Episode 49: The Reckoning

Spoiler chat: 02:01:38.656-02:08:17.375

Episode 49

Guest: Cana

Quotes of the podcast: “The power of Stefan’s love is so strong it can resist canon that the show set up.” -Me

“This can’t be happening. This can’t be on air, still.”-Me

In this episode, Stefan is completely removed from his story arc, Elena is harvested, I wonder how much of a character Tyler is, and Cana and I talk about how the show could make a Hybrid really stand out (disfiguration, disfiguration, disfiguration).

Casting Sides

Maybe they should perfect the Werepire first

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111 thoughts on “Episode 49: The Reckoning

  1. Tyler & Caroline:

    – They had a bunch of lip service lines.

    – You can get expelled for things like that. Property destruction.

    – I’m guessing we’re meant to assume that Tyler and Matt were never friends. Because there’s no real explanation for Tyler’s complete lack of interest in Matt, especially considering season one.

    – Tyler is no longer a character. I think him being a hybrid is book canon? I can’t remember. Not that it matters.

    – Being a werewolf means nothing to Tyler because werewolves don’t matter.

    – There has to be a difference between Klaus and Tyler. The only thing being a Hybrid did for him was make him invulnerable to ash dagger. I’m hoping they establish that Tyler is weaker than Klaus.

    – The Lockwoods are done. The Forbes are done. The Gilberts probably won’t go on. Who knows who the youngest Fell is?

    – They found Mason’s body and I think he got a different (off-screen burial), remember? Unless I’m mixing up Damon’s confession with them actually finding the body.

    – I wonder how Forwood shippers are going to fanwank this into Tyler empowering Caroline in some way.

    – Do the writers realize that Klaus is no longer special if Tyler exists or that erasing the death that made him a Hybrid is actually not possible.

    Stefan:

    – The previous episodes weren’t needed for Stefan’s storyline. This storyline isn’t needed for Stefan’s storyline. There was no point. I can’t even talk about it, it makes me so mad, Alta.

    – Wait? Rebecca said, “Consider me jealous!” What? Wow!

    – The last episode should have been the first time Stefan came back to Mystic Falls & the first time we saw him this season!! Yes. A thousand times over. A thousand times over.

    – I wish they’d let us see Klaus break Stefan’s neck.

    – All Klaus said was that he would only save Damon if Stefan came with him. Which isn’t quite as romantic as the greater good of Mystic Falls.

    – Not even just cold turkey, Alta. He’d just spent the afternoon getting his neck broken.

    – Do vampires have weak punches? Because Elena is like never dazed afterward.

    – It’s sad character-wise that the reason that Stefan was so resistant was about hurting people in front of Elena because it would be amazing if he was completely freaked out/scared by the prospect of being compelled.

    – Of course it would have been better if Klaus had basically just given the orders. That’s why the writers didn’t do it. I was thinking the same thing about Stefan being the type to give someone the option of killing someone they love (or anyone really) or he’d do it instead, sort of “kill this person or I’ll make you wish you did”.

    – The term Ripper wouldn’t make sense without ripping people apart and it’s ridiculous because that seems like a weird MO to be repeated by multiple vampires. I mean seriously. Let’s just call Stefan a sociopathic serial killer and be done with it.

    – Elena is surprised because she’s…not right in the head.

    – Stefan’s reaction to Elena telling him to focus was hilarious. I mean, he was an asshole, but to be honest it’s the reaction someone would have to being told that they were capable of something from someone who had neither done it (Elena’s never resisted compulsion. She doesn’t even know how many times she’s possibly been compelled!) and wouldn’t know how to do it (Stefan’s a vampire and he’s not supposed to be able to be compelled. Not like this.) Can’t believe I’m talking about Stefan being dick and coming down on his side somewhat.

    – I’m sick of people talking about the power of Stefan’s love and strength or whatever. Stelena is nauseating.

    – I get what Elena means when she says that Stefan owes her.

    – Stefan throwing himself against the lockers was hilarious. I actually didn’t laugh until I saw Stelena fans talking on Tumblr about how powerful the scene was.

    – I think his final scene would have been great as one of his first scenes of the season minus the compulsion/previous four episodes (bring that information in later, tease us with the fact that Stefan and Klaus knew each other in the past, bring up Rebekah through her trying to get the necklace). They could have left things up in the air. Before the season started, I thought they would do that, but I should probably give up thoughts when it comes to this show.

    Elena:

    – The writers don’t like Elena. They really do not like her.

    – Cana’s explanation makes sense. Klaus killing Elena and her actually dying would have prevented him from using her blood to create more doppelgangers. The original witch lied to him about the effects of the spell. I don’t know. I’m confused.

    – Shouldn’t the Original doppelganger look like Elena? Just from what the world doppelganger means. If this show were more prone towards comedy, someone would have mentioned that. I would take Klaus, saying something.

    – What did she mean by this time? I never know what people are talking about on this show!

    – Delena just needs to happen. I don’t need to see their guilt or their bantering or anything going on with them. I’m just sick of the bland ridiculous push and pull, that’s really just pulling.

    Damon:

    – I don’t get why Katherine would only now consider the vampire that Pearl knew? Why wasn’t she looking for him last year?

    – Anna hesitates so they can hurt Jeremy and then Anna can be concerned and her giving in will be about Jeremy and not the fact that there was no reason for her not to.

    – Not only are they going to undo what a which did, they aren’t going to think about what it means that someone entombed him.

    – This show would be more tolerable if we were just following a bunch of villains/bad guys/gray characters instead of following a bunch of villains/bad guys/gray characters and being told they are good guys.

    – I’m actually wondering why there wasn’t a failsafe on Michael’s tomb? Isn’t that another warning? The witch who entombed Michael wasn’t afraid of another vampire being dumb enough to wake him up. Which is a bad sign.

    Klaus:

    – He won’t kill Damon because the show is dumb. He could have at least snapped Damon’s neck though.

    – What I want to know is why Michael is so scary? Can Damon think about that for a moment? Can anyone?

    – “Leverage? I don’t care!” Hilarious.

    – Maybe the seniors weren’t into the whole prank night thing. The pranks were kind of lame.

    Bonnie & Matt:

    – How dare Matt forget about senior prank night? How dare he be lonely?

    – When Elena said that to Matt I wanted him to side eye the fuck out of her.

    – Prank night will stay with them forever. I can’t stop laughing. It should have been a bonfire.

    – There was history in the Matt/Bonnie scenes. Actual history. Stuff to remember and stuff being remembered.

    – Matt saying that he was glad that Bonnie knows and her hesitating around the Vicki topic because she remembers what Matt lost and ugh, there scenes were great.

    – Bonnie hesitated in order to fill in time. I don’t know. The show doesn’t think about these things.

    – There’s a disconnect when it comes to Matt making the decision to die. Like I get him being willing to do it because it makes sense for him, but it doesn’t make sense for the plot of the episode. I don’t get it. The show is erasing canon that they created two episodes ago.

    – I liked Matt telling Bonnie she didn’t need magic because of how it ended with him mentioning CPR. It was tied to their friendship and to him knowing her. So I liked that line for that.

    – Matt can’t have a normal life. Not really. But that scene was beautiful. It was so wonderfully honest.

    – “Hi Matty!” My emotions! My emotions! Unless we’re meant to believe that Matt’s death triggered something. Made it easier for Vicki to make herself visible to him. As it is, it would be better for him to not keep seeing her.

    – What? People are saying Matt and Bonnie have more chemistry? Okay. Whatever. They’re great as platonic besties. I know that there are people who shipped them before, because of the books, but yeah. I’m not into shipping them.

    – Stelena is gross and every synonym of gross. I can’t even deal with how much the show wants me to buy into them.

    Spoilers:

    BONNIE HAS A MOM!!! ABBY BENNETT!!! I’m so happy!

    I’m so into her being the one who entombed Michael and her coming back and interacting with Bonnie and just doing amazing things.

    It scared them off so much that they didn’t bring in her mom at all? Lazy.

    Lucy didn’t interact with any Salvatores did she? So there’s a possibility Abby won’t have to either.

    • – Tyler is no longer a character. I think him being a hybrid is book canon? I can’t remember. Not that it matters.

      Is it? Is Klaus a Hybrid in the books? What I know about Tyler from the books is that he’s kind of evil or is straight up evil (which goes with him contemplating shifting alliances. Even though that probably won’t make sense as the show is presenting it), and he got Caroline pregnant.

      Don’t forget the Salvatores. And yet the Bennetts are still standing. Ha!

      I don’t remember anyone saying they found Mason. When was this? The only thing I remember is Damon telling Jules if only she knew the irony of him being in the torture chair.

      – I wonder how Forwood shippers are going to fanwank this into Tyler empowering Caroline in some way.

      Lol.

      This storyline isn’t needed for Stefan’s storyline.

      Lmao!!!! I’m so sorry, bb. I know how much hope you had for this storyline, and I know for certain you could tell it better than these people. Ugh. They need to let Stefan go, like you said. These would be so much better if they didn’t have a set path. And the thing is this blood thing isn’t even from the books, right? They made that up and they’re messing it.

      – Wait? Rebecca said, “Consider me jealous!” What? Wow!

      Yup. Right after she stabbed Stefan.

      – Not even just cold turkey, Alta. He’d just spent the afternoon getting his neck broken.

      Lol!!!! Maybe that knocked a couple of brain cells loose.

      it’s ridiculous because that seems like a weird MO to be repeated by multiple vampires.

      Very true. But this show is so dedicated to this story that they haven’t bothered to say how many other Rippers there have been. Or heck, if there’s one destroying a village right now.

      I loved his reaction! Lol.

      – Stefan throwing himself against the lockers was hilarious. I actually didn’t laugh until I saw Stelena fans talking on Tumblr about how powerful the scene was.

      Oh my goodness.

      – Shouldn’t the Original doppelganger look like Elena?

      It should. As tired as I am of Nina playing different characters, the Original doppel should be played by her. That’s the whole point.

      I never know what people are talking about on this show!

      Lol!! That’s true for me lately, but it’s because of the music. Joseph Morgan already has an accent so the loud music doesn’t help. Ian slurs/drags out his words so the loud music doesn’t help; Nina eats her words/vowels so the loud music doesn’t help; Kat sometimes speaks really softly so….

      – I don’t get why Katherine would only now consider the vampire that Pearl knew? Why wasn’t she looking for him last year?

      Her excuse to Damon is that since Pearl and Anna were dead, she couldn’t find him. ??? At least the producers tried for an explanation? Let’s pretend Katherine didn’t have a witch in her servitude.

      The pranks were kind of lame.

      They were. My junior year the seniors chained the doors right before the lunch bell, so we couldn’t get downstairs. Total fire hazzard, but…

      – When Elena said that to Matt I wanted him to side eye the fuck out of her.

      I know right?!

      – What? People are saying Matt and Bonnie have more chemistry?

      Yup. That Matt/Bonnie’s chemistry trumps Bonnie/Jeremy’s; that they got more from them in a couple of scenes than they got from Bonnie/Jeremy in a whole season, etc.

      Lucy didn’t interact with any Salvatores did she?

      Nope, she didn’t. She did speak to one though. Stefan went, “Elena” because what else would he say, and Lucy let him know she was fine and that she’d taken the spell off.

      • s it? Is Klaus a Hybrid in the books? What I know about Tyler from the books is that he’s kind of evil or is straight up evil (which goes with him contemplating shifting alliances. Even though that probably won’t make sense as the show is presenting it), and he got Caroline pregnant.

        Looking back, I don’t think so. He was just evil and in league with Klaus(Klaus in the books is ridiculous but he is elaborate and actually has plans). That’s it. So they just pulled this stuff out of thin air.

        And yet the Bennetts are still standing. Ha!

        Because they’re looking out for themselves and getting everything done at the same time. Everyone else needs to take the backseat.

        I don’t remember anyone saying they found Mason. When was this? The only thing I remember is Damon telling Jules if only she knew the irony of him being in the torture chair.

        I think he told Alaric that Mason was stuffed into his truck or something. Which still means his body hasn’t been found? I just remember something about Mason and his truck.

        And the thing is this blood thing isn’t even from the books, right? They made that up and they’re messing it.

        Stefan having an addiction? Nope. I think it takes two books for him to actually drink human blood and he doesn’t nearly kill anyone because of it as far as I can remember. He was weaker because he drank animal blood but he was cool with that.

        The music is so loud so the writers can disguise how awful and awkward the dialogue is. How often has what we’ve assumed was said been better than what was actually said? Too often.

        They were. My junior year the seniors chained the doors right before the lunch bell, so we couldn’t get downstairs. Total fire hazzard, but…

        That’s pretty good. The seniors at my school glued the locks shut in 75% of the classrooms and when everyone arrived at school the next day the first two hours were spent in the cafeteria, the gym, and the auditorium. Which seemed like a bad idea, safety wise to me and my friends, but nothing bad happened.

        Yup. That Matt/Bonnie’s chemistry trumps Bonnie/Jeremy’s; that they got more from them in a couple of scenes than they got from Bonnie/Jeremy in a whole season, etc.

        Fandom is so weird sometimes. Why does it have to be a competition? Why is Beremy always the Bonnie ship getting all the flack? I get it and I don’t. I know I’ve spoken about how Matt/Caroline have more chemistry than Tyler/Caroline, but that’s 1) true and 2) based on a relatively equal amount of screen time and interaction.

        Stefan went, “Elena” because what else would he say

        lmao!

      • They were. My junior year the seniors chained the doors right before the lunch bell, so we couldn’t get downstairs. Total fire hazzard, but…

        that is so dangerous! O_O

    • I just sound like a book expert now:
      Tyler is no longer a character. I think him being a hybrid is book canon? I can’t remember. Not that it matters.

      There is no such thing as hybrids in the books … unless LJ Smith put it in the new trilogy, which I didn´t read.
      But Tyler helped Klaus to go against the group. He killed a friend of him “Vicki Bennett” to become a werewolf, because Klaus showed him how to do it. But I think the ritual is more complex in the books. Don´t know it anymore.
      I think something like that will happen on the show, they built an alliance and like Alta said Caroline will be the one who tries to bring him back. Perhaps the whole group will try.
      But I don´t know how they will make it acceptable for Tyler to go with Klaus because he killed Jules (his friend and teacher) and Jenna, somebody he should know for long and which was a family member of a friend.
      Who knows perhaps they pull the hybrid-family-connection-card.
      But I think either he will die or they will find a way to de-hybrid him … because I can´t see them using this suoernatural being for longer then one season.

      • I read the first set of books a long time ago and didn’t even know about the second set until the show came on, so I was assuming, if there was any “hybrid” action maybe it was from those books. But I haven’t been able to find any references to hybrids being the later books so the writers probably did make it up on their own.

        But I don´t know how they will make it acceptable for Tyler to go with Klaus because he killed Jules (his friend and teacher) and Jenna, somebody he should know for long and which was a family member of a friend.

        Tyler can barely remember Mason, so I doubt it’s going to be difficult for him to like take up with the guy who, when he couldn’t kill Tyler, killed his mentor instead.

        Any no one except for Alaric remembers Jenna.

        • I read the first set of books a long time ago and didn’t even know about the second set until the show came on, so I was assuming, if there was any “hybrid” action maybe it was from those books. But I haven’t been able to find any references to hybrids being the later books so the writers probably did make it up on their own.

          So you read the first four books or only the first three? Because I think she added the fourth book because she got many mails of her fans who weren´t really satisfied with the end.
          I didn´t want to read it because I thought it was a fitting end but decided against and enjoyed the last book. Probably because I didn´t liked Elena that much.

          I agree with you, I think the writers made that “Hybrid” up. I only know that Klaus was one of the first vampires a pureblood, perhaps? Don´t know what that was called in english, I only read the books in german.

          I didn´t read the second triology but I saw some tidbits and I think it was pretty absurd … a hybrid would have been better than all the mess she created there imo.

          Right Olu! I agree with you, as it always seemed death doesn´t mean anything in the show.

          • I read the first three. I tried to read the fourth one when the show first came on but couldn’t make it through. And Klaus was a pure-blood. I remember that much.

            Yeah. the descriptions of the second half in the series are WOW like one must have to take a lot of drugs in the morning and get hit on the head to think those ideas are good WOW. I know L.J. Smith is no longer writing the books though, so she may not be responsible for that mess.

    • I really like what your saying about being shown the Salvatore’s deaths. Have we ever seen them die on camera (other than their transformation scenes?). Break Damon and Stefan’s necks on camera every episode, I’ll be happy.

      Also I don’t get why they needed to keep Elena there when they had Tyler’s body.

      Elena must have a very high tolerance for pain or something. If SPN’s attack her she’s not so bad off. She gets scratches and takes naps.

  2. Fandom is fickle they all suffer from short term memory. I’ve seen a lot of stuff saying Matt is the only one who believes in Bonnie without her powers. He was there for her when Jeremy wasn’t, did these people not watch season 2. He’s(Matt) the only one who said she doesn’t need magic, he was right but he was wrong. I thought Jeremy could see dead people because he was brought back by magic not because he died.

    I haven’t seen Elena as a person in a longtime, I only see her as Elena and Damon,or Elena and Stefan. It’s sad.

    What happened to this Romeo and Juliet s/l for Tyler and Caroline does ayone remember that being said all summer. Not that I care just wondering.

    I don’t understand why they made Tyler a hybrid just why?

    SE made me very uncomfortable this episode. I just could not take they’re love conquers all it was just so bad.

    I don’t understand what this first chapter was about at all. Klaus trying to make hybrids and just nothing no one did anything. The last 2 episodes of this arc 3×6 and 3×7 are supposed to end the ghost arc which they haven’t really developed that well so far.

    All the episodes this season have been very disconnected. I don’t know what is going on.

    • I’ve seen a lot of stuff saying Matt is the only one who believes in Bonnie without her powers.

      My Fandom friend and I talked about this, and we both side-eyed all of this glorification of someone telling Bonnie she doesn’t need her magic. I mean I get the sentiment, but why is it such a great thing that someones telling Bonnie she doesn’t need what she was born with especially when Jeremy had already said something similar. It’s not like Bonnie’s been secretly wishing someone would tell her she doesn’t need her magic.

      Jeremy can only see dead people because of magic. I don’t know if they’ll even bother with an explanation for Matt.

      I guess the Romeo/Juliet stuff is still to come?

      The last 2 episodes of this arc 3×6 and 3×7 are supposed to end the ghost arc which they haven’t really developed that well so far.

      You’re so right. We don’t even know much about them. Like we know it’s a consequence, but how? Why this kind of consequence? And I haven’t seen Anna or Vicky affect Jeremy in any way, let alone affect the Bonnie/Jeremy relationship aside from Bonnie mildly showing she doesn’t like it. Ugh.

      What exactly has happened so far?

      • Like we know it’s a consequence, but how? Why this kind of consequence?Like we know it’s a consequence, but how? Why this kind of consequence? What exactly has happened so far?

        We don’t even know what they want. We sorta know what Vicki wants, but not much else. How exactly is it a consequence for Bonnie? If they developed it more, if the ghosts actually knew something, then maybe the consequence would be Bonnie being cut off from what was about to go down, but we’ve got nothing on what’s about to happen. Klaus has one hybrid and he left him behind. I don’t know this is weird.

        • Hopefully Vicky will talk about how she can come back next episode. As of now this story should be further along than it is. It has joined the rank of Stefan’s arc.

  3. I don’t know about fandom, but within the show maybe Matt’s line was supposed to have a double meaning. Not so much about whether Bonnie needed magic, but about her inclination to turn to magic. Does that make sense? Death is this natural thing and there was no saving Jeremy without it, but like Matt said, all she would have needed to save him was CPR (which was a strange bet for him to make with his life, but it was his bet to make). If I thought the show was interested in marrying their idea of Bonnie, as separated by her powers and by her humaness, I would say it was about her accepting the potential for death and that death was not something that could be undone just because she knew she was capable of undoing it.

    But I’m sure it’s just supposed to be, despite where fandom is taking it (which some people are acting like Matt called her a goddess and ruler of the universe or something), just about Matt trusting Bonnie and the fact that her magic isn’t exactly something he’s been in contact with despite knowing that she brought Jeremy back. He trusts that she’s capable without it.

    I don’t know. I’m hoping episode 10 sheds some light on where Bonnie is right now and possibly the exact nature of the consequences she may be suffering when it comes to using her magic.

    Also, is it just me or did the show take her back to season one in terms of her magic use? She no longer has the power of her ancestors but she was doing more complex magic in s2 without it. Also, why has no one brought up the possibility that Bonnie bringing Elena back to life came with consequences or are part of the cause of consequences?

    • If I thought the show was interested in marrying their idea of Bonnie, as separated by her powers and by her humaness, I would say it was about her accepting the potential for death and that death was not something that could be undone just because she knew she was capable of undoing it.

      I would love it if the show had the intention of taking Bonnie on this journey that, yes she was helpless to save her grams and she accepted that, but being relied upon to save so many lives has given her this mentality that she can do anything. If she can keep Elena alive and do all of those things that Stefan asked her, if she can face down Klaus, then why should she have to just sit back and lose Jeremy? Even though she didn’t have the power to do it, she had the resource to do it, and she did. And that’s kind of dangerous. She has accepted the responsibility of being in the middle of all of this, she views it as her calling, but I’d love it if she realized she hasn’t fully accepted the consequences that comes with it, such as the huge possibility of personal loss.

      Also, is it just me or did the show take her back to season one in terms of her magic use?

      You mean the amount of times she uses magic? This show is so lazy that they’re taking “the human side of Bonnie” to mean she uses as little magic as possible. When she really should be practicing her powers now more than ever, writing spells, trying out curses, etc, but that doesn’t seem to be her priority. The only person who cares about taking Klaus out is Katherine, and she shouldn’t even be here.

    • ALL OF THIS!

      Bonnie extended the life of two Gilbert’s and helped snuff out another to save one. But only bringing back Jeremy has dire consequences (that are of concern)?

      How about this … Elena came back wrong. Should be all about Bonnie. I feel like since is where Bonnie’s magic and John’s life that helped her stay alive there should be an effect of that. There should be a tether between Elena and Bonnie … Different than what we have now. Elena should be lost and looking for answers UGH IF ONLY THIS WERE A DIFFERENT SHOW!

  4. I realized something in the middle of the night while I was trying to fall back asleep (I need to be free of this show). So Klaus tells Bonnie to find a way to keep his hybrids alive, Matt tells Bonnie the way to do that is for Elena to be dead, so….Bonnie goes and tells Klaus that….and leaves? Because her last scene with Matt has to be after she told Klaus what she had found, so did she just tell Klaus he has to kill Elena and leave her with him?

    Why isn’t this show more coherent?

    • Klaus overheard their conversation … he was in the hall as Matt said what Vicki told him.

      But you´re right there was no scene of her worrying about Elena or Tyler. She last was seen with Matt and then take a ride with him to Jeremy´s home. Or that´s what I thought she said.
      But the same could be said about Elena – she also didn´t asked about her friends, only Stefan and Damon were her priority.

      And you´re also right in a post at the top … the music is so loud. Often I really can´t understand what they are saying and finally on a rewatch it is possible for me.

      I really thought, that Vicki said “Bye” to Matt in the end … which was pretty stupid because why would she sit next to him, if she would say “Bye” … sorry but I couldn´t understand it and then I saw a gif with “Hi” on tumblr and realized my dumb mistake.

      • Klaus overheard their conversation … he was in the hall as Matt said what Vicki told him.

        What was he doing in the hall? I don’t even remember this. Smh. Bonnie still had to have told him even if he already heard. It’s even weirder that she would get the info from Matt and then…go home.

        I really thought, that Vicki said “Bye” to Matt in the end … which was pretty stupid because why would she sit next to him, if she would say “Bye” … sorry but I couldn´t understand it and then I saw a gif with “Hi” on tumblr and realized my dumb mistake.

        Lol.

        • It’s even weirder that she would get the info from Matt and then…go home.

          *Everyone* just…went…home. Matt, who was all gungho about saving Tyler, didn’t check on Tyler. Bonnie and Caroline didn’t check on each other. No one asked about Elena. Klaus got what he wanted. Damon found a way to get him out of town. Then everyone basically coupled off – Delena, Forwood and Bonnie/Matt (Batt??). Klaus was so eager to torture Dana and Chad earlier but had no interest in Matt and Bonnie. The whole thing is a mess.

            • A scene of them going to the Grill or going to Elena’s or Caroline’s or anywhere and just decompressing would have ended the episode on a similar note as the beginning. Look at all these friends and how things have changed between them. But why do that when you can leave viewers with the underlying subtext that these people don’t care about each other? Or are, at the very least, incredibly lazy.

              • How did Damon know where Elena was? Did Bonnie or Caroline take her to the hospital? If so, why weren’t they there or outside being blocked by Klaus?

                • How did anyone know where Elena was? Klaus took her to the hospital to harvest her blood. I doubt he spread that information around & since these kids aren’t actually in the habit of going to the hospital why would Damon’s first assumption be that she was there?

                  I’m pretty sure Caroline and Bonnie didn’t know whose was there. Or whether she’d even survived the night. These writers are some master storytellers.

                    • You know she’s just going to mention their soul connection or whatnot. Or how the characters spoke off-screen, even though she’s also been very “the characters are never doing anything special off-screen” about characters who aren’t the main three.

                    • I tweeted her to ask how it is Matt can see ghosts when there was no magic involved. I hope a decent amount of people are tweeting her questions like this to counterbalance the ones kissing her butt.

  5. Just like Tyler/Caroline did they ask about Elena, especially given the fact Tyler drank Elena’s blood. How did they think Klaus got it. It’s even worse because then Tyler is all this is going to be the best year ever. I hate how they always make the Salvatores the only people who care about Elena. That’s why I only see her as SE or DE, that’s not a good thing.

    • I hate how they always make the Salvatores the only people who care about Elena.

      It´s awful. They pull her away from the group more and more as the seasons go on.
      I think in the end, she will believe that the only people in her world are both brothers and will go with them to live a happy vampire life.
      I would hope they would do something like that before the series ends, so we can focuse on the really interesting characters in the remaining episodes.

      • They pull her away from the group more and more as the seasons go on.
        I think in the end, she will believe that the only people in her world are both brothers and will go with them to live a happy vampire life.

        I hope this is next episode. Trololololloolololololooooo

  6. I have a feeling that being a hybrid is just going to make Tyler an asshole again. His number one victim will be Caroline, and it’s going to be so hot.

    • You’re crazy. Tyler shoving Caroline into car and walls was empowering. She’s the dominant one in their relationship. The only man who respects her and treats her well. She’s the guy and he’s the girl. They’re subverting gender norms.

      I know this is true because a shipper told me.

      • But you don’t UNDERSTAND. He only shoved her into cars and walls BEFORE they were dating. All that matters is that he has been treating her fine for like 2-3 months. Let’s not look back (Vicki). Tyler has grown so believably and without being woobified. What he did to his mother a couple of eps ago was totally justified. You are being unreasonable because you hate Forwood, Olu.

        #Save Bonnie from TVD
        #Save Caroline from TVD

        • Forwood shippers are weird to me because they are primarily interested in Caroline but they bend over backwards to justify everything that Tyler does or has done, to Caroline or to anyone else.

          #Save Bonnie from TVD
          #Save Caroline from TVD

          I just want find the alternate timeline where this show is quality and they’re running things and more people are alive because death has an effect and the writers are concerned with letting things develop organically. Basically I want the Bonnie & Caroline show with whatever from everyone else.

          • I just want find the alternate timeline where this show is quality and they’re running things and more people are alive because death has an effect and the writers are concerned with letting things develop organically. Basically I want the Bonnie & Caroline show with whatever from everyone else.

            And the writers of that show care about the characters so much that they let them succeed. Do you realize that the last competent thing these people (and by people I mean Bonnie) did was not turn off the device and the town was saved? After that it’s been failure after failure. They didn’t kill Klaus, and now thanks to them (saving Elena), Klaus can make more Hybrids. And now they’re going to release Mikael so that more people can die.

            • I want the show where Bonnie and Caroline are the Heroes and Elena/Katherine are the villains and everyone else are supporting characters.

              • Yes! You know how everyone is fascinated by Damon/Stefan? That is how I am now fascinated by Katherine/Elena. I was still into Stefan until this ep. I am so DONE with the Salvatores. I have gotten to the point where I seriously want them both killed off

          • Forwood shippers are weird to me because they are primarily interested in Caroline but they bend over backwards to justify everything that Tyler does or has done, to Caroline or to anyone else

            because Caroline being alone is worse than Caroline being shamed and abused. justsayin’

            #Save Bonnie from TVD
            #Save Caroline from TVD

  7. To the spoiler about Mary … I think the put two characters of the books together.
    I think Meredith was a latina in the books and description of her personality looks like her in the books.
    But I think they made her older because she is in the medical school and that would also fit in with my theory of the second character they used for this new one.
    Mary – Bonnie´s sister in the books is a nurse. She doesnt have a big role, but we see her interact with Bonnie and Bonnie talked about the strange things that happen in the hospital because Mary told her about that.
    We will see what the writers will do with this.

      • Yep she did. Not too many because the books are mostly in Elena´s POV but her parents are shown.
        She even had a pet, which had an imprtant scene. A very old dog called Yangtze but he was killed by Katherine.

    • Isn’t Bonnie Bennett already supposed to be a mix of Book!Bonnie and Meredith? That is what someone told me a while ago. Apparently, Meredith is anti-Damon in the books and Book!Bonnie is sort of his friend???

      • Bonnie is sort of mix of both. Meredith is like the one person who Damon won’t mess with directly and a lot of Bamon shippers (though I imagine they’re the unpopular variety of Bamon shippers) ship them because of the books. It’s been so long since I’ve read them so I can’t remember if they got together or not or whether it was just something that was hinted at.

        • I’ve read them so I can’t remember if they got together or not or whether it was just something that was hinted at

          They didn´t get together. Nobody got together in the end … only Stefan and Elena. They are still together after the second trilogy after what I have heard.

          But they had meaningful scenes in the last trilogy also some in the original books, kissed eachother (he kissed her before Elena) several times and LJ Smith hinted that there would be a triangle between B/D/E. But she told many things … and now she doesn´t write the books anymore.
          That´s what I know of.

          The books weren´t that great, but they were not to expensive and a quick read after I got over the writing style.

    • I just remembered something…maybe?? Was Meredith with Alaric in the books? If so, do you guys think that Mary is a love interest for Alaric who is also anti-vampire or anti-supernatural?

        • Lol. I am so cynical. My first thought on reading your info, Kathrin, was that she is going to be a device to show Alaric the error of his ways. At first Alaric will bond with her because of his newly found principles but she will be too hardcore. Maybe she will hurt Caroline or Tyler or Elena (because she figures out that the world is better off without Elena) or Bonnie or some other relatively innocent supe. Then Alaric will have to break away from her and rekindle his “bromance” with Damon.

          • You forgot the most important part. She’ll die in some ritualistic or completely circumstantial way because Michael wants to kill someone and maybe he’s also trying to bring about the rise of unicorns.

            • She’ll die in some ritualistic or completely circumstantial way

              Don’t forget sexual. Maybe Michael will caress her cheek or grab at her or climb on top of her as he kills her.

              • Can’t believe I forgot about that. No female death is complete without some form of textual or subtextual sexual violation.

                (Can’t even compare them to the male deaths because with the exception of like Logan Fell, some tomb vamps, weres, and Uncle John, all those guys came back. Have we even seen a female character come back from the dead using a ring or just by having her life saved?)

            • Lmao.
              Btw I read that Michael is spelled Mikael. Apparently the Originals don´t like the letter c
              Klaus instead of Claus, Rebekah instead of Rebecca, Mikael instead of Michael.

              What´s the name of the original mother again?

              • Are they supposed to be Russian/Slavic or something? Because British/vaguely British isn’t Russian. Not even sorta Russian.

                The Original mother is Esther…which makes no sense.

                This was the discussion in the writers room:

                “You know what we should do? Use Ks instead of Cs.”

                “Fuck yeah. Bitches love Ks.”

                • “You know what we should do? Use Ks instead of Cs.”

                  “Fuck yeah. Bitches love Ks.”

                  Lmao. I think something like this happens, when the writers work until 2 or 3 am

                  I thought the Originals came from Eastern Europe. Didn´t Elijah say something like that in “Klaus” or did I imagined it?
                  That´s why I thought Klaus looked so intrigued as Elijah said that Katherine came from Bulgaria.

                  • I thought the Originals came from Eastern Europe. Didn´t Elijah say something like that in “Klaus” or did I imagined it?

                    I think he may have, but they didn’t cast them that way.

              • I can get over Klaus because I’ve seen the name spelled like that more than I’ve seen it spelt with a C, but everything else is just try hard.

              • I’ve seen that too. I think it is because they are drawing these names from the Bible. These spellings are probably ones that appear there. Btw, Mikael is an archangel and his name means “Who is like God”. The army of God is upon us, people! Mary is on her way too. Maybe Jesus will be next except he will be called Issa. Who knows?

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_%28archangel%29

                  • Lol. Something funny just occurred to me. You know how Klaus and Elijah created the Sun and Moon curse?? The Originals’ names show up in Jewish, Christian and Muslim texts. We know that the Originals are thousands of years old. Think about it. Lulz.

                    I find ways to amuse myself with this show.

                    • I thought they were only a thousand years old? At least I’m holding onto that because I can’t even imagine how the writers would handle the Bible.

                    • The curse is a thousand years old. I don’t think the actual age of the Originals has ever been disclosed. Unless I missed something

                    • The curse is a thousand years old. I don’t think the actual age of the Originals has ever been disclosed. Unless I missed something

                      I think we’re supposed to be flashing back to the year 1000 to see how the Originals were turned and to see them as humans.

                    • I know. I am amusing myself with the thought of Klaus being a total weirdo in the 4th or 5th century or whenever Saint NiIcholas lived.

                      I need to step away from the interwebs. I am feeling way too giddy and not making sense

                    • Santa Claus and Nikolaus are two different people in our Christmas tradition.
                      Hope this works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas#Germany

                      Nikolaus comes between the 5th and 6th of December and this is the Saint Nicholaus Day … and on the 24th of december Santa Claus comes and brings the present … but I think the “Christkind” is more popular (at least at my home) and she is a angelic woman(?). It´s a little bit complicated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christkind

                      Hope that worked! And sorry for bringing this in … just wanted to clear things up.
                      In the end I confused you more lol

                    • Thanks Kathrin. You are not confusing me. I was mostly joking and having fun with the whole thing

                      I liked the following passage from that wiki page

                      But for some children, Nikolaus also elicited fear, as he was often accompanied by Knecht Ruprecht (Servant Ruprecht), who would threaten to beat the children for misbehavior as using this myth to ‘bring up cheek children’ for a better, good behavior. Any kind of punishment isn’t really following and just an antic legend. Knecht Ruprecht was equipped with eight deer legs. In Switzerland, where he is called Schmutzli, he threatens to put badly behaved children in a sack and bring them away to the dark forest. In other accounts he throws the sack into the river, drowning the naughty children!

                      Now I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a witch named Rupert or Ruprekht who used to work for Klaus. Bonus points if he has eight legs

                    • It´s okay I saw your discussion with Olu and I remembered me of a play, which we organized when I was a kid. In which Saint Nicholas, Santa Claus and the Christkind argued about, who was more beloved by the kids and that´s why I wanted to tell you.

                      Lmao @Ruprekht – You don´t know how frightened I was of this guy as I was a kid. Actually I was always a nice kid and didn´t do anything naughty over the year 😉 but when he came … I wanted to bury my head in the sand. He is really angst-inducing. So he would out-bad Klaus … as everyone does at the moment. lol

                • Maybe Jesus will be next except he will be called Issa.

                  Let’s hope this doesn’t happen. For a wide variety of reasons. Especially since they seem to be just pulling names from the Bible (with the exception of Michael, which is from the Bible, but at least might pan out in some relevant way on the show).

      • If so, do you guys think that Mary is a love interest for Alaric who is also anti-vampire or anti-supernatural?

        Guess the grieving period will be over by then.

  8. Btw to that vampwitch spoiler. I think they have dropped that idea because I saw a post about that actress who was casted for the role to be casted on another show.
    Either they recasted her or they dropped that idea which I would really appreciate, because like you said Alta they can´t even do the characterization of a werepire … what would they do with a vampwitch?
    We will see.

    • Thank God. The idea of a vampwitch was seriously screwing with my (admittedly limited) head!cannon of how magic is supposed to work. In my mind, you have to be a living being and not undead. Idk. Something about the idea of the undead drawing power from or communing with nature doesn’t doesn’t make sense to me.

      • Yeah, something about that idea doesn’t sit well with me either. I would think they would lose a lot of power privileges. Like I’m sure a witch would still be able to contact the dead and have visions, but a lot of stuff would/should be lost.

    • IKR! This show is so absurd and so very heavy handed. It so wouldn’t have surprised me if they told us that the Originals are way older than we thought. I mean, the show is so offensive in so many different ways. Why stop here?

      • What I find incredible is where does this show go after introducing the Originals? We’re about to find out, but honestly who can be the villain next year? And are they just going to let the Originals go in the end or are they going to kill them as well?

        Also, isn’t it mighty convenient that Klaus has a dagger for each of his siblings/family members? We’re meant to believe that they collected those daggers and then didn’t destroy as many of them as they could find? Everyone in that family deserves to get stabbed in the heart for their stupidity.

        • What I find incredible is where does this show go after introducing the Originals?

          I know, right? Why did we meet Original vampires in season 2? I need the show to stop going for bigger and start going for better. There’s nothing wrong with a baddy that’s easy to mildly difficult to beat. I don’t want someone stronger than Klaus (to late) and I don’t want someone stronger than Mikael. Just stoooop.

          • There’s nothing wrong with a baddy that’s easy to mildly difficult to beat.

            They don’t even have to be baddies. They could be like Pearl and Anna. Just other characters working towards goals of their own that are not that bad (in comparison). Just characters that clash with the NSDR for reasons that are not related to creating a private army or RULING THE WORLD! How about people outside the Council like the Bennetts or those deputies trying to get in? Alaric is the Gilberts’ representative so that is not the same thing. What if some of Liz’s deputies want to out the vampires to the public at large? Idk. There could be a lot of small-ish scale conflicts. Bigger is not always better.

            • Just other characters working towards goals of their own that are not that bad (in comparison). Just characters that clash with the NSDR for reasons that are not related to creating a private army or RULING THE WORLD!

              Like Jonas and Luka Martin? /bitter.

      • I know. I am amusing myself with the thought of Klaus being a total weirdo in the 4th or 5th century or whenever Saint NiIcholas lived.

        This would be a story development that I would be into in a delightfully cracky way. Klaus was actually Santa Claus.

        • It would be AWESOME. I think this show should go full on cracky on us. They, obviously, can’t do nuance or even coherence. Have you watched Lexx? IIRC, it was a Canadian-German-British co-production. It was a sci-fi show that took “cracky” to whole new level. I didn’t know wtf was going on in that show like 80% of the time but I just had to tune in each week. One of the characters was a robot head – yes, just the head. The female lead was a really obese woman who was convicted of disobeying her husband (I think) and was transformed into a hot sex slave. A giant snake thing crashed her transformation so actually, she was a hot woman/lethal snake thingy. She needed sex to live and was horny all the time. She was in love with an undead dude who had to be kept refrigerated most of the time. They couldn’t have sex for some reason. The only way to explain the show was that all the writers were high ALL THE TIME. TVD should just do this kind of thing.

  9. You know she’s just going to mention their soul connection or whatnot. Or how the characters spoke off-screen, even though she’s also been very “the characters are never doing anything special off-screen” about characters who aren’t the main three.

    I know and it will be rage inducing that is why I never tweeted her before. I am totes high on coffee rn though so meh.

  10. Before I realized that the should can barely handle vampires, let alone witches, werewolves, and werepires, I thought the idea of a vampwitch/vamp/warlock would be interesting because there must be some form of power to draw from since vampires exist and they exist with their increased strength and compulsion and healing capabilities.

    What I thought would be interesting would be the ways a witch would be forced to use her powers, in terms of the type of spells she could create and actually implement. I also thought that it would be interesting to view this transformation as a perversion of a witch’s powers, so to speak. So a witch (or a warlock) having a curiosity or an interest in keeping enhancing their powers or even just a curiosity about death (or whatever reason) would seek to become a vampire. The way I thought of it was that a witch (or a warlock) would never accidentally become a vampire. It would always be a choice that she or he made either not knowing the consequences or disregarding the consequences.

    I thought one interesting consequence would be a loss of power over life and death. So healing spells would be gone. Any spells involving the soothing of pain or even protection would be loss to the witch or warlock. Communication with the dead would be possible, but it would be more touch go. What use would a ghost see in witch who could not help them or heal them or protect them or end their stay on earth. So a vampwitch’s power would be primarily a destructive force, not only to the world around them, but to their being (in whatever way that can be gone into).

    So a witch or a warlock, seeking to turn themselves into a vampire, would actually be punished, by the nature they’re meant to maintain a balance within, for seeking to manipulate their very nature in order to achieve more power, in a way that say a witch or a warlock who simply used their magic for bad things wouldn’t be. I imagined that it would make the witch or warlock a formidable bad guy, but defeatable in the end because there are magics that they can’t even perform anymore, let alone create (since spells can be created), and something uplifting about powers that work to maintaining life, as it is (with birth and death factoring in) would make one more powerful, in the end, than simple having the destructive power of death. Also, I imagined that it would make the witch or the warlock somewhat unhinged since the choices they made led them to be disconnected from an essential part of their power. (Which is why the ghosts of witches being able to perform magic or influence the world can make sense to me, as long as their death was natural because they’ve never been separated from what makes them witches…though I go back and forth on that).

    I don’t think the show is actually capable of exploring this type of story, so I’m glad they scrapped it.

    Did any of that make sense?

    • Yes.

      I also thought that it would be interesting to view this transformation as a perversion of a witch’s powers, so to speak.

      Especially this

      So a witch or a warlock, seeking to turn themselves into a vampire, would actually be punished, by the nature they’re meant to maintain a balance within, for seeking to manipulate their very nature in order to achieve more power, in a way that say a witch or a warlock who simply used their magic for bad things wouldn’t be.

      And this

      Also, I imagined that it would make the witch or the warlock somewhat unhinged since the choices they made led them to be disconnected from an essential part of their power.

      Now I kinda (with fear in my heart, ok) wish that Bonnie’s mom turns out to be a vampwitch.

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