Episode 52: Ordinary People

Episode 52

Spoiler chat: 09:39.875-20:35.531

In this episode, I’m asked to believe this is the first family in the history of civilization and magic who ever thought of using the craft to stay healthy, thus creating vampires. Sure. In addition, Rebekah is positively devastated to learn a member of her family could be so violent as to kill their own flesh and blood (where has she been?).

Rant: The super special Salvatores trump super special Elena always and forever.

Daniel Gillies interview

Casting news

Casting news 2

Episode titles for 3.10 and 3.11

Spoiler

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40 thoughts on “Episode 52: Ordinary People

  1. I hope they keep up with Elijah not vamping out or attacking humans. It’s an interesting layer to his character and does a lot to suggest his age.

    We’ve seen Rebekah kill humans, but have we seen her with the eyes yet?

    I got the impression that Rebekah had not yet joined with Klaus and Elijah, during Klaus. That the rest of their family was in fact alive, but not with them. So Rebekah was off somewhere doing her own thing, during Klaus. Then in The End of the Affair, I imagined that Elijah wasn’t there because of the falling out at the end of Klaus and that at some point between Klaus and the 20s, Rebekah had caught on to the fact that Klaus was killing everyone to get back at Elijah and approached Klaus as an ally, in order to avoid the same fate.

    Daniel Gilles is hard up over Elijah/Elena, so I take everything he says about Elijah wanting to protect Elena with a grain of ‘he knows what the show is about’ salt.

    Can’t stand that they downplayed the Elijah/Klaus relationship. They didn’t have to do that to make Rebekah/Klaus relationship work.

    Persia doesn’t really fit my image of Bonnie’s mom, but I’m cool with it. Wonder who her dad ends up being, if we’ll ever meet him. I’ve decided that the article is wrong.

    I’d prefer she was just a witch because the show wouldn’t be able to deal with the complexities of a witch being separated from her powers.

    I guess those are the repercussions of Klaus inhabiting Alaric’s body. I’m convinced they haven’t killed Matt off yet because Zach and Candice are together.

    Charismatic and troubled dude? That sounds interesting. There are people who think they just want to put Bonnie with a black guy? Okay. I agree with you. It’s a simplification.

    No one ever says they’re just bringing on white guys/girls for the white characters.

    Maybe Klaus’s pukka shells are his sun protection.

    I don’t get the labels, you know? There is no recorded/collected history for them to even call themselves the Originals. I hope there are vampires chilling in places laughing dryly about how the Originals think they are the Originals.

    Before this episode came along, I thought vampirism was an accident or punishment. That Esther went to a witch to fix her son and Klaus did something or Mikael did something to anger the witches or even that witches were punishing Esther for trying pervert nature and the result was vampirism.

    Who the hell were they supposed to be fighting for their survival?

    There are four family members who don’t speak ever. I did think Elijah came from money. I thought they were Europeans landowners. They were in America because of the caves. They needed the caves. They have caves now, Alta! They have caves!

    How were they even able to create these rules about honor and vampires not killing vampires?

    It burns her before she’s even a vampire. There is no internal consistency in the episode. Or maybe they really did just change the last page and a half of the script.

    Has it always been a talisman? Has it?

    They could have used Henrik’s death to create the rift between Klaus and Mikael. Like their relationship was tumultuous before, but Henrik’s death would have made it worse, Mikael could have blamed him. This could have been exacerbated by finding out Klaus wasn’t his on both their parts, Mikael finally feeling justified in his hate and Klaus finally feeling justified in his superiority.

    He killed his mother because Rebekah had to cry and identify with Elena.

    If they were going to make Esther a witch (descended from witches, so someone must have taught her something) and one willing to manipulate nature for personal gain, she should have been a bad witch.

    But Esther didn’t become a vampire. So we don’t actually know what happens to a witch once she becomes a vampire. I think powers would probably be stripped, but I like the idea of something remaining. Something to basically drive the witch or warlock to madness. At least that’s my head!canon. I feel like they could have easily explained the Originals walking in the sun and compelling other vampires as something that was the result of them being witches/warlocks. But they didn’t even try to suggest that Klaus, Elijah, or Rebekah had powers of any sort.

    Rebekah learning the truth because Elena can read cave symbols. Because Elena is an archeologist.

    The problem with TVD’s gotcha moments makes everything seem, not even seem, undeveloped. Because there is no development. There are simply plot points that do not matter at all. No emotional value because the emotional value must come across in the gotcha even though that makes no sense.

    Why does Esther want to kill Klaus? I honestly don’t have the energy to come up with an answer.

    I could have gotten attached to Rebekah if, having actually developed the story, she had shown up in the imaginary version of this season that exists in my head, when Stefan did, episode six. So instead of her telling the story and Elena hearing it, Bonnie would have heard it after summoning the Original Witch, because would be working in the background, making things happen. Not using Stefan to attack Elena in order to keep her distracted by his absence. Conveying the 20s flashbacks through Klaus, in one of his appearance. I imagine that he would have told Elena in order to make her doubt Stefan (“Why do you think you know him, again?”) and just to drop the information that he reunited the two lovebirds. Then blah blah blah, moving forward, we would have gotten hints about what Rebekah and Co. believe they know about what’s up with Klaus and yada yada yada, “Where’s my mother’s necklace?!?” during the prank night shenanigans. So I wouldn’t have been attached so much as invested. Since good storytelling, as crazy as it may seem to JP and KW, makes for a better story.

    It doesn’t make sense for the sun rings not to originate with Emily. If any witch can do it why don’t more vampires have sun rings?

    Other people owning the land before the Lockwoods came would make Damon not getting into the caves make sense.

    This fandom is so fucking gross. How dare people sympathize with Bonnie after her boyfriend cheats on her and lies to her and doesn’t consider her at all?

    I was surprised that Rebekah didn’t kill that girl she threatened to kill.

    “Why don’t you want me to wake him?” Does Elena have wax in her ears? Rebekah was pretty clear about the doom part. Elena needs to show fear around vampires. Not doubt, but fear. Because she rarely gets to be afraid.

    Elena was getting ready in Stefan’s room in the season premiere. Does Elena know? I mean Rebekah’s line is such a throwaway line, Elena is probably assuming Rebekah has a crush.

    If they want to do flashbacks someone should pick up a book, if they want us to know the characters are learning the information. They should use a word for information that only we as the audience are learning about.

    She doesn’t love too blindly considering how everyone in her life who she knew before the Salvatores do not get the same treatment.

    No one is addressing the fact that Stefan wants to kill people. Damon wouldn’t be saving him from anything.

    No one else’s family relationships are important either. Not Grams/Bonnie, or Anna/Pearl, or Matt/Vicki, or Caroline/Liz, or Tyler/Carol, or Elena/Jeremy. Nope. Those relationships mean nothing when compared to the Salvatores.

    Stefan didn’t even resist compulsion for Damon. He found a loophole. So he’s still done more, in the name of his love for Elena, than he has for Damon.

    I digress. We talked about it on Tumblr last night. There is nothing wrong with Damon and Stefan’s most important relationship being with each other. They are brothers. It’s been established for at least three other characters (Bonnie, Anna, and Matt) that their most important relationship is with a family member. The big problem is that Elena doesn’t get the same treatment. Her relationships with her family are not as strong as even Caroline’s relationship with Liz or Tyler’s relationship with Carol. And those two relationships don’t get half the exploration that Elena gets screentime. Her relationships are the Salvatores and that’s where the problem comes in. She doesn’t have to be meaningless in Stefan’s “recovery”. That says a lot less about the Salvatore brotherhood than it does about the writers’ inability to write complex relationships. Because there could be a version of this story where all forms of love are valued and held up without diminishing anyone. But why do that when there are two dicks in the room.

    I also realized the other day that I have more issues with fandom’s overwhelming “Stefan/Damon are the true otp and will triumph over Elena and their feelings for her” mantra than I do with the show. The show is a heavy-handed mess, especially when it comes to the Salvatore relationship. But this idea that Stefan and Damon (or any fictional siblings) should exist in a vacuum of their relationship is, at least in TVD’s (and SPN) fandom incredibly sad. Are Damon and Stefan never supposed to have relationships? Because as far as I’m concerned, Stefan and Damon aren’t going to walk into the sunset together. They can’t. Because their relationship is more complicated than that. It’s fucked up and that’s okay. It’s okay for them to be hot and cold in how they interact with each other. It’s okay for them to love other people and to choose other people.

    Elena needs to cut ties with Stefan and Damon. Cut the lines between them. She deserves better.

    Was Damon around the 20s? He was avoiding Stefan wasn’t he?

    Maybe people should stop letting her make plans.

    The scene in the torture chamber? I loved how Paul played it. It’s one of the more effective scenes he’s had this season.

    Good point about Lexi’s torture playing a part in Stefan’s all or nothing lifestyles. And about Damon being able to judge. As far as we know Damon has never killed an entire town. He can come from a place of judgement. It’s cool. Stefan was judging in s1.

    I get what you mean about compulsion. The body should feel it. Unless a vampire can compel someone to stay standing even after getting their legs cut off…which a vampire probably can’t.

    Mikael is not a good vampire hunter. How does he tell when someone is a vampire? Can he smell vampires? If so why didn’t he smell Klaus and Rebekah on Stefan? Why didn’t he notice his wife’s/Rebekah’s necklace in Stefan’s hands? He’s a vampire hunter my ass. Damon and Stefan randomly decided to go to that bar.

    I wish compulsion was still taken seriously. That’s what I was talking about before when I was asking what are the writers trying to say about people who can’t resist compulsion.

    I’m going to use the hiatus to rethink my relationship with The Vampire Diaries and to catch up on a bunch of older shows that I have been meaning to watch for a long time.

    • She did the eyes when she was telling Elena to shut up.

      I got the impression that Rebekah had not yet joined with Klaus and Elijah, during Klaus. That the rest of their family was in fact alive, but not with them. So Rebekah was off somewhere doing her own thing, during Klaus. Then in The End of the Affair, I imagined that Elijah wasn’t there because of the falling out at the end of Klaus and that at some point between Klaus and the 20s, Rebekah had caught on to the fact that Klaus was killing everyone to get back at Elijah and approached Klaus as an ally, in order to avoid the same fate.

      I like this explanation. And also before the 20s, she did get put on ice over and over because she said she made the mistake of disappointing Klaus many times.

      Daniel Gilles is hard up over Elijah/Elena, so I take everything he says about Elijah wanting to protect Elena with a grain of ‘he knows what the show is about’ salt.

      Ugh. This show can make me so bitter.

      I’d prefer she was just a witch because the show wouldn’t be able to deal with the complexities of a witch being separated from her powers.

      No they would not. They can’t even deal with a werewolf becoming a vampire.

      I guess those are the repercussions of Klaus inhabiting Alaric’s body. I’m convinced they haven’t killed Matt off yet because Zach and Candice are together.

      I was about to tell you that I didn’t understand. I thought you were talking about Matt Davis.

      There are people who think they just want to put Bonnie with a black guy?

      Yup.

      No one ever says they’re just bringing on white guys/girls for the white characters.

      Because that’s normal.

      Maybe Klaus’s pukka shells are his sun protection.

      LOL!

      I hope there are vampires chilling in places laughing dryly about how the Originals think they are the Originals.

      Lol. I guess they started calling themselves the Originals when they started making vampires.

      Who the hell were they supposed to be fighting for their survival?

      Can’t have been the werewolves because they were leaving peacefully with them, according to Rebekah. The producers probably put that in because Viking=fighting for survival. Who cares if it doesn’t make sense?

      They were in America because of the caves. They needed the caves. They have caves now, Alta! They have caves!

      I literally laughed out loud.

      How were they even able to create these rules about honor and vampires not killing vampires?

      Now that you’ve brought it up, what would be their incentive for not killing a vamp that went against them? Especially since they made said vamp. And especially considering their upbringing and how Mikael dealt with them.

      Has it always been a talisman? Has it?

      It has since season 3, episode 4.

      They could have used Henrik’s death to create the rift between Klaus and Mikael. Like their relationship was tumultuous before, but Henrik’s death would have made it worse, Mikael could have blamed him. This could have been exacerbated by finding out Klaus wasn’t his on both their parts, Mikael finally feeling justified in his hate and Klaus finally feeling justified in his superiority.

      That would have been great!!! And also would have required more than one episode in order to properly tell the story and establish the dynamics. Remember when they didn’t feel the need to rush the vampires’ backstories? Remember season 1 and how they didn’t explain Katherine/Damon/Stefan in one episode?

      He killed his mother because Rebekah had to cry and identify with Elena.

      He’s got a hold over Rebekah’s life now! Because, you know, those years of her being unable to leave his side unless she wanted to be stabbed was not him having a hold over her life. No, he only has one now that she finds out he’s been lying to her this whole time.

      But Esther didn’t become a vampire. So we don’t actually know what happens to a witch once she becomes a vampire.

      Rebekah says she’s not a witch because witches serve nature and vamps are abominations against it. My thing is, how did Esther know that her turning would be extra bad? Why didn’t she just ignore Ayanna all the way and turn herself too? Because the producers needed her to be able to make the rings? Just have them be able to walk in the sunlight! I also like your head!canon.

      Why does Esther want to kill Klaus? I honestly don’t have the energy to come up with an answer.

      Lol.

      I like your version of this season.

      It doesn’t make sense for the sun rings not to originate with Emily. If any witch can do it why don’t more vampires have sun rings?

      Because it’s not convenient.

      Other people owning the land before the Lockwoods came would make Damon not getting into the caves make sense.

      *Sigh*

      I was surprised that Rebekah didn’t kill that girl she threatened to kill.

      I thought she was going to go straight for the Black girl.

      Elena needs to show fear around vampires. Not doubt, but fear. Because she rarely gets to be afraid.

      Very true.

      Elena was getting ready in Stefan’s room in the season premiere. Does Elena know? I mean Rebekah’s line is such a throwaway line, Elena is probably assuming Rebekah has a crush.

      First of all, this show. Second, why hasn’t Elena asked Rebekah how she knows Stefan? Why hasn’t she asked why Klaus is so interested in Stefan? I mean this is beyond Stefan being indebted to Klaus (since that’s the explanation they’re all going with).

      She doesn’t love too blindly considering how everyone in her life who she knew before the Salvatores do not get the same treatment.

      Oh, I was totally talking about her love life. She’s not one who checks out, remember? And that again only applies to the Salvatores.

      I agree with everything. I never realized that Tyler/Carol and Caroline/Liz is better than the relationship Elena has had with any of her family members.

      I’m positive I’ve seen at least one person say Elena should understand what the brothers have gone through, understand what Katherine did to them and not do the same. So they basically want a girl, for Stefan at least, who will cherish the Salvatore relationship as much as they (Fandom) do. When it comes to Bamon, all I’ve seen people say on that front is that Bonnie wouldn’t incite fighting among the brothers, Damon would have someone who chose him, blah blah blah.

      Was Damon around the 20s? He was avoiding Stefan wasn’t he?

      He was around. Gloria said to him, “I see your brother’s still hanging with the bad crowd.” So he was definitely around even if he didn’t stay as long as Stefan. And now that I’m thinking about it, does that mean Damon knows the history between Klaus and Stefan?

  2. Now that you’ve brought it up, what would be their incentive for not killing a vamp that went against them? Especially since they made said vamp. And especially considering their upbringing and how Mikael dealt with them.

    Yeah, Mikael doesn’t seem to be the “it is dishonourable to kill another vampire type”.

    Remember when they didn’t feel the need to rush the vampires’ backstories? Remember season 1 and how they didn’t explain Katherine/Damon/Stefan in one episode?

    Can you imagine if they tried to explain Katherine/Damon/Stefan in one episode? Talk about a disaster avoided. The fact that they keep boiling these flashbacks/entire histories into one episode stories (not even the entire episode) is incredibly sad. Especially given their “gotcha” method of storytelling. If they spaced it out, the surprises would actually stick/make more sense/probably be more effective.

    First of all, this show. Second, why hasn’t Elena asked Rebekah how she knows Stefan? Why hasn’t she asked why Klaus is so interested in Stefan? I mean this is beyond Stefan being indebted to Klaus (since that’s the explanation they’re all going with).

    Why has no one, even in passing, suggested that Stefan finding Elena, after being friends with Klaus is the weirdest form of luck, on Klaus’s part, ever? That maybe it wasn’t a coincidence, even though it was. This storyline would have been more interesting if Stefan had remembered and that had made things awkward.

    I’m positive I’ve seen at least one person say Elena should understand what the brothers have gone through, understand what Katherine did to them and not do the same. So they basically want a girl, for Stefan at least, who will cherish the Salvatore relationship as much as they (Fandom) do. When it comes to Bamon, all I’ve seen people say on that front is that Bonnie wouldn’t incite fighting among the brothers, Damon would have someone who chose him, blah blah blah.

    How come no one talks about how the Salvatores need to take a beat for the sake of their relationship? No one ever says that, except for people who want Damon to choose Stefan over Elena. Which. No.

    He was around. Gloria said to him, “I see your brother’s still hanging with the bad crowd.” So he was definitely around even if he didn’t stay as long as Stefan. And now that I’m thinking about it, does that mean Damon knows the history between Klaus and Stefan?

    I meant in the sense of whether he and Stefan were hanging out with each other. If they weren’t, then Damon knowing that Stefan was in town and causing trouble would not necessarily mean that he knew about Klaus and Rebekah. And I’m going to fanwank that most of Rebekah/Stefan/Klaus happenings occurred away from the club, considering Gloria does not seem the type to let a bunch of killings go, no matter what her dealings with Klaus and Rebekah were at the time. The major events (meeting Rebekah, catching Rebekah’s eye for real, meeting Klaus, impressing Klaus, the end of the affair) occurred at Gloria’s.

    • Why has no one, even in passing, suggested that Stefan finding Elena, after being friends with Klaus is the weirdest form of luck, on Klaus’s part, ever? That maybe it wasn’t a coincidence, even though it was. This storyline would have been more interesting if Stefan had remembered and that had made things awkward.

      They could have wondered if Klaus had been keeping tabs on them this whole time through Stefan. Because what’s the explanation for how Klaus knew the doppel was in MF again? Did they ever give one or did Klaus just show up?

      Even the show keeps trying to lessen the amount of time they spent apart.

      • I think Klaus found Isobel, but that still doesn’t explain him having a reason to pursue her, in order to find Elena. Ugh, they could have done amazing things, if they wanted to pull a great big gotcha (their favorite story telling trope) and say that Stefan was working for Klaus the whole time and things got twisted once he actually fell for Elena (he still could have fallen for her) and he tried to change his mind but his loyalties were divided. Since they went through the trouble of having the two of them know each other beforehand.

        If they didn’t want to go with that route than someone at least could have asked the questions. Because there are so many questions that no one ever asks on the show. It’s sad.

        Even the show keeps trying to lessen the amount of time they spent apart.

        You mean Stefan and Damon? Yeah, it makes no sense because s1 was filled with the suggestion that they spent decades together at a time. That when they did spend time together the time was measured in, at most, months. The last time they saw each other before s1 was 15 years previous. That’s nothing for vampires, yeah, but it is a lot of time. Tons of stuff could happen in that time to limit their knowledge of each other. Stefan didn’t know Bree. I know they didn’t interact, but I’m going with the idea that he didn’t know each other. As far as I can remember, Damon had no idea that Stefan had a previous relationship with Sheila. So why must they be connected at every level now? It’s less interesting.

        • Oh that’s right. I guess he traced Katherine’s family line? I thought it was Isobel who found Klaus?

          Of course your idea is better than what played out (or didn’t play out).

          Yeah, Damon and Stefan. It is making everything less interesting.

  3. I haven’t watched it … yet, but I’ll give it a try to see if I could listen to the podcast without having to watch the show. This should be interesting. 😀 I may go back and watch the show later. 🙂

    LOL Daniel. “work harder than every other actor” Nice. \o/

    Awww sorry you’re not feeling well.

    HAHA Daniel! yes.

    BONNIE’S MOTHER. It was Lynn. I don’t see her as Bonnie’s Mom.

    Uh-oh. If they want to make a vampire/witch then bring back Greta or Bree. Just sayin’.

    It is weird. It’s incestuous. People are going to be making out with his wife … -_o

    Alta don’t get excited. You’ll only get hurt. You know that the titles have nothing with the episodes. I want it, but it’s not gonna happen.

    lol you hater. Matt/Bonnie. Y’all thought that was gonna happen.

    I’m tired of Bonnie and this revolving door or romance. This guy might die in her arms and she won’t be able to bring him back. Drama.

    Asian guy. 🙂 😀 yes. if the dude is Latin Trevino will cry. bet. I’m kidding.

    This show is horrible. smh

    TVD writers just write every episodes in a vacuum or something.

    They are the ones to write the history, that’s why they are the first. I bet people came before them in other continents.

    My dog is listening to the podcast. 🙂

    Vampirism is a punishment. To live forever to have to kill to survive. You’re basically be a human mosquito.

    They should have been in the UK. smh

    Wow I like your version better. Story time with Bonnie! MAKE IT SO!

    I mean they already had 7 children or whatever.

    Europeans and they’re diseases kill everyone/thing. rme

    When is this show going to end. smh

    Klaus was a beta wolf … *shrugs*

    Maybe Mikhael hates Klaus because he’s so stupid and weak.

    This is Esters curse! Bwahahahaha. Lame vampires for your lame ass.

    This is why Witches can’t be compelled. And how does compulsion factor into all of this.

    if she doesn’t want to spend an eternity alone THAN MAKE ANOTHER VAMPIRE!

    These writers are trolls.

    Bonnie should have kept the talisman. Never told anyone.

    This is just like Heroes.

    Alaric is and archeologist. The cave’s is the new tombs.

    Bonnie doesn’t need them. Why does Alaric know about what happened?

    WHAT! THIS FUCKING FANDOM! *side eying so hard*

    Julie plec cried! lol WHAT! I’m dying! what! lol

    These people I see right through them. *side eye*

    “Draw Anna” LMAO!

    Ooooooh Alaric was there! I forgot.

    Mike’s weapon is his penis.

    Privilege all over this place. I can’t.

    lol the wall … what

    “When all is said and done …”

    This show is trying to make the Salvatore as “epic” as the Winchester’s

    lol not crude at all. Truth!

    LMAO the relationship between the to penis is better than the relationship between the penis and vagina.” This how.

    This show is so horrible. Sexist and racist and ugh! gross.

    “No, Damon those are you plans.” oh smh.

    When Bonnie points out that Elena’s place are crap she’s going to be a bitch. 😉

    Now I can see why Stefan would want to kill himself in season 1. when you factor in what Lexi did to him. Stefan has compulsion issues.

    OMG more compelled girls!?

    “See that’s what I mean! You’ve given up.” What!

    Guys can resist compulsion but not girls or woman.

    He can’t find Klaus because Mike is a vampire hunter and Klaus is a hybrid … *side eye*

    I can’t stop rolling my eyes!

    was it the teaser?

    From what I saw in the picture of Elijah’s wig. He could get it in that wig. That is all.

    During the hiatus I’ll be watching The Walking Dead and MISFITS! \o/ and I don’t know what else.

    • My dog is listening to the podcast.

      Lol.

      Vampirism is a punishment.

      Not according to the show, not at its inception.

      if she doesn’t want to spend an eternity alone THAN MAKE ANOTHER VAMPIRE!

      For real.

      Why does Alaric know about what happened?

      What do you mean?

      From what I saw in the picture of Elijah’s wig. He could get it in that wig. That is all.

      Lmao.

      The trailer had Mikael saying he couldn’t dagger Klaus. Turns out I assumed wrong.

      • The trailer had Mikael saying he couldn’t dagger Klaus. Turns out I assumed wrong.

        Why can’t they just stay “Stab”

        Why does Alaric know about what happened?

        What do you mean?

        I meant why did he know/care about what happened with Jeremy/Bonnie? But then I remember he was there (telling the witches to shut up) when Bonnie professed her love for Jeremy and brought him back to life.

        Kat really needs to stop having chemistry with everyone.

  4. I hope you are feeling better, Alta.

    The DG interview is priceless. JP and KW must be cool bosses if their employees feel free to say stuff like that. Makes me like them, tbh. Maybe that was the point. Fans have been saying the same stuff forever. Now we can all feel heard and understood.

    It all comes down to a lack of specificity, right? Everything was so vague. Mikael hates Klaus because he is silly or something. What is that?

    I can buy that Elijah bought into his father’s vision of the family but they should have shown that somehow. Mikael treats Rebekah differently because she is a girl and she resents that? Why not show that instead of just having her talk about it? Idk. Off the top of my head, they could have had Elijah, Klaus and Mikael discussing something that affects the village in a room and had Rebekah eavesdropping outside because she is not allowed in. Klaus could have disagreed with his father with something and Elijah would have had wtvr reaction. That we would have gotten some idea on their diff philosophies. Actually, this could have happened while they were hiding out in the cave. That way the entire family could have interacted with each other at once. But I guess, they didn’t want to show us the other siblings for an OMFG!Twist later. I feel like just saying stuff is not enough. It has to be grounded in something specific. I wish they had given Rebekah a random friend in this flashback. Just some girl who was hanging out with her while she was talking with Klaus. That way, the same girl would have been shown rejecting Rebekah later. It would have helped me sympathize with Rebekah’s loneliness.

    Spoilers – I love the actress who is going to play Bonnie’s mom. Forever bitter that The Game got a second chance on BET but not Girlfriends. She is too young though. She will probably show up in ep 12 instead of ep 10. They are always putting off Bonnie stories or cutting them. I want her to be a vampire!witch if there is a twist to it. Like if she got some of her powers back because the dead witches need her for something but her powers are corrupted or diff because of the vampirism. But since this show can’t do nuance, I will go with witch only.

    Hey, what is Hollywood without nepotism? Amirite? I actually have no issues with them hiring their wives/husbands because this show isn’t shooting in these people’s home towns or even LA or NY or someplace else you can reasonably expect a young tv actor to settle down. That is my impression of it anyway. .

    Bonnie is saved from Matt. LOL. Poor Matt. No one wants him with their fave girl. I am rooting for Matt/Katherine right now.

    My theory on the origin of vampires in season one to early season two – I thought a witch created vampires as protection. I thought a group of witches were at war with a group of werewolves and that they created vampires as weapons. My thinking is that they may have even turned some of their own family members for this purpose. They probably did this against the wishes of other witches. I thought all the vampires’ weaknesses (sun, vervain and werewolf bite) were unintended consequences of the spell or a way for nature to create a balance. I thought these witches then lost control over the vampires or that the spell made them bound to vampires in an unusual way (because they were family?) instead of giving them control over vampires. I thought we were seeing a diluted version of this bond in the recent witch/vampire teams. But this was back when my head!cannon was that witches can’t take a life or protect themselves. I figured that since they can’t kill, they created killing machines as a weapon or tried to give themselves the ability to kill. Anyway, the show did say that Bonnie can kill even though we haven’t seen it yet so my idea of witches needing protection or a weapon from an enemy wouldn’t really work

    I suppose Mikael could have been referring to the difficulties of starting a settlement in a foreign land. They had to figure out what to grow and how to grow it. They have to manufacture all the goods they need themselves from materials they might not be familiar with. Plus, Mikael left his home because of a plague or something and got on a really long boat ride to another land. I bet everything feels like a struggle for survival to him now. I wish they had gone into that more. As it stands, he looks crazy. He was mad for no reason all the time.

    Mystic Falls has to be everyone’s hometown. That is why the Originals are from America. I swear, this whole story is happening inside Elena’s head. That is why the history is all wonky. She is a bad student.

    To be fair, we don’t know how much time passed between when they turned into vampires and when things completely fell apart. There was that little montage of Rebekah finding out all the crappy parts of being a vampire little by little. I bet it took some time for Esther to come up with the rings too. Mikael could have tried to institute a set of rules for being a vampire during that time. Maybe Elijah is the only one who truly followed them or believed in them.

    Alta, you know that something doesn’t count until Europeans discover it. Yes, other people already discovered America before the Vikings but were they white? No. There is your answer. Why would Elena ask if the neighbors Rebekah was referring to were Native Americans? You know the show doesn’t like to talk about that kind of stuff.

    HDU! I don’t see race. Why are you so obsessed with it? So what if some people are invisible. Other people are very visible. Why can’t you see them all as just people? This show is made for white people and you know how ALL white people don’t like to be bothered with *those* kinds of people. It is just not entertaining for them to see the history of non-white people talked about on the show. You should watch the History channel or go to the library for that. Only “white” history belongs in entertainment. Go raise millions of dollars, abandon you current job/career and build your own studio if you want the stories of those kinds of people told. Segregation now! Separate but equal is the way to go. Some of these kinds of fan reactions would be funny if they weren’t so sad and scary. But they are also just buying into what the show is selling.

    Not only did we see other werewolves get aggressive after they turned but we also had Mason tell Tyler that the anger issues started for him before he fully transformed. So we had *two* examples of werewolves, pre-transformation, either talking about being aggressive or being aggressive. We also had an example of a father/son werewolf relationship with Tyler and Mayor Lockwood (I always forget his name). Tyler was submissive to his dad probably because werewolves immediately follow the closest alpha male(??). However, Tyler was aggressive in other ways to other people so Klaus being all submissive and playful all the time doesn’t make sense. They should have shown him causing trouble in the village. That way Mikael’s attitude towards him would have made some sense.

    Lol. I just now realized that becoming a vampire probably enhances the pack mentality of wereolves. That is probably why it is so rare. It only happens when a latent werewolf has been turned. Oh, this could mean that there are other old Hybrids out there. Do you think Esther’s spell only suppressed Klaus’ werewolf side or the werewolf sides of all Hybrids (if my theory if correct)? It would be funny if one of the Originals accidently turned one of their “neighbors” and Klaus gets some competition as the pack leader.

    Esther was all but invisible in the flashback even though everything hinged on her and her relationship with Klaus. She should have been the most interesting character in the flashback.

    Where is Ayanna’s family? Did she follow these Vikings all by herself? Why do the Originals feel free in asking her for huge favors like this? The whole thing is rubbing me the wrong way. They didn’t even frame it as protection for the entire village to entice her. They didn’t say something like, if it works for us, we can use it on others and we can be safe forever and won’t have to struggle so hard to eke out a living in this new place.

    I like that all the parts of nature they used to gain power turned on them

    Lulz. So, according to some parts of fandom, abusive relationships are ok as long as it is within a family?? Hilarious. Rebekah is strong but Elena is weak for the same thing?? I think it is just another way to hate on Elena. The hate for her is strong. It is the only reason I am trying to hold back on my hate. It is all too much. The Salvatores trump everything. This is reminding me of all the sexism in SPN fandom. The Salvatores had 145 yrs to figure out their relationship but they haven’t. People really think that they are going to walk off into the sunset together? Really? If Elena did not exist, I don’t think they would even be together now – even after Damon didn’t find Katherine in the tomb. Maybe some of these people want to fantasize about the Salvatores without a girl there ruining things. Idk. What is this? Maybe some of the fans of the other girls resent that she is the lead because they find Bonnie and Caroline more interesting. Ok but she is not going anywhere and I would rather the show fixed her.

    Maybe Esther put a spell on the girl to keep her docile. As for Mikael, maybe Esther helped him turn and he was already full? That is the best I can do.

    “I reject all of this.” I love you

    “Ancient Lockwoods”? There were “Lockwoods” in America 1000 yrs ago? Lol. JP and KW deserve to get eleventy million tweets of “Say Native American. Say it.”

    People aren’t all that into Jeremy. Let’s get real. How many Jeremy fans did you see before this? These people don’t like Bonnie. Period. Full stop. They makeup non-sensical excuses all the time but that is what it comes down to. I don’t know if it is because she challenged Damon early on (this is a big one for a lot of people) or if she is just too “uppity” or what. Last season, people on TWOP were dissing KG hard for her acting ability. I was still in my semi-polite stage and I was like, do you guys not see IS, SM and ZR? I mean, come on. Now they are against someone saying a simple “how are you” to her. They can’t even tolerate someone exchanging simple pleasantaries with her. She is not allowed *any* flaws. More than that, she is expected to be accomodating of other people’s flaws. Nothing should hurt her. She should be an emotionless automaton. These people need to take a hard look at themselves, tbh. It is not like she is a rapist or a murderer like some other characters. I wish Elena made more sense and Bonnie/Elena were closer so that I could be all “Team Belena rules! The Salvatores are so lame.” all over the place just to annoy people.

    I love your idea of the flashback being told from Esther’s (or even Ayanna’s) POV through Bonnie. Esther is really the most important person in the flashbacks and Bonnie is the only one who can contact her.

    Rebekah/Elena scenes were a mess. They both looked ridiculous. Why show? Damn! Can they not pull off smart and insightful without it becoming ridiculous? Are they telling us that Rebekah is that lonely? Why? Was she lonely in her human life and it got intensified when she became a vampire? Ugh! Why didn’t they have Elena be an obstacle or an asset to Rebekah’s quest to be a Queen Bee? Heck, why didn’t they have Elena create an obstacle for Rebekah to mess with Rebekah’s head a little? Make her feel worse about herself or lonelier or soemthing. Elena should know the high school and the people in there waaay better than Rebekah. She hasn’t been going there regularly for a while but she was once very popular and she still has at least one popular ally (Caroline) and Bonnie who might still be popular (idk) and a witch. They could have cooked up something together and we could have gotten a glimpse of pre-car crash Elena – the person whose very existence made Caroline feel like shit. But I guess, Elena is determined not to bring them into these things if she can help it. I don’t understand why though. She is ok with Damon getting into these things and she supposedly loves him or likes him or wtvr.

    Is Elena on a villain’s journey? The opposite of a hero’s journey? She is self-absorbed and oblivious to her own monstrosity. She has this false idea of herself based on what she is supposed to be or something. Plus, they have established Katherine as a “villain” and are putting Elena through so much Or maybe the show doesn’t have a good idea of who she is supposed to be.

    So here is the thing – if the Salvatore brothers’ relationship trumps Delena and Stelena, what is Elena’s version of the Salvatore relationship? Nothing. The way they setup the show from the very beginning is very problematic. Why isn’t Caroline or Bonnie or Jeremy a lead so that there is a counterbalance to the Salvatore relationship?

    Oh God! I am dying of laughter at your frustration with the Stefan compulsion. It is all so so ridiculous. I can’t take it.

    Btw, did you know that the title of this ep is also the title of an old movie? I barely remember watching it. It made no impression on me but it is apparently a famous/critically acclaimed movie. Maybe I was too young to really get it. It was just some movie on late night tv for me. The only similarity I can think of is that both involved a boy’s death and his brother being involved in that death. I have been meaning to rewatch it so thanks for reminding me, show.

    You guys, I am caring less and less about this show. I am approaching complete apathy. At this point, I am way more invested in reading fan reaction than watching the show or following any interviews/articles about it. It is fascinating stuff. It is interesting what people see or *don’t* see and what *I* see or don’t see. Everyone is watching the same thing but seeing a diff story. What is also interesting is how the people with the show try to manipulate the fans and how the fans respond to that. There was this one poster (CMonster) on TWOP who used to post in the spoilers thread. He/she seemed to be from the show or network. Like she/he was there to manage us. Maybe she was faking but she did a good job of it. As soon as she would show up, my former fandom friend and I would immediately withdraw from the spoilers thread because we felt weird. She wasn’t one of us. You know what I mean? However, a lot of other people would hang on every word. Are there any studies on this? If there aren’t, there really should be.

    I will probably try to get into Grimm from NBC and Homeland from Showtime during the hiatus. I am not sure about Homeland though. I really LOVED the pilot but that show has the potential to be severely problematic. We will see. Unfortunately, there aren’t any shows that I absolutely love right now. Nikita and Fringe come the closest but I am not really all that fannish about them. There are other shows I like – The Good Wife, Parks and Recreation, Psych, etc etc – but I wouldn’t even blink if they got cancelled. I am a casual viewer of all of them.

    • I hope you are feeling better, Alta.

      Thanks, Susan. My throat doesn’t itch anymore and I’m not as stuffy, but I’m still sick.

      Off the top of my head, they could have had Elijah, Klaus and Mikael discussing something that affects the village in a room and had Rebekah eavesdropping outside because she is not allowed in. Klaus could have disagreed with his father with something and Elijah would have had wtvr reaction. That we would have gotten some idea on their diff philosophies.

      This would have been good. We could have seen the traits Rebekah spoke of manifest within the family and see how the other family members reacted to that. Because just when did Klaus stop tolerating those who disappoint him? This is what I mean. When did Klaus get the way he is now? It’s like he developed a new personality after he transitioned. One that has no relation to who he was as a human.

      I thought a group of witches were at war with a group of werewolves and that they created vampires as weapons.

      Ooo, that would have been interesting and actually would have told us how witches and werewolves feel about each other, even if it was in the past.

      Mystic Falls has to be everyone’s hometown. That is why the Originals are from America. I swear, this whole story is happening inside Elena’s head. That is why the history is all wonky. She is a bad student.

      Lol.

      Alta, you know that something doesn’t count until Europeans discover it. Yes, other people already discovered America before the Vikings but were they white? No. There is your answer.

      Ugh.

      You should watch the History channel or go to the library for that.

      Or turn on BET.

      Oh, this could mean that there are other old Hybrids out there.

      I would need them to explain just how many werewolves are left and when they went almost extinct. But it would make sense if Klaus, while waiting to break the curse, tried to make other Hybrids. But we’re supposed to buy that this is the first time he’s ever tried. I mean he could tried to turn some werewolves into vampires and if he succeeded, he could’ve killed them because he’s not going to have Hybrids running around when his werewolf side is still locked up.

      Esther was all but invisible in the flashback even though everything hinged on her and her relationship with Klaus. She should have been the most interesting character in the flashback.

      THIS! Every witch who’s been subservient to a vamp has had more presence than her. Even Maddox.

      Where is Ayanna’s family?

      A question like that has no importance.

      I think it is just another way to hate on Elena.

      I think it is too.

      JP and KW deserve to get eleventy million tweets of “Say Native American. Say it.”

      Lmao!

      These people don’t like Bonnie. Period. Full stop.

      Yes, because I want to know where these people are when Damon is breaking Jeremy’s neck or smashing his head on a picnic table.

      She is not allowed *any* flaws.

      And then I see other people dissing her saying she has no flaws and she’s a badly constructed character.

      Can they not pull off smart and insightful without it becoming ridiculous?

      No. Do you remember that scene between Katherine and Isobel?

      what is Elena’s version of the Salvatore relationship? Nothing.

      Because they aren’t invested in any relationship that’s from her point of view. Delena is from Damon’s point of view. Stelena from Stefan’s. Bonnie/Elena is used when she needs a break from her ships.

      Hmm, I’ve never heard of the movie, but there was a Charmed episode called Ordinary Witches. Maybe it was a “pun” on the movie title. They did that a lot.

      Be back later for the rest of your comment!

      • Oh, this could mean that there are other old Hybrids out there.

        I would need them to explain just how many werewolves are left and when they went almost extinct. But it would make sense if Klaus, while waiting to break the curse, tried to make other Hybrids. But we’re supposed to buy that this is the first time he’s ever tried. I mean he could tried to turn some werewolves into vampires and if he succeeded, he could’ve killed them because he’s not going to have Hybrids running around when his werewolf side is still locked up.

        I was actually referring to siring in that incoherent paragraph. I was wondering if siring only happens when a not yet transformed werewolf is turned into a vampire. Maybe they can be turned before they transition to full werewolves. But because of the curse (which, in my theory, unintentionally affected all potential Hybrids) their werewolf half was kept dormant by the curse despite killing humans until the curse was lifted. Maybe like witch!vamps, the could only be werewolves OR vampires until now. Werewolves do have some sort of pack mentality in this show, right? That is what I got from Jules’ obsession with helping Tyler and Brady’s obsession with avenging Mason. I was wondering if that pack mentality is intensified when a werewolf is turned into a vampire and that is what is called siring.

        As for Klaus not trying to create Hybrids, why would he want to create hybrids before he became a full hybrid himself. Wouldn’t he feel like even more a freak if he created beings who could be what he couldn’t? Isn’t that a little like a lonely megalomaniac unicorn with a missing horn creating another unicorn with an intact horn? Am I making sense? He is way too self-obsessed. It makes sense to me that he would try to fix himself first. I don’t think his ego could take the sight of another Hybrid while he couldn’t be a full one himself. Besides, Klaus is not that methodical. idk if I am explaining myself correctly but it doesn’t bother me that he hasn’t tried before.

        • Come to think of it – Klaus probably knew that the curse was on ALL potential Hybrids or Hybrids. It wasn’t specific to him. That is why all new hybrids need the doppelganger’s blood to complete transition.

        • From the way Damon explained it (you know, that vague way?), siring doesn’t seem isolated to werewolves only. Ignoring the fact that the show hadn’t thought of it before, it’s possible Anna might’ve sired Ben. Dude was very eager to do what she said even though he didn’t know all the details.

          Your explanation on why Klaus wouldn’t try to make Hybrids makes sense.

          Werewolves do have a pack mentality (though you would forget it since Tyler sold out those werewolves in Tennessee). Jules talked about honor and protecting each other, etc.

          • it’s possible Anna might’ve sired Ben. Dude was very eager to do what she said even though he didn’t know all the details.

            I guess what I am wondering is – Is it possible that Ben had the werewolf gene but never fully transformed and that is why he could be “sired”?

            • Is it possible that Ben had the werewolf gene but never fully transformed and that is why he could be “sired”?

              If the writers wanted to remember s1 suddenly, they could make the siring storyline work, but there’s still the question of when siring happens in just a regular vampire. Since werewolf packs, seem dependent, but not entirely loyal, to each other, even if loyalty is important. Brady and co didn’t act like they were beholden to Jules, the way Tyler has behaved towards Klaus. So the show would also have to address why siring would occur in someone with the werewolf gene, towards someone without it. Because it would be rare if it was, in the past just one group of vampires who were oddly loyal to each other, in order of who was turned. Well, it would rare, but it would be a lot more specific in explanation than “it’s really rare.”

              • Since werewolf packs, seem dependent, but not entirely loyal, to each other, even if loyalty is important. Brady and co didn’t act like they were beholden to Jules, the way Tyler has behaved towards Klaus. So the show would also have to address why siring would occur in someone with the werewolf gene, towards someone without it.

                I was thinking that becoming a vampire would intensify those natural pack instincts 10 fold or something. Like even though Ben never fully transformed, he still had some natural werewolf instincts before being turned into a vampire. But I guess that shouldn’t work if the “sire” didn’t have the werewolf gene also like you’ve mentioned. For my theory to work, Anna would have to have the werewolf gene too.

  5. It took me awhile to figure out that this comment should go here.

    In “The Sun Also Rises,” Klaus has to kill a werewolf, a vampire, and the doppelgänger, right? Assuming the writers didn’t just forget about that, did Esther kill one of her other children, while trying to control the physical nature of another, in order to prevent Mikael from finding out she cheated on him? Because that’s pretty messed up.

    There’s a huge question concerning the ritual performed on Klaus since 1) he would have had to kill someone to trigger the werewolf curse, 2) was he the one who ended up killing that girl? (never mind, since they only had to wait for the full moon to come around), 3) they would have had to already have turned other people into vampires at that point, unless of course, Esther did kill one of her other children in order to make the curse work, 4) Esther would have had to capture/lure a werewolf, during the full moon, in order to kill him, and 5) Am I only succeeding in confusing myself?

    • Assuming the writers didn’t just forget about that, did Esther kill one of her other children, while trying to control the physical nature of another, in order to prevent Mikael from finding out she cheated on him? Because that’s pretty messed up.

      Do you mean that she must have killed a vampire to make the curse work and that vampire would have been one of her kids? If so, I don’t think so. The number of caskets that Klaus had + him and Rebekah makes six. That is the number of kids left alive after Henrich(sp?) died. I don’t know about the werewolf. Maybe they did capture and kill a werewolf to make the ritual work. Wait. Are you talking about before she had Klaus? What nature would she have been trying to control?

      • If she didn’t kill one of her kids, I’m trying to figure out where Esther found a vampire to cast the spell, since Rebekah mentioned nothing about them figuring out how to turn people into vampires. And how she managed to get a werewolf to go along with her.

        I’m talking about the curse she cast on Klaus. She knew, before Mikael killed him, that he was a werewolf. Then, because his werewolf side was trying to come out, she put the spell on him, in order to keep his “nature” a secret, instead of just…letting him die. I don’t know. I’m mostly curious about where the vampire who was originally sacrificed came from.

        • Does the original curse have to the be the same as the ritual to break it?

          I am assuming that Esther created another vampire to sacrifice just like Klaus made Jenna into a vampire. Maybe it was a family member of Original Doppelganger.

          She knew, before Mikael killed him, that he was a werewolf. Then, because his werewolf side was trying to come out, she put the spell on him, in order to keep his “nature” a secret, instead of just…letting him die.

          Why would he die? I thought Rebekah said that everyone knew Klaus was a hybrid after his first kill. I assumed that his werewolf side fully came out. How else would Rebekah have known about it? Isn’t that how Mikael found out that Klaus is not his son. The curse came later. I don’t think Klaus was in danger of dying. Rebekah said that Esther did it out of fear but she never explained what Esther was afraid of. Mikael? Other witches/witch spirits who didn’t want Klaus to exist?

          • Does the original curse have to the be the same as the ritual to break it?

            In my opinion, all the parts that involve blood (doppelgänger) or death (doppelgänger/vampire/werewolf) seem pretty necessary, and maybe I’m imagining it but I thought there was supposed to be symmetry to the two spells.

            I was saying that she should have just let him die/killed him instead of putting the curse on him. Or she should have never put the curse on him. If Mikael was just going to know then I don’t get why the curse was necessary. I am slowly but surely confusing myself. Basically, this storyline makes no sense with Esther as the witch who cursed Klaus.

            Re: Rebekah, I assumed, since she wasn’t there at the ritual, that Klaus told her (explaining why their mother cursed him) later. Because I can’t imagine that he would have willingly gone with his mother to get cursed, if he killed her afterward and the show is framing his murder of her as deliberate and a response to being cursed.

            Events, in my head…sorta:

            1) Klaus makes his first kill as a vampire and experiences the gold eyes thing,
            2) his mother notices/realizes what’s up
            3) Esther tells Klaus she can/needs to help him. He’s…doing whatever because the writers failed on the whole showing us Klaus’s feelings about being a werewolf front
            4) night of the full moon, Mikael goes to figure out what’s up, since Esther and Klaus are gone
            5) Esther tries to curse Klaus, he figures out what’s going on, but it’s too late, Mikael is there, realizes what’s up, it’s too late, Klaus kills his mother because Mikael can do anything

            and so on. Though I’m not sure if what I just typed up makes sense.

            • If Mikael was just going to know then I don’t get why the curse was necessary. I am slowly but surely confusing myself. Basically, this storyline makes no sense with Esther as the witch who cursed Klaus.

              I just rewatched the clip on yt. Esther did put the curse on Klaus because of Mikael but Mikael already knew by then?? She said that Klaus became Mikael’s greatest shame. Rebekah made it seem like Esther did the curse and turned her back on Klaus inorder to make things right with Mikael and to prevent Klaus’ death. Maybe she thought that if Klaus’ difference wasn’t visible, Mikael would accept him. Rebekah also made it sound like Mikael on a rampage because of this stuff – because his pride was wounded.

              Everything is super vague. I can’t figure out the sequence of events. My guess is that Klaus getting cursed and him killing his mother were two separate events because Rebekah talked about Esther turning her back on him as if it went on for some time.

            • 5) I don’t think Mikael was there when Klaus killed Esther. If he was, wouldn’t he have done something to Klaus right then. How did Klaus manage to stick around to bury his mom and hangout with this siblings in the village if Mikael was chasing him from the moment Esther was murdered? But then, how did Mikael know that Klaus was the one who killed Esther if he wasn’t there? Did Klaus manage to trap his father somewhere?

              Idk. I am trying to think this through.

              • How did Klaus manage to stick around to bury his mom and hangout with this siblings in the village if Mikael was chasing him from the moment Esther was murdered?

                Mikael wasn’t in the village. Rebekah said he went on a rampage when Klaus became his greatest shame and then left.

                You know what they should have done? Had Klaus or Mikael articulate the true events because Rebekah got most of her story from Klaus. So now we’re confused about what went down. Rebekah thinks Mikael went on a rampage because of his shame, but he probably went on a rampage because of Esther’s death. But from the way Rebekah told it, it seems Esther was still alive during Mikael’s rampage because she said he killed Esther because of it.

        • I’m mostly curious about where the vampire who was originally sacrificed came from.

          The producers forgot. Because it had to have taken them a while to figure out they could turn people. Had to.

          But… maybe she didn’t have to kill a werewolf and a vamp to cast the spell. Maybe that’s only required for the reversal? Maybe she only spilled the blood of a Petrova.

          I really hate this origin story, you guys.

          • But… maybe she didn’t have to kill a werewolf and a vamp to cast the spell. Maybe that’s only required for the reversal? Maybe she only spilled the blood of a Petrova.

            There are way too many maybes involved with this plot. It hurts my brain.

            I really hate this origin story, you guys.

            As we all should. It makes no sense.

      • How can the origin story of freaking vampires even take place in one episode?

        This is the Vampire Diaries! Where a million things happen in an episode so no one realizes that only two things actually happened and they are the same to things from the week before and the week before that. Surprise! Gotcha! Someone unimportant died!

  6. This reply is way late.

    Gotta love Gillies’ bluntness.

    I don’t mind the Elijah/Elena relationship per se but it’s annoying that it’s basically all about Elena being even more of a special snowflake.

    It’s weird that Elijah wasn’t that much in this episode, given that he’s JP’s favorite character.

    I want Bonnie’s mother to be just a witch, too.

    Is Mary going to be a new love interest for Alaric? Why, show, why?

    “Our Town” – after Thornton Wilder’s play? Hmmm …

    Yeah, I feel like the writers count a lot on us, the audience, not remembering things or being confused enough that we don’t notice certain things. But I also feel like that the writers themselves often forget things and are also confused by their previously established mythology.

    Klaus’ family being the first family to use witchcraft to stay healthy/live forever and thus becoming the first vampire is ridiculous und completely unbelievable. Worst vampire origin story ever. I hate it. And I don’t buy into for a second. These people are not the first vampires. (And I’m pretty sure, give it 2-3 seasons, the writers will retcon this too. There will be older vampires.)

    When the “Original family” was mentioned for the first time in “Rose”, I thought the show would go with one of these two options:
    a) go the book route (yeah, I admit it, I read the first 4 books) and have the Originals be a completely different species that has existed since the beginning of time
    b) have the Originals be these small group of people that were not related and that were turned into the first vampires at the same time. After being turned into vampires, they would come to consider themselves to be a family but there would also be this hierarchy among them and they’d still have all these rules, since they would be no real family after all. I thought this would be so interesting and allow for complex relationships. But yeah, then “Klaus “happened. – Oh, and somehow I thought that their vampirism was an accident, I don’t know why.

    I think the writers have completely forgotten that all Originals are supposed to value honor and that they are supposed to have these rules amongst themselves. Now it’s just a personal trait of Elijah. He is the moral one in the family.

    Yes, it is a very Euro-centric point of view.

    Didn’t Elijah say in “Klaus” that Klaus and their father didn’t get along well? It sounded like they clashed. It definitely didn’t sound like what we saw in this episode.

    I saw some of these posts criticizing Alaric for calling Jeremy an idiot, too. This fandom.

    I think you’re right and this stuff about loving “blindly and recklessly” is about Elena/Delena. But I could see the writers thinking that Damon is also a person who loves blindly – as a euphemism for his obsessive way of loving. (Especially when it comes to his love for Katherine in 1864, since he knew that she had also something going on with his brother.)

    I hate how one love has to trump another on this show.

    Poor Elena, nobody really cares about her. Neither the writers nor the fandom.

    Aside from TVD, I’m only obsessed with one other show, Game of Thrones. As for shows I‘ll be watching during the hiatus: I’m still enjoying Revenge. I’m still watching Ringer/The Secret Circle, although I’m still meh about them (especially about TSC since they’ve introduced that horrible, terrible Jake character, who I feel is like always on screen) – but I guess they are also on hiatus now. I’ve recently started watching Once Upon a Time, not too sure about that show yet. I may catch up on Nikita. I’ve started to slowly catch up on Supernatural. Ironically, I had originally quit the show the episode before Sebastian Roché started guest-starring. I guess that’s it.

    • I don’t mind the Elijah/Elena relationship per se but it’s annoying that it’s basically all about Elena being even more of a special snowflake.

      She didn’t do anything to catch Elijah’s attention. She looks like Katherine and she’s “nice” the way Katherine was in that Klaus flashback. Daniel Gillies said something like, Elijah can predict everyone else’s actions, but he can’t predict Elena, and that’s refreshing. He said something similar to that.

      “Our Town” – after Thornton Wilder’s play? Hmmm …

      What is it about?

      a)go the book route (yeah, I admit it, I read the first 4 books) and have the Originals be a completely different species that has existed since the beginning of time

      But if they existed since the beginning of time, how ever would they show us a flashback episode of how they came to be? I wonder if we’ll ever have a villain just talk about their past instead of us seeing it. It would free up time for our present characters to actually do things in the episode. Whenever a flashback episode comes now nowadays, most of the characters don’t appar in the episode, and when they do, they are clearly doing less than the ToD. The best example is Klaus.

      Didn’t Elijah say in “Klaus” that Klaus and their father didn’t get along well?

      I don’t remember. I’ll have to rewatch the scene.

      I hate how one love has to trump another on this show.

      Me too.

      (especially about TSC since they’ve introduced that horrible, terrible Jake character, who I feel is like always on screen)

      Jaaaake! He sucks. I can’t wait ’till GoT comes back.

  7. What is it about?

    It’s about the changes that occur in a small town at the beginning of the 20th century.
    The episode title is intriguing. The episode could be good *fingers crossed* But since it will probably be somehow connected to the Originals/their connection to Mystic Falls or sth, it probably won’t…

    But if they existed since the beginning of time, how ever would they show us a flashback episode of how they came to be? I wonder if we’ll ever have a villain just talk about their past instead of us seeing it.

    There would have been no flashbacks in this case, which would’ve been great.
    It almost feels like the writers feel obligated to do some flashback episodes.

    • It almost feels like the writers feel obligated to do some flashback episodes.

      I think they view it was a signature of the show. The problem is when they use the same device for the same thing to accomplish the same feat with the thought that it always works and is always interesting. You know, we could of just done with Elijah’s spoken explanation.

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