Episode 39: Know Thy Enemy

Episode 39

In this episode, I struggle to understand why Elena is so angry at John and Isobel. John should have been the one to watch Isobel die, it should have been Jeremy in that scene with John/Isobel/Elena, and it should have been Caroline going to the burial house with Bonnie/Jeremy instead of Damon.

Season 3 Promo pics: Source

Season 3 Promo pics Parody: Click

TV Promo: Click

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18 thoughts on “Episode 39: Know Thy Enemy

  1. What! Bananas and Kiwis? I gotta see this!

    This whole thing weird. The fruit, the pear … smh it does look horrible.

    V8 LOL! A coconut! LMAO!

    That TV promo. So it’s Elena and not Katherine? I’m so confused.

    This show and the way it treats Elena as a character comes at a really bad time when even Sookie Stackhouse does more than Elena Gilbert. And TVD is totally in the shadow of BtVS. I’ve said it before Joss Whedon’s writing is kinda gross but he’s better at it then TVD writers. *shrugs*

    That is a good question.

    “I don’t like twilight … but she does” lol

    I talk about this show, but mostly it’s bad. And my sister asks me why I’m watching this crap if it’s so bad and I tell her it’s because I’m caught.

    Nope I’d tell people not to watch it actually. But I’m happy about it because of the friends I’ve made. *poke*

    Elena is crying because she’s caught.

    Lol they are talking about Elena. Lol

    He cheered it though.

    Yes! If Bonnie, Jeremy, and Caroline did it then they could have come out with the damn plan in the following episode.

    Lol Why are Caroline and Elena friends?

    I love the bitterness in your voice when you talk about the writers messing up Bonnie’s character. Elena told Alaric … what a friend …

    What is this even? disaster-bad.
    I like what you’re saying about the petrovas.

    You know when a white man says something it’s from on high in this show. >_> *side eye*

    Elena could have stayed at Bonnie’s house but we don’t know where that is or if it exists and if that happened all the vampires would suddenly be invited over there … Bonnie’s not having that. I bet if she had been there, there would have been this look on her face or she would have been thinking “Oh goddess I hope they don‘t suggest my home.”

    Because Elena seems to have no room to talk.

    John apparently killed Elena’s other sister that they never talk about. Or Damon did that too her when he compelled her. WHAT!

    I hear you Alta. Smh

    Maddox hasn’t smiled a day in his life because he is owned by vampires …

    How did Damon get invited …

    Snort* that is weird. But …

    Uh-oh your Bamon roots are showing …

    I feel like Bonnie asked the witches to let Damon go.

    The witches keep the balance so I think they would be able to tell when someone crossed over and compulsion is a kind of magic that vampires use, so the witches probably sense that too.

    OMGoodness you are such a shipper. ;x Bonnie/Jeremy. *smirk*

    LOL argument #2.

    And all the could have been …

    I didn’t are about Buffy and Riley either. Lol

    LMAO yeah I’m still in denial. I wish Bonnie was the one that saw dead people. That was her curse/consequence. I wish she saw all the people who died because of the company she keeps. Mason, Shelia, Bree, Amy-Bradley, Vicky. I feel like if Bonnie was haunted by these ghosts … she would be harder and she would cut herself off from Elena and the Salvatore’s. I want that.

    Soap gate! LMAO

    “NO NO NOOOO!” LMAO

    I think it’s called The Last Dance because Klaus told Elena to save the last dance for him and probably for the song Last Dance … *shrugs*

    • Based on how the Salvatores are fawning over her, I’d say the tv spot is Elena, not Katherine. But the promos seem to be Katherine because I think they’re going for that whole vampire thing. Plus she’s wearing a big ring, and Katherine usually wears those in the pictures.

      And TVD is totally in the shadow of BtVS. I’ve said it before Joss Whedon’s writing is kinda gross but he’s better at it then TVD writers. *shrugs*

      That’s something I forgot to mention (I did this late last night). I wanted to say that had the words, “Everyone wants a piece of her,” been used on a Buffy poster, then you’d know the ending to that sentence would be, “And she will kill them all.” That sentence on a Buffy poster would be used to show her kickass-ness and her strength, not her desirability.

      Nope I’d tell people not to watch it actually. But I’m happy about it because of the friends I’ve made. *poke*

      I’d tell people not to bother watching it too, lol. This is the first Fandom where I’ve made friends that I regularly talk to. *Pokes back*

      Elena is crying because she’s caught.

      It’s like when Tyler confronted Caroline with her lie, and she immediately started to cry.

      I bet if she had been there, there would have been this look on her face or she would have been thinking “Oh goddess I hope they don‘t suggest my home.”

      Lol!

      Maddox hasn’t smiled a day in his life because he is owned by vampires …

      True.

      Uh-oh your Bamon roots are showing …

      Lol.

      I feel like Bonnie asked the witches to let Damon go.

      That works for me!!!! It’s officially how I will read this action of hers henceforth. She silently asked the witches and warlocks to let Damon go.

      Oh, is that the name of that song? Last Dance? Still a lame reason to name the entire episode that.

      • Well then that’s really disturbing watching two vampires handling a human girl. :\
        Do you think Katherine’s ever going to die?

        lol True about Buffy.

        I do try to get people to listen to the podcast. I told my cousin “watch this crap show and then listen to the brilliant podcast!” But that’s a bit much huh?

        Yeah because she hadn’t gotten the power yet so she couldn’t over ruled them. She might as well have asked politely. I love that she just looked at Damon first like: oh you knew that the burned? You can stand to burn a little.

        Sigh I wish The Servants of Nature was a real show. :[

        Oh, is that the name of that song? Last Dance? Still a lame reason to name the entire episode that.

        I agree. I mean they missed the last dance because they killed Bonnie. *shrugs* and whoops I know one of the songs was called “Last Kiss”

  2. I haven’t heard the whole podcast yet. I had to pause at part when you said it was *Damon* who called Bonnie a weapont. Oh What the hell?! After reading so much discussion on this topic online, I really thought it was Stefan. My memory of that scene literally changed. Damn. The power of fandom. I think this is symptomatic of how a lot of what Damon does is somehow blamed on Stefan. Stefan does his fair share of questionable acts. I find it funny that wtvr Damon does is also put on his shoulders. I suppose because he could put a stop to Damon but he does not? The same thing happened with the last Damon/Andie scene. A lot of the discussion was about how *Stefan* was to blame for not putting a stop to it. Which… fair enough but I expected a lot more discussion on Damon/Andie.

    • I know! I don’t know what the heck happened where I thought it was Stefan for so long. I’m thinking the original outrage was over the fact that Stefan toasted to Bonnie being a weapon and that somehow morphed to Stefan being the one to call her a weapon.

      • It’s still gross but that was metamorphosis.

        We were probably on a roll because Stefan had fallen so far from the Bonnie/Stefan relationship of S1.

        I was disillusioned when he told her to open up that damn tomb.

  3. – I think Caroline doing mundane things in her car bit was about product placement.. Did you ever watch those TVD car commercials that Candice did on the CW website? It think this moment was tied to that

    – Regarding the tv spot – I am not against S/M style promos. They could be sexy. I see their appeal. The issue for me is having this kind of promo within the context of this show. Elena is thrown around, kidnapped, disrespected and killed on the show with very little ability to fight it. She is the perpetual victim. She is not even aware enough to know all the ways she is being victimized. And she doesn’t seem to be into the whole danger aspect of her life. She seems beaten down by it all. Even in the promo, when Stefan pulls her hair, she doesn’t seem to be into it. She doesn’t smirk/smile at him or anything. She looked like a doll that the brothers were passing around. If they did this for Buffy/Spike in last two seasons of Buffy, it wouldn’t really bother me. Even Bonnie/Whoever. Everyone wants a piece of Bonnie too because of what she can do. But, at least, theoretically, she can do something about it. She is also the least victimized one of the three main girls on the show. I guess I don’t see manipulating/victimizing someone powerless/naive as sexy.

    Did you notice that Nina was wearing two different outfits? A gray one and a white one. She wore the gray one in the shots of her leaning against the tree with no one near her. Katherine?

    – Re: Poster – I can’t get over the pear either. I don’t know why. It bothers me the most. And idk why people are going to Greek mythology for the symbolism. Wouldn’t it make more sense for these things to have meanings specific to Christianity and/or America? I looked up what meanings the pomegranate has in Christianity. There was a bunch (immortality, fertility, etc) but the one I found interesting is that, according to some sources, when it is split open, it means suffering/martyrdom.

    – I would not try to promote this show to anyone but if I did, it would be more like the earlier commercial that had the theme of Vampires/Werewolves/Ghosts/Witches. I would try to lure more people in by selling the show as a real supernatural show and not just same lame love triangle shenanigans with fangs (which it is). The CW’s promo strategies keep failing but they keep doing the same stuff over and over again. Remember Catch VD? They think they are edgy but they are just gross and amateurish.

    – Re: witch house mission – It seems strangely appropriate that Damon and Jeremy were the ones who accompanied Bonnie. Damon has some link to the witches because of Emily. Also, he did have a relationship with (and kill) Bree. It doesn’t seem like Stefan ever got involved with witches until Grams and Bonnie. When I think of this scene, I also get the image of the Founder’s Day parade when everyone but Damon and Bonnie were on the floats. I can sort of picture Jeremy on or off the float but I can’t picture anyone else in a different position. I know it is weird and I don’t know why it came to my mind. My brain is a strange and mysterious place.

    If it wasn’t Damon, it would have made sense for Elena to go to the witch house because all of this is about her. However, at this point, it made sense for Damon to be Elena’s representative for this kind of thing (like how Stefan seems to be taking over some of her relationships) until they had their falling out at the end of The Last Dance.

    Damon/Bree and Bamon shipping got me thinking about the logistics of Vampire/Witch relationships. When Bonnie touched Stefan for the first time, she sensed death. I would think being with a vampire would be really tough for witches unless they are masochists. Can you imagine feeling death each time you and your lover touch?

    – I wish you had gone into the plot more because I have no idea what happened in the Isobel/Katherine/Maddox/Elena/Klaus portion of this episode. Why was Elena kidnapped and John attacked? Why kidnap Elena only to release her a couple of hours later? Why didn’t Maddox just go to grab Katherine immediately? Was Elena’s kidnapping all about Isobel wanting to have Elena with her in the end? If so, it had no emotional resonance because there was no build up to the Elena/Isobel relationship from Isobel’s side of things. Why did Maddox and Klaus even let her have that? As a favor? How did Maddox get Katherine into Alaric’s apartment? I will admit that this is when I stopped paying attention to the twists and turns of this show so all of this stuff might be obvious to others.

    – Re: Isobel’s zombified face – I thought that was a result of being under compulsion this entire time.

    – Isobel was so wasted. She was not used to further Elena’s development at all. Isobel died and they didn’t dwell on what that meant for Elena. Elena’s lack of development is really driving me crazy. Elena is a lead and the character through whose eyes we are supposed to experience this world. I think she is supposed to represent the intended audience. The other characters’ inconsistencies/lack of development is also maddening because it means they’re ridiculous as characters, but Elena’s ridiculousness means we’re also ridiculous as an audience.

    – Re: Matt – I understand his OTT reaction. Caroline is hanging out with his sister’s murderers and everyone he knew covered up her murder. However, I agree with you that it made no sense for Caroline to know about Vicki’s deaths. I also think that a part of him likes having someone to yell at. He seems to have a lot of buried anger/resentment.

    – Beremy were the best part of the episode. This is when I finally got into Beremy. The only couples I shipped on this show are Bonnie/Luka and Elijah/Jenna. All my ships on this show are AU ships I was bitter that Bonnie and Luka didn’t even get one kiss. Then Jeremy said that horrible line. Thankfully, he made up for it here by being awesome to Bonnie

    – Wouldn’t make sense for Damon to be jealous of Jeremy? Being loved/chosen is so important to Damon but Jeremy gets it effortlessly. If Bonnie left or died, he would just find love #4. Of course, Jeremy suffers because his girlfriends tend to be doomed but I don’t think Damon is deep enough to get that. I can see him fixating on the fact that Jeremy is chosen over and over again.

    – I don’t know why Elena is mad at John either. He tried to kill the Salvatores but Bonnie also tried to kill Damon. Is it because he tried to kill Stefan? I don’t know what she meant when she said that verything he touches falls apart. He was part of the group that got rid of the tomb vampires. That was a successful plan. What fell apart because of John? He seems like one of the more competent people on the show.

    – I tend to go on and on. I hope some of what I wrote made some sense

    – Are you trying to finish all the season two eps before the premier? Seems like a lot. Good luck, Alta

    • – I think Caroline doing mundane things in her car bit was about product placement.. Did you ever watch those TVD car commercials that Candice did on the CW website? It think this moment was tied to that

      Oh right! I forgot about that. Waste of film.

      I agree with everything you say about the promo. It doesn’t work because of how we know Elena gets treated on the show. If this show was about Katherine and she was in the promo spot, I might be better because we know she ultimately makes all the rules. But…I read one person’s reaction which was, “Stefan can pull my hair anytime!” Ugh.

      I didn’t notice that she wore two different dresses. Eh. This whole, “Is it Katherine or is it Elena” thing is starting to become lame simply because it’s not like it’s doing anything for Elena.

      Word to your entire complain about Elena’s development. How has she changed since season 1? i mean fundamental change, personality-wise. Nowadays, Bonnie is serious more than she smiles. Her world view has expanded. Caroline is a bit more confident than in season one. Elena….? Caroline is going to deal with her mother knowing about the supernatural/her. Elena could have had a similar story with Jenna, but they took that away from her with a quickness.

      They think they are edgy but they are just gross and amateurish.

      Yes. Every time the CW promotes this show, they go for the sex angle (I guess because it’s the CW). Along with Catch VD, there was also Got Wood? The main female protagonist is in danger of being sacrificed…and they’re promoting the show as sex, hook-ups, and break-ups.

      Can you imagine feeling death each time you and your lover touch?

      I keep thinking that a witch/warlocks always feels that the vamp is different. Like, it won’t be as intense as the initial touch, but I would think there would be some sort of tingle every time they touch, just as a reminder to the witch/warlock. But Bonnie slept next to Caroline during the slumber party; she danced with Damon. I don’t think the producers will establish that since…it would be something about the witches.

      Why didn’t Maddox just go to grab Katherine immediately?

      He needed to be sure she had the moonstone. Isobel told Katherine something like if she brings Klaus the doppelganger and the moonstone, Klaus will forgive her. So the kidnapping Elena part was part of Katherine’s plan. That’s why Isobel provided the distraction for her. But then Isobel revealed to Katherine that it’s not Elena and the moonstone that Klaus wanted, but Katherine in the moonstone. It’s all very convoluted because, like I said, Klaus should have just kidnapped Elena.

      How did Maddox get Katherine into Alaric’s apartment?

      I didn’t think about this, but it’s a total continuity error. I know Katherine couldn’t get out because Maddox put a seal up, but he shouldn’t have been able to get her in. Because later on, Damon will need Andie to get in the apartment or invite him in or something (which wouldn’t make sense because Andie doesn’t own the apartment). So I think he’ll need Andie to give vervain to Katherine. And then later on, Stefan’s going to walk into the apartment without an invitation. Ugh.

      – Re: Isobel’s zombified face – I thought that was a result of being under compulsion this entire time.

      Her face looked like that even in season 1. Lol.

      This is when I finally got into Beremy.

      I forgot to mention that their last scene made them reach OTP status for me. Even though I’m not too into the “OTP” label.

      I can see him fixating on the fact that Jeremy is chosen over and over again.

      I can’t, because I feel it matters to Damon who’s doing the choosing. It has to be someone he wants to be chosen by. So his father, Katherine, and Elena.

      – Are you trying to finish all the season two eps before the premier? Seems like a lot. Good luck, Alta

      Yep. That’s why I’m posting the episodes less than a week apart. Thanks!

  4. + I know people are doing their research but 1) I don’t think the writers or the CW are that smart, 2) I’m pretty sure apples have come to stand in for sin and Even and the apple even though she was probably eating a fig. Completely agree about the fruit not being something that fits the way the show is written. I wonder if the writers have any control over how the CW promotes the show because I would like to think there are limits to their ridiculousness.

    + Still haven’t watched the TV spot. Everything I’ve seen from it are in gif form and I am simultaneously annoyed, grossed out and amused. I think it would have been better if Elena had smiled because kinky is better than the worst sort of possessiveness and objectification. I feel like Elena is an object for the stories the writers want to tell about Damon and Stefan and other male vampires.

    I am constantly telling people not to watch the show. Before the mid-point of s2, I would tell people that it’s much better than the whole vampire craze might lead someone to believe. I can’t even say that anymore. I guess I’d tell people that it gives you the opportunity to choose your own adventure in your mind and daydream a better show.

    If you like sociopaths, this show is for you.

    + Guilt tears! The Vampire Diaries method of excusing the awful behavior of the characters. Of course it’s John’s fault. He’s a scapegoat. Easily blamed for the selfishness of others.

    + What are you talking about? Stefan and Damon are brothers? They’re going to walk off in the sunset and be brothers forever.

    + Yeah the last scene between Stefan and Damon is weird on Stefan’s part in terms of Paul’s acting. There are moments of intensity on his part that are just weird.

    + I thought that a lot of Stefan’s reactions were way too intense this season and somewhat inconsistent with his emotional restraint in season one. Same with Elena, who had stronger emotional reactions in season one. It’s weird.

    + Matt’s reaction to Caroline doesn’t work for me because we don’t get to watch him get to this point and his anger at her doesn’t make sense when it comes to what actually happened to Vicki. I tend to think that Zach made the wrong acting choices when it came to his scenes in this episode. The intensity didn’t work that well. Or he didn’t play it well. I don’t know. I think he should have played the scene with Sheriff Forbes with less blustering anger and more determination to get an answer. And the same in his scene with Caroline. I feel like he should have been tired and desperate but not angry, more apprehensive than disgusted (though both make sense). Which would have made his final scene with Sheriff Forbes resonate even more. He would have been coming from an outside perspective on the whole vampire thing, “I feel like she died” could have been given more meaning. And if te show hadn’t played on them being in love so much or had allowed them to become better friends, it would have worked even more.

    On that note, If I were a director, my actors would probably hate me.

    + She hates him because he tried to kill Stefan and Damon. He had to have been a good uncle in certain ways. The level of hate she shows to John annoys the hell out me especially after the finale.

    + Because Klaus is stupid. Or is merely interested in being flashy. What I don’t get is why Klaus didn’t have his own vampire and werewolf ready.

    + Stefan did use to respect witches/witchcraft/Bonnie and then the writers forgot about it and thus Stefan forgot about it and the show ruined one of my favorite potential relationships on the show. At the end of s1, I thought the writers were going to build on Stefan and Bonnie’s relationship, positively or at least give proper explanation to any devolution in regards to Stefan being a vampire and Bonnie being a witch and there being a natural unease between the two.

    + I had no idea people had such big issues with Jeremy and trying to pick apart what he does all the time.

    + People wondered why the witches had a problem with Damon? This fandom is ridiculous.

    + Bonnie was stunning in that scene. I’m ready to watch Bonnie deal with killing someone vampire/werewolf/etc. Not for the sake of seeing her deal with guilt, but actually being able to watch her deal with the true extent of her powers, of balance as a responsiblity.

    + Another great thing about the Bonnie/Jeremy dynamic is that Jeremy doesn’t want her power. He isn’t jealous of her power. He wants to be trusted to protect himself, but he’s not bitter about Bonnie being able to protect him unless it cuts into his autonomy.

    + I’m still in denial about Greta being dead. Still don’t want that to be the case.

    • I guess I’d tell people that it gives you the opportunity to choose your own adventure in your mind and daydream a better show.

      For real.

      + I thought that a lot of Stefan’s reactions were way too intense this season and somewhat inconsistent with his emotional restraint in season one. Same with Elena, who had stronger emotional reactions in season one. It’s weird.

      That’s true about Stefan. He’s now an open book whereas he was more reserved in season 1.

      I feel like he should have been tired and desperate but not angry,

      And also lost and dejected. I just realized this, but at no point did he look lost because of everything he’d just learned and because of what he’d just found out about his sister. He was in complete control of his emotions and always sure of what he was feeling.

      And if te show hadn’t played on them being in love so much or had allowed them to become better friends, it would have worked even more.

      Yeah ignoring the couple aspect, Matt acted like he’d never even been friends with Caroline. I’m pretty sure, while telling him everything, Caroline told him she became a vampire by being smothered with a pillow. *Sigh* Or maybe not. Who the hell knows with this show.

      What I don’t get is why Klaus didn’t have his own vampire and werewolf ready.

      Because, like you said, he’s stupid. This dude had how many years to come up with a werewolf and a vampire by himself while he waited for that doppelganger? Also, I expected him to have more of an entourage. Elijah said Klaus only trusted his inner circle. Wouldn’t that mean he had outer circles? Yet his posse consisted of a werewolf and a witch. And now his posse consists of Stefan. I don’t know who the dude is that was loading the truck, but we probably won’t see him…ever again.

      + People wondered why the witches had a problem with Damon? This fandom is ridiculous.

      Yep. And not just when the episode aired. As recently as July, someone in the Bonnie thread was wondering why the witches seem to have something against Damon.

      He isn’t jealous of her power. He wants to be trusted to protect himself, but he’s not bitter about Bonnie being able to protect him unless it cuts into his autonomy.

      Yes! Which is why I scratch my head when people said him running into the tomb was about his manhood.

      • Elijah said Klaus only trusted his inner circle.

        Unless we’re supposed to believe Elijah just doesn’t know what’s up with Klaus. Because he doesn’t seem to know. Everything he’s said about him, other than them being brothers, has proven…less than accurate. I’m starting to wonder why Klaus would be paranoid anyway. In s3, there’s going to be someone he’s running from, but unless that guy is a immortal vampire hunter with silver bullets that actually work and a hatchet, I don’t see what the big deal would be.

        And also lost and dejected. I just realized this, but at no point did he look lost because of everything he’d just learned and because of what he’d just found out about his sister. He was in complete control of his emotions and always sure of what he was feeling.

        It’s like the writers wanted to say they dealt with that loose end. Oh look at us, we referenced the second episode of the entire show and then failed to write a genuine emotion behind the discovery of truths because someone needed to be angry at Caroline again. Matt was angry and while it makes sense for him to come to that point there was nothing else there. The betrayal didn’t last. There no disappoint and the clear and wonderful surprise of him bringing up Vicki is immediately sacrificed for…nothing. A plan that means nothing in the end because Sheriff Forbes and Matt both come around in the end and move away from whatever plan they believed they had before. This is why I need to write fic, because the writers only seem to realize half of what they have story wise, in each and every character, even the Salvatores, who simply get to circle their stories and talk about it more often than not. They’re better off than the other characters, but they still function to work through a plot instead of developing.

        • Oh look at us, we referenced the second episode of the entire show and then failed to write a genuine emotion behind the discovery of truths because someone needed to be angry at Caroline again. Matt was angry and while it makes sense for him to come to that point there was nothing else there. The betrayal didn’t last. There no disappoint and the clear and wonderful surprise of him bringing up Vicki is immediately sacrificed for…nothing.

          Exactly! I couldn’t have said it better.

    • Elena, who had stronger emotional reactions in season one. It’s weird.

      compulsion is my guess.

      I’m ready to watch Bonnie deal with killing someone vampire/werewolf/etc. Not for the sake of seeing her deal with guilt, but actually being able to watch her deal with the true extent of her powers, of balance as a responsiblity.

      I think that’s too much to hope for.

      I’m still in denial about Greta being dead.
      she’s not dead! lalala!

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