The Season 3 Premier

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51 thoughts on “The Season 3 Premier

  1. Yay for weekly podcasts!

    This ep was hilarious. The most hilarious thing? “He feeds so hard that he blacks out, then he feels remorse and puts the bodies back together”. LOL, what? The show runners are tripping over themselves to be shocking and edgy. Paul Wesley is much better at playing a scary dude than Ian Somerhalder and Joseph Morgan, though. Ugh, especially Klaus is just lame, lame, lame.

    The show should give up the pretense that Elena is the protagonist. It’s obviously Damon.

    (Oh, and I called Andie’s death. Well, I thought she would be the first on-screen murder of Stefan. She ended up being the third. And I knew Damon would be all emo about it. Because he is the good brother now. Oh, show!)

    • ? “He feeds so hard that he blacks out, then he feels remorse and puts the bodies back together”. LOL, what?

      Reading it now makes me laugh out loud. It’s horrible.

    • Ugh, especially Klaus is just lame, lame, lame.

      Having Stefan do all the killings is not helping Klaus’ image. Just in case the producers don’t realize.

      The show should give up the pretense that Elena is the protagonist. It’s obviously Damon.

      Yes, and I’ll bring that up on the recoding.

  2. The show should give up the pretense that Elena is the protagonist. It’s obviously Damon.

    ikr! Who do they think they are fooling?

    I laughed at inappropriate times during the first ep but Andie’s death made me physically nauseous.

    “He feeds so hard that he blacks out, then he feels remorse and puts the bodies back together”

    I didn’t laugh or get shocked when Damon said this. My brain could not compute this. WTH?! Who does this? Who comes up with this stuff? Besides, I could believe that season one Stefan during the blood arc could/would do something like this but not this cold/in control Stefan. He is not in a panic. He is not out of it. Why would he frantically try to put the bodies back together? I suppose they could be saying that Stefan is following his old MO to convince Klaus that he is really in Ripper mode.

    • Andie’s death made me physically nauseous.

      Yes, me too. Her death and also the interaction between her and Damon earlier on in the ep. The way the show framed the latter was also very disturbing.

      I didn’t laugh or get shocked when Damon said this. My brain could not compute this. WTH?! Who does this? Who comes up with this stuff?

      I found it hilarious in the sense of “omg, this is ridiculously over the top”. Yeah, who comes up with this kind of stuff?

      • Someone at TWOP said that the writers made Damon say that about Stefan’s kills to show that he still has good in him when he is Ripper mode. I guess because he displays some guilt. Hahahaha! Dying of laughter

        • What do you mean by the above statement, Emily?

          Imo the show was trying to present their interaction as “Oh look, Damon and Andie are in a healthy relationship now because Damon gets the champagne himself and Andie is able to say “I’m not your slave” – it’s totally okay now, Damon has grown so much.” At least that is how I felt the show runners wanted me to see their scenes. And that is so messed up.

          • I think I worded that wrong. Because I don’t think “healthy” is actually the right word here. Maybe “functional”? Idk, it’s hard to describe. What I mean is that we were supposed to see it as OK.

      • This whole Ripper storyline would have made more sense if it had happened in the beginning of season two. Or if the blood arc had happened in season 2 or if they focused on Stefan’s blood issues more in season 2. Basically, if there was more build up leading to this in some way. I had to watch scenes from the blood arc to understand that the OTT way that Stefan deals with bodies fits in with who he is. Unfortunately, I still don’t care. I have become so disconnected from the character’s struggles. Either I have a short attention span or the writers do a shit job of keeping the momentum for a character going. Probably both

        • Another possible reason I am not interested is that – In the first season, it seemed like the storyline grew organically from what came before. This time, it seems forced. Some new character I don’t even know is *forcing* Stefan to do it. In season one, all the players were characters I already knew for quiet some time. Perhaps, I would be interested in the storyline if Klaus had been introduced earlier in season 2.

  3. <iIWe don't know if Damon had stopped compelling Andi. We don't know, if he had removed all his compulsions, why she chose to stay with the man who took away her free will. We'll never know, because Andi was not a character, she was a toy. She was there solely as a catalyst for various woobie Damon moments.

    The above is an excerpt from a post on TWOP. Idk if I can keep watching TVD. That was really bad – like stomach turning bad. Do you guys see it this way? First, do you guys see it as rape? Second, do you guys think that Stefan targeted Andi because she was Damon’s toy? Third, if you guys said yes to the first two questions, do you guys think that the show’s purpose was to make us feel sorry for Damon because Damon is now convinced that Stefan is bad because Stefan targeted someone close to him? Fourth, if so, how do you guys feel about the show using a rape victim in a woobie scenario where normally lovers and friends are used? Fifth, if you answered yes to 2-3 of the above questions, how can you keep watching the show? Because I gotta tell you, idk if I can. I want to but I think my body will rebel at the very sight of TVD now. That is how I feel about it now anyway. Maybe I will change my mind later. This is coming from a person who watched that old HBO prison drama Oz from start to finish. Believe me, there was a lot of rape in that show. But this show is grosser. In Oz, rape was acknowledged as such within the show even if the rapist was not punished. They just presented it for what it was – no woobie rapist moments. Also, the rape victim’s POV was shown – what they were feeling, what they were going through, how they coped etc etc.

    • I have to answer positively to all the questions you posed. The reason I still choose to watch is to see how bad it gets and to see how bad fandoms reaction to it is. I guess that most of fandom reacts like the frog in the pot, but I don’t know how anyone can apologist for what goes on in this show. it’s a hot mess and sometimes I look around and thing “Why are only 3 people noticing this horror on the tv.”

      I also watch for Kat Graham … I kinda want her to leave so that I can stop watching this show …

      I do wonder how some of this stuff gets past the censors.

    • I need to watch the episode a second time, but I can answer some of the questions. Yes, I do see it as rape. I’d bet anything that Damon was still compelling Andie. He might not have been throwing her on the ground in this episode or during the summer, but she was still with him against her will. I’ll go into this more on the podcast, but I feel this whole think was a cheap manipulation.

      And Stefan killing Andie was a cop-out on the producers’ part. Like you said, family and friends are usually used in those situations. I feel the show is basic for using Andie.

      I totally understand being able to stomach Oz but not this. It’s all about how the shows present it.

      • When I saw Andie on the episode I didn’t understand. And I thought it was disgusting after what they did to her the last time we saw her. How do you come back from that? After seeing Damon run her out of the house in her underwear crying!

        I mean HOW! HOW IS SHE IN THIS EPISODE? HOW IS DAMON TOUCHING HER AND TALKING TO HER AND KISSING HER! WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS!?

      • The fact that they suddenly changed their relationship dynamic is manipulative. They only did it to show us sad panda!Damon again. As if, I am supposed to feel sorry for him because his brother killed his (former?) rape victim. Also, isn’t it weird that the worst thing Stefan could think of doing to Damon, to drive his point home, was to coldly kill Damon’s (former?) rape victim? As if there is a profound bond between rape victims and their rapists. If they just wanted to show Stefan heartlessly murdering someone (without feeding), they could have used any extra. They chose Andie specifically.

  4. I’ve been listening to your podcast all summer there great. I finally found people who get how bad this show is. I hate it so much but can’t stop watching mostly because as much as I hate this show I love Bonnie Bennett more. Sometimes I wish Bonnie would have died killing Klaus so I can stop watching.

    The good thing about the premiere is that it was really funny I don’t know if it was supposed to be but it was.

    I don’t take most of these characters seriously especially the main three they are the worst if they didn’t have this love story between the three of them the show would be better.

    Why are Matt and Tyler hanging at the Salvatore house? do they know that it’s the house were they’re family members were killed.

    • Hi! Thanks for listening, and I’m glad you like it because so often is sounds like I hate everything about the show. But so many aspects of it suck!

      Don’t you love how Matt and Tyler didn’t share a scene?

    • Why are Matt and Tyler hanging at the Salvatore house? do they know that it’s the house were they’re family members were killed.

      terrific question is terrific!

      Matt nor Tyler knows that their family members were killed in that house. I feel like Elena’s friends and the people who know her (and some who don’t) must pay a blood/mortality tithe to be near her and her vampires. Everyone in the group has lost someone in their family/friend. Jeremy is the closest to her so he’s lost the most.

  5. My Elena speculation is endless because I just can’t figure her out and she is one of the leads.

    After reflecting on Stelena’s last scene, Delena’s scene in then finale and the last Katherine/Elena scene, I am wondering if she is even more of a device to manipulate fandom than I previously thought. Maybe she is not so much a device to push forward the Salvatores’ story but a device to manipulate our affections.

    “I like you now just the way you are” is something I would imagine a Damon stan saying. Wasn’t that their gripe most of last season? Elena wants to change Damon. Damon needs someone who accepts him. I hate that Damon feels like he needs to change for Elena. I love Damon just the way he is etc etc.

    Now they have Elena saying that Stefan will be alright and to hold on to their love. Doesn’t that seem like something a Stefan stan would say?

    Katherine telling Elena that it is ok to love both brothers made no sense if you look at Katherine’s previous actions. But if we think of it as the writers’ way of telling *us* to love both brothers, maybe it makes more sense??

    • You’re so right!!!!

      On the Katherine point, I’d say it’s the producers trying to tell us that it won’t be a bad thing if Elena loves them both. Now you might ask why they’d use Katherine to tell us since she’s supposed to be a biatch. Well Fandom loves her. She doesn’t get any of the hate Bonnie does.

  6. http://12-12-12.livejournal.com/133967.html#cutid1

    This is my first time adding a link so I hope it works. This person wrote a lot about all the things that bothered me about Stefan/Elena/Damon + Andie in this episode. But I don’t share her Matt hate. I recognize his faults but he doesn’t irritate me like he does her.

    The most interesting part is when she compares Stefan and Katherine. I was going to copy and paste some bits here but I am not sure if that is proper online etiquette.

    • Thanks for brining this over! I just read it and the Matt hate leaves me at a loss (well not a total loss because I get some of it. It just seems so ott. I’ve read some of her other stuff). I liked what she had to say on Stefan/Elena/Damon and Andie. *Sigh.*

      • From what she has told me, Matt is a tv trope that is supposed to tell us how awesome Elena is – the guy who is forever pining over the super special lead female and treats all the other women he dates crappily. She sees a Madonna/Whore theme in a lot of these types of shows. She thinks it is inherently sexist. The Matt type character, according to her, is a device used to prioritize one female character over another – to create a hierarchy of female characters. I think. She also thinks that Elena/Katherine is part of this Madonna/Whore thing. I am horrible at repeating some of these meta theories. I obviously need more practice/education on this kind of thing. Also, I can’t tell because I haven’t watched too many of these kinds of shows. My online bff wrote something similar about Elena/Katherine actually. I think she saw it as a metaphor of Southern White Womanhood vs. Southern Black Womanhood. I think they are both kinda saying the same thing but with diff words.

        Here is an excerpt from her post about it from TWOP. The post is actually about Damon/Katherine/Stefan/Elena. She didn’t write too much about it on TWOP and this was a while back so I am not sure how much sense it will make.

        [This sort of seems far a-field, but please bear with me 😛 — there’s this theory about Southern womanhood that the reason so much “chivalry” and such an OTT celebration of chaste, angelic *white* womanhood was possible (in the ante-bellum South) is because there was meanwhile a concurrent idea of *black* womanhood that was about sexuality and primal/earthy depravity and the way black women were treated was the opposite of coddled/chivalry. I think that without someone being cast down as “devilish” then nobody could be elevated up to “angelic.” I think that what Katherine did was basically cast Stefan in the role of “white womanhood” and Damon in the role of “black womanhood” in her own little psychodrama. And I think Elena/Katherine are also two sides of that coin. I don’t think it’s based on any inherent characteristic of anybody — I mean, that becomes kind of obvious in the Elena/Katherine case, because one of them *can’t* be inherently better than the other, since they are literally doubles. Anyway, so I think the reason Stefan had the opportunity to have “pure” love toward Katherine, why he could be lied to/protected, is because meanwhile Damon was giving Katherine the other kind of love and was meanwhile seeing the absolute worst she had to offer. But I think that in the end, the fact that Stefan understands that Katherine was still abusive and cruel toward him actually says something about the inherent cruelty of putting anyone into either side of the “goodness/badness” looking glass. Well anyway, does that make any sense? Maybe not, I feel like it doesn’t. LOL..

        I think maybe that has to do with how much of a separation you see between Elena and Katherine. To me, being with Elena is a version of being with Katherine. Because Elena and Katherine are literally identical to each other — not just physically, but at their core.

        I just wanted to clarify that I don’t think Stefan is in love with Katherine or wants to engage with Katherine. I think he definitely *doesn’t*, and he is so loathe to engage with her that he’s even willing to throw Damon at her to neutralize her/shield himself and Elena from her (though I don’t think he likes doing that, either).

        I do think though, that maybe his behavior is more in response/reaction to Katherine than it seems to be, because meanwhile he’s pledging his eternal love to her literal double and basically living out the same sweet love fantasy with Elena that he would have lived out with Katherine if the puppy love thing had worked out.

        Also, I think it’s significant that Stefan tried to die for Elena. I mean, this is exactly the path that Damon took with Katherine, right? And for the identical girl?

        Or maybe I’m just the only one who has trouble differentiating between Elena/Katherine and even Stefan/Damon, lol. ]

        Here is a part one of the many chats we had about Elena in June after the finale. It started out about how the show objectified Bonnie and fandom’s reaction (both the outcry and the defence) but then we started talking about Elena. Both of us were super disturbed by that horrible line that Elena said to Damon in the finale. I am too tired to edit so this is going to be a long ass post with lots of typos and inappropriate spacing because like most of our chats it took place late at night. We are a couple of insomniacs

        Her: I actually think the total lack of outcry/interest in Elena is weirder than people feeling a lot of confused/upset/angry feelings w/r/t Bonnie. I think a lot of things are going on with ppl’s responses to Bonnie, but in the end they’re basically just responses to seeing her be objectified
        so some people are like–it’s OK she’s being objectified b/c she’s “different” (black, secondary character, witch, wtvr)
        other people are getting upset, like–it’s NOT OK she’s being objectified, and it shows the show as a whole is….whatever someone thinks

        me: I actually understand why people don’t have an outcry w/r/t Elena. I would be more interested in Bonnie and Caroline (if not for the stupid end to the rape SL) no matter who played them

        Her: what I think is strange is that Elena is also being objectified, basically to the same extent that Bonnie is, but nobody gives a shit.

        me: Elena has been a romance prop from the VERY beginning
        Bonnie at least was given a potential for being a strong female character in the beginning

        Her: Elena has the potential too. Which is another reason I think Katherine is important. I don’t think it’s any more acceptable that Elena is a sexual object than it is acceptable that Bonnie is a “magical negro”
        I think that is definitely sexism and racism at play.
        and you know I also think that the sexism at play w/r/t Elena being a sex object is also actually racism. It’s not a mistake that she’s white.
        which, again, would be interesting for them to tackle
        this is a show that deals with the Civil War for god’s sake
        the sexual politics of race in antebellum South?
        are they kidding, they’re not going to deal with that?!

        me: Explain please
        How is Elena a victim of racism because she is white?

        Her: she’s not a victim of racism b/c she’s white, she is occupying a position of “Southern white womanhood”

        Her: I think Elena is being “characterized” as the ideal southern white womanhood ideal: WHITE, asexual (she’s never sexually aggressive anymore AT ALL), kindly, domestic (she now owns the guy’s house LITERALLY). She’s given less and less agency or even personality. All she exists as now is a paragon of Southern “womanhood.” And every man in the vicinity seems to all in love with her. She’s a particular sort of sexual object.
        part of the description of the type of sexual object that she is, requires her to be white

        me: oic

        Her: actually, you know how when Kanye West came out with his most recent album and he had the painting of him fucking a white woman/pheonix on the cover

        me: gross

        Her: and everyone was like, what is up with the fetishization of white women in rap, etc

        me: go on

        Her: that is what is going on
        I mean, it’s “white woman as sex object/trophy”
        it’s not just about the color of the woman’s skin, it’s about what that means socially and the “traits” that (stereotypically) are supposed to go with it
        part of that is being “chaste” and “virtuous” and “sweet”

        me: Even without this theory, I think the way Elena is written is genuinely scary.

        Her: I think so, too. And I think it’s horrifying that she is basically being written as though seriously this were 1840 and nobody notices/cares
        and it’s even sadder that meanwhile she’s supposedly contrasted with this paragon of AGENCY, Katherine….except oops! Katherine is just being controlled by other men’s desires (and her desires for them), too.

        me: The way that Elena is “good” but Katherine is “EVIL” but at the same time Damon is “sorta okay” is kind of disturbing
        I don’t understand what makes Elena “good” actually
        What is going to be sadder is when they introduced Original Petrova, I am sure she is going to be simply a sacrifice

        Her: I cannot even tell you the zillions of issues I have with Damon. But one HUGE one I have is the allegiance shift we’re supposed to cheer (from Katherine to Elena). What horrifies me about his character is that it’s like–he knew better as a human kid in 1864! And now our modern world is teaching him to be bigoted and give in to public “sanctioned” violence in order to be a part of society. (Alta, I think this is a hold over from when we were looking at the different supernatural creatures on the show as metaphor for races. And we thought we were supposed to see humans, vampires, werewolves, etc as essentially equal. All these groups have done great violence in the show. So online bff was like what makes humans better than vampires)

        me: Another female body used up to get a man power
        What would be really cool is if the curse was Original Petrova’s doing somehow

        Her
        : so so SOOOO many things bother me. Painting a woman’s body as but an object that gets all its worth from its usefulness to men and it’s WAY of being useful to men (Bonnie is worth less than Elena because her way of being useful is through work whereas Elena’s is through sex/romance/family/procreation — also seriously out of the antebellum South btw) is just ONE issue I’m having

        me: Like Original Petrova and Original Petrova’s Magical Negro did this because of (insert reason here)

        Her: what I think is even more disturbing is that what do you bet that the ways of being useful to men are going to be painted as: mother (Original Petrova), wife (Elena), worker/slave (Bonnie)
        and what do you bet that we’re going to be encouraged to CHEER those roles
        and say how empowering they are

        me: Yep. I am pretty sure that is what is going to happen
        At this point, I am like “why is Elena the lead”?
        It would make sense to have Caroline as the lead if they must have a white girl

        Her: but Caroline is/was ambitious

        me: yep
        and that is why it would make sense to me and not them
        She is also a vampire
        will fit in with the title of the show

        Her: I mean whatever. Tbh, the thing that convinces me much more that the nail is in the coffin in terms of how the women are going to be painted on this show is Damon’s SL. But it disturbs me most in terms of the fandom that Elena gets zero attention.

        me: I think some people in the fandom reacted after that gross line in the finale
        I def reacted and I didn’t really care about Elena before.

        Her: yeah, i mean, I see how that line could trigger stuff. That whole episode was so horrifying to me. But everywhere, on all the recaps, everyone is like “oh it was so good”
        it’s like nobody but me/us sees a difference in the SLs in the last 2 eps.
        it’s like nobody is noticing that so many SLs were just thrown aside, that none of the characters arced
        or, they realized that this character’s arc wasn’t satisfactory or that character’s wasn’t.
        But nobody is saying that there were no character arcs, just beginnings and endings, that the characters are incoherent….
        could people have really liked those last two eps!

        me: I noticed Caroline’s lack of story arc first and then Bonnie and then Stefan
        The fact that Bonnie’s SL had like ZERO middle is sooo obvious that I have real trouble understanding how other people don’t see it.
        There was no middle in the Bonnie/Martins arc
        NONE
        how is that not obvious

        Her: I think people are seeing each individual problem, because fans of that character will bring it up…..Idk, this show is just a pile of chaos.

        • I definitely see the Madonna/Whore complex when it comes to Elena/Katherine. Characters like Damon and Stefan have all but said it. There’s also the times where they’ve hinted that Katherine deserved to get killed by Klaus all while trying to preserve Elena’s life. I think the Matt thing only (still) works if he’s still interested in Elena (which I question on the podcast for this episode). He definitely hasn’t compared Elena to her in a while.

          I’ve definitely read about Southern womanhood before and how that contrasts with the Black woman. This actually reminds me of something my one of my Fandom friends said which was that while Elena’s not racist, there’s so much privilege surrounding her some of it is informed by her skin color that it’s disturbing and she questions whether she should hold that against Elena sometimes. You have things like the Bonnie/Elena contrast where Bonnie’s family and Bonnie herself have repeated gotten hurt/used to keep Elena and her line safe. And they all in turn just ultimately walk over these women’s fallen bodies.

          I think Stefan’s love for Elena wouldn’t invite questions or comparisons to how he felt about Katherine if the show weren’t so adamant with beating us over the head with how Elena’s not Katherine. Add in Stefan’s selfishness when it comes to Elena and his hatred of Katherine, and the questions start pouring out.

          I honestly think the lack of outcry for Elena is because many people just do not care. Your friend is right that Elena gets objectified, but I think the thing is that Elena’s objectification is often at the expense of girls like Caroline and Bonnie. It actually happens in the premier. So the show seems to treat Elena better (everybody loves her and wants to help her), so people focus on Caroline and Bonnie. And there’s the fact that to some, whether they realize it or not, she’s just an object to make Damon or Stefan happy. The only reason anyone wants to be Elena is so they can get the attention bestowed upon her.

          • I forgot to mention that the Caroline fans also came up with a theory called the Good Boy Woobie. It is detailed in the Matt thread in TWOP. I don’t fully understand how a person can be both a “good boy” and a woobie but ok. I guess they are saying that the show expects to excuse his crappy behaviour towards Caroline because of his shitty life. That the writers expect us to pity him rather than hold him accountable for his actions.

            As for Elena’s objectification, idk if she has it that much better honestly. It might be one of those things that cuts both ways. The whole show is pretty bad when it comes to women now. Elena was almost the same as the moonstone last season. And had almost as much agency. I kinda see her as a shell now. Is there anything in her head other than Damon & Stefan?

            • I sometimes think some fans blow how much the writers care about Matt vs. Caroline out of proportion. For one, Matt wasn’t swimming in screen time last season. And the other thing is that when he does treat Caroline like crap, there’s never any mention of his crappy life. He just does it.

              Elena doesn’t have it better, but if you only give it a once over (like I once used to do) it seems she’s better off because her objectification seems so “positive” (people love her so much they want to die for her, dudes want to protect her, her life is in danger and this is used to show how “strong” she is, etc).

              I think the more seasons that air, the less Elena has in her head that has nothing to do with the brothers.

  7. I posted an edited version of the above blog entry on the TWOP ep thread. Just to warn you though, on forums, I am a CRAZY Biiiiaaaatch… sometimes. I had a couple of HORRIBLE fandom encounters early on and now I don’t care. Sorry!

    • Oh you’re that poster! I recognize the name because I went into the TVD in the Media Thread for the first time and saw that someone had recommended my podcast. And almost had a heart attack. Lol.

      • Oh no! Why did you almost have a heart attack? You don’t want people to hear your podcast?? At the time, I thought it was ok to pass along info on podcasts because they are so public. It didn’t occur to me that people might not want the publicity until the blogger I mentioned above told me that she didn’t want me to name her on TWOP because of all the hate/trouble it would bring. Sorry, Alta.

        OMG! I just realized that the hardcore Caroline fans found you because of me. LOL. The whole forum is full of them

        And yeah, I am “that” poster. Am I infamous?

        I was at home sick when I first started posting and I posted some incoherent stuff + got into it with some people. So after that, I was like, what is the point? I kinda trashed my TWOP reputation anyway. And I didn’t want to get rid of my username because I was getting to know some cool people on the forum despite all the crazy.

        • Meh, I am not sure why I always feel like I have to explain my TWOP postings. I think I am just not comfortable with being so confrontational/loud.

          Anyway, when are you going to put your podcast for the premier up?

        • Oh, don’t apologize! The reason for my heart attack was actually the same reason the poster gave for not wanting you to put her name. I kind of regard TWOP (ever since my Smallville days) as this sophisticated place where all the posters go. Lol. They never like the characters I like. But anyways there’s always long discussions and analyzation of scenes and stuff, and after following different forums on the site for so long, it was cool/weird/scary to see my stuff recommended over there. But please feel free to pimp the podcast anywhere. Lol. The blog tracks how people find the podcast, and some of them have definitely checked it out.

          Your name just stuck out because of the rec. Lol. But I think I know what you’re talking about when you say you got into trouble. This didn’t take place in the Bonnie thread, did it?

          Have the hardcore Caro fans said stuff about me? I’m really curious. I usually stop reading the episode threads after 4 pages. Especially if there’s Bonnie dissing. I mainly stick to the Bonnie thread. Funny enough, the first person to have a problem with what I said (and it was about Caroline and Elena) didn’t even come from TWOP. They responded at one of the sites where I leave links to the episodes.

          • The TVD forum is the least sophisticated forum on TWOP. I thought the place was super sophisticated too when I first started but it really isn’t. There are a few long time posters who have been at this for a while but other than that…. You can tell the quality of the posting has taken a drastic turn for the worse as the quality of the show has gone downhill. Try and find the philosophy thread, for example, (if you can) from the depths of the forum. Or read the first few pages of the Feminism thread. You will see that the postings from the first season were more thoughtful. I mean, I know next to nothing about this stuff but I realized that a lot of people there know about the same or even less. Last season, the whole place was flooded with Damon superfans (I suspect from vampire-diaries.net). All they did was squee about Damon and trash everyone else. Especially, Bonnie. It was like an intense propaganda campaign. These people should really work in politics. They also pushed out a lot of the less fangirly posters. Right now, there are a lot of Caroline superfans. Of course, that is less maddening but still. Generally speaking though, I think TWOP being sophisticated is a thing of the past. Although, it does sorta depend on the kind of show you are talking about. Shows like Mad Men still have some decent analysis.

            And yeah, I got into trouble in the Bonnie thread. It was a big mess. This started in the Race thread and then moved to the Bonnie thread. Pages and pages of the Bonnie thread were deleted by the Mods. A lot of the discussion that happened before this was deleted. After that, almost all the Bonnie fans left or shut up. Even though, the poster who started it was given a warning and said he/she would not do it again. This is probably why there isn’t a lot of defense of Bonnie.

            Look, you are way smarter than the vast majority of the people who post there, I think what happens there is that one or two strong personalities take over the discussion and sort of create a posse around them. This posse then swarms anyone who disagrees. Eventually, their opinion becomes the “right” opinion to have. So it seems like they are understanding something you are not. The extent to which this happens depends on the Mod you have. There is a reason that the TVD forum now has a super strict Mod. She just deleted the post I put up in the ep thread. I don’t know why. Probably because I said that I was quoting someone else. But I have seen that done before on the site. Or because I pmed her about a warning that I thought was unreasonable so she did it in retaliation. Who even knows with that place. I am surprised she hasn’t banned me again yet.

            Honestly, from what I have seen, blogs on LJ and other places have the sophisticated analysis.

            • Btw, I don’t really talk to a lot of Caro superfans. The only one I have pmed a lot with is the blogger I referenced above. There is another one but she barely posts anymore. I haven’t mentioned you to them. I probably won’t either because I don’t want to create drama. Besides, Idk how much I will be posting there in the future. I think I posted a lot recently because the Andie madness really got to me.

            • Oh yeah, even as I typed sophisticated I wanted to put quotes around it. I guess I just meant because the place is so big. I know that place never fails to depress me after an episode where Bonnie’s present. Eh.

              I remember that! I read the whole thing. Lol. And I was feeling frustrated just reading it.

              Thank you! It’s weird that it would get deleted. I used to see long quotes on the Smallville thread.

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