Episode 30: Rose

Episode 30

In this episode, Stefan does not care about unleashing Katherine on the town again if it means finding Elena (he irritates the hell out of me in all but one of his scenes), I realize that after Elena Stefan is the one who benefits the most from the Bonnie/Elena friendship, Caroline’s a jerk in most of her scenes with Tyler (logical since she’s following a jerk’s orders), and Damon selfishly tells Elena that he can’t be selfish with her.

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19 thoughts on “Episode 30: Rose

  1. Oh crap that was this time. 😀 haha. Comicon. I don’t have a voice so I couldn’t talk about it if I wanted to and plus you’re right about there being nothing to talk about.

    Oh you haven’t done it yet. Kewl.

    I was wondering about the pod cast schedule.

    I have to tell you that I just did a bit of a re-watch to MMF (1.19) and I heard someone say that the founders day parties/events would last a month … so I hope that helps with the “time line”

    You’re so attracted to Jeremy. 😀

    UGH THIS SCENE WITH CAROLINE AND DAMON!

    It must be a sire/childe thing.

    Damon is talking about Tyler but describing himself in this scene. Smh.

    The eye thing! Something is in them. Ian must’ve been coming down with something in that scene.

    DAMON PUTS HIS HANDS ON HER! Caroline should have been triggered like a motherfucker! Sorry but, curses have to be said.

    I wish Caroline would have said “I understand” like get your Effing hands off me. When I first saw this I was so upset that he put his hands on her.

    OMG AMIEE. 😥

    Why do they have these scenes (with all the remorse and others morning for children’ death) if we aren’t supposed to care?

    Ew! Jenna is okay with the sex.

    Elena would have gotten home okay if Stefan would have made sure she got home.

    Ha adrenalin!

    I’m bad, because I love that Rose hit Elena. And I wanted her to do it because she WAS NOT LISTENING!

    Maybe this is the effects of Bonnie’s spells!

    So she got slapped! Lol

    “Tyler you’re not bad! I know this lemme hug you!” LMAO

    Elena ruins Katherine’s life. That’s how the doppelganger mojo works on this show.

    I love how hype you are about Stefan’s hypocrisy! 😀

    Ew the hostage situation. L

    It must be the spell that Elena feels not pain for a while. Lol I can’t. Nina/Elena why are you limping? I think I wanted Rose to hit Elena again.

    Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! D’=

    I’m looking at my reactions to the episodes from the watch alongs. I told Stefan to GTFO and leave Bonnie alone. smh

    Exactly! Why is Stefan … I started hating him here. Bring down the seal! WHY!

    His face! Lol he comes off like an ass. Stop going ahead, Alta!!

    Bonnie is a tool to Stefan. Stefan sees her at he might have seen her in his human days. THERE I SAID IT!

    I wish Bonnie would have gone to ask about Tyler and what happened at his house.

    I had a problem with Stefan asking Bonnie to open that tomb. I thought of Sheila when he asked her. I was horrified.

    You are giving Jeremy so much credit. But if he wasn’t there no one would ask.

    I bet Stefan just put a time limit on it to hurry Bonnie up because TIME’S A WASTIN’!

    I think Jeremy would feed himself to Vicki.

    Which-y WOOWOO!

    I HATE STEFAN FOR SAYING THAT!

    Maybe it was the sight of blood that freaks him out.

    Sheila Bennett, Mason, and Richard Lockwood died (were murdered) and left they children left at the mercy of these fiends.

    But the kids need to be in School Alta and so they can’t go ton road trips to find Elena.

    “The love to giving Caroline fight scenes with guys who are not Damon.” *dies*

    It’s Elena. I fucking tagline! I HATE IT!

    I don’t know why she has loyalty to Damon before the people she’s known for most of her life.

    Tyler calls her on lies. TYLER/BONNIE! 😥

    Sarcasm lol.

    What! Meta lines. Ugh!

    The questions are pointless! Stefan’s having memory problems to fill up the hour … Alta. ;P

    Stefan and Damon are incestuous. They should just cut out the “middle man” get together and stop messing up everyone else’s lives.

    So I guess the school day is over and that’s why Alaric is taking Jenna out.

    LOL you checked out Kat/Bonnie’s butt! *dies*

    Jeremy asked again! Awwww!

    I wonder what Kat says in these scenes.

    OMG ELENA SHUT THE HELL UP! HIT HER AGAIN ROSE!

    Everyone breaks into the Forbes house to get Caroline which is hilarious!

    So sick. This is old school Caroline. J

    Tyler knows what to do when he’s in danger because he’s had his ass whipped by his dad on a regular. Sad thought, but Tyler knows how to cower. :[

    Back to Elena her not knowing the roles in a hostage situation. Smh

    REALLY REALLY REALLY! Lol

    I’m tipping my head so hard at the “Bonnie Owes Them” bit.

    The music is beautiful!

    Does her father even see her anymore? Smh

    “Shut up.” *dying*

    Damon was worried about Stefan in MMF because Stefan was going to blow their cover.

    “OKAY? OWN IT!” lol like you’re talking to a dog.

    Elena has permanent Stockholm Syndrome.

    Ha! Rose why didn’t she know. Or catch that?

    They do that because Elena is irresistible!

    What business does Elijah have to take care of?
    LMAO “slaps his head off” *dying!*

    I would have fainted if I saw someone get their head cut off.

    Elena was compelled twice in this episode. I didn’t notice before.

    Plus Rose is older than the Salvatore’s.

    Was that a coat hanger?

    I laughed to hard when Damon thought Elena was running to him.

    The hug does nothing for me as well. Did Elena say “Thank You”?

    Bonnie bleeds for Elena … *sigh* I can’t!.

    I wish Tyler asked about how she came a vampire. “does it run in your family?” LOL

    Oh gross about Mason’s body fertilizing the ground! L :[

    Tyler is so alone. I want to say that Tyler has it worse because he is alone and he has not knowledge of what is going on. At least Bonnie had her powers (they kept her alive and useful) and then later she had the information when it wouldn’t be hidden from her anymore … Tyler is twisting in the wind. So sad.

    FOR ELENA ALTA. FOR ELENA!

    I hate this scene too. I hate it so much. Ugh! Why didn’t Damon just write in a journal. Damon is forcing himself on her! I hate this so much!

    Elena is a Doll. I bet she didn’t react to him because she remembered what he did to her brother …

    For all we know he could have made sweet love to her unmoving doll like body and then we were also compelled to forget about it. This is so gross!

    I can’t. That scene just left a bad taste in my body so It’s hard to move beyond it.

    • Sheila Bennett, Mason, and Richard Lockwood died (were murdered) and left they children left at the mercy of these fiends.

      The scariest part is that it leaves the Salvatores as the only people around to explain the situation, which gives them even more power. Except for Tyler, who actually has no one, since every other werewolf on the show has died at the hands of vampires. Which is a pretty valid reason for a grudge if I’ve ever heard one.

      • I feel like it’s strategic.They kill the adults and take the children, basically. It’s really sinister.

        The scariest part is that it leaves the Salvatore’s as the only people around to explain the situation …

        I’m sure they feel just fine about that. The Salvatore’s that is. Mason wasn’t having it and Sheila wasn’t having it and so they died. This is why I really want to have a strong united supernatural force opposing the vampires, because they are just running thing and it’s totally man.

        I can’t help but relate this to the status quo now. It’s so reflective to how our society “works” now that I can’t ignore it. It’s the elite vs. the oppressed. Divide/Concur, control all the information, cut the oppressed off from their roots/history/people/information, steal away their youth.

        Classic. it just makes me want to listen to Rage Against the Machine.

        One-sided stories for years and years and years …

        Believing all the lies that they’re telling ya … they say jump and you say “how high?”

        The Vampires have control over most everything. It’s disgusting and boring. I just want Bonnie, Tyler, Jeremy, and Matt to form some kind of solid resistance. I need it!

        • I just want Bonnie, Tyler, Jeremy, and Matt to form some kind of solid resistance. I need it!

          This would actually be my dream storyline for next season, which means its never going to happen, but story lines I want and need in my life.

      • The scariest part is that it leaves the Salvatores as the only people around to explain the situation, which gives them even more power.

        I’ve thought about this a lot when it comes to Bonnie, especially in late season 1/early season 2. In my head canon, one of the reasons she wasn’t so quick to join the Sals and didn’t ask for their opinion on what she should do with the device (like Fandom wanted her to) is that she felt vulnerable in front of them because they knew this game/this world/the rules, and she didn’t and she could not trust them to want to teach her like Sheila would have.

    • It must be a sire/childe thing.

      This show doesn’t seem to be going with that mythology.

      Caroline should have been triggered like a motherfucker!
      She should have been!

      Stefan sees her at he might have seen her in his human days. THERE I SAID IT!
      Oh snap!

      I wish Bonnie would have gone to ask about Tyler and what happened at his house.

      I watched the first half of Katerina for the next podcast and I thought of you when Caroline told Stefan she told Tyler she’s a vamp. She had told Tyler that no one can know about them. Well, I thought about what if Tyler had somehow told Bonnie/Bonnie found out. *Shrug*

      I think Jeremy would feed himself to Vicki.

      While in his druggie phase and had he run away with Vicky, I think he most definitely would have. I’m not too sure about slightlysane!Jeremy/Anna.

      But the kids need to be in School Alta and so they can’t go ton road trips to find Elena.

      Pfft. It was the end of the school day!

      I wonder what Kat says in these scenes.

      What do you mean?

      Tyler knows what to do when he’s in danger because he’s had his ass whipped by his dad on a regular. Sad thought, but Tyler knows how to cower. :[

      Oh damn, I didn’t even think of it like that.

      Elena has permanent Stockholm Syndrome.

      She really seems to.

      I think you’re right. That thing was a coat hanger.

      For all we know he could have made sweet love to her unmoving doll like body and then we were also compelled to forget about it. This is so gross!

      EWWWWW!!!!!

      • I wonder what Kat says in these scenes.

        What do you mean?

        I mean I wonder what Kat says when she’s doing Bonnie’s spells. Does she just mumble things? What does the writing tell her to do?

        I would love for Elena or Jeremy or Bonnie to find out what Damon did to Elena in her room (THOUGH IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN!). Elena had Damon take away Jeremy’s memory so how would she feel knowing Damon did the same for her “for her own good?” *eye roll*

        IT’s sad I really want Tyler/Bonnie. So badly! Not even shippy. I just want them to have scenes and relate to each others problems and maybe Tyler could find out about Mason … DRAMA!

        • Ohhhh. They probably just tell her to mumble.

          Ugh, it will never happen because the story is closed. It was all about Damon. Damon got to put out his feelings. So Elena will never find out because it was never about her. Gross. They just had her say she likes him just the way he is. There’s no way they’re going to have her find out he stole her memories.

  2. ~ So the most disturbing thing about what Julie Plec said at Comic Con is that it makes it clear that the writers only care about Elena in relation to Damon and that they only care about Damon’s actions in terms of how Elena feels about them. He’s worthy of her now because she decided that he was worthy just as he is, and while he has done some horrific things to Elena, she’s not the only person he’s hurt or tortured or damaged in some way. This is part of the reason I’m always so disturbed by Damon interacting with anyone who isn’t…Stefan really and Elena to a lesser extent, because while there is no basis or story or progression when it comes to Stefan or Elena looking past/forgiving Damon of his crimes, the show at least suggests that he has committed crimes against them. When it comes to everyone else, his actions are hand-waved or ignored. Which, forgiveness can’t be about earning the respect of the woman you love (it can be for Damon, but for the show to agree with that is gross).

    ~ Tyler is just Tyler at the moment. He’s not a werewolf. What is Damon’s head trauma?

    ~ Caroline isn’t having a flashback because she’s a vampire and team Salvatore and Damon’s past actions against her no longer matter.

    ~ Ugh! I can’t even with Damon in this scene. Sometimes, I think about what this show could be or could have been and I am so disappointed because the writers aren’t doing what they think they’re doing.

    ~ “I guess her body does not produce adrenaline” LOL. It would be cool to learn that Elena has something else going on with her other than being a doppelganger because there has to be an explanation for Elena’s poor life decisions.

    ~ The writing for this show is so convienent which makes everyone much dumber and oblivious than they have to be.

    ~ It is always such a turnaround when Damon is this voice of reason between the two of them.

    ~ “It’s Elena,” should be banned from the show. It should be banned from the show. They’re both obsessed with Elena to a sketch degree. I used to like Stefan a lot more, but that’s because I thought the show was going to be…I don’t know…better.

    Throwing people under the bus for the woman you love is romantic.

    ~ The writers don’t know that the characters existed for each other before the Salvatores came to town. Elena certainly doesn’t give anyone else the same sort of attention that she gives the Salvatores.

    ~ Klaus and Greta! I want to know so much more about her.

    ~ Stefan is stupid. He’s not all there, in the head, when it comes to Elena. Yes! He keeps Damon around because Damon will protect Elena and that’s all that matters to him now.

    ~ This show exists without a history, until it’s relevant to a gotcha moment and then it’s forgotten again.

    ~ Why does Stefan think Bonnie can’t protect herself? I don’t get it.

    ~ The writers need to fill in the spaces, where they don’t give other characters storylines or scenes, with pointless dialogue about things we already know.

    ~ Stefan and Damon are twisted. They are having the same argument/agreement about the same woman, essentially, from over a hundred years ago and we’re supposed to see a difference when there isn’t a difference. What actually makes it worse is we’re never going to find out about other people they were with because these people don’t exist, only the Petrovas.

    ~ Stefan killed a bunch of Elena’s ancestors. It was just a bad time. Stefan kills an entire town. It was just a bad time. Stefan lies about Elena looking exactly like Katherine and she runs a way for an episode and then everything is cool. Stefan is a vampire and doesn’t tell anyone…which I get, but that is a big thing. I understand Stefan keeping secrets (certain secrets…the whole “I killed a bunch of your ancestors and don’t understand why your uncle hates me” thing was convenient, but I’ll go into that more for “The Dinner Party”) he has over a century of them, but can his secrets have more of an effect than giving us some exposition.

    ~ She’s laughing at Tyler after refusing to tell him the truth, after suggesting she knew the truth, and after being a part of his uncle’s murder party.

    She kicked Damon across the hall though! She told him “you suck”! Everything is right in the world.

    ~ Do people mean the original sacrifice? Because meeting the original sacrifice would be different from meeting the original doppelganger (Katherine), because the doppelganger would be the first double, right? So we could (even though we don’t have to and probably shouldn’t because what would the point be) meet the original sacrifice, without there being a retcon. At least, not much of one.

    ~ What this show really needs is a “spell gone wrong” episode. You’ve already mentioned it, but the show really needs it. Something falls into the water. Everyone thinks that they are unicorns or they’re scared of blood or the color red and do jigs in the sand. I don’t know. Something.

    ~ I think we’ve learned about both Bonnie and Jeremy from their relationship and what they want from the changes that the whole vampire thing has wrought upon their lives.

    ~ He freaked out in the finale because the plot required it. Otherwise it doesn’t make any sense. One could argue that his tolerance was overwhelmed, but that is not what the finale argued. It was more of an “oh no, human blood! what do i do?” from the very beginning. The writers rely on us, as viewers to remember things like “The Dinner Party” and the blood!arc, instead of the fact that two episodes ago, Stefan drank close to the same amount, if not the same amount, of blood, in order to heal. It’s lazy. He needed to be shuttled off in order for Damon and Elena to feel guilty.

    ~ You know how I feel about the show essentially arguing that Stefan and Damon are the same person only one of them is good and the other is bad because it’s simple and it elevates Damon in a really gross “his kind of evil is amazing and Stefan can only ever hope to mimic him” way and vica-versa. It’s basic and lazy and erases any complexity.

    I sincerely hope that, when Stefan is doing his “rippah” best in s3, he owns it. Let him be happy about it or completely calm. All I want is to get some sense of him enjoying himself and a sign of why he would avoid becoming this and there is a way to do it without making him weep all over the place. I don’t mind vampires killing all willy nilly. They’re vampires. Sometimes, if well-constructed, I enjoy it. I do have a problem with being expected to sympathize with that conflict, as it happens. Showing and not telling, would work more. Getting some sense of why Stefan off of human blood would essentially hate himself on it, without watching him make excuses during the process.

    ~ The writers are way to invested in making Elena self-less and a lot of the time it comes across as either naive or stupid.

    ~ Does Elijah have the authority to grant pardons? Because Klaus wants Rose and Trevor dead, right? And Klaus and Elijah aren’t buddies…so what is even going on.

    ~ Damon thinking Elena was running to him was hilarious! It made no sense, but it was hilarious! That road-trip was pretty low-key despite the fact that they were going to save Elena.

    ~ Paul Wesley was pretty good in that scene where Stefan apologized to Damon.

    ~ Stefan is good. Elena is selfless. Damon is bad. Blah, blah, blah. Basic.

    ~ Elena has that effect, you know?

    ~ Oh this is the beginning of his “I need to kill people while I cry and strive towards redemption” phase.

    ~ Damon is the Decider!

    ~ I don’t understand why Elena did’t run away or tell him to go away or anything at all. Which suggests more disgusting things about compulsion than the show already had.

    • Didn’t they call Katherine the original Petrova?

      What this show really needs is a “spell gone wrong” episode. You’ve already mentioned it, but the show really needs it. Something falls into the water. Everyone thinks that they are unicorns or they’re scared of blood or the color red and do jigs in the sand. I don’t know. Something.

      I am all for a body swap episode! I need it Now!

      • I can’t remember if Katherine is meant to be the original Petrova. Klaus was just inventing the fake sun and moon curse when they found her, right? So she couldn’t have been the sacrifice that was used in the curse against him. Unless I’ve got the math wrong.

        Body swaps are my favorites. Or they could do a memory loss episode or a de-aging? As long as it is funny, I’m all for it.

      • Katherine was called the Original doppelganger. In Katerina, Katherine says Petrova blood was spilled to bind the curse. But she didn’t say it was her blood.

    • Yes, yes, yes to your first comment.

      ~ Tyler is just Tyler at the moment. He’s not a werewolf. What is Damon’s head trauma?

      They want to make it seem like he’s worried about something legit.

      Sometimes, I think about what this show could be or could have been and I am so disappointed because the writers aren’t doing what they think they’re doing.

      I know right?! This show could be so damn good. Thinking about what it could be and then tuning in every episode to watch it go downhill is so depressing.

      Throwing people under the bus for the woman you love is romantic.

      Ugh. People love that kind of dedication. Especially when it comes from vampires and it doesn’t matter if the vampire is a bad boy like Damon (DE fans) or a good guy like Stefan (SE fans).

      ~ The writers don’t know that the characters existed for each other before the Salvatores came to town. Elena certainly doesn’t give anyone else the same sort of attention that she gives the Salvatores.

      So damn sad. I roll my eyes when I read from JP that they’re going to “push all of the relationships to the next level” next season. I know she means the romantic relationships and the relationships having to do with the Salvatores. Ooo! I will speculate about this on the podcast even though my ideas will not see the light of the show.

      ~ This show exists without a history, until it’s relevant to a gotcha moment and then it’s forgotten again.

      Soooo true.

      I understand Stefan keeping secrets (certain secrets…the whole “I killed a bunch of your ancestors and don’t understand why your uncle hates me” thing was convenient, but I’ll go into that more for “The Dinner Party”) he has over a century of them, but can his secrets have more of an effect than giving us some exposition.

      Word.

      ~ Do people mean the original sacrifice? Because meeting the original sacrifice would be different from meeting the original doppelganger (Katherine), because the doppelganger would be the first double, right? So we could (even though we don’t have to and probably shouldn’t because what would the point be) meet the original sacrifice, without there being a retcon. At least, not much of one.

      Oh that’s a good point. The first Petrova whose blood was split and the first Petrova doppel are two different people. I just realized that the witches who cursed Klaus are most likely White simply because of the location.

      ~ What this show really needs is a “spell gone wrong” episode. You’ve already mentioned it, but the show really needs it. Something falls into the water. Everyone thinks that they are unicorns

      Lmao!

      ~ I think we’ve learned about both Bonnie and Jeremy from their relationship and what they want from the changes that the whole vampire thing has wrought upon their lives.

      I agree.

      I agree that Stefan freaked out that bad because the plot required it.

      I don’t mind vampires killing all willy nilly. They’re vampires. Sometimes, if well-constructed, I enjoy it. I do have a problem with being expected to sympathize with that conflict, as it happens.

      Exactly.

      ~ Does Elijah have the authority to grant pardons? Because Klaus wants Rose and Trevor dead, right? And Klaus and Elijah aren’t buddies…so what is even going on.

      I know right? Elijah granting them pardon ultimately means nothing because Klaus would still want them dead. I will touch on this a little on the next podcast, but basically it makes sense in this episode because this is before JP fell in love with Daniel Gillies, decided to keep him on the show because she likes him, and consequently made Elijah Klaus’ brother in order for him to have a link and stay on the show.

  3. “Rose” aka the episode introducing us to the mess that was the sacrifice SL. I wish I could erase it from my memory (except for the Jer/Bonnie scenes, that is).

    Just some brief thoughts on the Trio:
    – I think for Stefan the season ended with “Memory Lane”. That was the last episode where he seemed to have something resembling an arc, imho. After “ML”, he basically alternated between hugging Elena, being worried about Elena and being pissed that Elena wasn’t being protected enough, lol. – And the only reason why the writers are more interested in him in S3 is because they can now write him as Damon 2.0. This show loooves its bad boys. But I guess I’m stating the obvious here. 😉

    – Elena – I don’t even know. With the way she’s written, it is impossible to connect with this character. (And to think that the writers consider her a “strong female character,” ha.) But w/r/t her lack of reaction to Rose saying that her blood is needed for the sacrifice, isn’t it also a poor acting choice? This may be an unpopular opinion but when it comes to Elena I often feel like it’s a combination of both horrible writing and not-so-good acting choices. But maybe I’m too hard on Dobrev. It must be difficult to make sense of the writing for her character.

    – Damon… Just on brief thing about the D/E scene. I remember watching it for the first time and being so confused. Well, to be honest, I’m still confused, lol. What the show wants us, the audience, to take away from the scene is that Damon was being oh so selfless? We’re supposed to buy into this, right? But then, like you said, it is so glaringly obvious that Damon is acting utterly selfish. I mean, the guy is violating her memory. Yet, that’s not what the writers want us to think!? Ugh. It makes no sense to me. And it’s so frustrating.

    Oh, and by the way, I loved what you said about Caroline and the way she was behaving in this episode. It’s so true. She was being a jerk to Tyler – yet it is never really acknowledged in the TVD fandom.

    • Very true about the season ending for Stefan with Memory Lane. That’s the last time he did/went through something that wasn’t related to Elena, not completely anyways.

      It’s so ridiculous that this show looks at murderers and calls them bad boys. As if these murderers and that character in Grease are the same things. Oh, they’re all just bad boys. Ugh.

      I frequently think it’s a poor acting choice too. I don’t think Elena is supposed to have no reaction when she learned she’s about to be sacrificed. But when it comes to the last scene between Elena and Damon, I think that was a directing/writing choice. I really think they wrote Elena to just stand still on top of not giving her any lines. Because logically, she should’ve said “I don’t want to hear this” and walked out of the room if Damon refused to listen.

      It doesn’t make any sense! Lol. I’ve never watched a show so messed up in terms of morality. And that could have been a complement were the show…better.

      Not many of Caroline’s new fans seem to like holding her accountable. Or maybe it’s that they don’t care to.

  4. I am lurker over at fanforum. Found your podcast through the Bonnie thread. Your podcast is BRILLIANT. So many awesome observations. So many things I have missed. I love your insight into Caroline and Tyler. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who does not like them. The only feedback I have is to make these podcasts shorter. An hour is too long. A podcast about an episode shouldn’t be longer than the episode. How about a shorter podcast and an article that expands upon the podcast? I am sorry. I don’t mean to tell you what to do. I tried to get a friend of mine to listen and she could not get through it. I want more people to listen to this because you make so much sense. A quality that is missing from the writing and a lot of the fandom I am sorry to say.

    • Hi! Thank you for listening.

      You’re definitely not the only one who’s not too hot on Tyler/Caroline. It’s not even that I don’t like them. I just don’t find them that interesting.

      The podcasts didn’t used to be this long. Back in season 1 when the show was mostly good, we had less to complain about (there used to be 3 of us) so we didn’t spend too long talking. Since I’m usually ranting about many bad decisions the show/a character make, then it ends up being kind of long. Thanks for the suggestion though, and I’m actually going to try to do the show another way for an upcoming episode. I’ll see everyone likes it and if most people do, then I’ll just switch to that format. I’m not sure I want to do an episode plus something written though. Thanks again for the suggestion!

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