for those three characters. And Vicki’s existence (or actually have Elena break away after Vicki’s death) would have done more towards making that happen.

                • But I love your rambling despite the fact that it is depressing me. The show could so easily be better or, at the very least, be coherent but it will never be.

              • I think she would have been less dependent on them and they would have been less dependent on her.

                I agree. I think Vicky living would have led Elena to spend more time with Jeremy to protect him, and she’d only have scenes with Stefan or Damon where she checks up on Vicky’s progress.

          • imagine if, as friends, Matt and Bonnie, with maybe Jeremy too, just started investigating things? The seasons would have to be shorter because shit would get done, questions would get asked, shadiness would be double checked, and Bing would be utilized

            Lol, true.

            I love everything you said, and I think it’s all in character for Vicky. *Sigh.*

  21. In this ep, Bonnie knew that Klaus was in the same house she was in. She also knew that Damon had a weapon to kill him. She knew there was a plan to kill him in progress. She did not try to get involved. She didn’t follow Damon. She didn’t insist that he let her into the plan. Nothing. Last season was a hallucination.

    • I don’t think her not being involved has anything to do with Grams. Or else she would have said it. Because I’m sure she’ll get involved when we come back. You know, when it’s convenient for the show and they can afford to share the heroic limelight with their ToD.

  22. Even though I don’t like Rebekah and Mikael was wasted, I was enormously relieved that they didn’t kill her off permanently. I am so sick of all the dead ladies. Seriously, why don’t they have Rebekah feeding off men?

    I wonder if anyone is going to bring up how Caroline couldn’t accept Tyler for the monster minion he is because of her hang ups after her father couldn’t accept her for the blood sucking monster she is because of his upbringing. Just wondering because Bill was the ~evol.

    I wonder if anyone is going to tell Elena that Damon attacked and almost killed one of her friends for no reason after he told her that she can trust him. Not that I expect her to have a reaction but I thought that was funny as hell. If he wanted Tyler out of the way, he could have snapped Tyler’s neck as soon as they walked into the room.

    Tyler seemed so out of it as he was carrying out Klaus’ wishes. He looked confused when Klaus asked him if he knew all the people at the party. This would also explain how chipper he was about the party being a wake. The guy is half gone.

    • I wonder if anyone is going to bring up how Caroline couldn’t accept Tyler for the monster minion he is because of her hang ups after her father couldn’t accept her for the blood sucking monster she is because of his upbringing. Just wondering because Bill was the ~evol.

      I feel that it’s different. I think what Caroline has a problem with is the fact that Tyler has no problem carrying out Klaus’ orders (or protecting him). I mean he panicked when his friends were in danger, but he didn’t seem to mind anyone else getting hurt should something go wrong. And by virtue of Klaus being Klaus (and the fact that he killed Elena, Jenna, and Tyler himself), people will get hurt. And he doesn’t seem to mind as long as he has control (even though he feeds on people who are willing. What if they ever change their mind, I wonder? He already killed a girl. My Fandom friend was talking about how interesting it was that Tyler has no hang-ups about killing people. He has no qualms about that girl he killed. Part of that might be the writers ignoring it but, unfortunately, that’s also now part of Tyler). We’ve never see any of the kids on the show be like that. Elena, Bonnie, et all implicitly agreed to let three people die to be able to take Klaus down, but none of them actually said they were okay with that as long as they got something out of it (and I think if push came to shove, Bonnie might take that pragmatic/utilitarian view considering what she did to Jeremy and Alaric).

      While Bill rejected Caroline despite her saying she wouldn’t hurt anyone.

      • While Bill rejected Caroline despite her saying she wouldn’t hurt anyone.

        But she does hurt people and she has no problem with it. After the Bill torture, she drank from a blood bag from a hospital. Those blood bags are there for a reason. She is ok with hurting people as long as it keeps her comfortable. She is ok with hurting people as long as she doesn’t have to see the damage. I don’t really see the difference between drinking from a person directly and drinking from a blood bag. Drinking from blood bags probably kills more people because sick people need those to stay alive. She doesn’t even need them to stay alive. She could stay alive on animal blood but that would not be comfortable. The people she hurts are faceless but they do exist. I loved how the camera closed in on that blood bag in Liz’s hand as if to remind me of that fact. Ugh! This show. It was probably unintentional.

        He already killed a girl.

        Did he? IIRC, we only saw him bite her. In this ep, he seemed to be against hurting other people but he said he couldn’t fight the “siring”. He brought it up to Damon and Matt. He also talked about drinking from compelled and non-compelled people to Caroline which implied to me that he only drinks from them. I will have to wait and see how he reacts to being forced to kill someone outright onscreen. He is probably fooling himself into thinking that he can deal with this by keeping some sort of balance like he tried to do in this ep.

        I think the purpose of that scene was to show Rebekah giving Tyler something that Caroline was unwilling to give. Now he can run to her after she is undaggered because Caroline is a buzzkill or something. Idk.

        Btw, there seems to be this theme of acceptance going on in the show, right? I can’t really make out what the point is. Everyone should accept everyone else or let go??

        • I don’t know why Rebekah would stop short of letting him kill the girl, considering we’ve seen her feed until the person was dead. Plus, when the vamp rushes at someone like that, they usually end up dead unless they’re a main character like Caroline in season 1 or Elena this season. I think if she was alive, they would have shown her at school or the dance with a bandaid on her neck.

          The show’s theme changes from episode to episode, I promise. If the theme is acceptance, then they are failing hard with Stefan. Lol. Acceptance, family, and choice are themes that crop up often but they are way too disorganized for me to feel confident talking about them. Especially when it comes to applying then to all of the characters. Like, we can say choice is something that factors heavily in Tyler’s story right now. It factored in Bonnie’s story last season (even though Elena hijacked it), along with acceptance (of being in the middle, of what she’s choosing to do). But Elena? Stefan right now? I mean his thing started as a choice and they destroyed that to say he was tortured into saying it was a choice.

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