How about that Damon/Alaric bromance?

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266 thoughts on “How about that Damon/Alaric bromance?

    • It was pretty cool. I can’t believe the show actually had him attack her back. And then they summed it with a quip of him saying he loves a good girl fight. Caroline should have killed him.

      • You know that’s not going to happen, but I totally agree. At least it looks like she won’t be cowering in front of him any time soon. Now let Caroline, Bonnie, Tyler, Jeremy & Matt sort out a real Council.

        • Now let Caroline, Bonnie, Tyler, Jeremy & Matt sort out a real Council.

          That´s something I would love.The Council. The Next Generation.

  1. Last week’s episode gave me feelings of goodwill. I was happy about watching this episode and nearly everything about it was the worst. Or else I’m just really pissed about the preview for next week.

    I wish Caroline had killed Damon. Or stabbed him to a table leg. Something.

    • I actually liked it. For me last week’s episode was only the most tolerable one yet as far as Stefan/Klaus were concerned.

      Couldn’t she have just missed like Stefan did in the first season?

      • I’m going to watch it again tomorrow, but most of my anger is directed at the preview for next week and Stefan’s celibacy and how they really could have spent the first three episodes going back and forth between Klaus and Stefan in the present and flashbacks and skipped out on the hybrids aren’t working plot. We could have entered on that for how important all those failed hybrids were. That way all of Rebecca’s “I know when you lie” stuff would have made sense (since we never saw him lie to her in the past) and then this episode wouldn’t have been so irritating. & I’m annoyed with the fact that Stefan is completely in control, enough to protect Elena (who is the most important person he’s ever loved, apparently), but we’re supposed to believe he’s out of control.

        If I ignore all the Stefan stuff then the episode doesn’t bother me half as much. It felt a bit like filler to me.

        Exactly! She could have just missed. It’s that easy. At least she would have tried.

        • I completely agree. How could they have messed those flashbacks up? They did it in season 1 for Katherine! How many flashbacks did we see to establish her relationship with the Salvatores before she actually showed up? But they apparently don’t have the patience to do this with Klaus/Rebecca/Stefan.

    • I assume you watched the American preview. I am in Canada and my DVR recorded that preview. I thought it was pretty good. vampire-diaries.net posted a bad quality version of the Canadian preview.

      • That gives me more info than the American trailer. So Damon’s going to make out with Katherine, turning this into an annoying soap opera.

        I hope Caroline isn’t going to start out jealous of Rebecca. Ugh.

      • This preview is much better than the American one. Not half as slasher flick terrible. Gives a bit more information as well. I’m still hoping, if Stefan’s going to be running errands later, that the set up of this episode isn’t that Klaus compels him to attack Elena. That would suck.

        • I don’t understand why Klaus wants Stefan to prove that he wasn’t lying. Stefan not only looked guilty, but he started going, “But, but, but.” But I realize Elena wasn’t in peril once last night so they need to make up for that next episode.

          • Klaus wants Stefan to prove he wasn’t lying…even though he was clearly lying. Does he want him to prove he wasn’t lying about being on his side or Elena being alive? Or does he want him to prove that he is finally on his side and thereby prevent more lies?

            I don’t understand what’s going on. Why couldn’t they have had a plan for at least the first half of the season? Why?

        • There is also an extended promo … but it looks like the short american promo only some seconds longer.

          It looks like Damon isn´t gone for most of the episode and comes back to save Elena, but gets his ass kicked by Klaus in the process.
          What is he even? Every episode he gets in a fight with a regular or guest star and wouldn´t survive it if nobody would help him or the show writers would love him so much.
          I already see the fangirls trending #poorDamon.

    • Caroline won’t. She fought Damon, yeah, but then she basically rationalized Damon/Elena.

      I heard that Alaric is getting hate. Some on Twitter are saying he should’ve known Damon’s limits and they’re bashing him because of the possibility that he might become anti-supernatural.

      • Caroline won’t. She fought Damon, yeah, but then she basically rationalized Damon/Elena.

        What was this?
        “It means you´re human” – Elena doesn´t even show any human emotions since the start of season three in regards of the humans Stefan killed.
        Urgh. I knew this part of the episode would be eyeroll-worthy and I was glad that Bonnie didn´t participate in that foolery, but they use the former victim of this monster with the even more horrible haircut to make her realize her feelings. I just can´t.

        And what was this first Delena scene … I don´t know, but I thought that this where two completely different characters in that kitchen. Perhaps I did miss their new dynamic, but that didn´t feel right, Especially after I saw the last three episodes.

        • And what was this first Delena scene … I don´t know, but I thought that this where two completely different characters in that kitchen. Perhaps I did miss their new dynamic, but that didn´t feel right, Especially after I saw the last three episodes.

          Yes! When she smiled all wide and stuff, it felt kind of creepy. It was weird to realize that even though the’ve been “friends” for 3 years, that was actually the first time Elena laughed with Damon.

          • Yes! When she smiled all wide and stuff, it felt kind of creepy. It was weird to realize that even though the’ve been “friends” for 3 years, that was actually the first time Elena laughed with Damon.

            Now I remember this interview with Ian in which he said that Damon can Elena make laugh and feel happy in situations Stefan can´t. Yeh during chilli cooking. Good work Mr. Salvatore.

            Right it looked so creepy.
            I can´t with her anymore, seriously. I know she is the lead and most of the time I should see her as a naive teenager. But she is laughing with the guy who manipulated, manhandled and insulted her over the last three episodes. How much time past over the three episodes. Hybrid was one day after Elena´s birthday but what about The End of The Affair?

            And then the anticlimatic mood swing after Alaric asked why he was there and Nina´s delivery of “I´m not in denial” … that felt very contrived to me.

            I hope Elena will stay single for a long time after this ripper-Storyline.
            Perhaps until the end of the series? Yeah a girl can hope. 😉

            • Now I remember this interview with Ian in which he said that Damon can Elena make laugh and feel happy in situations Stefan can´t.

              Did he mean situations such as Stefan not being around to make her laugh? Because that’s all I can think of.

              The same guy who’s been calling her an idiot all summer, yeah.

              Lol, don’t hope too hard.

              • Did he mean situations such as Stefan not being around to make her laugh? Because that’s all I can think of.

                No I think he meant also other situations in which Stefan is involved but only Damon can make her laugh.
                That´s what I got from this interview.
                But it was never more obvious that Ian doesn´t know anything about his character and I think he often mistakes his real life rl with Nina and Damon´s rl with Elena on screen.

                The same guy who’s been calling her an idiot all summer, yeah.

                Pretty much. That´s the best guys to laugh with, seriously. Urgh.

                Lol, don’t hope too hard.

                Lol. Thanks for the advice.

  2. Hi!
    So I was listening to your podcast (saw a link over at vampirediaries.net) over the summer and I want to say you do an awesome work with that. Didn´t want to comment until now because I´m not so confident with my english.

    But this episode in general this show … urgh.
    I don´t know anymore.

    Did watch it live, but my stream broke many times
    Short recap (probably more later)

    – Gloria is a bamf but I don´t understand why always the witches have to die – they are for sure the strongest supernatural beings and everytime somebody strikes around the corner and kills them. Unbelievable.

    – Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah – boring didn´t interest me one bit

    – Bonnie/Caroline/Elena – I´m so disappointed, I thought we would see some real interaction, But we got Caroline most of the time talking to Elena about Damon and this supposed attraction. I can´t. Especially after what happened with her in season 1 and 2.

    – Bonnie back to work. Not seconds after her return she has to work for her “friend” who didn´t give a shit about that she can´t get access to the power of the 100 witches after she saved Jeremy (who was killed partly because of Damon).
    And I thought she would be more involved after the long dread of 3 episodes not being on screen.

    – Alaric/Damon – I questioned this friendship since season 1 and I love that Alaric finally has a purpose but that was John´s storyline … and now they give it to Alaric.
    I was a very big fan of him and I don´t understand until now why they had to kill him of.
    But I hope they continue with this part for him and I hope he can can rise his vampire killing record to two this season.

    – Damon/Elena – they are shoving it down my throat. I didn´t like it in season 1 … in season 2 and now it´s even worse.

    – Jeremy – don´t really have an opinion on that, but I don´t know why the writers have to damage one of the healthiest rl on the show (and I don´t even ship it)

    – Katherine – I got tired of her since the second half of season 2. Didn´t need her in the episode or on the show at the moment. And she killed Gloria.

    To your questions:
    Gloria for sure … but Alaric comes not to far after that

    All three of them … I couldn´t stand one of them.

    Sorry if my grammatics and so sucks, but I´m so disappointed at the moment (silly me for being excited for Bonnie´s return)

    • Hi! Thank you! And your English is fine.

      Bonnie back to work.

      I didn’t mind this. I thought this was different. Last season, she was rarely (probably never) there when the crap hit the fan. It would happen, a Salvatore would tell her and immediately ask for help, and she would do it. And later in the season, they stopped bothering to show the Salvatore even ask for help. This time she saw the necklace go crazy, and she decided to do it. Nobody had to ask her as a favor for anybody.

      But I completely agree about Elena not being there for Bonnie. Of course it happened offscreen. Even when Bonnie wanted to talk about Jeremy, Elena couldn’t be there. It was Katherine. Lol.

      Yeah, Alaric’s story was John’s story. But I’m glad he’s doing something and is actually breaking away from Damon. Will Liz Forbes take his place? Ugh.

      I’m so happy Jeremy told Bonnie the truth. I was seriously afraid he was going to lie to her; that he was going to listen to Anna and tell her a lie about why he’s been acting weird.

      I don’t know if you ever saw anyone say this about Bonnie last season: that she was just a plot device who magically showed up to bail everyone out. That’s Katherine right now. She’s showing up without rhyme or reason. But of course no one will call her a plot device.

      Your grammar is fine. I understand everything.

      • Hi! Thank you! And your English is fine.

        You´re welcome! And thanks. I started to get actively involved in this fandom not long ago. And because nobody in my group watches the show I don´t have anybody to discuss, that´s why I thought I could join

        I didn’t mind this. I thought this was different. Last season, she was rarely (probably never) there when the crap hit the fan. It would happen, a Salvatore would tell her and immediately ask for help, and she would do it. And later in the season, they stopped bothering to show the Salvatore even ask for help. This time she saw the necklace go crazy, and she decided to do it. Nobody had to ask her as a favor for anybody.

        I agree. Do you think the reaction of the necklace at the end of this scene was also because of Bonnie touching it?
        For me it looked like it could sense Bonnie´s power … but it could also be the reaction to Gloria´s spell.

        But I completely agree about Elena not being there for Bonnie. Of course it happened offscreen. Even when Bonnie wanted to talk about Jeremy, Elena couldn’t be there. It was Katherine. Lol.

        Right. That happened also last year during the premiere.
        But I seriously think this doppelgänger-switching-foolery gets old. My stream froze at that moment and I had to rewatch it but if this was the encounter Bonnie would have then this was a pretty lame solution. I thought she would see Klaus or that Hunter-guy.

        Yeah, Alaric’s story was John’s story. But I’m glad he’s doing something and is actually breaking away from Damon. Will Liz Forbes take his place? Ugh.

        Alaric grow on me this episode but I don´t like that Carol and Liz seriously forgot all of the humans in MF because of their children. Especially didn´t like that working alliance with Damon – don´t they know what he did to their children/family members?
        Also didn´t know that the council was that big … did it have so much members in season 1?
        I´m curious about that new guy (Fell) but did we see already the last of Bill?
        What purpose was his arrival in MF other then torture Caroline, provide bad comparison betwenn homosexuality and vampirism and be a snack for Damon?

        I’m so happy Jeremy told Bonnie the truth. I was seriously afraid he was going to lie to her; that he was going to listen to Anna and tell her a lie about why he’s been acting weird.

        That also calmed me down, but I didn´t like that Lockwood house scene with Anna. Hopefully we see Vicki next week, but I doubt it because it will probably only involve the senior gang.
        Is Jeremy even in the next episode?

        I don’t know if you ever saw anyone say this about Bonnie last season: that she was just a plot device who magically showed up to bail everyone out. That’s Katherine right now. She’s showing up without rhyme or reason. But of course no one will call her a plot device.

        Yeh I saw that and I totally agree.
        Everyone that interacts with her(and knows that it is Katherine) is annoyed with her and so am I.
        I saw some speculations about a death in next week episode. Perhaps it´s Katherine, but I doubt it the writers love her too much.

        Your grammar is fine. I understand everything.

        Thanks. Good to know. 🙂

        • I agree. Do you think the reaction of the necklace at the end of this scene was also because of Bonnie touching it?
          For me it looked like it could sense Bonnie´s power … but it could also be the reaction to Gloria´s spell.

          I’m hoping it was a result of Bonnie touching it while Gloria was doing a spell to find it. I won’t believe that it was simply reacting to Bonnie’s power. There’s no way Bonnie hasn’t touched that thing before.

          if this was the encounter Bonnie would have then this was a pretty lame solution.

          I completely forgot that Bonnie was supposed to have an encounter that affected everyone until someone mentioned it at the end of the episode. Probably because I expected the encounter to happen in the middle of the episode, not towards the end.

          Alaric grow on me this episode but I don´t like that Carol and Liz seriously forgot all of the humans in MF because of their children. Especially didn´t like that working alliance with Damon – don´t they know what he did to their children/family members?

          Yeah, it’s kind of ugh. The Council was already incompetent while Mayor Lockwood was running it, then the women were the main members and did absolutely nothing, and now here comes another man who will be focused and know how to get things done.

          I’m guessing all of the other members are Fells. They have to be.

          Bill’s purpose was providing gratuitus violence. I don’t know how he moved Caroline’s story forward in any way.

          but I didn´t like that Lockwood house scene with Anna

          That scene really hurt me. I don’t think Jeremy’s in the next episode.

          • I’m hoping it was a result of Bonnie touching it while Gloria was doing a spell to find it. I won’t believe that it was simply reacting to Bonnie’s power. There’s no way Bonnie hasn’t touched that thing before.

            That´s also my theory. And I have one wish, please don´t let that necklace be the new moonstone.

            I completely forgot that Bonnie was supposed to have an encounter that affected everyone until someone mentioned it at the end of the episode. Probably because I expected the encounter to happen in the middle of the episode, not towards the end.

            I almost forgot it too, but then I saw Bonnie at the Mystic Grill and thought about that encounter.
            My stream froze at the moment but then I saw Kat at the Boarding House with the necklace and thought damn that was the important encounter. #fail

            and now here comes another man who will be focused and know how to get things done.

            The question is: how long will this work until the writers will return to that former route.

            I’m guessing all of the other members are Fells. They have to be.

            Lol. There aren´t many “founder” familys, right? But there were so many in that room … and nobody does anything.

            I agree on Caroline and that Forwood scene was pretty much unnecessary.
            Tyler looks like his purpose this season is only to provide a romantic partner.
            But I´m curious if they go the TVD-books route. There he was more involved with Klaus … only in the show he has Stefan for that.

    • Welcome Kathrin! *waves*

      Your language skills are better than mine. Don’t worry about it. 😉

      – Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah – boring didn´t interest me one bit
      They were so boring. OMG!

      • Welcome Kathrin! *waves*

        Your language skills are better than mine. Don’t worry about it. 😉

        Hi Cana (know your name from your podcast participation) ! Thanks for the welcome *waves back*

        Thanks, didn´t use my english skills for the last years that´s why I´m a little bit nervous.

        @S/K/R: I laughed so hard in the rewatch as Klaus downs must of the champagne alone.
        Don´t know how him and Rebekah survived together the last 500 or so years. 😀
        Don´t know what to think about her … but she seriously destroys some of the Klefan vibe for me.

        • To clarify this: Don´t know how him and Rebekah survived together the last 500 or so years and didn´t kill eachother way before.

          • 🙂 *waves* 😀

            I got it. I don’t know how either. I mean why didn’t she unleash her other family members and have them turn on Klaus. Just from those few scenes … I don’t how she can fall back into chummy banter when he stabbed her. *blinks*

            • *waves again* 😀

              I don’t how she can fall back into chummy banter when he stabbed her. *blinks*

              I don´t know either. Perhaps during her 90 years sleep she could reconsider his actions and accept it. She even said that he does everything for family. Or did I got it wrong? If so his murder is very acceptable. He wanted to protect her from the difficult life with that Ripper-dude, but now he has everything under control and they can live a happy life together 😉

              I don´t get why, Stefan and Rebekah don´t consider waking all of the Orignals up?
              With their help, Stefan could rip Klaus apart … and the family members could stop him if he wants to put his body parts together in regret. After that they could throw Klaus into the sea and everyone would be happy. Except for that hunter-guy because he wouldn´t get his pray after 500(+/-) years of search.

              • Or did I got it wrong?

                No you got it right. Only I’ve seen nothing to tell me Klaus cares about his family.

                Except for that hunter-guy because he wouldn´t get his pray after 500(+/-) years of search.

                Lol! For Stefan to wake the Originals up, especially Elijah, would require that he come up with some kind of plan that involves considering the consequences, but we know Stefan only likes dumb plans that don’t go anywhere.

    • Hi Kathrin!

      – Gloria is a bamf but I don´t understand why always the witches have to die – they are for sure the strongest supernatural beings and everytime somebody strikes around the corner and kills them. Unbelievable.

      What annoys me the most about this is that it simply does not make sense. Not even a little bit. How can they be so sought after, so powerful and not concerned with self-preservation?

      I definitely agree about Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah. It’s like the writers had to have them in the episode for more than just the spell even though they weren’t even needed for that.

      I agree with Alta when she says that Katherine’s presence is definitely a plot device. She’s apparently no longer into self-preservation.

      Your English is fine.

      • – Hi Kathrin!

        Hi Olu! Nice to meet you.

        – What annoys me the most about this is that it simply does not make sense. Not even a little bit. How can they be so sought after, so powerful and not concerned with self-preservation?

        I don´t understand it either … but the moment I saw her torturing Stefan I thought about Kat saving his undead life and I was sure that she would be dead, because I know the record of the show

        – I definitely agree about Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah. It’s like the writers had to have them in the episode for more than just the spell even though they weren’t even needed for that.

        I don´t even know about that. Stefan was pretty dumb this episode, did he really thought his bad pokerface would save him from being discovered.
        I know that the show does everything to make Klaus look dumb, but doesn´t anybody fear him?
        Last season they pretty much established that he is the biggest badass vampire around and now he looks so pathetic. As Klaus comes into that Rebekah/Stefan scene and Reb reveals that Stefan is not on their side Joseph Morgans face looks like that of an child which got his lollipop stolen. Or so I think … maybe I have to rewatch it.

        Katherine looks like the only person who is really afraid of Klaus. The others don´t care.

        A quick question: How can I write your comments, which I want to quote in italic?

        • From the preview it looks like everyone is going to remember to fear Klaus next week. Which would probably be more interesting if he was torturing people in his own way and not in Stefan’s.

          To do italics just put your text between these things (without the spaces):

          • It would also be more interesting if him hurting Elena wasn’t what sparked their fear. Just like last year. I can’t. Do you realize that when we finally saw Stefan being afraid of Klaus after spending a summer with him, it was because of the possibility that he might be going after Elena?

            • Elena’s body is the most important body on the show and must be protected at all cost. Everyone can die as long as Elena can live. Stefan will actually create the bodies. I’m not sure who looks worse because this is the first time that Stefan has shown fear: Stefan or Klaus. On the one hand, Stefan has myopic priorities and is crazy and a murderer, so it makes sense. On the other hand, isn’t Klaus a villain?

          • Which would probably be more interesting if he was torturing people in his own way and not in Stefan’s.

            Right, he pretty much fails at being the big bad this season. The writers don´t even try.

            Thanks for the info I found the solution for my problem.

          • Seriously?!?

            (without the brackets)

            Let me take the time to mention something else about the episode:

            I agree with your thoughts about Carol and Liz forgetting what the council was for and how, as nice as it is for Alaric to finally be doing something, it would have been better if s2 hadn’t been about how Liz and Carol did nothing.

        • As Klaus comes into that Rebekah/Stefan scene and Reb reveals that Stefan is not on their side

          Another thing that made Klaus look bad. Rebecca’s only been here for a couple of days and she figured out that Stefan was lying. Klaus couldn’t even do that when Stefan was standing in front of him with his bad poker face while he talked about succeeding in killing the doppelganger.

          Google how to italicize in html. My examples won’t come up in the comment.

          • Another thing that made Klaus look bad. Rebecca’s only been here for a couple of days and she figured out that Stefan was lying. Klaus couldn’t even do that when Stefan was standing in front of him with his bad poker face while he talked about succeeding in killing the doppelganger.

            The writers hate their characters. I can’t imagine another reason for Klaus being so stupid. And they’re refusing to play up what would actually be a very believable petulant rich kid/boy king scenario with him, so he’s that character without the writing to back it up. It just sorta happens.

            He doesn’t even doubt Stefan, which is a bigger problem than Stefan being able to lie to him badly. Rebecca has to tell him what’s up in order to move the plot along because there’s really no reason for her to know better than Klaus, based on the past. I just mean that, our knowledge that Stefan is lying and lying badly (& I’m wondering Paul Wesley is just phoning it in or what) makes it easy to fall in with Rebecca and laugh at Klaus, but we shouldn’t know. There should be more going on there than just Stefan being a bad liar (because Stefan is actually an incredibly good liar).

            This should have taken more than one episode.

            Klaus is probably failing as a villain because once they decided that he was going to be a regular they decided to make him sympathetic instead of going there with him as a villain and then breaking that down, if that was what they wanted to do.

            • They really do hate them. They’re stifling Klaus.

              That’s true. The fact that there has never been a doubt in Klaus’ mind, not even after last episode when Damon showed up in the bar. Not even earlier when he actually let Stefan go and talk to Damon. They have got to be kidding with this.

              Lol. Klaus should never have become a regular. He should’ve been recurring. Maybe than they’d treat him better. Maybe? Klaus should be more behind the scenes, ugh.

              • Having Stefan as the villain this season, with Klaus in the background orchestrating things, would have been a better way to go about this season. Klaus wouldn’t have been around so much, but his plans would have to make sense, and there would be some sense of his capability, because Stefan would be following his orders without all the back and forth about his internal conflict. They could have skipped Stefan’s internal conflict.

                • I agree with all what you said Alta and Olu.

                  Klaus looks pretty much stupid in comparison to all the other characters, last year they tried to sell us that he was thousands steps ahead and now he can´t even figure out that Stefan is lying (but I agree Stefan can be a very good liar, but this pokerface seriously needs to be improved). and needs help from Rebekah.

                  Or the writers try to show us that he pretty much isn´t a very dangerous guy and the stupidest of them all to show us at the end of episode 8 or so that he figured all of the mysteries out a long time ago and only played with the group.
                  But with this writers? No I don´t think so.

                  And what is this new hunter/possible father of the origals. He must fail at his job if he doesn´t get this two after a search of 500 years or so. And did I hear that right, is his name “Michael”? Oh I´m so afraid … I can´t even take it.

                    • Yes I think so that´s what I got from Rebekah. She says to Klaus “He asked about Michael” or something like that and I thought how could that be her father like so many speculated. First I know many people do that but I wouldn´t call my parents by their name and second she said that very unpersonal … as if it didn´t affect her.

        • put the text between these two things Eliminate the spaces. I put spaces between the symbols so they will be visible. So it is more like <i and </ than < i or < /

  3. I hope that Alaric’s actions in this episode spell good things for what the council can and will do in the future and that Bonnie, Caroline, Matt, Jeremy, and Tyler are a part of it. To varying degrees.

    Alaric’s parts of the episode please me quite a bit. The way he confronted Damon was great, because it was one of the first times that Damon’s feelings weren’t framed as being Elena’s burden to bear.

    • I agree. After he woke up, I thought he was going to bow down to Damon again. The fact that he was even in the mansion made me think that which…way to look out for him, Elena. But then it just got better with the Council! He’s doing what I wanted Jeremy to do which was go to the council and try to get in.

  4. Re: Damon’s behavior in this episode, inspired by nothing, not even his usual recklessness; do you think it was an attempt to remind us, as if we needed reminding, that Damon’s dangerous and wrong for Elena, while also stating that the reason that Stefan is doing what he’s doing is to protect Elena?

    Basically the same old good brother/bad brother bullshit? Even though Stefan is Stefan.

    Also, since Katherine was apparently unaware of Stefan’s ripper period/him knowing Klaus (do the writers remember that she was in the final flashback from last week?) why is she assuming that this is just a phase for him or something that he is pretending to be or playing at?

    • I think that had nothing to do with Stefan. It was the writers’ attempt at being logical by having the characters react realistically to Damon for one episode. Only instead of bringing up things he’d done in the past, things that have literally built up, things like letting Jeremy get shot, etc, they had him act unbelievably wild in this episode like he’s a damn savage or something. It’s like I said in your review, why would they build up to this when they can make it happen in one episode?

      You just reminded me that Katherine was actually serious in that scene. At the time of watching it I was like, “So she’s playing him. Right? She was in the flashback last episode.” I guess they want me to believe she missed Klaus and Rebecca by that much.

      • You’re right. The writers don’t believe in build-up. Can’t believe they get paid for this.

        She probably has the same condition Klaus has, only it exists in her eyes as well as her ears. Maybe she showed up at the very end of the party and was bummed out because the club was shot up.

  5. I loved Alaric in this episode he finally stepped up and is acting the way he should have been this whole series as a supposed vampire hunter. Protect the people Alaric. He Damon should have never been friends in the first place I blame it on the alcohol.

    Klaus/ Rebecca and Damon not needed in this episode.

    Damon just did his kill people for no reason routine, only this time people reacted, Caroline backhanded him it was great, Alaric is done with his crap. Finally people finally.

    Jeremy/Anna stuff bitter party of one. Why did it feel like they were the relationship and Bonnie was the ghost. At least he told her but instead of Bonnie’s reaction we get Anna’s. So now not only do I get the short end of the stick as a Bonnie fan but now as a Bonnie/Jeremy shipper.

    Why was Tyler even in this episode it was so pointless.

    Gloria I knew you were going to die you were to awesome. I love that she tortured Stefan before died at least she got to do that. The other witches on this show just kind of die for no reason or for they’re vampire masters.

    • Gloria I knew you were going to die you were to awesome. I love that she tortured Stefan before died at least she got to do that. The other witches on this show just kind of die for no reason or for they’re vampire masters.

      She also had a plan of her own to get something *she* wanted. She wasn’t working for the vampires. She was trying to scam them. That is progress for this show.

        • Her death was like a combination of the aborted Matt/Liz double-cross storyline and the Hybrid experimentation ep. This show can’t seem to have people working for different goals and scheming behind each other for long. I think it has to do with not being able to balance the diff POVs. Also, people die or don’t die depending on what the plot dictates. They don’t try to make it seem logical. For example. the werewolves in Tennessee. None of them ran away. They just lined up for Klaus. Wouldn’t it have made sense to scatter? Klaus couldn’t have caught all of them. Same thing with Greta. She should have protected herself in some way but she had to die.

          • I think it has to do with not being able to balance the diff POVs.

            This becomes clearer and clearer the more episodes that air. Like how everyone who finds out the secret start thinking the same way as the Salvatores and Elena. They stop looking out for their best interest and start looking out for Elena and the Salvatores’ best interest.

    • Jeremy/Anna stuff bitter party of one. Why did it feel like they were the relationship and Bonnie was the ghost. At least he told her but instead of Bonnie’s reaction we get Anna’s. So now not only do I get the short end of the stick as a Bonnie fan but now as a Bonnie/Jeremy shipper.

      Party of two, actually. Especially that scene in the Lockwood house. I didn’t get the sense that Anna was the girlfriend and Bonnie the ghost though. Anna and Jeremy do have chemistry, they always did, but the thing is Anna is still kind of way more into this than he is.

      I think it was good we got to see Anna’s reaction. It certainly kept me on my toes because I thought Jeremy was to feel bad for her and back out of telling Bonnie the truth. I felt bad for her. But the good thing is that we did get a reaction from Bonnie. We didn’t see her face as Jeremy told her, but I’m sure she was just speechless. We saw in her last scene that she’s kind of not happy with this but more than anything she doesn’t know what to do or how to really feel. Better than getting an initial reaction like right when Jonas took her powers, and then in the next episode she’s an unfeeling robot.

      • On a shallow note I thought Bonnie looked really pretty in this episode. When Jeremy said he needed to tell her something I thought she looked very wide-eyed and innocent it was nice to see.

        • I thought she looked really pretty too. I think it was while Anna and Jeremy were having their Lockwood scene that I wrote, “Anyways. Bonnie looks amazing.” Lol. I was feeling bitter.

  6. Hi Kathrin. Your grammar is better than mine. English is my second language too. I figure as long as people understand what I am writing it is all good.

    I am watching the ep now. The ep has barely started and Jeremy is telling Anna that he was dreaming about her. Oh God. Not looking good for this ep

    Rebekah was a feminist! She wore pants in the 20s so women today can dress like prostitutes. THIS SHOW hates us.

    EW!! Vampire=/=Gay. And why are they bringing *Damon* into this metaphor? Liz: “Just because you and I are on good terms that doesn’t mean I am an advocate for your lifestyle” Damon “Is that what you told him[Bill] when you got divorced?” Ew Ew EW EW I CAN’T. Ugh! It is not “ironic” that a gay man wants to “out” you, Damon. You are not like a LGBTQ person. You are a MONSTER. What is wrong with this show? Or is that the point they are making. Shows like TB who do this are idiots??Ugh! It is not “ironic” that a gay man wants to “out” you, Damon. You are not like a LTBTQ person. You are a MONSTER. What is wrong with this show? Or is that the point they are making. Shows like TB who do this are idiots?? Maybe that is why they brought Damon into it this time. Plus, Alaric explicitly said that even though supes might be family or friends, they are still dangerous. Alaric’s finally became less useless.

    Why is Rebekah eating girls? Why isn’t she eating men? What is this show? Why are we watching this?

    Why didn’t Stefan rip apart this girl’s body? I thought he couldn’t control himself when he fed. I thought he fed with such force that would rip the women’s heads off or rip their bodies or something.

    Vampires just roam the earth by themselves when they die?? They can’t even see other dead people and living people can’t see them? Wow. That is a horrible fate.

    OMG! They are really giving the Jeremy/Anna shippers what they want. I would think that Jeremy’s feelings for Vicki would be stronger. Why did he let Anna in before Vicki?

    Jeremy only sees Anna when he is thinking of her.. So he is thinking of her all the time I guess. On the whole, I actually like this s/l. He did care about these girls deeply even if it wasn’t love (for Anna). I like that they are dealing with his feelings for them. I am going to hold off on any judgement until the end of the s/l. It is probably going to be about him having some closure. Their deaths were both traumatic events for him and both deaths were so sudden. When Anna says she senses darkness, I am betting that that is what vampire ghosts feel like. I am thinking that Vicki senses Anna as darkness too. I bet they are both “protecting” Jeremy from the other.

    I love that Jeremy told Bonnie. Yes! I thought they were going to drag it out a bit more. Speaking of Bonnie, does the Bonnie/Katherine scene in this ep remind anyone else of their scene in The Return. Both times Bonnie was trying to talk to Elena about something personal that wasn’t directly tied to Elena. Have we gotten a scene of Bonnie talking to Elena about herself since season one? I can’t recall.

    Gloria is being awesome which means she is going to die. I already know this from following several Tumblr accounts during the broadcast. I loved your icons Olu. LOLed for like a couple of mins straight. I loved the girl who put up pics of herself watching the show. Priceless!

    Stefan, unlike Damon, feels pain.

    I hate Katherine. I love that Stefan still hates her.

    Why didn’t this famous vampire hunter kill Stefan in the 20s?

    Just the right amount of Forwood. They got like 1 min. I love that this ep focused more on Caroline as an individual. I can only care about Tyler as Caroline’s boyfriend. The show got to his development too late for me.

    Damon can’t kill people around Elena or in Mystic Falls. So him killing people elsewhere is perfectly fine according to Elena. It is not possible for me to hate this character more. Why is Elena wearing short shorts so often this season? I thought she was strictly a full-length jeans girl.

    Damon/Katherine road trip. Yay! I am loving this.

    • Why is Rebekah eating girls? Why isn’t she eating men? What is this show? Why are we watching this?

      After a rewatch, I realized that this is because Klaus chose the victims.

    • Vampires just roam the earth by themselves when they die?? They can’t even see other dead people and living people can’t see them? Wow. That is a horrible fate.

      I would actually watch that show, a show about a bunch of dead vampires occasionally blinking into and out of people’s/each other’s lives because some terrible death/near death trauma was suffered.

      Apparently, the vampire hunter sucks at his job. Already. Before we even get to see him do it.

    • Rebekah was a feminist! She wore pants in the 20s so women today can dress like prostitutes. THIS SHOW hates us.

      You don’t think it’s great that feminist Rebecca is passing judgment on the way women dress just like the men do?

      Being a vampire is not even a damn lifestyle.

      I thought Rebecca wasn’t eating anyone in that scene.

      Why didn’t Stefan rip apart this girl’s body? I thought he couldn’t control himself when he fed. I thought he fed with such force that would rip the women’s heads off or rip their bodies or something.

      Good point. Sooooo, what the hell is going on? Because the trailer has him telling Elena that once he starts feeding on her, he won’t be able to stop. Yet in this episode, it was his idea to get something to eat and he was perfectly in control.

      Why did he let Anna in before Vicki?

      Exactly. Vicky’s the one who said help me. Wouldn’t ‘help me’ be stronger than ‘don’t trust Vicky?’ I don’t feel threatened by him thinking about or even dreaming about Anna. She’s in his life again and he has no idea why. Of course that’s going to take up a lot of his thoughts, especially since he’s not taking the whole thing seriously.

      It would be cool if ‘darkness’ is what a ghost vampire felt like as a ghost.

      Stefan, unlike Damon, feels pain.

      Ugh.

      • Rebecca wasn’t eating anyone. Which doesn’t make that much sense to me. She’s been on ice for 90 years. Shouldn’t she be hungry?

        Good point. Sooooo, what the hell is going on? Because the trailer has him telling Elena that once he starts feeding on her, he won’t be able to stop. Yet in this episode, it was his idea to get something to eat and he was perfectly in control.

        Another instance of the writers having no clue that what they’re showing us is not what they’re telling us. He can’t control himself, but he was in control in those flashbacks. He can’t control himself, but he left the girl’s body without ripping it apart so…it’s more bullshit. IF only the writers would commit to this storyline.

        • Rebecca should be a lot more pissed than she is. She was Klaus’ ally for years and he killed her the one time she made a different choice. Just like that. But instead of having her be pissed at him, she’s sitting there being a brat while Stefan and Klaus laugh and roll their eyes at what a brat she is. Oh but then they’re going to have her be angry over the fact that Stefan’s ex has her necklace. Rme.

          • I don’t get it at all because she wasn’t a brat in the flashbacks. Not even a little bit, so the writers deciding to take her to that place now is more laziness on their part. If they’d played a little more with the fact that Stefan was playing them off of each other, favoring Klaus, in order to never have them communicate too much about his behavior then maybe that would have worked. Because both of them clearly need attention, but Klaus needs it more and maybe that wouldn’t make sense to Rebecca, because in the 20s, Klaus was mostly just her brother in Stefan’s eyes. This show needs to pace itself.

            If I got a nickel every time I mentioned this show and pacing, I would be much richer than I am right now.

            • I actually thought that’s where they were going with it especially since, you know, they had Katherine mention playing Klaus and Rebecca against each other. But apparently on top of not believing in sense, this show doesn’t believe in executing a set up.

              • Yes, I thought that’s where they were going with that too. But that could have been potentially interesting and apparently we can’t have that.

                • I really liked that part of Stefan´s plan. Sometimes he isn´t that stupid (unless he interacts with witches). And first I thought it was wrong to reveal his plan to Katherine.
                  But it never worked out so that´s pretty much not important.

                  But that could have been potentially interesting and apparently we can’t have that.

                  Lol. I almost forgot about that.

                  • I think the point was that Stefan was trying to play Katherine’s game but couldn’t because he is not that kind of person. They actually built up to this by focusing on his numerous failed attempts at a poker face.

                    • My butt, Stefan is not that kind of person.

                      Word. Stefan is exactly that kind of person. He’s spent the show being the type of person to just lie about what he actually wants and who he actually is in order to achieve his own ends. He’s actually pretty amazing at accomplishing things in a way that doesn’t get his hands dirty.

                    • Lol. I am not disagreeing but I think that is what the ep was trying to say for some reason. Katherine kept pointing it out. Plus, Rebekah kept saying that she could read him easily. Plus, Gloria knew that he was going to attack her. Plus, the camera kept focusing on him whenever he was required to play dumb in the last couple of eps.

                      I think the show is still trying to sell the idea of honest Stefan against all odds. Either that or Rebekah knew him for years before she was boxed by Klaus.

                      None of this makes sense

            • I don’t get it at all because she wasn’t a brat in the flashbacks. Not even a little bit, so the writers deciding to take her to that place now is more laziness on their part.

              This is like when they gave Katherine the “spoiled” label. How is a 500 yr old vampire, who has been running for life since the age of 18 or so, spoiled in anyway? However, I can’t tell if this is the show’s position or if they are saying that this is the view of women that the Salvatores and Klaus have. They did show us how Katherine is so not spoiled with the flashbacks to her family

      • I thought Rebecca wasn’t eating anyone in that scene.

        She didn’t eat someone onscreen but she said something like, “My girl is dead. I am bored” while was sitting on the table waiting for the boys to finish up. It sounded like she ate a girl offscreen

          • Her girl was already dead … I think she laid next to Rebekahs sitting place.
            Looks like Stefan has more control than her.

            But it was very difficult for me to understand their conversation, don´t know if it was because of her accent or the fact that I wasn´t interested in that part of the episode.

    • Hi Susan! What is your first language? Mine is german.

      Rebekah was a feminist! She wore pants in the 20s so women today can dress like prostitutes. THIS SHOW hates us.

      Lol. I know I shouldn´t laugh about that but I can´t with this show.
      I didn´t get her point the first time. During that scene I only thought about the music in the background and tried to find out if this was a new song of Bloc Party or if Kele released a new solo record.
      I really should listen more to what they are saying. Or probably not. 😀
      But thanks for pointing that out.

      Stefan, unlike Damon, feels pain

      Right … during Damon´s torturing scenes he always has a snappy line and does look like he doesn´t feels anything.
      But I have to remind myself that he is the bad brother and so he is accustomed to torture.

      • Hi Susan! What is your first language? Mine is german.

        I am an African immigrant. That is all I am comfortable divulging at the moment. I am still getting comfortable with interacting with people online. Sorry!

        But I have to remind myself that he is the bad brother and so he is accustomed to torture.

        Stefan was pretty bad too (and is again). He must have made some enemies in the past. My headcannon is that Damon is legit crazy. That became clear to me when Tyler bit him last season. Caroline noticed something was wrong but Damon cut her off. Klaus knew something was wrong. Katherine knew he had a werewolf bite. The only person who didn’t know about was Damon. The dude with the actual injury. Basically, every single vampire that came close to him knew something was wrong immediately. It also seemed like he was in such a haze in that ep. It is probably a normal reaction to fucking up with the person you love especially if that person is going to die but everyone else was more clear headed. My headcannon probably makes no sense but I am sticking to it until the show gives me a better explanation to Damon’s wild mood swings, his recklessness, his lack of reaction to danger/pain and his inability to understand his affect on people. He seriously thought that a drink would be enough for Alaric to forgive him. They were friends. This is not the same as when they were enemies. I have this vague sense that Damon feels a sense of helplessness despite all his power. And he compensates with inappropriate displays of domination. I mean, in this ep, he was super upset that everyone was getting on him to change and that is why he lashed out. Except he didn’t seem to understand that they don’t actually have any *power* over him. They can want what they want. They can’t do anything about it really unless he lets them. He didn’t need to prove anything to them right that second or at anytime. When Katherine said she wanted something from Stefan, he dismissed her with something like, “It is nice to want things”. I can’t imagine Damon saying the same to anyone.

        Idk. I am just rambling at this point.

  7. I wonder if Rebekah’s ability to read people actually is supernatural. Maybe it is like Klaus’ spidey sense. She did she that she could “sense” that Stefan wasn’t with them.

    • I don’t think so. I think she just stole Klaus’ common sense. Because she couldn’t read that Gloria had something more up her sleeve when she said she needed more time or something.

        • oooh! How awesome would it be if Gloria comes back to life because she had Rebekah’s blood in her system? LOL. I like the show in my head better.

            • I hate that most of my ships on this get killed so quickly.

              R.I.P Rebekah/Gloria
              R.I.P Elijah/Jenna
              R.I.P Bonnie/Luka (Ugh! Why isn’t he haunting her like Anna is haunting Jeremy?)

                • I forgot to mention R.I.P Elena/Brain

                  Strangely, the one relationship I am really invested in is a platonic one – Bonnie/Caroline. I was kinda pissed that we didn’t see Bonnie and Caroline meetup. I was like, DON’T HUG ELENA, Bonnie 😛

                  Also, random thought – Chilli is the thing that most people bring to a potluck?? I thought the dish everyone brings to a potluck is potato salad. Is chilli a Southern thing? Or is potato salad a thing just in my city?

                  • is Brian Lexi’s boyfriend?

                    I’m all over Bonnie/Caroline. I didn’t want Bonnie to hug Elena either, But I was happy that Bonnie saw Caroline first again. Why are their scenes off screen? You know Caroline was talking shit about Elena always hanging out with that Damon monster. I’d love to listen in on one of Bonnie/Caroline’s phone calls. 🙂 I wish that when Bonnie came over she waved to Elena and ran into Jeremy’s arms, because you know that’s the only reason she was at the house at all. OKAY! 😉

                    I don’t know about the chilli. It might be a mystic falls thing. I wash thinking Jello molds, but I’m weird like that. I would bring Guacamole. 🙂 Like Cordelia Chase says: I’m the dip!

                    • Yeah, I’d rather see Bonnie/Caroline onscreen than Bonnie/Elena or Caroline/Elena.

                      You know Caroline was talking shit about Elena always hanging out with that Damon monster. I’d love to listen in on one of Bonnie/Caroline’s phone calls.

                      Lol. Sometimes I daydream about Caroline calling Bonnie up after that horrid double date in season 1.

                    • is Brian Lexi’s boyfriend?

                      Lol. No. What I meant by R.I.P Elena/Brain is that my hope of Elena ever growing a brain is now dead. I shipped Elena/Brain like I ship Damon/Stake. Damon and Stake are meant to be together. Make it happen show

                    • It is an easy mistake to make especially since I wrote it like an actual ship. I was trying to be all ~ironic.

                  • Okay first after the last two seasons I think it is pretty difficult to ship anybody on this show … because you will always be disappointed.
                    But here we go (please don´t judge me)

                    Matt/Screentime/Bonnie OT3 for life.
                    I really loved their friendship in season 1 and was disappointed in season 2 after Caroline turned into a vampire.
                    Hopefully we get some really good scenes in the next episodes. I´m really excited for that.

                    Bonnie/Caroline – I want them together for the rest of their life … and I always become sad if I think about Caroline never growing old.
                    I really don´t want Elena to become a vampire … because then she will live with Caroline forever and that doesn´t fit well with my Bonnie-heart.

                    Bonnie/Damon – I know. At the moment I hate him … and I don´t know if this will ever change again, but I can´t let go of that ship, I really can´t.
                    I try to, but I doesn´t work. I think the fantastic fanfiction is the main reason why I still hold on to that ship.

                    Bonnie/Elijah – for the pretty and I´m a fan of him. But Bonnie has to set him on fire for being so dumb and listening to Klaus. And I thought she would save him, after what Kat said in her interview Neux interview. But I don´t know if she meant Jeremy in this episode because she saved him from that fire- *shrug*

                    Bonnie/Klaus/death – I know that won´t happen on the show … because she got her chance and now somebody from the ghostworld will end him.
                    But if she would die killing him. 1. I could finally leave this show. 2. Her death would have a greater purpose.

                    I ship/shipped Bonnie probably with almost everybody on the show … except for Jeremy, but I warmed up to their relationship.
                    But I would have liked her and Tyler better … especially after I see this Forwood rl now.

                    Klaus/Stefan – It could be the greatest love story of all time, if the writers wouldn´t screw it up … and I think Joseph Morgan ships it hardcore and you can see this on screen.

                    This would be my main ships. But I really would have liked UJ/Jenna too. But after what Susan said, this can´t even happen in the afterlife if Jenna is all alone in the ghostworld as vampire.

                    • Bonnie and Stefan are characters I can ship with anyone, so I get you on all the Bonnie ships. Even Bamon, which I only ship in a really twisted she’s constantly throwing him off cliffs with her mind way.

                      Matt/Screentime/Bonnie OT3 for life. I really loved their friendship in season 1 and was disappointed in season 2 after Caroline turned into a vampire. Hopefully we get some really good scenes in the next episodes. I´m really excited for that.

                      YES! How great would it have been to have a scene between them last season after Caroline was turned and Matt didn’t know why she was acting so weird and was dealing with his feelings and being essentially alone again, and Bonnie was dealing with Caroline being a vampire, but not being able to tell Matt about it, but they were still being friends for each other.

                      Klaus/Stefan – It could be the greatest love story of all time, if the writers wouldn´t screw it up … and I think Joseph Morgan ships it hardcore and you can see this on screen.

                      Yes. to all of this. if the writers were less lip-service more about…actually writing stories then Stefan/Klaus could have been framed as a love story with 90 year stop gap and been amazing but completely twisted.

              • R.I.P Elijah/Jenna

                They would have been grand…of course they would have had to be grand in my mind so maybe it’s a lose-win?

              • I would have loved to see this Luka come back to haunt Bonnie. Of course it wouldn’t have the same emotional punch since Luka and Bonnie never dated, but it would have been cool to see them make amends with each other and maybe see Jeremy’s reaction to the fact that Bonnie might talk to Luka about this Anna and Vicky situation (on top of talking to Caroline. And Matt. I’ve been fantasizing of her talking to Matt about it).

                • I’ve been fantasizing of her talking to Matt about it).

                  Me too. I just want him to be listening to her and offering her reassurance and them to have jokes about how this is not exactly the sort of situation where one can offer advice. & for there to be some awkwardness because of Vicki, not bad awkwardness, but something about how he can’t see her.

                  • Yes and at one point she’d ask him if he’s Jeremy’s representative because she knows they’ve been hanging out a lot, and towards the end of the conversation he’d say something, and she’d go, “Thanks…Jeremy,” and he’d go, “You’re welcome…Caroline,” because he’d know she already talked to Caroline about the situation and some of the things Bonnie would bring up would clearly sound like worst case scenarios Caroline had thought up. And it would be the best scene of the episode.

                    • at one point she’d ask him if he’s Jeremy’s representative because she knows they’ve been hanging out a lot, and towards the end of the conversation he’d say something, and she’d go, “Thanks…Jeremy,” and he’d go, “You’re welcome…Caroline,” because he’d know she already talked to Caroline about the situation and some of the things Bonnie would bring up would clearly sound like worst case scenarios Caroline had thought up.

                      I’m going to go cry because this probably won’t happen and it would be so beautiful if it did.

                    • Scenes that will never happen on this show, because than it would be a good show can’t have that.

                      Just like I feel like the Caroline and her father arc could have been really good. I loved when he said she is not going to be okay because she is a vampire what a good story that could have been.
                      We have never seen Caroline really deal with what it means to be a vampire she will be seventeen forever, Bonnie and Elena and her future husband Tyler *sarcasm* will age and she won’t she can’t have kids. She is frozen in time.
                      It’s never been properly dealt with she will live forever. I think in a way he’s right she isn’t going to be okay but he tortured her and so everything he says is wrong. They shouldn’t have done the torture.

                    • Just like I feel like the Caroline and her father arc could have been really good.

                      I think this storyline would have been SO MUCH better if they had included just one extra scene. A scene of Bill with what he thinks is a human Caroline. The could have happened in the premiere instead of Forwood sexy times/talk. This way when Bill rejected his daughter, it would have meant something to us. As it stands, we have no specifics on what she is losing because we have never seen her relationship with her father. He barely feels like her father to me. He could be some family friend as far as I am concerned

                    • I really think the twist in the Bill/Caroline arc should have been that he is a vampire hunter/torturer and not that he is her father. Like say he was introduced first as her father.

                      They wrote him as a vampire hunter/torturer first and the twist was that he is Caroline’s dad. The first identity is what was in my head longer. The second one is less important because it was introduced while he was fulfilling the duties of his first identity. It would have been great if they had introduced him in the first ep just as a dad visiting his daughter. But he was really there because Carol called him to investigate vampires. He doesn’t know it is about Caroline when he goes to hang out with her. This way they could have established his non-vampire hunter persona and established his relationship with his daughter in just one scene. Carol could have still expressed her reservations about Caroline, after she captured her, on the phone with Bill without us being shown Bill. That way he wouldn’t have been oddly stone faced while Carol was freaking out about his daughter. The OMFG!Twist moment could have been Carol inviting an unseen “vampire hunter” into wherever she was keeping Caroline. She opens a door to reveal Caroline and the camera pans over to reveal who this vampire hunter is. Dun Dun Dun. Maybe this is predictable but the way they did it was predictable too. I knew he was Caroline’s dad as soon as I saw him.

            • Hold on. Shouldn’t Gloria’s body heal it self at least half way? She found a way to slow down aging. Isn’t that another way to say that she found a way for her body to heal itself more efficiently? Isn’t that how vampires don’t age? They heal perfectly.

              I am in DENIAL

              • I really think the twist in the Bill/Caroline arc should have been that he is a vampire hunter/torturer and not that he is her father. Like say he was introduced first as her father.

                YES. The twist definitely should have been that he was a hunter and not that he was her father. They could have bypassed the torture and had them actually have this really emotional scene where he was asking her how it happened, but unwilling to let her go because she’s still a vampire and he doesn’t know if he can trust her because she was going to keep it from him and Caroline could have spoken to him about how things didn’t have to change and she was still his daughter/she’s okay and he could have dropped the line about how she’s a vampire and he doesn’t think she’s ever going to be okay again. Then he could have just taken her home, took her ring, asked her to go on animal blood, and her angst could have been about the fact that with the exceptions of Bonnie’s and Matt’s, and Liz’s initial responses, no one has ever confronted her with the fact that she died in quite that way.

                • What you said.

                  But even keeping the torture in, I think it was important to establish their relationship *first* because the torture scene didn’t feel as tragic as it could have been. It was almost like when Brady tortured her. It didn’t have the weight it should have.

                  As it stands, I have no specifics on what she is losing because I have never seen her relationship with her father. He might as well be some family friend or her teacher or some distant relative or her doctor or whatever. He could be any adult in her life.

                  Her father rejected her and I can’t say that I care too much. She still has Liz. That is the relationship I care about because I have actually seen onscreen.

                • I completely agree. The last conversation between Caroline and Bill was the first time they actually talked since he’s been in town. As such, it wasn’t as good as it could’ve been. They put the resolution in the first conversation they’ve had. It would’ve been better had her hurt come from her father verbally rejecting her. The torture seriously wasn’t needed. Plus telling her dad that she’s going to be okay just highlights how passively she took the whole thing. She didn’t get angry once. It’s good to get angry sometimes. But no, her dad tortured and she accepted that he just hated her. Her dad is leaving, so she just tells him she’s going to be okay. And let’s not forget she managed to have banter with him when she told him to grow up.

                • I just realized that what I was trying to say earlier is that the arc felt like it had a middle and an end but not a beginning. I had a similar feeling with a lot of the arcs last season. Like there should be points A, B and C in each arc but every arc in TVD was missing one or two of those points

                  • I agree with all of you in regards to that Bill/Caroline storyline … I didn´t get that father/daughter vibe from them and that is why (and because she gets tortured all the time) I couldn´t really emotionally connect with Caro in this scenes.
                    Probably he should have been introduced in season one or at the beginning of season 2 to work that connection on screen … but this at the beginning of season three was only halfway thought through … like almost all storylines on that show.

  8. Want to point out two things, which aren´t related to another, but I have to get it out

    1. I don´t like Klaus´s wardrobe.

    2. Do they seriously want to start this “Save the doppelgänger, save the world” for this season again? Elena died and so the curse was broken. Klaus can change into a wolf at will and Katherine got in the boarding house after the ritual. The spell required the death of the doppelgänger and this happened. Nobody talked about staying dead. I don´t get what this is about and I hope their is another reason for Klaus´s failed hybrid army.

    I thought I had a third point but I must have forgotten it.

    • Oh I got it:

      3. Don´t know if it was only me but as Damon was biting Bill it looked like he was nibbling on him … did that look like that everytime he bites someone? I think it sounded and looked really strange, but this could only be me.

      • 3. Damon said that he wasn’t planning to kill Bill. He said something like he wanted to find pleasure in perfect little moments. He said that he just missed the taste of fresh blood…..which is weird because Andie died just a few days ago. How did he even have time to miss fresh blood? I think he wanted to assert his dominance over Bill or something. He told Caroline in the middle of their fight that he wanted to teach Bill a lesson. So yeah, I think he was nibbling

        • Thanks for elaborating that Susan … and right Andie died a few days ago.
          Don´t know what it was but it looked really weird to me. *shrug*

    • Hi Kathrin!

      1. ITA. The necklaces are the worst imo.
      2. Yes, I’m afraid. I had hopes that there was another reason but it has been stated several times now, so it’s not looking too good, I’d say. And yes, it makes no sense whatsoever. I guess everything has to revolve around Elena on this show?

    • 1. I don´t like Klaus´s wardrobe.

      YES. Someone else is bothered by the fact that he only owns three shirts. I was miscounting before: 1) the long-sleeved greyish-blue shirt, 2) the long sleeved cream colored shirt with the weird color, and the short sleeved grey shirt.

      He needs to head to Burberry and compel a personal shopper or something.

    • I don’t know why Klaus likes that necklace he’s always wearing.

      2. You know what’s stupid? The curse never even mentioned Klaus being able to make hybrids, so why should Elena’s status as ‘alive’ be affecting it? What’s also stupid is that they’re not going to have Klaus succeed at making hybrids. They’re not going to kill Elena, so what is the point of this?!

      • What’s also stupid is that they’re not going to have Klaus succeed at making hybrids. They’re not going to kill Elena, so what is the point of this?!

        The point I believe is one of the four options:

        a) To make us rage about how stupid the show is.
        b) To make the few people who somehow still find the show well thought out jump up and down and cheer about who the hell knows what because it won’t be good and we’ll be raging.
        c) To test the limits of their inability to execute a storyline.
        d) All of the above.

    • “Save the doppelgänger, save the world”

      They really are taking it there. I guess and season of TVD is really one unless everything is about saving Elena. And I hope when they all turn to look at Bonnie for help she tells them that her dad is calling her and she has to go. 😉

      • And I hope when they all turn to look at Bonnie for help she tells them that her dad is calling her and she has to go.

        That would be cool and that is why it will never happen. 😛

  9. The scene when Beremy where talking and Anna was crying should have been a scary scene, right? I mean, we just found out that dead vampires might be doomed to an eternity alone – probably slowly going crazy because they can see life but never participate. This isn’t like the dead witches. At least, witches have each other. They can communicate with dead and live witches. When Anna said that my mind immediately flashed to Pearl. Anna spent a lot of time and effort to reunite with her mom and now they are probably in the same town and can never see each other. Then I thought of JENNA. My face was like 😯 After everything, Jenna is stuck by herself FOREVER?!!! Probably crying in a corner or something. She will never be at peace??? And then I thought of Rose and Lexi and Harper. Jeez! Why didn’t they make that Anna moment more dramatic? They just revealed something important and scary about vampires. This made me think that Bill knew what he was talking about when he told Caroline that she will never be fine. Vampires souls are diff, right? And not in a good way it seems.

    It is weird that the show is not shot like a horror movie like it was in season one, right? It seems to me that they should have played with perspective (maybe made her look small and far away while she cried) or had the bathroom light turned off so she was crying in the dark. Why is this show so bright now? It is teetering dangerously close to Smallville territory. Smallville was shot brilliantly but this show is completely different.

    • Then I thought of JENNA. My face was like 😯 After everything, Jenna is stuck by herself FOREVER?!!! Probably crying in a corner or something. She will never be at peace??? And then I thought of Rose and Lexi and Harper. Jeez!

      Noooooooooo! This show!!!

      • That *was* genuinely scary, right? It wasn’t just me? Of course, it is hard to be scared when everything is brightly shot with a soft glow. It looks like everything is airbrushed.

    • I think that scene of Anna crying was supposed to be really sad. I saw it that way at least.

      If that is their point, then they need to state it more clearly. I didn’t even think they were saying all ghosts roam alone until I saw some people saying that. It’s a cool punishment I guess for the people they’ve killed/used. Vampirism is supposed to be a curse even though the show is now making it seem like a lifestyle.

      I thought the show was reeeaaallly dark last season. It seemed like most of the scenes were taking place at night.

      • I think that scene of Anna crying was supposed to be really sad. I saw it that way at least.

        I agree that it was sad. I meant that is should have been a *scary* moment as well because what Anna (and potentially all dead vampires) is going through is scary. It seems to me that they should have heightened that sense of isolation and despair through the direction/cinematography/wtvr of the scene. A scene about a girl who is going to be alone forever and ever – perhaps for centuries or millenia (who knows) – should look different from a scene about a girl crying about a break up or a failed test.

        • Remember in season one when Damon came out of nowhere to attack Vicki? I miss those kind of horror movie type of scenes. Season 2 didn’t really have those. It was just dark.

      • The other scenes that I thought should have been shot like they are creepy were whenever Gloria was accessing the necklace and watching the girls through it. It should have been a little bit like when the girls had their seance or wtvr it was that they did that got Emily to possess Bonnie in season one. Remember how creepy that scene was? I mean, someone is *spying* on them – someone who is powerful/dangerous. Why was it shot outside with bright sunshine and the necklace just floating like it is nothing. Idk. Maybe make it look like the necklace has a mind of its own. Like have it turn every which way as Gloria’s head turns and have it move closer to someone’s face as scary music plays. Just something. This show is supposed to have elements of *horror* in it.

          • The show sold out those creepy moments for shock, twists, and loud Something Is Happening music.

            Perhaps Kevin Williamson was responsible for this kind of moments and now he brought it to Secret Circle (I watched ep 4 and the promo for ep 5 looks also scary).
            Don´t know how much involved he is in the series at that time.

            • You might be on to something. Kevin Williamson wrote the Scream movies. He got busy with Scream 4 sometime during season 2 and now he is busy with The Secret Circle

  10. Well, I didn’t care about this ep too much. It was wasn’t as terrible as “The Hybrid” by any means, but … I don’t know. I felt like I didn’t understand half of what was going on, lol. I mean, I know what the show is trying to tell me, I just don’t get why half of the things going on in this episode were actually happening.

    Like the Klaus/Rebecca/Stefan stuff. It didn’t make any sense to me. I don’t get how we got from last week’s final moments (Stefan ‘remembering’ and being kind of shaken) to their interaction in this week’s episode. Actually, I thought the writers were going to milk this Stefan/Rebecca stuff for all its worth and I wasn’t opposed to that idea tbh.

    Bill’s line about the council – something like “… or is the council simply that stupid” – was such an Uncle John line! Imo, he also delivered it like UJ would have. Took me right out of the show and made me miss UJ even more.
    (In general, I feel like a lot of characters on this show occasionally sound like other characters and it is very distracting. Like, in last week’s ep, when Stefan called Klaus a “hybrid dick.” That was something I’d expect Damon to say.)

    The fiercest person in this episode was Gloria. But credit where credit’s due, Alaric was great too.

    • Like the Klaus/Rebecca/Stefan stuff. It didn’t make any sense to me. I don’t get how we got from last week’s final moments (Stefan ‘remembering’ and being kind of shaken) to their interaction in this week’s episode.

      It made the whole thing completely unnecessary. Stefan now remembers so you think we’re going to get some stuff between him/Klaus/Rebecca. Maybe some actual bonding and Stefan could get attached to them again, but nope! They’re all going to Mystic Falls! The End of The Affair was literally just a flashback episode. It didn’t actually do anything for Stefan’s character. Just made him remember something. They could’ve introduced the vamp hunter another way.

      • I was thinking earlier about how, if they had paced this at any point since the whole Original business came up, then they could have at least attempted to give Stefan Stockholm Syndrome, which would have involved Klaus being more violent/affectionate towards him in order to condition him. Anything to get us to the point where they were closer and then the flashbacks happened and I thought they were going to go there.

        Only they did absolutely nothing with it. Even if he wasn’t going to be hooking up with Rebecca (though there should have been some sort of emotion there considering he should have been flooded with those feelings as if he was taken back to that moment when he was trying to leave with them and was still in love/had feelings for her) there should have been more there between him and Klaus.

        • I agree. If the story accomplished nothing else, it should have created a genuine camaraderie between Klaus and Stefan and Stefan/Klaus/Rebecca. As it is, I’m left wondering this: before Rebecca sold him out (which I actually thought was a great twist. It surprised me), did Rebecca genuinely think Stefan was still in love with her…even though he wasn’t acting like it and the show didn’t bother to have him act like it?

          Olu, I’m having a horrible thought. What if there comes a point later on where Stefan is clearly lying to Rebecca…but the plot says she can’t tell? It would mean that the writers once again introduced something only to execute it in the same episode.

          • As it is, I’m left wondering this: before Rebecca sold him out (which I actually thought was a great twist. It surprised me), did Rebecca genuinely think Stefan was still in love with her…even though he wasn’t acting like it and the show didn’t bother to have him act like it?

            It would have been a better twist if Stefan had made an attempt to seem like he was in love with her. I’m going to fanwank that she thought something was off from the start and just wanted the confirmation of both his questions and the lack of passion in his kiss. Otherwise it was about convenience.

            What if there comes a point later on where Stefan is clearly lying to Rebecca…but the plot says she can’t tell?

            I don’t know what will annoy me more if this happens: 1) the show suddenly remembering that Stefan can lie 2) the show forgetting about Rebecca being able to read him 3) the fact that they’re still not going to let him go bad all the way or 5) that this storyline would have been better if there had been even one more episode between The End of the Affair and Disturbing Behavior.

            • 1) the show suddenly remembering that Stefan can lie

              The worst part of these eps, tbqh. I hate all the Stefan “poker face” gifs that have been floating around.

              If the story accomplished nothing else, it should have created a genuine camaraderie between Klaus and Stefan and Stefan/Klaus/Rebecca.

              Do you think there is any chance at all that they will still do this? I don’t think they are going kill off Klaus anytime soon. Plus, the producers said that this Klefan storyline was going to be a long one. There has to be more, right? There has to be. Otherwise, they just wasted 4 eps on this storyline that leads nowhere. The interview I am talking about is an old one so I am not sure if they have changed their minds now.

              • The poker gifs are amusing, but just highlight the fact that the show is ignoring that Stefan is the most capable liar on the show, both in ability and by the sheer fact that most everyone assumes that he tells the truth. One would figure that he’d be pretty good at keeping his face controlled. I can fanwank both moments as 1) he was bitten by a werewolf and 2) he’d just remembered that he use to hang out with Klaus so physically and emotionally he wasn’t at his best.

                Do you think there is any chance at all that they will still do this?

                Assuming Stefan finally (finally) lets go? I think so. I certainly hope so. It would be a waste to not have Stefan, since Klaus is already there, at least start to consider Klaus as a friend, despite himself. The storyline can’t end here. I think I read that interview too. I remember JP saying that Stefan was going to be out of MF for at least the first half of the season so I’m going to pretend that she meant that he’s going to be leaving again and will be gone for at least 8 more episodes.

                If they changed their minds…I have to remind myself that I’m writing fix-it fic and will not let the whims of the writers hurt me because they are stupid.

  11. More random thoughts

    The sign that Liz and Damon passed by to get into the dungeon Bill was locked up in (how many dungeons in this town, btw?) read City Jail Built 1860. So that is where Bill took Caroline – under the city jail. It is interesting that it was built 4 years before the attempted vampire massacre. How long were the Forbes/Founding Families working against Katherine and her crew? Or maybe there were other vampires in Mystic Falls before Katherine.

    Stefan should have co-operated with Gloria. She just wanted the necklace. She said that she wouldn’t help “that Hybrid half breed” with anything. I don’t understand why he didn’t try to get her on his side. They could have schemed behind Klaus’ back. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that. Katherine was right. Stefan is not the diabolical type. Make alliances, Stefan. That is how Katherine managed to survive all this time (Mason, Pearl, Emily, Lucy, etc)

    Do you guys think that Stefan’s plan that Katherine described is what she did to the Salvatores back in the day? The whole not pretending to care because your mark will know better and therefore, bonding with another person so the first person will want you more. I am thinking the first person was Damon and the second person was Stefan back in 1864.

    How funny was it that Alaric resurrected just as Damon was shaking a drink by his ear?

    How can Caroline live in a town that has vervain in it’s water supply? Plus, I thought it was established that vervain is hard to come by. Where are they getting all this vervain all of a sudden?

    There were only 4 caskets in the truck. Klaus and Rebekah makes 6. Did Elijah say that there were 7 Originals in total or that there were 7 brothers and sisters + parents?

    Why are so many people in fandom calling Damon a “dick” instead of some other word? Like say psycho or asshole. It is like when Damon called Bonnie “judgy” so she was called judgy forever. It is no big deal but I am never buying the argument that is all just entertainment again. Obviously, people are getting brainwashed.

    • Stefan didn’t work with Gloria because 1) that would have been smart and 2) the writers are stupid. She’s a powerful witch who even Klaus is wary of, at the very least, get yourself in her good graces fool!

      I think Katherine was just messing with Damon and Stefan back in the day. They were humans. There’s not much they could have done if they spoke about her, and they did seem to speak about her anyway. Anyway, she compelled Stefan and had Damon’s complete devotion, so there was no real need to play them off of each other.

      How funny was it that Alaric resurrected just as Damon was shaking a drink by his ear?

      lmao! Oh, Alaric. Resident alcoholic.

      How come people are always exiting this show through death? With the exception of Bill and Lucy, no one ever just leaves town to do their own thing.

      I think there are 7 originals in total.

      How can Caroline live in a town that has vervain in it’s water supply? Plus, I thought it was established that vervain is hard to come by. Where are they getting all this vervain all of a sudden?

      1) Does she drink water? It’s a weak, but possible explanation.
      2) Vervain and wolfsbane are supposed to be hard to come by and yet, Alaric has wolfsbane bombs and Stefan has wolfsbane cocktails and there is vervain in the water supply. I don’t know. It should probably be harder to come by than it originally was since Damon killed Zach and Zach was the one who was growing it. They never resolved how they were getting new vervain. (And no one has asked after Zach since Damon said he left town. As far as I remember anyway.)

      • 1) Does she drink water? It’s a weak, but possible explanation.

        How would she shower? How would she wash dishes? She still eats human food so she wouldn’t be able to drink coffee or eat anything that requires water to make. How would she touch anything wet again? I can imagine her sitting in the Mystic Grill and touching a table that was recently wiped down.

        (And no one has asked after Zach since Damon said he left town. As far as I remember anyway.)

        This is another reason I can’t buy the Liz/Damon friendship/alliance. Maybe she doesn’t know what he did to Caroline but she knows that no one has heard from Zach in a really really long time. I thought she cared about protecting the town.

        • I don’t know. Why do they have access to the entire town’s water supply? Are they going to remember about the vervain in the water supply next week when everyone is going to be trapped in the high school? Probably not.

        • This is another reason I can’t buy the Liz/Damon friendship/alliance.

          Oh my God, I had so many problems with Liz/Damon in this episode. Short version? Welcome to the group, Liz. And we know that’s always a bad thing.

          • Oh my God, I had so many problems with Liz/Damon in this episode

            Me too. It was horrible.
            I always thought what she is during the first two episodes and why we didn´t see her and only heard that she helped on the search for Stefan.

            Hopefully that storyline with Alaric/Liz/Carol works out and I don´t want them to interact with Damon the way like in this episode anymore.
            Urgh.

      • I think there are 7 originals in total.

        Starting at 6:08 or so in the following video, Elijah tells Elena that his *mother* bore 7 children at about 1:34 of the following video

        In a diff part of the ep, he told Elena that his entire fam (including his father) were turned into vampires. Only after his dad became a vampire, did he start the vampire/werewolf war. So that should be 9 originals, right? But only 6 are accounted for so far. The writers are probably not paying this much attention to the details so there is probably no point in all of this 😛

        This is what I do when I can’t sleep

        • Starting at 6:08 or so in the following video

          Sorry for this error. I started out with a diff video and forgot to delete the above portion

        • Yeah, that’s a flub on the writers’ part because earlier Stefan had said there are 7 Original vampires. I don’t know why they couldn’t have Elijah say his mother bore 5 children.

    • I don’t understand why he didn’t try to get her on his side.

      Because they needed to kill Gloria? Or they needed to create fake drama? Or Stefan is really crazy in that he not only wants to protect Elena, but he wants to protect everything that’s important to her. Including her necklace.

      I think that was definitely Katherine’s plan. Stefan even said she wanted him to take a page from her playbook.

      • Stefan is in love with everything Elena. He would die for her clothes. I bet he sheds a tear each time she has to get rid of old clothes. Maybe he carefully picks them up from the garbage or donation boxes and stores them in the Salvatore attic. I can imagine him sitting in front of an Elena shrine filled with discarded water bottles and old hair clips. It is his new Murder List Wall.

    • How can Caroline live in a town that has vervain in it’s water supply? Plus, I thought it was established that vervain is hard to come by. Where are they getting all this vervain all of a sudden?

      I thought that was Bill´s idea to put the vervain in the water suply and this was one reason why Damon was so pissed.
      Don´t think they did that kind of thing before … Liz wouldn´t have allowed that or so I would think because of Caroline.

      Perhaps the Fell children (are there any?) found a solution to grow vervain asexuell en masse because they still go to school and participated in a big biology/genetic experiment for rare plants.

      • Oh right. It was Bill. I don’t know why I thought it was Liz/Alaric/Carol. Weird. I guess I really want the SHERIFF or the MAYOR to, you know, actually think about their jobs onscreen.

  12. Lol. There are more posts here about this ep than in the fanforum ep thread. There are almost as many posts as in the TWOP ep thread and the vampire-diaries.net ep thread is not beating us by that much considering we are only about 5-8 people here.

    Obsessive? Nah, not us

  13. It will never happen, but I would love if Bonnie, Matt, Jeremy, Tyler, and Caroline gave Elena wide berth after next week. Especially if, at least two of them, were very upfront about the fact that “Your boyfriend is a psycho and you still want to help him even though he with his psycho friends turned our high-school into a murderer’s playground and tried to kill all of us. And then he left with them and I really think you don’t have a brain or a heart or senses and your stupidity/maniacal devotion may start rubbing off on us. So I’m out.”

  14. Yes I think so that´s what I got from Rebekah. She says to Klaus “He asked about Michael” or something like that and I thought how could that be her father like so many speculated. First I know many people do that but I wouldn´t call my parents by their name and second she said that very unpersonal … as if it didn´t affect her.

    If he’s her father, she could be referring to him by his first name to show allegiance to Klaus. But I doubt he is. From the way Elijah spoke, it seemed Klaus had killed to parents too. Unless the producers decide to retcon it.

    What if Michael’s a werewolf who knew the family Klaus’ dad killed? It’s weird to think of this show having a big bad who’s not a vamp, but…

    • What if Michael’s a werewolf who knew the family Klaus’ dad killed? It’s weird to think of this show having a big bad who’s not a vamp, but…

      Why would he be after Klaus though? Would he blame him, even though he was probably a baby at the time his father killed the weres?

      Now that I’m thinking about it, did Klaus’s dad just go over to the other guys house and kill his entire family while the Originals were still human? Because that could potentially explain some things (about how Klaus feels like an outsider in his family if his father was willing to do that, but it would also leave a lot of things up in the air. Like the hows. And what about his actual father? Did he die before he knew about Klaus or did he never know about Klaus? Or did he just not care? Maybe he tried to take him and that lead to his death or something? I’m putting too much thought into this, once again.

      • I really don´t understand this original werewolf/vampire storyline.

        I thought Klaus father killed the whole werewolf- family … either the werewolves are older then the vampires and they could procreate so their family-line didn´t die out or there were other werewolf-families so werewolves couldn´t die out.

        And I thought Werewolves can grow old and will eventually die … or are this orignal werewolves special snow flakes aswell.
        It´s complicated … and I don´t think they will ever work that out.

        Maybe he is a another supernatural being … KW said that they would introduce more if there is the right time for that. *shrug*

        • Klaus’ birth dad wasn’t the original werewolf family. That haven’t said anything about original werewolves (I wish I could say the same about witches), and Elijah (I think it was) said werewolves were older than vampires, so there were other families.

          Ugh, the show has told us the Sun/Moon curse is fake which means we don’t know why the werewolves are almost extinct. Will they tell us? No. That would require a storyline focused on Tyler’s character/heritage.

      • Klaus’ dad would have had to have been a vamp already otherwise the werewolves could’ve just killed him (stay with me here. The werewolves are actually competent in this scenario). Klaus’ dad has to have known about him, otherwise it’s very anticlimactic. Maybe he knew and just accepted that Klaus would be raised by his stepfather.

        He might be after Klaus because Klaus’ stepdaddy killed his whole family. Since Klaus would’ve been just a baby, he might have let the anger blind him and he might not feel any connection to him. Maybe he views him as an abomination too. Especially since werewolves existed before vampires and (in my head. The show might screw it up) werewolves weren’t made.

        • Maybe he does consider him an abomination. That would at least inform Klaus’s decision to break the curse. Maybe he sees it as a way to win Michael over even though it probably wouldn’t.

          Like, who is to say Klaus even wanted to be a vampire? Maybe it was forced on him as a way to bypass the werewolf thing and then the witches who did the spell…why would they have to do the spell? That’s what I’m no longer getting because outside of not being able to die, Klaus doesn’t seem more powerful than before.

          • You’re right about that. He’s not really going on killing people. That’s actually Stefan’s deal. And Klaus is too dim to throw off the balance, so what the heck? His hearing doesn’t work, he’s not a super predator, he’s not even a mediocre predator.

            • And they don’t make death important enough on this show to make it important that he can’t die so…

              His hearing doesn’t work, he’s not a super predator, he’s not even a mediocre predator.

              Klaus isn’t even a bad predator. He’s like a scavenger, with occasional hunting instincts.

              I was actually thinking about the fact that, because they’re going so half-assed on this storyline and like refuse to even make Klaus’s werewolf side that big of a deal, we’ve been robbed of Damon making insinuations that Stefan is Klaus’s bitch, because Klaus would clearly consider himself an alpha.

              I was looking forward to them playing with the whole now Klaus is a wolf, but his pack consists of Stefan.

              • I can’t get over the fact that Klaus doesn’t have a posse. I can’t. Do they realize the Trapped in School thing could’ve been more fun and scary of Klaus actually had various circles like Elijah led us to believe? 

                • Do they realize the Trapped in School thing could’ve been more fun and scary of Klaus actually had various circles like Elijah led us to believe?

                  Fun? Scary? These words don’t exist in the writers’s minds. Shockingly piss poor meta is all they know.

                  I actually don’t buy Klaus not having a posse. Especially if he can just compel people to stick around. He’s not so bad that I can see him turning everyone off. He managed to attract Stefan and he had a posse when Katherine was still human so…I don’t know. Maybe they didn’t want to work to have a bunch of extras hanging about. We’re lucky. One of his posse would have ended up a regular or something.

                  • Shockingly piss poor meta is all they know.

                    I actually laughed out loud.

                    I don’t buy it either. Come on now, this guy is the first Vampire ever and you mean to tell me the only people he knows are witches and Stefan? No vampire Katherine’s age wanted to be his underling? No werewolves wanted to be in his new order?

  15. I know this is more general but I have two questions, that are bugging me and I thought perhaps you could answer them.

    1. I´m not that involved in the american TV and the popularity of specific characterization .. but why is the Delena-ship so well-liked in the fandom and especially by the reviewers? The first episode that I saw of TVD was in german TV and this was “Bloodline” (immediately became a Bonnie fan … and a Stefonnie-shipper :cry_) … I watched the episode with my neighbour and she had to explain to me what happened before and so I found about what Damon did the episodes before … and I immediately couldn´t understand why Elena was roadtripping with him and especially saving his life. Their scenes looked very contrived and I really hated Elena´s line about “Don´t forget that I saved your life” – I couldn´t believe it and I didn´t even saw on screen what he did to her friends and her ex-boyfriends sister … and now after three season it´s still the same and it´s getting worse. But everywhere I read that they want them to hook up (regardless that he is the brother of her former/actual boyfriend).
    I don´t understand it and I spoke to some german watchers in the specific thread in fanforum.
    There aren´t many Elena fans (I´m the only Bonnie-fan) … but they still ship Delena because of Damon. Do you think most of the Delena fans ship it because of Damon´s wants and needs?
    I do get the love for the bad boy … but this bad boy goes seriously over the limit.

    2. How did the fandom react to that Caroline/Damon fight … I know that Caroline is very popular character, but it reminded me of the time Bonnie set Damon on fire for a very good reason and Kat got hate mails/tweets and I thought Bonnie would be bashed until the end of time.
    I don´t want Candice to get any hate mails or something like that, but happened it?
    And what about Matt Davis and Alaric.

    • Sorry for the big bolded part I only wanted to highlight well-liked in the fandom and especially by the reviewers and also by the interviewers.

      I saw many interviews in the last weeks and they even asked other castmembers about that … I think they are overdoing it. But that´s only my opinion.

      • Yeah the Delena ship is all about Damon, how he feels, what he wants. I feel that way about Stelena too both of these ships seem to be about the fandoms love of the guys in them and not for Elena. I don’t know if anyone is a fan of Elena regardless of who she is with, they only love her with Damon or with Stefan. I love Bonnie but she doesn’t have to be with Jeremy or with anyone for me to love her.

    • Do you think most of the Delena fans ship it because of Damon´s wants and needs?

      Yes, definitely! I don’t think they care about Elena at all. It’s all about Damon. Plus, they genuinely like the D/E dynamic and think it’s ~sexy. Which is so weird, especially considering that Nina often plays Elena as afraid of Damon.

      a Stefonnie-shipper :cry

      Oh, another former Stefonnie shipper? *cries with you*

      You are from Germany? I’m from Germany too. 🙂

      • Oh, another former Stefonnie shipper? *cries with you*

        *gives you a handkerchief* Seriously … they could work if the show would be built in my head.

        You are from Germany? I’m from Germany too. 🙂

        Cool! Which part of Germany? … I´m from thuringia (it´s akward to write in another language when you know the other speaks your language 😀 )

        • Like Olu wrote, they were never really given the chance to be friends.

          I’m from NRW. I’d never thought I’d meet a fellow German TVD fan on here. 😀

          • I agree. First they took my Matt/Bonnie pairing away in favor of Caroline/Matt and in season two they destroyed my last hope for Stefonnie friendship.
            This show hates me. 😥

            Wunderbar :P! I also never expected that … because here we are such a small group. I found some german fans on fanforum … but they are also not that excited about the new season.The only character that they still love is probably Caroline.

    • Yep, they ship it because of Damon’s wants and needs. I’ve seen many turn on her whenever she did anything to hurt his feelings. Like in episode 3 of last season when it turned out she had used him, and she told him he’d lost her forever. They just want Damon to be happy. And some of the Stelena fans just want Stefan to be happy because apparently a lot of them were slut-shaming Elena after last episode (for laughing with Damon, I guess).

      Some people seemed to hate it, but the majority seemed to be okay with it. I don’t see a whole lot of people having to defend Caroline. But I did see, in response to someone calling the Fandom out over their hypocrisy when it comes to Caroline beating Damon up and Bonnie doing it, someone replied that Caroline did it to protect her father while Bonnie did it for no reason. It’s so damn stupid, I wanted to laugh. But I replied and said I guess it doesn’t count unless you’re doing it for people you know. It doesn’t count when you just want to keep people you don’t even know safe.

    • I’m pretty sure she either said that or something very close to that because I nearly shoved my laptop off my bed, my anger was so intense.

      • Olu, when Katherine opened her mouth and said that I was like “Are you fucking kidding me?”

        They seriously are doing this on purpose. I have no doubt.

        • It feels like it. It’s not like they are unaware that fans have a problem with witches dying all the time or the way characters talk about magic and abuse it at the same time. They can’t be that blind.

    • I only heard Katherine say “I saved you from the hi(e)ll to the high voodoo priester”
      Don´t know about Gloria … she talked with Klaus about her juju or something like that.

      • Yeah she told Klaus he was messing with her Juju and then she told Stefan she was into Old School Voodoo. They are opening up a whole new can of worms if they are talking about Voodoo. That’s “Black Magic” Meaning Black people perform it. And not all of it is the same or is to be regarded as the same.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-American_religion

        If only this were a different show run by different people. People who cared. smh

  16. Wow. I am not here for most of one day and you guys made it well past 200 comments. LOL. I will have to set aside a good portion of my day tomorrow to read all the new comments here and in the preview post

    IF YOU ARE EASILY GROSSED OUT DON’T READ FURTHER.

    As I was getting ready to bed today, I remembered an old meta theory that my former fandom friend and I had. It is super long and I wont bore you with the details. Plus, finding the details of it in the depths of my disorganized computer will be a pain but if you guys really want it I will try to find it. Anyway, it boiled down to Elena and Katherine being like the Salvatores’ moms. One being the giving/nurturing mom and the other being the depriving/abusive(?) mom. Some of the scenes in this ep reminded me of that. A lot of what happened in Mystic Falls was about Caroline and her father – his lack of acceptance and how he can’t change her. But it was also about Damon and Elena. It was about *her* acceptance or lack thereof w/r/t Damon. Right before the final Caroline/Bill encounter, Caroline had a scene with Elena where it became clear that it doesn’t matter what Damon does as far as Elena is concerned. There was also the earlier scene of Caroline and Elena where Caroline told Elena that if her own father can’t change her, Elena is not changing Damon. Elena also told Damon that she wants him to be in control just like Bill tried to get Caroline to be in control in the last ep. Also, all that LGBTQ themed language that was used for Caroline in the last ep was used for Damon as well in this ep

    Do you guys think that Bill/Caroline and Elena/Damon were paralleled in this ep? If so, was it on purpose and why?

    • I think the stories were linked, but only because the producers wanted to make a comment about Damon and how Damon isn’t going to change for her, even though last season part of his angst was that he couldn’t be what she wanted him to be but it seemed like he wanted to. In this episode he seems super proud of being an inconsiderate jackass and he ain’t changing for nobody. Only it’s stupid because it’s not like Elena’s ever been militant about him changing.

      • Somehow, in his head, he thinks he is being controlled by her. It is weird. In his head, he has given her all this power that she doesn’t have. You know what else is weird? Linking Caroline and Damon now. In the beginning of the series, I kinda thought they were the same type of person especially with their inferiority complexes and their unmet (according to them) desire to be loved. I stopped thinking that a while ago. Is the show now saying that they are versions of each other but that Caroline is a much milder version?? Or maybe they are saying that Damon and Caroline are on parallel journeys??

        • It’s so hard for me to even build up an interest in looking deeper into how Damon acted this episode, because I feel it was so two-dimensional. There was absolutely no reason for him to act the way he did. He literally went from 0 to 60. It’s like none of the things he went through in season 2 mattered. He chewed on Bill and told Elena he’s not Stefan, but the thing is that Stefan’s doing worse to people right now so how does that make any sense? The writers didn’t do it to comment on or build Damon’s character, they just wanted to throw the fact that he’s a monster in Elena’s face (even though they’ve done it in subtler ways) so that Elena could question her taste.

          • Yeah, waaay too much happened waaay too fast in this ep when it comes to Delena. That is like the show’s motto for everything though – way too much, way too fast

            In general though, I used to see parallels between the following pairs as far as the issues they deal with internally maybe??? ( I am not sure if I am wording that right. It is a half formed idea)

            Elena/Caroline = Stefan/Damon = Matt/Tyler

            However, now it seems to me that it is the following

            Bonnie/Caroline = Stefan/Damon = Tyler/Matt

            Elena=Jeremy

            Honestly, I am not too clear on why I have these associations in my head. I have this vague sense that it has something to with how they deal with issues of control and how they form their identities.

            It makes a strange sort of sense that Elena would be cooking with Damon when it has been established that cooking is a Damon thing and that Jeremy would be researching magic with Bonnie when magic is a Bonnie thing. Also, in the same ep, both Elena and Jeremy had people demanding personal things from them (Anna and Damon)

            Aaaaaaah! a;ldfjdlajhflshgoewitupo. I need to stop thinking about this show.

            • Ok, so I have this vague sense that Elena and Jeremy are amorphous. That is why the ghost!gfs storyline is kinda working for me. All his gfs represent 3 diff identities that he tried to adopt.

              • What’s the personality he’s trying to adopt with Bonnie? I don’t think he tried to adopt a personality with either Anna or Vicky (or Bonnie). He fell into a certain way of life after his parent’s death which matched Vicky’s, and he tried to become what Anna was after she died, but I don’t think he’s ever tried to change his personality.

                • Well, Idk if he adopted a personality *for* Bonnie. I think these relationships coincide with different stages in his life maybe. Or maybe they represent the 3 diff ways he tried to cope with his grief. So it is basically what you just said about him falling into a certain way of life when he was with Vicky. I think he keeps falling or going for a diff way of life. Idk what he is now. Maybe he is trying to be super responsible (drugs aside) like Bonnie is. I mean, he got a job even. I can’t imagine Jeremy with a job when he was with Vicky or Anna. That doesn’t mean he became that way *for* Bonnie. He was probably headed this way or wanted to be this way and hooked up with a girl who is also that way. That is why I am thinking that his 3 gfs represent diff identities for him. Meh, it is probably just something that is happening in my head and I am explaining it badly. Basically, it seems to me that Jeremy keeps changing his approach w/r/t getting over his grief or wtvr. Elena seems static though.

                  Random thoughts

                  • It is kind of like how he was already thinking of becoming vampire when he hooked up with Anna. He didn’t try to become a vampire just because of Anna or because she died. That desire was there before. In the same way, I don’t think he has become anything *for* Bonnie. Whatever his new strategy is to make life more bearable, he didn’t adopt it because of Bonnie. He hooked up with Bonnie because he adopted a new strategy.

                    Yes, I am aware that I am making up the show almost wholesale in my head

                    • Lmao.

                      I think we can definitely say he wanted to become a vamp for someone. He wanted to do it for Vicky and saw Anna as his ticket. See how once he found out she was dead instead of missing, the thought went away until he figured he could use vampirysm to escape getting hurt.

                  • I definitely think the relationships coincide with different stages of his life. They’ve gotten healthier and healthier. He started being more take charge and that led him to Bonnie (by deciding to take part in the Katherine thing whereas before he might’ve chosen to get high and wallow). I think he’s learning a less self-destructive way to deal with grief. There’s no where to go but up once you’ve attempted to take your life because of grief. Unlike Damon who is still dealing with rejection in the same.exact.way.

  17. The thought just occurred to me that if they really cared about Elena/Katherine, this ep could be a good setup for that. Katherine basically interacted with all of the important people in Elena’s life with the exception of Caroline (Jeremy offscreen). Bonnie and Jeremy couldn’t tell the difference. The Bonnie/Katherine scene reminded me so much of their scene in The Return. There too Bonnie thought she was confiding something to Elena but the show found a way for her figure out it wasn’t Elena. This time, the story was that she couldn’t tell. Maybe those choices were deliberate. Damon couldn’t tell either before Katherine revealed herself. Furthermore, he actually left with Katherine without even knowing where she was going. He did what she asked even though he didn’t do what Elena asked earlier. Idk. It might be cool if Katherine was a real existential threat to Elena. Like she could make Elena irrelevant if she really wanted to. And this presented an internal as well as an external crisis for Elena.

    • : (

      Why don’t we write the show? It makes me so sad when I read theories and ideas, the sensible ones at least, because this show could be so much better than what it and has all this potential and all of it is wasted because of laziness that doesn’t even have to do with not having access to the story (because if we can think about it and formulate these stories/theories/ideas then it’s there), but is about a careless disregard for the characters, the plot, and actually making an attempt to say something. Anything. It just makes me so sad sometimes. Mostly because I’m still watching the show.

      • Lol. I think if I became a writer, I would shoot myself before too long. Obsessiveness+perfectionism+tons of criticism from consumers=self destruction.

        Speaking of story ideas, why was there no lasting effect from Alaric being possessed by Klaus? Isn’t that weird? Klaus left nothing of himself behind? I thought that might happen because of all the emphasis on all that blood Maddox pumped into Alaric. Unlike, Emily’s possession of Bonnie, there was a physical aspect to this possession. There could have been an organic storyline for Alaric right there. There was no need to kill off Jenna and UJ to give Alaric their storylines.

      • When she was meeting with Bonnie she said that she just saw Jeremy and that he told her that Bonnie still had the necklace. From her outfit, we know that she had been watching Elena and therefore, saw that Elena wasn’t wearing the necklace. She must have done some more detective work which led her to Jeremy who led her to Bonnie.

        Katherine is Nancy Drew

        • Oh ok. I forgot about that. And seeing this clips, it’s ridiculous that Bonnie didn’t know it was Katherine. I had thought it was because she just dropped the necklace in her hand but nope. She handed it to her. Even if they somehow didn’t touch, Bonnie should’ve gotten something because the first time she felt Stefan was a vamp, it’s because he touched the note she was holding.

          But maybe it has no effect once Bonnie’s already touched the vamp? Because Damon’s touched her (Plan B) and she’s hugged Caroline and she never weirded out. Even though I always thought it would make sense for there to be some kind of tingling every time she touches a vamp.

          • I wonder if that was an error on the part of the actors (and the director). Maybe they weren’t supposed to touch. Even if Bonnie doesn’t get a weird vibe from Katherine, shouldn’t she be able to tell it is not Elena? I mean, when she brushed past Mason, she got some pretty vivid visions. Maybe they are trying to tell us that Elena’s resurrection changed how she feels to Bonnie. Maybe she feels like death just like Katherine feels like death. Oh who knows with this show?

            • She got a vision when she brushed past Mason and she said that was something she couldn’t control: she doesn’t get to ask questions. If she can’t feel a vamp after the initial touch, and the show hasn’t established that she can since Damon’s touched and she’s touched Caroline and she hasn’t mentioned getting any vibes from them, then I can buy that she would initially know that was Katherine. Especially since she had no reason to believe Katherine would come back to Mystic Falls, and I can just see Damon not bothering to share with anyone that Katherine had been in contact with him.

  18. Some people on LJ are pissed at Alaric because of his meeting with Carol and Liz. It is because he made it seem like it is Human vs. Supernatural and not Good vs. Bad or an anti-Damon thing. In their minds, he was lumping Bonnie, Tyler and Caroline in with Damon. What do you guys think? Oh and they were pissed that he was telling these women how to do their jobs.

    • You don’t need to be a genius to know he wasn’t talking about Tyler/Bonnie/Caroline. And so what if it was? Up to now, Bonnie has been the only one thinking of the interest of the mortals. I mean you have Elena and Damon (and Alaric) who want to bring a serial killer back to town. It would be nice to have an actual mortal look out for the interests of the mortals too. I wondered what they thought of Damon wanting to kill Tyler and all werewolves and lumping all of them into one category.

      And what’s wrong with him telling Liz/Caroline how to do their jobs? They HAVEN’T been doing their jobs and on that front they should be more upset with the writers for having it so another man is the one who’s going to get things done on the Council. I mean first there was Richard Lockwood, then UJ, Damon, now Alaric. And through it all Liz and Carol have had the least insight into what’s really been going on.

  19. You don’t need to be a genius to know he wasn’t talking about Tyler/Bonnie/Caroline. And so what if it was?

    I didn’t really get their point here. I think it is because Alaric got this epiphany because Damon victimized him so they think it was in poor taste for him to lump these other people who were also Damon’s victims into the same category. If Damon is the catalyst to all this, then he should be sensitive to Damon’s other victims and not equate them with Damon like he did when he said something like, “Some of them might be our family or friends but they are still supernatural. They don’t follow our rules or our laws. They look after themselves” He referred to Caroline and Tyler right before this. I actually don’t care though because, like you, I want the humans in the town to have an advocate. However, I wish it was Jenna or UJ. Alaric in this role seems forced. There were so many things that should have set him off before this like Andie or finding Stefan’s victims but he only takes an active role when it affects him personally. I can’t believe he had no idea that Damon was hurting people before this. I can buy him wanting to make Damon’s life miserable because of their own personal conflict or to protect Elena. This need to protect other people doesn’t mesh with my view of Alaric.

    on that front they should be more upset with the writers for having it so another man is the one who’s going to get things done on the Council. I mean first there was Richard Lockwood, then UJ, Damon, now Alaric. And through it all Liz and Carol have had the least insight into what’s really been going on.

    Yes. I think that is what they are upset about.. It is not so much that it is Alaric but that it is another man being presented as the competent one over the female Sheriff and the female Mayor.

    I noticed that too but I feel like I am overly sensitive about any gender stuff on this show now. I wanted to see if others saw it too. I mean, Idk if Rebekah’s comments about women’s fashion is actually misogynistic but I reacted to them as if they were. I don’t think that is right though because she is from the 20s after all.

    Btw, I think (maybe??) the show has proven my theory about the Council being a Boy’s Club wrong in the last ep. When Liz was comforting Caroline after the aversion therapy torture, she said something like, “Honey your dad…all our families. We have beliefs that have been passed down through generations. We were taught never to stray from them.” So it looks like Liz is also from a Founding Family and was raised in the ways of the Council.

    • Alaric in this role seems forced. There were so many things that should have set him off before this like Andie or finding Stefan’s victims but he only takes an active role when it affects him personally.

      Absolutely. I had this discussion with my Fandom friend, but basically all of the “You go boy/girl” moments in this episode should have happened before many times over: Elena firmly telling Damon he can’t do this type of stuff, Caroline beating him up, Alaric telling him off, the Council getting back to protecting humans, all of this should have happened already, especially since Liz found out the truth about Damon and Stefan. Instead she’s helping Elena and Damon bring the out of control vampire back into the town she’s supposed to protect. So while the moments were nice, they were only nice because they made sense, but once you think about all the other instances where they should have had these reactions, the moment doesn’t look as great anymore.

      I mean, Idk if Rebekah’s comments about women’s fashion is actually misogynistic but I reacted to them as if they were. I don’t think that is right though because she is from the 20s after all.

      I saw it as mysogynistic. So she was wearing pants in the 20s to fight for women’s rights and she turns around and slams them for not dressing the way she thinks they should? Sounds kind of familiar. I didn’t excuse her being from the 20s because she’s from waaaayyyy before the 20s, so she’s seen women’s fashions change many times. Plus she’s a vampire who laughs at other people’s distress and mental torture. And she’s scandalized by short skirts? Lol.

      “Honey your dad…all our families. We have beliefs that have been passed down through generations. We were taught never to stray from them.” So it looks like Liz is also from a Founding Family and was raised in the ways of the Council.

      I noticed that too. What Founding family is Liz from?! Geez this show is ridiculous. I feel that’s a total retcon. Is Liz supposed to be a Fell? Because I find that hard to believe. For Liz to be from a Founding family, they need to introduce another family in there. Ugh. That’s like Jenna saying her sister (a Sommers) used to tell her vampire stories. How?

      • What if Liz maiden’s name is Fell? Maybe Logan was her cousin or some distant relative. Maybe there is a reason that they focused on Damon picking up the chilli/potluck label with the name Fell on it. Maybe Logan was the official representative or leader of the Fells in the Council and Liz was chosen to be the Forbes’ representative after her marriage to Bill because of her position in law enforcement. It seems to me that she can’t be a Gilbert, Lockwood or Salvatore because someone would have said something by now. There have been members of all those families in the show for a solid 2 seasons now. Logan was such a short lived character that it is possible that her connection to him hasn’t been mentioned yet. The other option is that there are more Founding Families. Maybe minor ones??

        Just throwing ideas out there

        Btw, remember when season one Elena thought it was understandable but *twisted* that Damon thought he was doing what he was doing out of love? And do you guys remember that Stefan responded with something like, there are other ways of getting what you want. Damon didn’t have to kill people? LOL. Remember when Stefan used to go on and on about Damon’s disregard for human life?

          • LOL. Remember when Stefan used to go on and on about Damon’s disregard for human life?

            It’s funny because it turns out that Stefan has less regard for human life than Damon does. And actually makes the extent of his lies kinda brilliant.

            Can’t watch the video because i’m at work, but this is the one where he talks about there being other ways, right? I figure the irony fits in because Stefan currently has no regard for human life (though he does? in a strange way understand that the lives he has taken are important, but he doesn’t care because he can use his “love” and “protectiveness” to justify it…), but who even knows what Stefan wants from this other than…protecting Elena…which seems to be his intent now. Sometimes this show just confuses me.

            • Damon justified what he was doing because he was doing it for Katherine. Now Stefan is killing people because he wants to protect Delena. The context is different but, essentially, they both *murdered* people for Lurve. As for the disregard for human life, he did eventually admit to Stefan that he could feel guilt if he let himself so it is not like he had complete disregard. The show did not play Damon’s quest as being too ~tragic~ because Katherine is “evil”. Stefan’s rampage is ~tragic~ because Elena is “good”

        • I feel like if Liz was a Fell, that would have been mentioned already. But it might, idk. When Damon picked up the Fell Placard, all I could think was that Tobias Fell was coming soon.

          Lol @ Stefan. Do you mind if I quote you on tumblr?

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